20 réponses à ce sujet

[Neogomar]

on my first playthrough right now, w/ miranda all lined up because i didn't do Tali's mission until the very end so i could bring Legion along for fun.  miranda says she remembers our chat and she'll come see me when things quiet down or something...does that mean after the suicide misison?  i read somewhere that you're supposed to know before the suicide mission whether or not you've completed a romance subplot.  i'm just very confused...when does the subplot come to fruition?

[A Blind Bandit]

As soon as you hit the Omega 4 Relay.

[Neogomar]

awesome, thanks, and just was messin around and found out i can still get tali as long as i tell miranda off...so i think i'll do that...tali's just much more awesome

[1490]

Yes, when she says that it's an indicator that you've "completed" her romance subplot. Unless you go up to her and tell her you're "not interested", she'll meet you in the elevator for a romantic foray when you choose to enter the omega 4 relay.



If you survive after beating the game, she'll keep saying the same thing if you go talk to her, but you can invite her up to the captain's quarters using your computer, and sit with her on the couch or lie with her on the bed.

[1490]

I won't lie: Miranda's pretty hot. However, being with Tali is much closer to what I would consider a real-life relationship, and is definitely most fulfilling of the man-Shep relationships.

[Neogomar]

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting...i just feel kind of cheap because i pretty much got tali to sleep w/ me after maybe 5-7 minutes worth of conversation, with hardly any breaks in between because i have no missions left to do and then revisit her after they're complete. it's almost like they're throwing themselves at you, and it's pretty hard to mess it up because you know the position of all the right things to say...i'm just saying it could stand to be a little harder...that's also what she said

[PandemicFear]

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting...i just feel kind of cheap because i pretty much got tali to sleep w/ me after maybe 5-7 minutes worth of conversation, with hardly any breaks in between because i have no missions left to do and then revisit her after they're complete. it's almost like they're throwing themselves at you, and it's pretty hard to mess it up because you know the position of all the right things to say...i'm just saying it could stand to be a little harder...that's also what she said

Well, apparently Tali's liked Shepard for a long time, Miranda wants him for his bod, and Jack likes sex... It's deeper than that, I know, but that's my simplest explanantion of why they throw themsevles Shepard's way. That, and since Garrus got scarred, women notice Shepard more.

[keegdarv1]

PandemicFear wrote...

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting...i just feel kind of cheap because i pretty much got tali to sleep w/ me after maybe 5-7 minutes worth of conversation, with hardly any breaks in between because i have no missions left to do and then revisit her after they're complete. it's almost like they're throwing themselves at you, and it's pretty hard to mess it up because you know the position of all the right things to say...i'm just saying it could stand to be a little harder...that's also what she said

Well, apparently Tali's liked Shepard for a long time, Miranda wants him for his bod, and Jack likes sex... It's deeper than that, I know, but that's my simplest explanantion of why they throw themsevles Shepard's way. That, and since Garrus got scarred, women notice Shepard more.

expect miranda worked on shepard for two years giving him two years of her life so getting feeling for someone after giving them two years of their life makes prefect sense and is more then "his bod"

and a pargon shepard may not have even had sex with jack so to say just "likes sex" sounds wrong to me

and i could say tali throws herself at shepard two it can be said about each and every romance just like each and ever romance can be looked at as each being in love with shepard

not being a fanboy of anyone at the time just using logic here so please lets not start a fanboy war on this topic too

[1490]

PandemicFear wrote...

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting...i just feel kind of cheap because i pretty much got tali to sleep w/ me after maybe 5-7 minutes worth of conversation, with hardly any breaks in between because i have no missions left to do and then revisit her after they're complete. it's almost like they're throwing themselves at you, and it's pretty hard to mess it up because you know the position of all the right things to say...i'm just saying it could stand to be a little harder...that's also what she said

Well, apparently Tali's liked Shepard for a long time, Miranda wants him for his bod, and Jack likes sex... It's deeper than that, I know, but that's my simplest explanantion of why they throw themsevles Shepard's way. That, and since Garrus got scarred, women notice Shepard more.

Yeah, if you played the first Mass Effect, you had several conversations with Tali and got to know a lot about her, so there was a lot more buildup for her romance than with the other two.  It's implied that Tali has really wanted Shep for a long time, but was afraid to show her feelings because she figured he wouldn't be interested, so it might seem kind of "accellerated" when she talks to you. 

There's also the factor of the suicide mission.  We as players know that our characters don't have to die, but from their perspective, they'll likely die, so this is the last person they could ever make love to: there's that "Hell, why not?" factor.   Also, for Tali, getting with Shep is a much more important, emotional connection than the other LIs due to her being stuck in the suit her entire life and desperately longing for intimacy, not just sex.  I think that's part of what made it more meaningful with Tali, because Miranda and Jack can screw anyone if they feel like it, but Tali could get very sick, and risks it anyway because she cares enough about Shep.

[1490]

keegdarv1 wrote...

expect miranda worked on shepard for two years giving him two years of her life so getting feeling for someone after giving them two years of their life makes prefect sense and is more then "his bod"

and a pargon shepard may not have even had sex with jack so to say just "likes sex" sounds wrong to me

and i could say tali throws herself at shepard two it can be said about each and every romance just like each and ever romance can be looked at as each being in love with shepard

not being a fanboy of anyone at the time just using logic here so please lets not start a fanboy war on this topic too

True.  There are good backstories and emotional connections with all the relationships.  I think the Tali relationship has an advantage over the other ones because it's rooted in the first game, but neither of the other ones are "shallow" (except if you do the renegade Jack romance, in which case she dumps you right after anyway).

[Ray Joel Oh]

Hopefully they'll deepen in the next game.

[Maera Imrov]

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting..

Small-ish spoilers ahead, just in case:




You and me both. I would *kill* to have Thane have had 'special' dialogue in the Collector Base, or for Shepard to have actually said something to him when she pulled him out of the rubble after the Reaper went boom. Or when he almost fell off the damn platform (in one of my playthroughs). That would have added a lot of flavor and depth to the romances.

Make it happen in ME3, Bioware. Please? I'll give you a cookie.

[Neogomar]

yeah, overall, i did like the relationships, and the arguement can certainly be made that they are deep in each of their own ways, except maybe for renegade shep w/ jack haha (i did that...very fun haha). for what they were, they were very good. for what the designers at bioware wanted in the romance subplots, they were perfect, especially tali's since it had been building a bit since the last game. i really wanted to get with her in ME1 vice Liara or Ashley, but that wasn't a possibility. so i'm really lookin forward to it all.



my only complaint, like before, is the relationships just don't feel like something that could happen in real life (assuming aliens were discovered and FTL travel haha). i do concede that i've never been on a suicide mission of any sort where i might be willing to throw caution to the wind to risk being with the one i had feelings for, even if being w/ them was purely physical at first, but if i had a babe for a captain, i might just do it, so i get it from that perspective too i guess. i just wish it could be more life like in the development of the relationships, like how interoffice romances start and stuff...working together is a perfect way to meet someone, and if they could pull that off really well in ME3 i'd be psyched

[1490]

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, overall, i did like the relationships, and the arguement can certainly be made that they are deep in each of their own ways, except maybe for renegade shep w/ jack haha (i did that...very fun haha). for what they were, they were very good. for what the designers at bioware wanted in the romance subplots, they were perfect, especially tali's since it had been building a bit since the last game. i really wanted to get with her in ME1 vice Liara or Ashley, but that wasn't a possibility. so i'm really lookin forward to it all.

my only complaint, like before, is the relationships just don't feel like something that could happen in real life (assuming aliens were discovered and FTL travel haha). i do concede that i've never been on a suicide mission of any sort where i might be willing to throw caution to the wind to risk being with the one i had feelings for, even if being w/ them was purely physical at first, but if i had a babe for a captain, i might just do it, so i get it from that perspective too i guess. i just wish it could be more life like in the development of the relationships, like how interoffice romances start and stuff...working together is a perfect way to meet someone, and if they could pull that off really well in ME3 i'd be psyched

I think tragedy or hardship has the effect of pulling people closer together.   Take the loyalty missions for instance: they all have a very strong emotional component to them that puts the character in a really vulnerable position.  For Miranda, it's having someone see her as a caring person than just an object.  For Tali, it's having a non-Quarian defend her when her "family" turns their backs on her.  For Jack, it's just having a person who cares about her feelings when she previously had no one.  It's very easy to become attracted to someone who is there for you in a time of great need.

True- even with that in mind, real relationships don't happen with three or four conversations consisting of several levels of dialogue. I think that's just the perceived acceleration of time that comes with most games, same with movies.  In reality, there would be many days or weeks that the Normandy is traveling between star systems, or that the crew is preparing for a mission.  Assumedly Shep and his crew would talk during these times and get to know each other much better.  However, it would be extremely tedious and boring to play the game out in real time, so those parts are cut out for the sake of keeping the action.  As cool as I think it would be to have even more characer interaction, people would probably start complaining about the game being "slow" or "boring" if Bioware did that.

[GuardianAngel470]

1490 wrote...

PandemicFear wrote...

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting...i just feel kind of cheap because i pretty much got tali to sleep w/ me after maybe 5-7 minutes worth of conversation, with hardly any breaks in between because i have no missions left to do and then revisit her after they're complete. it's almost like they're throwing themselves at you, and it's pretty hard to mess it up because you know the position of all the right things to say...i'm just saying it could stand to be a little harder...that's also what she said

Well, apparently Tali's liked Shepard for a long time, Miranda wants him for his bod, and Jack likes sex... It's deeper than that, I know, but that's my simplest explanantion of why they throw themsevles Shepard's way. That, and since Garrus got scarred, women notice Shepard more.

Yeah, if you played the first Mass Effect, you had several conversations with Tali and got to know a lot about her, so there was a lot more buildup for her romance than with the other two.  It's implied that Tali has really wanted Shep for a long time, but was afraid to show her feelings because she figured he wouldn't be interested, so it might seem kind of "accellerated" when she talks to you. 

There's also the factor of the suicide mission.  We as players know that our characters don't have to die, but from their perspective, they'll likely die, so this is the last person they could ever make love to: there's that "Hell, why not?" factor.   Also, for Tali, getting with Shep is a much more important, emotional connection than the other LIs due to her being stuck in the suit her entire life and desperately longing for intimacy, not just sex.  I think that's part of what made it more meaningful with Tali, because Miranda and Jack can screw anyone if they feel like it, but Tali could get very sick, and risks it anyway because she cares enough about Shep.

Screw your non-fanboyism! 

Seriously though, I did the Miranda and Tali subplots and I watched the Jack subplot and I feel that both the Jack and Tali subplots were about love, the Miranda subplot was about attraction.  She was attracted to shepard's natural strength and it made her question her own supremacy.  She was attracted to him because he was a strong person, but I didn't feel that there was a mutual love.  

Tali has been with shep for a while so that history fills in any blanks that exist out of a lack of dialog.  Just think about being friends with a girl all through childhood only to realize you have romantic feeling for her later in life.  The history between you makes dialog expressing love a nearly meaningless thing.  It is already known that you care and that she cares.

Jack seemed more like love only because the circumstances suggested it.  You prove your interest in her as a person and not a sex object (paragon) and she feels that you really care, which apparently frightens and soothes her.  The emotions are more prevalent in her romance, and as such I am inclined to believe that love was there.

[keegdarv1]

Neogomar wrote...

my only complaint, like before, is the relationships just don't feel like something that could happen in real life (assuming aliens were discovered and FTL travel haha). i do concede that i've never been on a suicide mission of any sort where i might be willing to throw caution to the wind to risk being with the one i had feelings for, even if being w/ them was purely physical at first, but if i had a babe for a captain, i might just do it, so i get it from that perspective too i guess. i just wish it could be more life like in the development of the relationships, like how interoffice romances start and stuff...working together is a perfect way to meet someone, and if they could pull that off really well in ME3 i'd be psyched

i dont agree, i think they all are something tha could happen in real life.

Jack is a scarred girl and if Shepard is willing to deal with the scars its seems a relationship starts to from and her walls break abit to him. Something Ive seems very real to life in dealing with the scars of people and helping them deal with it.

Tali the school gilr crush that if Shepard is willing to force taken advange of her thier can be a relationship their( sorry had to say it as i just think romance Tali is weird cause to me shes a little sister not a romance but i understand people that do it i dont agree but i get it) Schoolgirl are very common to RL and could easliy happen with someone you work with that may be younger and you help alot.

Miranda gives two years of her life to Shepard and i fine that a very easy way to get feeling for someone, most of all if your a women like Miranda and the impression i get from her character. When i saw gave to years i mean she learned everything possible she could without really being in Shepards head. I think could easly happen in RL

Ashley worked right next to Shepard the whole time and Shpeard was like one of the first people to see her for Ash not for her grandfather and thier last name, give her strengeth and believe in her and help her learn aliens arent all bad. Easily very real life

Liara sadly Liara fans im not the one to defend this realationship as i only did it once since seemed so weird to me and feel she only like Shepard for being touched but the same thing spend her life researching. but im sure it could be defended to sometihng very real life

So in the end I think any of these realationship could all happen in real life  

[1490]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

1490 wrote...

PandemicFear wrote...

Neogomar wrote...

yeah, i just set everything up w/ tali...these subplots are great, but it feels a little unfulfilling...i mean obviously the point of the game is the suicide mission, preparing everything you can to get to that point and survive, i just wish there could be more depth to these subplots...like if you brought a romantic interest w/ you on a quest, there could be little side conversations a/b the verandas around you or little dialogue they just say on a whim that's flirty or maybe if you do something they don't like they let you know that. that could limit your options i guess if you wanted to do both the mission one way and the subplot, but it could be interesting...i just feel kind of cheap because i pretty much got tali to sleep w/ me after maybe 5-7 minutes worth of conversation, with hardly any breaks in between because i have no missions left to do and then revisit her after they're complete. it's almost like they're throwing themselves at you, and it's pretty hard to mess it up because you know the position of all the right things to say...i'm just saying it could stand to be a little harder...that's also what she said

Well, apparently Tali's liked Shepard for a long time, Miranda wants him for his bod, and Jack likes sex... It's deeper than that, I know, but that's my simplest explanantion of why they throw themsevles Shepard's way. That, and since Garrus got scarred, women notice Shepard more.

Yeah, if you played the first Mass Effect, you had several conversations with Tali and got to know a lot about her, so there was a lot more buildup for her romance than with the other two.  It's implied that Tali has really wanted Shep for a long time, but was afraid to show her feelings because she figured he wouldn't be interested, so it might seem kind of "accellerated" when she talks to you. 

There's also the factor of the suicide mission.  We as players know that our characters don't have to die, but from their perspective, they'll likely die, so this is the last person they could ever make love to: there's that "Hell, why not?" factor.   Also, for Tali, getting with Shep is a much more important, emotional connection than the other LIs due to her being stuck in the suit her entire life and desperately longing for intimacy, not just sex.  I think that's part of what made it more meaningful with Tali, because Miranda and Jack can screw anyone if they feel like it, but Tali could get very sick, and risks it anyway because she cares enough about Shep.

Screw your non-fanboyism! 

Seriously though, I did the Miranda and Tali subplots and I watched the Jack subplot and I feel that both the Jack and Tali subplots were about love, the Miranda subplot was about attraction.  She was attracted to shepard's natural strength and it made her question her own supremacy.  She was attracted to him because he was a strong person, but I didn't feel that there was a mutual love.  

Tali has been with shep for a while so that history fills in any blanks that exist out of a lack of dialog.  Just think about being friends with a girl all through childhood only to realize you have romantic feeling for her later in life.  The history between you makes dialog expressing love a nearly meaningless thing.  It is already known that you care and that she cares.

Jack seemed more like love only because the circumstances suggested it.  You prove your interest in her as a person and not a sex object (paragon) and she feels that you really care, which apparently frightens and soothes her.  The emotions are more prevalent in her romance, and as such I am inclined to believe that love was there.

Haha, non-fanboyism??? I thought that showing support for Mass Effect romances would, in effect, make me a fanboy.  I liked the ME 2 romances, and although people bash on the ME 1 romances, I actually liked those too.  Personally, I liked the Tali romance the best simply because she's the type of person I myself am more attracted to in real life, but I think all the characters have their virtues and the voice actors did a great job bringing the characters to life.

[keegdarv1]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

[
Screw your non-fanboyism! 

Seriously though, I did the Miranda and Tali subplots and I watched the Jack subplot and I feel that both the Jack and Tali subplots were about love, the Miranda subplot was about attraction.  She was attracted to shepard's natural strength and it made her question her own supremacy.  She was attracted to him because he was a strong person, but I didn't feel that there was a mutual love.  

Tali has been with shep for a while so that history fills in any blanks that exist out of a lack of dialog.  Just think about being friends with a girl all through childhood only to realize you have romantic feeling for her later in life.  The history between you makes dialog expressing love a nearly meaningless thing.  It is already known that you care and that she cares.

Jack seemed more like love only because the circumstances suggested it.  You prove your interest in her as a person and not a sex object (paragon) and she feels that you really care, which apparently frightens and soothes her.  The emotions are more prevalent in her romance, and as such I am inclined to believe that love was there.

Miranda wouldnt do a relationship without feeling equal or mutual love, i take Jacob as a exsample of this as its Jacob bring up Miranda talking about her a few times and when its says it got :alittle close, then really far" it take that as Miranda never really had any true feeling for him wheile he did "sour grapes" as you say "she was attracted to him because hes a strong person" strong enough to acutaly be seen as a equal. her character is a strong women someone that doesnt need Shepard in her life but going foward wants Shperad in her life. I could defend this to high hell if i need to but im not in the mood to sound like a fan boy, hehe just next time should say

"i think Miranda's suplot was about attraction" not "Miranda suplot was about attraction"

[1490]

keegdarv1 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

[
Screw your non-fanboyism! 

Seriously though, I did the Miranda and Tali subplots and I watched the Jack subplot and I feel that both the Jack and Tali subplots were about love, the Miranda subplot was about attraction.  She was attracted to shepard's natural strength and it made her question her own supremacy.  She was attracted to him because he was a strong person, but I didn't feel that there was a mutual love.  

Tali has been with shep for a while so that history fills in any blanks that exist out of a lack of dialog.  Just think about being friends with a girl all through childhood only to realize you have romantic feeling for her later in life.  The history between you makes dialog expressing love a nearly meaningless thing.  It is already known that you care and that she cares.

Jack seemed more like love only because the circumstances suggested it.  You prove your interest in her as a person and not a sex object (paragon) and she feels that you really care, which apparently frightens and soothes her.  The emotions are more prevalent in her romance, and as such I am inclined to believe that love was there.

Miranda wouldnt do a relationship without feeling equal or mutual love, i take Jacob as a exsample of this as its Jacob bring up Miranda talking about her a few times and when its says it got :alittle close, then really far" it take that as Miranda never really had any true feeling for him wheile he did "sour grapes" as you say "she was attracted to him because hes a strong person" strong enough to acutaly be seen as a equal. her character is a strong women someone that doesnt need Shepard in her life but going foward wants Shperad in her life. I could defend this to high hell if i need to but im not in the mood to sound like a fan boy, hehe just next time should say

"i think Miranda's suplot was about attraction" not "Miranda suplot was about attraction"

Actually, why I think the Miranda romance plot is interesting is because it leaves room for interpretation.  It's mostly up to the viewer to decide what Miranda sees in Shepard, because she's not entirely clear on it.  She might be in it for a fling, so if that's what you'd like to believe you can.  However, if you want to believe she has deeper feelings for Shep, you can do that to if it satisfies you.  Mystery = attraction.

[Neogomar]

yeah, i guess when i said it didn't seem like they could happen in real life, it was more referring to the accelerated nature of it all vice the actual possibility of the situation producing those feelings...it's the movie effect that 1490 mentioned above. i guess ya know, several multi-tiered dialogues can't bring the complete feeling to the player, while for the character it's probably very real, especially given all the time they would have to interact during travel etc that player's don't want to deal with. maybe a solution to it all could be more dialogue w/ those characters specifically defined as romance subplots for your shepard. maybe there could be new dialogue options w/ those characters that are automatically triggered after missions you go on, each and every one, not just after a couple a new dialogue option comes up. ya know, expand the depth of discussion and participation with those characters. and they've done it before, Tali was super deep in ME1, but not nearly as deep in ME2, w/ the exception of her loyalty mission which did open up a lot of information a/b her life, but didn't actually involve conversing with her specifically. i don't know, i guess i'm just one for pushing for things to move to the next level and closer to reality, especially in RPGs where playing the game is supposed to let you live out someone else's life as if it were your own. that's just my opinion though. i do agree that bioware did a great job w/ the relationships this time around, and i can't wait to see what they pull off for ME3

[Ray Joel Oh]

Yeah, even though having loyalty missions was really great, I missed having more casual conversation. With or without romantic attachment.