I'm sure just like ME 2's suicide mission there will probably be a chance to have them all take the joining and survive. After all lets face it if your tasked with rebuilding the Ferelden Grey Warden order then you might as well start out recruiting big as technically only 2 Grey Warden's remains (possibly 3 depending on choices made in Origins).
The Joining in Awakening
Débuté par
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
, mars 12 2010 05:48
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#77
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:04
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
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Yeah, that makes perfect sense. The Joining ritual will be just like Mass Effect 2's suicide mission. . I'm sure if Duncan had hugged Daveth and helped him with his daddy issues before the Joining, he would have survived. Pshh.
/end sarcasm
/end sarcasm
#78
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:09
Spitz6860
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in video games it has been proven again and again that players likes to have total control, especially in a game where your companions play a very important role, having a set character dying no matter what you do or having them randomly dying will ****** a lot of people off, Bioware understands that, that's why they have been drilling the suicide mission idea into you since ME2 was announced
#79
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:20
Alikain
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Well am putting all but one through the joining. i will not put Oghren to the joing because he name his child after my character so i want him to live.
#80
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:21
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
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There are set deaths. People need to come to terms with it. Jory and Daveth both died - it has a more emotional impact that way.
The choices the player is presented with are:
Put Companion (A) through Joining? Yes/No
Put Companion (
through Joining? Yes/No
Put Companion © through Joining? Yes/No
The player has absolutely no control over whether or not someone survives ingesting poison; however, the player has absolute control over whether or not to make someone ingest poison.
Understand?
The choices the player is presented with are:
Put Companion (A) through Joining? Yes/No
Put Companion (
through Joining? Yes/NoPut Companion © through Joining? Yes/No
The player has absolutely no control over whether or not someone survives ingesting poison; however, the player has absolute control over whether or not to make someone ingest poison.
Understand?
Modifié par Jack Anvil, 13 mars 2010 - 10:23 .
#81
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:32
Wowlock
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Although it sounds really cool , I dont want to lose any of my companions too. High approval system seems good.
But if there is no benefit from doing the joining ( dunno some kind of a bonus like +10 damage against darkspawn ) then I dont try it if not forced.
But if there is no benefit from doing the joining ( dunno some kind of a bonus like +10 damage against darkspawn ) then I dont try it if not forced.
#82
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:40
bd223437
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I'm hopping on the approval likely drives survival bandwagon. I suspect someone will pull a Jory if they don't approve enough. Otherwise, I bet Mhairi dies since Justice appears to be weapon and shield and Mhairi is also weapon and shield and Justice is already dead.
#83
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:45
Spitz6860
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Jack Anvil wrote...
There are set deaths. People need to come to terms with it. Jory and Daveth both died - it has a more emotional impact that way.
The choices the player is presented with are:
Put Companion (A) through Joining? Yes/No
Put Companion (
Put Companion © through Joining? Yes/No
The player has absolutely no control over whether or not someone survives ingesting poison; however, the player has absolute control over whether or not to make someone ingest poison.
Understand?
that would just result in a bunch of reloads and people figuring out who'd die and who wouldn't and put only those who they know would survive through the joining, wouldn't it?
#84
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 10:55
PCousland
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I think Jack is forgetting it's a game and even the suicide mission in ME2 outcomes don't make perfect sense.
As for the lame Jorey and Daveth excuse I felt no pity or remorse for them. They were worthless even for what little time you had them. Jorey especially deserved the fate he got for being the spineless whimp he was.
While characters may have a set death if you know when and how to make use of them it can be avoided just as how you can keep every companion in ME 2 to survive the suicide mission. (Which by name alone would mean that reguardless some of your teammates should have perished)
As for the lame Jorey and Daveth excuse I felt no pity or remorse for them. They were worthless even for what little time you had them. Jorey especially deserved the fate he got for being the spineless whimp he was.
While characters may have a set death if you know when and how to make use of them it can be avoided just as how you can keep every companion in ME 2 to survive the suicide mission. (Which by name alone would mean that reguardless some of your teammates should have perished)
#85
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 11:02
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
Guest_Jack Anvil_*
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Spitz6860 wrote...
Jack Anvil wrote...
There are set deaths. People need to come to terms with it. Jory and Daveth both died - it has a more emotional impact that way.
The choices the player is presented with are:
Put Companion (A) through Joining? Yes/No
Put Companion (
Put Companion © through Joining? Yes/No
The player has absolutely no control over whether or not someone survives ingesting poison; however, the player has absolute control over whether or not to make someone ingest poison.
Understand?
that would just result in a bunch of reloads and people figuring out who'd die and who wouldn't and put only those who they know would survive through the joining, wouldn't it?
Not necessarily. I would put all of my companions through the Joining, and whoever dies, dies. If you reload, you're cheating yourself, really.
It is a roleplaying game, and for those who actually roleplay, they will let people die if it suits their character's story.
#86
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 11:06
Shepard Lives
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Wait, why would I want to put anyone through the Joining?
There is no Archdemon to slay. And since the only other feat one gets out of the Joining is the ability to sense darkspawn, and our PC already has that, I fail to see why we should put the lives of powerful companions in danger by making them Grey Wardens. Of course, we need to rebuild the order, but... it feels kinda forced.
I mean, I don't want DA:A to be a game that consists of "Hey, this guy named X is super strong, let's make him a Warden." and then "Oh look, he's dead. Pity. Next one!"
Knowing that those people's lives are actually in your very hands would certainly make the game very emotionally powerful, though.
In the end, I think that the only thing we can do is pray that Bioware has found a clever way to handle this Joining gig.
There is no Archdemon to slay. And since the only other feat one gets out of the Joining is the ability to sense darkspawn, and our PC already has that, I fail to see why we should put the lives of powerful companions in danger by making them Grey Wardens. Of course, we need to rebuild the order, but... it feels kinda forced.
I mean, I don't want DA:A to be a game that consists of "Hey, this guy named X is super strong, let's make him a Warden." and then "Oh look, he's dead. Pity. Next one!"
Knowing that those people's lives are actually in your very hands would certainly make the game very emotionally powerful, though.
In the end, I think that the only thing we can do is pray that Bioware has found a clever way to handle this Joining gig.
#87
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 11:13
Count Viceroy
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The warden numbers in ferelden needs to be replenished, thats sort of the whole point of rebuilding the wardens. Putting your companions through the joining makes total sense. Especially since the taint shortens already dangerously short livespans given their occupation which means have to be constantly replenishing your numbers. The darkspawn certainly won't hold back.
Modifié par Count Viceroy, 13 mars 2010 - 11:18 .
#88
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 11:34
Leon Elsa
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I hope to the flying spaghetti monster that the outcomes are randomized. That would rock.
#89
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 11:47
ankuu
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I don't think they are that random...Just think of it, if another sequel or expansion would take decisions into consideration, the ones from origins+ from awakening will be hard to import....they couldn't import the ones from origins alone!
#90
Posté 13 mars 2010 - 11:56
Super_Fr33k
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As has been noted, surviving the Joining seems to have little to do with physical strength, courage or conviction. That is not to say BW will ignore that and introduce an approval-based survival rate, but it will be illogical all the same...
But I think people are too fixated on ME2. Remember this guy named Avernus?
Yeah, he was a DLC character, but he made some interesting points. The current Joining ritual reflects a poor understanding of the darkspawn and a very crude method of introducing the taint. It seems to me, with all the advanced darkspawn and powerful mages we're going to encounter, that it may be possible to better understand and modify the ritual. I think this is the way to go for people who want to improve party members' chances.
This offers a lot of interesting options, imo. Like Avernus, you should have to take immoral actions to modify the ritual, and justify killing some to save others. Modifying the ritual, and ultimately drawing more strength from the taint, creates interesting implications as well-- are Grey Wardens becoming too much like darkspawn? Can they wipe out darkspawn completely if they become reliant on them for power?
So let's think outside the ME2 box, and hope BW has done the same. Though I don't see how DA wouldn't benefit from sexy blue chicks...
But I think people are too fixated on ME2. Remember this guy named Avernus?
Yeah, he was a DLC character, but he made some interesting points. The current Joining ritual reflects a poor understanding of the darkspawn and a very crude method of introducing the taint. It seems to me, with all the advanced darkspawn and powerful mages we're going to encounter, that it may be possible to better understand and modify the ritual. I think this is the way to go for people who want to improve party members' chances.
This offers a lot of interesting options, imo. Like Avernus, you should have to take immoral actions to modify the ritual, and justify killing some to save others. Modifying the ritual, and ultimately drawing more strength from the taint, creates interesting implications as well-- are Grey Wardens becoming too much like darkspawn? Can they wipe out darkspawn completely if they become reliant on them for power?
So let's think outside the ME2 box, and hope BW has done the same. Though I don't see how DA wouldn't benefit from sexy blue chicks...
#91
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 09:40
Shepard Lives
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Super_Fr33k wrote...
But I think people are too fixated on ME2. Remember this guy named Avernus?
Sweet sassy molassy, I totally forgot about him. Do you think DLC decisions will be imported? I mean, it would be cool if we got some advanced bonuses (Joining upgrades, as you suggested) for letting him continue his research.
Then again, there are players (heck, maybe the majority of them) that do not have that DLC, so I'm pretty sure BW won't make the Avernus decision anything plot-heavy.
#92
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 09:51
biomag
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I am 100% with Jack. I will be pissed off if companions survive just because I helped them resolve their personal matters before drinking the potion. That would simply break the lore without sense.
Next, I don't give a damn about the effects on the gameplay, this is a roleplaygame. Background says that GW gain skills that help them defeat darkspawn and they won't die because of the taint in the short run (think about the dalish origin - you had to pass through the joining or your character would have died). I know the companions in Origins survived, but backgroundwise they just had luck. They could have died, but because of the gameplay the devs couldn't let them without getting a riot from customers.
No blight - no wardens? Yeah, like most countries disband their whole army until the next war starts... for sure there is no need for a big warden presence, but right now there are only 2-3 (Avernus +1) wardens in Ferelden. So when the next blight starts, each of them will recruit a few hundred soldiers/mages/rogues and put them through the joining before the darkspawn overrun them all? I guess not.
I really hope that the player can't effect who survives when put through the joining. Those who want to cheat themselves by not forcing them all, just those who make it, go on cheat yourself and enjoy it - I say people are going to miss an important emotional part of the game. Its easy to blame Duncan for his actions when oneself doesn't have the guts to do what is needed. If the Ferelden wardens fail (something Bioware won't dare to script anyway because to many would whine about failing the task), the others will jump in, so its easy to say "just those who really want and know the risks of the joining".
I stick with my decision, those new companions won't have it in their hands to decide for themselves. This doesn't mean I will enjoy the task, but we all have duties to fulfill.
Next, I don't give a damn about the effects on the gameplay, this is a roleplaygame. Background says that GW gain skills that help them defeat darkspawn and they won't die because of the taint in the short run (think about the dalish origin - you had to pass through the joining or your character would have died). I know the companions in Origins survived, but backgroundwise they just had luck. They could have died, but because of the gameplay the devs couldn't let them without getting a riot from customers.
No blight - no wardens? Yeah, like most countries disband their whole army until the next war starts... for sure there is no need for a big warden presence, but right now there are only 2-3 (Avernus +1) wardens in Ferelden. So when the next blight starts, each of them will recruit a few hundred soldiers/mages/rogues and put them through the joining before the darkspawn overrun them all? I guess not.
I really hope that the player can't effect who survives when put through the joining. Those who want to cheat themselves by not forcing them all, just those who make it, go on cheat yourself and enjoy it - I say people are going to miss an important emotional part of the game. Its easy to blame Duncan for his actions when oneself doesn't have the guts to do what is needed. If the Ferelden wardens fail (something Bioware won't dare to script anyway because to many would whine about failing the task), the others will jump in, so its easy to say "just those who really want and know the risks of the joining".
I stick with my decision, those new companions won't have it in their hands to decide for themselves. This doesn't mean I will enjoy the task, but we all have duties to fulfill.
#93
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 10:00
Default137
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My guess?
Certain people are set to die, and to make it "fair" its going to be one of the Rogues, one of the Warriors, and one of the Mages who dies, leaving us with two Warriors, a Rogue, and a Mage.
With Warriors, Mhari will probably die, Oghren is a dwarf, and he has taken far worse stuff then Darkspawn Blood, meanwhile Mhari is naive, and built for us to like her, Bioware is setting her up to be a tragic character, and I could see her really wanting to be a Warden, and forcing you to kill her, or deal with her feeling neglected for not being allowed to even try.
For the Rogues, its kind of a toss-up, Howe has had Wardens in his family prior, and seems like the kind of character that can survive anything, it would also be greatly ironic for him to end up being a Warden, however Sigrun is also a survivor, and a Dwarf, so she may also have a chance, in the end, I'd have to say Howe will be the survivor of this pairing, as Bioware loves irony.
And for Mages? Not sure, I barely know anything about either Mage, other then that Anders is an apostate, and Velanna who hates everyone and is Dalish, I'm really not sure how this would go down, Anders is a Mage Mage ( as opposed to a Keeper Mage, Anders did learn from the Circle, while Velanna seems to have learned from previous Keepers, which makes me feel her magic is less stable ), and might gain some small benefit to survival from this, he also seems to be a fairly important character to the story, and may end up being another one of Marics children, which would basically shoehorn him in to surviving, Velanna is a Dalish who hates humans, she really doesn't seem to have much going for her so far, so I'm not exactly sure what her chances really are.
It could also be based on who you bring with you in terms of main party, Gaider has said that conversation wheels will be built more like Sten in DA:O, where to really learn about the character, you have to bring them with you to various zones and talk to them about what they say there, this could increase the chances of survival, as I doubt Bioware would want to kill off a players "main group" if you will.
Certain people are set to die, and to make it "fair" its going to be one of the Rogues, one of the Warriors, and one of the Mages who dies, leaving us with two Warriors, a Rogue, and a Mage.
With Warriors, Mhari will probably die, Oghren is a dwarf, and he has taken far worse stuff then Darkspawn Blood, meanwhile Mhari is naive, and built for us to like her, Bioware is setting her up to be a tragic character, and I could see her really wanting to be a Warden, and forcing you to kill her, or deal with her feeling neglected for not being allowed to even try.
For the Rogues, its kind of a toss-up, Howe has had Wardens in his family prior, and seems like the kind of character that can survive anything, it would also be greatly ironic for him to end up being a Warden, however Sigrun is also a survivor, and a Dwarf, so she may also have a chance, in the end, I'd have to say Howe will be the survivor of this pairing, as Bioware loves irony.
And for Mages? Not sure, I barely know anything about either Mage, other then that Anders is an apostate, and Velanna who hates everyone and is Dalish, I'm really not sure how this would go down, Anders is a Mage Mage ( as opposed to a Keeper Mage, Anders did learn from the Circle, while Velanna seems to have learned from previous Keepers, which makes me feel her magic is less stable ), and might gain some small benefit to survival from this, he also seems to be a fairly important character to the story, and may end up being another one of Marics children, which would basically shoehorn him in to surviving, Velanna is a Dalish who hates humans, she really doesn't seem to have much going for her so far, so I'm not exactly sure what her chances really are.
It could also be based on who you bring with you in terms of main party, Gaider has said that conversation wheels will be built more like Sten in DA:O, where to really learn about the character, you have to bring them with you to various zones and talk to them about what they say there, this could increase the chances of survival, as I doubt Bioware would want to kill off a players "main group" if you will.
#94
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 10:34
Vim
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Default137 wrote...
My guess?
Certain people are set to die, and to make it "fair" its going to be one of the Rogues, one of the Warriors, and one of the Mages who dies, leaving us with two Warriors, a Rogue, and a Mage.
With Warriors, Mhari will probably die, Oghren is a dwarf, and he has taken far worse stuff then Darkspawn Blood, meanwhile Mhari is naive, and built for us to like her, Bioware is setting her up to be a tragic character, and I could see her really wanting to be a Warden, and forcing you to kill her, or deal with her feeling neglected for not being allowed to even try.
Could you imagine if they had made her romanceable and then she died on us during the joining ritual? It would be like Sweet Iona, but worse because we'd have known her for longer, expected her to remain with us, and grown more attached. That would have been quite the emotional blow to the gut.
I'm kind of with those who are reluctant to force people to go through with the joining now that the blight is over. (I'd have forced Zevran & Sten in a heartbeat however in Origins had I the option.) And besides, if too many people die in the joining ritual their family and friends will start accusing the wardens of murder. That makes for very bad PR.
#95
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 11:04
Vim
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Super_Fr33k wrote...
So let's think outside the ME2 box, and hope BW has done the same. Though I don't see how DA wouldn't benefit from sexy blue chicks...
Oh I don't know about that...more sexy chicks, whether blue or any other color, might mean higher sales which might mean they would have more resources to dedicate to expansions which would mean fewer plot holes & botched transitions which would mean fewer upset fans & products worth their price and thus even higher sales which would result in even more money to develop expansions without gaping plot holes which would mean even more sales....etc...etc...etc...
Modifié par Vim, 14 mars 2010 - 11:07 .
#96
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 02:29
Feraele
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And..what if..for some strange reason...EVERY companion you put through the Joining died..what then? I think Bioware has probably got some failsafes in there somewhere. lol
#97
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 02:31
Feraele
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Vim wrote...
Super_Fr33k wrote...
So let's think outside the ME2 box, and hope BW has done the same. Though I don't see how DA wouldn't benefit from sexy blue chicks...
Oh I don't know about that...more sexy chicks, whether blue or any other color, might mean higher sales which might mean they would have more resources to dedicate to expansions which would mean fewer plot holes & botched transitions which would mean fewer upset fans & products worth their price and thus even higher sales which would result in even more money to develop expansions without gaping plot holes which would mean even more sales....etc...etc...etc...
End result: Goose that laid the golden egg, but I think Bioware is already in that position...hehe
