205 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

 I don't really like the Chantry.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 12 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[AntiChri5]

Ceridraen wrote...

I thought they did a pretty good job of showing it as both - which sums up most Our World religions, imo. Some people used it for their own power, ego, etc - some seemed well intentioned. Maybe it helped the world in some places - in certainly hurt in others. It seems that religion is really just the people it contains - it's almost like we worship ourselves, good & bad.

In my unreligious opinion...

You are now my favourite person on the entire internet (and that list includes a lot of porn stars).

Modifié par AntiChri5, 12 mars 2010 - 05:28 .

[darkmax1974]

this isnt my name wrote...

darkmax1974 wrote...

Most of you are spot on with the medieval examples.

The Catholic Church and their faith as a whole WAS an organization of bullies who reigned the religious circle with the "either you're with me or you are pagan" attitude. Just look at the mess that is the Crusade. 9/11 is just an extension of the ancient events.

The muslims started the holy war, the crusades were retaliation, then the muslims started it up again, sorry but pinning the current problems on the crusades is stupid as the reason they happaned is because of the muslim jihad, as a result its totaly self inflicted, love how you say the church is bullies and brush over 9/11, not at all an act of intimidation and violence, sounds like bullying to me...Dont put all the blame on one party.
As for in the game, I agree with some things, mages need to be monitered, one abomination is bad, thousands would be worse, the qunari deserve it by attacking and as for the exhaulted march, I would agree with the one in Orzammar, as the dwarves are stopping people beleive in what they want, so to me its more of a liberation.

sigh.... Muslims did not start the war. It is all written in the Bible. The original one at that, not the BS the Church wants us to read and buy into.

Also, try remembering that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all stems from the same source. It was the different HUMAN interpretation that causes all the troubles.

[Haasth]

Religion itself is fine I'd say. People can find comfort and help in it. Fair enough.. I'm not one of them, but that aside. The Church or in this case Chantry is mostly what makes it so bad.. Now I am not sure if they are supposed to pay the Chantry in Dragon Age, but the set of rules... the limited views and the prejudice they hold against almost anything they do not know.



I just love that, if playing a Mage, you can tell them to shove it and *spoilers* ask Alistair to get the Chantry off the Mages' backs. *end spoilers* That's what I always do, anyway.

[Abyss Vixen]

The Tevinter Imperium part of the Urn of Sacred ash's showed how well games can take history and convert it to make it there own, The fact they accepted the chantry after executed the prophet pretty much summed up rome accepting christianty some time after jesus' death and then writing the first bible in order to keep rome united. I loved the simularities in that.

But i must say the chantry is definetly taken from the Roman Catholic history and like any good "religon" i have my own counter opinions on things like the blight how it was truely formed and other things

( i've editted this post a few time to remove some bits a catholic or christian may find offensive, so hopefully it still makes sense )

Modifié par Abyss Vixen, 12 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[this isnt my name]

darkmax1974 wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

darkmax1974 wrote...

Most of you are spot on with the medieval examples.

The Catholic Church and their faith as a whole WAS an organization of bullies who reigned the religious circle with the "either you're with me or you are pagan" attitude. Just look at the mess that is the Crusade. 9/11 is just an extension of the ancient events.

The muslims started the holy war, the crusades were retaliation, then the muslims started it up again, sorry but pinning the current problems on the crusades is stupid as the reason they happaned is because of the muslim jihad, as a result its totaly self inflicted, love how you say the church is bullies and brush over 9/11, not at all an act of intimidation and violence, sounds like bullying to me...Dont put all the blame on one party.
As for in the game, I agree with some things, mages need to be monitered, one abomination is bad, thousands would be worse, the qunari deserve it by attacking and as for the exhaulted march, I would agree with the one in Orzammar, as the dwarves are stopping people beleive in what they want, so to me its more of a liberation.

sigh.... Muslims did not start the war. It is all written in the Bible. The original one at that, not the BS the Church wants us to read and buy into.

Also, try remembering that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all stems from the same source. It was the different HUMAN interpretation that causes all the troubles.

Right, because thet totally didnt invade other lands and force conversions...As for the church I dont buy any of it as I am atheist, this is built purely on what the religions look like from a neutral point, Christianity starts off good, then is hijacked, islam started spreading by the sword and just incites violence, human interpritation causes problems but its clear to me one is wrong from the start when it intices violence, rape, torture... you know bad things the world needs less off, not something you want to encourage.

[darkmax1974]

It wasn't only Islam that spread by sword and blood spilled. Christianity has its roots in there too. Also, Islam started off like christianity, as a good natured religion. However, Interpretations, translations, pride and greed creates changes. That wasn't what Islam is supposed to be.

Anyway, you have a very stereotypical, westernized, skewed view of the Islamic religion. I have the same except with the Catholics.

Modifié par darkmax1974, 12 mars 2010 - 10:40 .

[NeroSparda]

I simply hate the Chantry, only my Noble human agrees in RP sense. But he leans more of how Leliana is with accepting all, excluding seeing the Maker in his dreams. But yeah, I personally want to burn down the Chantry.

[errant_knight]

Of course, the number of abominations, demons, and bloodmages running around shows that while the Chantry leans toward overkill, they're not completely wrong.

[Abyss Vixen]

All my human noble run throughs i normaly tell the chantry to go stuff itself. Unless of course i want something from the revered mother like sten. Diplomacy is always nice " Tithy for a qaunari anyone?"

[MarkyBoy147]

me and my demon baby are dismantling the chantry in DA2

[L33tuberpwner]

Mages are dangers to themselves and others.

Just one abomination could destroy several villages and countrysides.

Blood mages can control minds and summon malicious spirits.

The chantry has done no villainy, and the Dalish brought the exalted march on themselves by isolating themselves from and mistreating humans whom which freed them and gave them a homeland.

The Chantry is benign and rather helpful to many.

Modifié par L33tuberpwner, 12 mars 2010 - 06:28 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

this isnt my name wrote...

Right, because thet totally didnt invade other lands and force conversions...As for the church I dont buy any of it as I am atheist, this is built purely on what the religions look like from a neutral point, Christianity starts off good, then is hijacked, islam started spreading by the sword and just incites violence, human interpritation causes problems but its clear to me one is wrong from the start when it intices violence, rape, torture... you know bad things the world needs less off, not something you want to encourage.

You should learn more about history. The Muslims never made forced conversions, it's against the tenants of faith. By the time of Abu Jaafar Al Mansur, more than a century after Muhammad's death, only 15% of the entire Caliphate's population was Muslim, the rest wasn't. It was the Empire that was expanded by the sword, just like any other empire, but the faith itself wasn't. It took centuries for the Muslims to become the majority.
The faith doesn't incite violence, it permits it when the cause is just. Just like Judaism.

Second, when the Muslims epxanded, at least they were constructive and tolerant. When they conquered Spain (with the help of native Jews and Christians), they turned it into the most advanced, most cultured , most wealthy and most tolerant nation in Europe. What did the Crusaders accomplish? Nothing but massacre and cannibalism.    
When the Muslism defeated the Crusaders, they didn't massacre the native Christians. When the Christians retook spain, they came up with the Inquisition and systematically annihilated the Muslim and Jewish population.

Your knowledge is clearly extremily limited and ignorant. Don't pass yourself as knowing what you are talking about. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 mars 2010 - 06:38 .

[NeroSparda]

When it comes to their own interest and belief.



It is true about Mages, but it is because they made a deal with a malicious spirit. My Blood mage only control the minds of her enemies to protect herself and her companions, including Alistair.

[Evolution33]

Is there anywhere in the game where it says which nations are Chantry nations and which are not.



If the chantry is going to have an exalted march against the dwarves and the qunari are going to be invading Ferelden then it is possible that an entire world war could be going on at the time of the second game with Chantry nations vs. non-Chantry nations.

[L33tuberpwner]

I'll join the exalted match.

''If the Maker wills it, it must be done''.

Modifié par L33tuberpwner, 12 mars 2010 - 07:19 .

[ConnorElzaim]

I would be inclined to say the Chantry and the templars by extension exist for a good and valid reason but that they often go to far in it.

Many of them don't just keep watch of the mages, they discriminate and misstreat them, some templars even flat out take some form of sick pleasure out of killing mages and apostates alike.



Than there's the whole addicting templars to lirium thing and telling them possible lies that it enhances their abilities.



Again, there's no doubt in my mind their reason to exist in fashions that guard and restrict the mages is meantr to be just. But their way of actually going about these actions often goes to far or dabbles in what is just ethically wrong which isn't exactly something moral guardians should want to be.

[Baconmonster723]

deathscythe517 wrote...

I am honestly surprised no one has brought up issue with this 'the right way' Expy of Catholic faiths.

If it isn't an Expy its at the least very very very very painfully similar and it kind of makes me depressed how such a corrupt and hypocritical church could take control of most of the known world, they suppressed the Dalish simply because they worshipped nature spirits (so help me god if you call them pagan gods i'll smack you).

And the Tevinter Imperium is rotten to the core but at the least they didn't try to bull**** their followers and everyone else in existence on what they're about. 'Hey is it alright if we worship dragons? No? Fook roo!' maybe not the most sociable but atleast brutally honest.

The Qunari however I have no justification for as that was just normal war, Qunari invade, natives retaliate: simple as that.

And don't get me started on how they demonize every mage in existence wholely, Morrigan may grate my nerves as much as she calms me, but she has one point.

The Chantry appears to be 50% BS and 50% half-truths

As always with all religion, it is not religion itself that is bad, but it is the people running the religion that are corrupt and evil.  The Chantry much like the Catholic church could be a service to the people.  Providing for the poor and neglected, much like the option to convince the shaper to allow there to be a shrine set up in Orzammar.  However, as always, man finds a way to fudge this up and make it an evil organization.  At its core the Chantry is a very useful and good organization.  Whether they are protecting the general populous from maleficars through the templars, or providing for the downtrodden through charities.  Therefore, it is absolutely a good organization, at its core.  But with all things in power comes corruption, and religious organizations are no exception. 

[Bartholomeu]

Personally, I believe that the upper echelon of the Chantry is composed of blood mages. The Chantry is just a front to consolidate their power and control. They have the anti-magic warriors addicted to lyrium, a trade that they control. They persecute other mages that could be a threat to their power by locking them away in a tower. And they vehemently seek out and destroy any other person(s) that could rival them in power (more blood mages). Not to mention that every bloody follower of the chantry sounds mind controlled in that they cannot comprehend anything but the chantry or the chant of light.

[L33tuberpwner]

^ this isn't a JRPG.

[Danielsun2]

what you guys have to remember is that this isn't just an RPG...this is a M&S RPG



P:S also on that note what happened to the dalish was not fair on them saying that ignored the very people who helped free them is a bit silly, they didnt want to die so they secluded themselves.



Nothing wrong with that, so then they got invaded and taken as slaves eventually andraste of ferelden and with her followers free'd them they, finally they made another home and got preached to by the chantry, most likely insulting their gods (yes they are pagan) after seeing the destruction happening at an Orlais village the humans that had oppressed them and are trying to convert them, you really think they are going to risk their lives for them?



i know i wouldn't



so yeah after getting pushed around they would take over said village as a sign of protest as 'leave us alone' so the douche bag chantry decided to have a little exalted march and yet again humans push them out of the only home land they had, imo the chantry should be destroyed, if thats a little extreme well i cant see a reason why orlais cant be carpet bombed? xD



who would miss it anyways, bunch of stuck up nobles, pfft

[Dethanos]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...
...The Crusades and current wars are completely different. The Crusades were Christians trying to take the holy land Jerusalem from the Muslims but it is also a sacred place for them. The current war and things like 9/11 were caused by power hunger...

Well, I was gonna stay out of this thread, but I've gotta disagree with what you've said here.

The Crusades were just as much about power as any other conflict. Retaking the holy land was merely a pretext. Wars are fought for land and resources, for power. Religion is merely used as a justification. It's the same now as it was during the Crusades.

Ron Perlman says...

War. War never changes...

Sorry, had to throw that in.