205 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahzrei]

Technically, they are Pagan gods. The definition of the word "Pagan" is vague, at best.





And I agree with the OP, the chantry is corrupt. I made a nice little spiel about it in this weeks Dev question, but I'll reiterate my favorite point here.



They use addiction to keep their military power loyal, which is so very wrong I can hardly understand how anyone can support them based on that fact alone. They don't even try to hide it, it's disgusting. (That is not to say that hiding their depravity makes them any less terrible, it's more of a statement on their sheer audacity.)

[Presentdent]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Presentdent wrote...
I don't think any religion is superior. They're all different interpretations, my ignorant friend.

SO you claim now, my ignorant friend, and yet you still called them the "Three World Religions" as though the world has no other religions worth speaking of.

There's other religions worth speaking of?

I kid!

And I've already defined it. You just refuse to read the definition. It depends on the amount of continents they're in/the number of their converts in each. No other religion comes close to Christianity and Islam. Not Buddhism. Not Hinduism.

[Ahisgewaya]

kingthrall wrote...

Oh im wrong, i apologise my life is ruined for somthing i dont believe in. Thanks for clarifying that info that ill read into a bit more to learn more about this sect.

In the end though, you still utterly fail in your argument that the chantry is a catholic or christian religion. I agree it has the essence of either religion of sacrifice for peoples sins. But by altering the chantry with other fictionous events it becomes less and less like the real thing. Which is a good thing in my opinion because it covers bioware from being sued.

The chantry does not have enough detail of human history or close undertones to make that kind of assumption. Its like they took the most basic chunk of every day knowledge and kept all the details that make it a unique religion.

IT wasn't MY argument. The Chantry is a fake religion made up for a game. I never intended to give the impression that I think they are the same. I am however pissed off about the nonchalant attitude many here have professed reguarding the subjugation and culture anihilation of the elves in this game, which is eerily similar to something which happened in real life and which has affected my life and the lives of those close to me in a profoundly negative way.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 14 mars 2010 - 06:43 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Presentdent wrote...
There's other religions worth speaking of?

I kid!

And I've already defined it. You just refuse to read the definition. It depends on the amount of continents they're in/the number of their converts in each. No other religion comes close to Christianity and Islam. Not Buddhism. Not Hinduism.

What about animists? Most places in the world were at some point animist. AT one point in the earth's history there wasn't a single christian, jew or muslim around.

[Presentdent]

When you say "Three World Religions" you mean Today.

Also, Animus? We get to see Altair and Ezio!?

[Ahisgewaya]

Today, there are not only three world religions. There are in fact several.



As to the second part of your post, I have no idea what you're talking about so I'll just back away slowly......

[kingthrall]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

kingthrall wrote...

Oh im wrong, i apologise my life is ruined for somthing i dont believe in. Thanks for clarifying that info that ill read into a bit more to learn more about this sect.

In the end though, you still utterly fail in your argument that the chantry is a catholic or christian religion. I agree it has the essence of either religion of sacrifice for peoples sins. But by altering the chantry with other fictionous events it becomes less and less like the real thing. Which is a good thing in my opinion because it covers bioware from being sued.

The chantry does not have enough detail of human history or close undertones to make that kind of assumption. Its like they took the most basic chunk of every day knowledge and kept all the details that make it a unique religion.

IT wasn't MY argument. The Chantry is a fake religion made up for a game. I never intended to give the impression that I think they are the same. I am however pissed off about the nonchalant attitude many here have professed reguarding the subjugation and culture anihilation of the elves in this game, which is eerily similar to something which happened in real life and which has affected my life and the lives of those close to me in a profoundly negative way.

i wont say anything after this post about the elves because your going off topic its about the chantry. Regardless of what you may say agaist this, ill just pretend i wrote somthing entertaining to annoy you more.

I love the fact the elves got ahniliated and destroyed, its always the dwaves that are subject to being the destroyed race. I loved this change, in fact my natural hated of elves has been before this game was even created. Elves no matter what type of fantasy have always been up themselves about how they live in the glorious trees and happy villages away from all other races (because they think they are better). Its just a shame they didnt end up nuked in the game to make my day even more.

[Ahisgewaya]

god, why doesn't Bioware close this damn topic.........



And good to see your true colors, that of Nuking babies, Oh thrall of kings and king of thralls.

[kennyme2]

I think that the Chantry serves a vital purpose in making sure that mages don't turn into abominations. They way they go about, though, is inhumane. You all know the whole prison method they employ so I won't go any further on their methods.



I think that it would be really cool if instead of using current methods, the Chantry would couple a mage with one Templar, maybe from birth or as early as possible. That way, they could grow to know each other very well and the Templar would be better able to keep the Mage from being possessed. If you pair mages and Templars then mages would be able to travel the lands and help people. Or even have them form groups so that they have backup e.g. a group of 4 mages with one Templar each is assigned to each town or something like that.

[kingthrall]

i clearly didnt say i was agaist war or nukes, in any of my posts.

[Ahisgewaya]

kennyme2 wrote...

I think that the Chantry serves a vital purpose in making sure that mages don't turn into abominations. They way they go about, though, is inhumane. You all know the whole prison method they employ so I won't go any further on their methods.

I think that it would be really cool if instead of using current methods, the Chantry would couple a mage with one Templar, maybe from birth or as early as possible.

LOL! One of us, one of them eh? Somebody must be a heroes fan! (could be just me though)

[Ahisgewaya]

kingthrall wrote...

i clearly didnt say i was agaist war or nukes, in any of my posts.

no, only against babies. I think there's an insect over there you can pull the wings off of.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 14 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[kingthrall]

i dont mind nukeing babies also if i had the power.

[Ahisgewaya]

WHat was it that I said about someone who thinks wiping out a people is acceptable? It's a few posts back. You should reald it, thrall, as it clearly applies to you.

[kingthrall]

This isnt a question about my Morality, its a question about the Chantry and its ties with religion. This is way off topic and on that note im off to play empire total war. Hopefully killing thousands of innocents in whatever province you live in for my pleasure.



Good day

[Ahisgewaya]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I'll say it again, destruction of a people is never justified. If you think it is you are a colossal ass and the world would be a better place without you.

Oh yeah! THat's what I said! Now I remember...

[Ahisgewaya]

kingthrall wrote...
This is way off topic and on that note im off to play empire total war. Hopefully killing thousands of innocents in whatever province you live in for my pleasure.

And I'm off to kill Howe. I somehow think you and he have a lot in common.

Remember to say "I deserve more!" after the innocents you try to kill wipe the floor with you.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 14 mars 2010 - 07:38 .

[ZaroktheImmortal]

The chantry reminded me much of christians. They were big on hatred towards those who don't believe and telling you of some punishment for not believing much like christians of today. The chantry were always shoving their beliefs down people's throats also much like christians.

The Dalish reminded me more of modern day pagans in worshipping many gods and nature and not trying to force their beliefs on others.

I liked the fact that Morrigan was a much more logical character. She seemed like the most intelligent party member. The only one that didn't believe in some fairy tale simply because she was told to believe it.

My character like myself needs no fairy tale. No safety blanket for fear of the unknown. So whenever I get the chance I tell those of the chantry were they can stick their religion much in the same way I have been telling christians who would try to force their beliefs on me.

But I think Bioware did a good job of showing religion as it really is.

Modifié par ZaroktheImmortal, 14 mars 2010 - 06:24 .

[Timmibal]

The Chantry is a fake religion made up for a game.

/thread



Successful trolls can go home now.

[Xandurpein]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

The chantry reminded me much of christians. They were big on hatred towards those who don't believe and telling you of some punishment for not believing much like christians of today. The chantry were always shoving their beliefs down people's throats also much like christians.

The Dalish reminded me more of modern day pagans in worshipping many gods and nature and not trying to force their beliefs on others.

There is a big difference, for good and bad, between a universial religion and a tribal religion. A universial religion (like the chantry and Christianity) is open to everyone, but also often claims as purpose to convert everyone to their religion. A tribal religion (like the dalish or judaism) is primariely tied to one group. The members of a tribal religion seldom has any interest to convert people outside the group, but can be as hard as any other religion on people within the group if they abandon the faith. I doubt the Dalish would even welcome a human seeking them out wishing to convert to their religion.

[Feraele]

deathscythe517 wrote...

Kind of figured that out, I'm not saying Christianity and Catholic faiths are invalid.

They do help people improve themselves sometimes and I know many people whom have made it through troubling times on sheer devotion, however the Chantry in the game is taken to ridiculous levels with being able to assault the Tevinter Imperium, Dalish Elves, and those Qunari in almost a rhythmic order.

Plus there is a distinct lack of people questioning the chantry in the game which strikes me as odd: oh well, guess it's to be expected when they're about as friendly as the Imperium of Man.

filaminstrel wrote...

I thought pagans had repossessed the
term pagan to have a positive connotation again. At least, for them
using the word anyway. Many people identify as pagan themselves. I
suppose people from any of the Abrahamic religions might still treat the
term with a measure of scorn.

It's not so much people treating it with scorn as the way the wiki put it, it's almost as if they purposely wanted to insult Pagan religions by referring to the whole BS Exalted March against the Dales as "Elves get pwned for being Pagans"

To the guy above you I'm still trying to sort out what's truth and what isn't in this but at this point I'd rather live in the Tevinter Imperium that worshipped the Old Gods because this stuff with the Chantry is plum ridiculous.

The distinct lack of people questioning or criticizing the Chantry aka Church...might be put down to some things such as,  people's ignorance that there is any other way to think.    I mean it was like that way back when in real life.    You believed what the Church told you to believe, anything else...was heresy.

We are supposed to be dealing with not very advanced people here in Ferelden..feudal society and all that.

So the "Church" gets away with their propaganda for now..till someone wises up and starts thinking for themselves, and loses their fear of repercussions from the "Church".    

Thats how I see it.

[Dethanos]

Presentdent wrote...

Dethanos was right until I read that bit about human rights.

I mean... it's in all three major World Religions, it's called the Ten Commandments. Even if you don't think Religion "did it" it is an example of religion trying to organize society for the better. They were definately a step up from Hammurabi and Sargon, at any rate, other famous examples of written laws made to guide humans and grant rights to people. So, please, Dethanos, if you're not going to bother responding intelligently to this point, don't respond at all. You came off as quite good, otherwise.

What do the ten commandments have to do with human rights? What rights did they grant?

Sure, they were laws for a better Hebrew society, but that doesn't make them rights. It certainly isn't enough to credit religion with teaching us human rights. Show me the concept that human beings have rights in a religious text.

As for it being a step-up from Hammurabi, I disagree with that as well. You can't compare Hammurabi's code to the ten commandments alone. The commandments don't address punishment. If you look at all the laws in the books of Moses, the punishments are just as brutal as Hammurabi's.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't see what the ten commandments added to the concept of law. If you care to explain, I'll be happy to read it.

[Nhadalie]

I think we can sum this all up to say that every organized religion has done both good and bad things, yes? Or at least, groups of people of different religions have done good and bad things.

Likewise, the Chantry in Dragon age has done both good and bad things. Belief is a powerful motivation, and it makes people feel better to believe in something. The Chantry takes care of orphans, helps those less fortunate, and protects the people from mages causing a great deal of harm. On the flip side, they've caused elves to become second class citizens, destroyed the Dales, and pretty much put all mages into a nice little jail all of their own. As well as hunting down any mages who do not wish to live in a jail, and be watched by the templars 24/7. They also have their own army of lyrium addicted, easily controllable templars.

Just like anything else, it depends on the perspective that you look at it from. From the perspective of a Dalish elf, the Chantry is a vile organization. From the perspective of the average person in Dragon age, the Chantry does a lot of good. The world isn't black and white. Every organization does good and bad things. That's just how life is.

While Christianity, Islam, and Judaism may be three of the biggest religions in the world today, that doesn't make them the most important ones. Personally, I'm agnostic with pagan leanings. But I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic school all of my life. Needless to say, I learned a great deal about hypocrisy in organized religion as well as the bad things they've done. But I've also witnessed the peace religion can give people, and the joy they can find in those communities.

Modifié par Nhadalie, 14 mars 2010 - 05:08 .

[kennyme2]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

kennyme2 wrote...

I think that the Chantry serves a vital purpose in making sure that mages don't turn into abominations. They way they go about, though, is inhumane. You all know the whole prison method they employ so I won't go any further on their methods.

I think that it would be really cool if instead of using current methods, the Chantry would couple a mage with one Templar, maybe from birth or as early as possible.

LOL! One of us, one of them eh? Somebody must be a heroes fan! (could be just me though)

I don't watch Heroes so I don't get the reference

[Dethanos]

kingthrall wrote...

all i have to say to this is **** off and stop being a troll, i dont even know where to begin to answer your stupid delusional assumptions. I am not even going to bother answering this because you have not read the bible or any other form of religious texts.

And you wonder why there are wars? well its usually people like you who dont know how to read, and dont understand the whole bigger picture of religion that make all the others grab their pitchforks and ring the tavern bell.

I dont even need to understand relgion to know why you shoudnt compare the two. Maybe ill just say that the darkspawn are all Facist (cant say N word)  and your father was also a **** because he is delusional for his country at the time.

Wow.

I have not insulted you in any way, while you seem to throw a personal attack into almost every post. By what logic am I the troll? Does the simple act of disagreeing with you and stating my views make me a troll? If so, well, that's not something I intend to stop. Sorry.

If you feel I've made "stupid delusional assumptions", please, point them out and explain to everyone how they are wrong. For example, you made the assumption that I have not read the bible. That is incorrect. I was indoctrinated as a Christrian as a child. It was my reading of the Old Testament that eventually led me to turn away from that religion.

The rest of you post seems to be a series of increasingly nonsensical ad hominems, so I'll just ignore it. If you would like to address the content of my statements, I'll be happy to engage is a civil discussion. However, if you're only interested making insults, I am done here.