205 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

kingthrall wrote...

...ring the tavern bell...

Happy hour? Yay!

[kingthrall]

Dethanos wrote...

kingthrall wrote...

all i have to say to this is **** off and stop being a troll, i dont even know where to begin to answer your stupid delusional assumptions. I am not even going to bother answering this because you have not read the bible or any other form of religious texts.

And you wonder why there are wars? well its usually people like you who dont know how to read, and dont understand the whole bigger picture of religion that make all the others grab their pitchforks and ring the tavern bell.

I dont even need to understand relgion to know why you shoudnt compare the two. Maybe ill just say that the darkspawn are all Facist (cant say N word)  and your father was also a **** because he is delusional for his country at the time.

Wow.

I have not insulted you in any way, while you seem to throw a personal attack into almost every post. By what logic am I the troll? Does the simple act of disagreeing with you and stating my views make me a troll? If so, well, that's not something I intend to stop. Sorry.

If you feel I've made "stupid delusional assumptions", please, point them out and explain to everyone how they are wrong. For example, you made the assumption that I have not read the bible. That is incorrect. I was indoctrinated as a Christrian as a child. It was my reading of the Old Testament that eventually led me to turn away from that religion.

The rest of you post seems to be a series of increasingly nonsensical ad hominems, so I'll just ignore it. If you would like to address the content of my statements, I'll be happy to engage is a civil discussion. However, if you're only interested making insults, I am done here.

i dont need to argue with you. Just read what i had to say to that other tool about what you said. You have insulted me by trying to pick away at my argument and attempt to show me that i am wrong. In which case i am obvoiusly not.

I will have the same conclusion for you as for that other person, and as for swearing, i love it. Its my favorite past-time and i dont prentend not to like you with clever undertones in my context.

[stylepoints]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

And I stick by what I said, the destruction of a people is never justified. And I also stick by what I said, that anyone who thinks it is justified is an ass.

You shouldn't be so bitter. Throughout the course of human history worse things have happened to people than what happened to the native americans. One thing that you will learn about the world is might makes right. Any concept of fairness or balance you may have is a "religion" of its own. Believing in some universal code of right and wrong only leads to friction and conflict with others. Because no matter how right you think you are, someone else doesn't. It will always be this way.

The only people with the ability to decide right and wrong (as far as politics/war/religion are concerned) are those who are powerful, as they govern. Going around being bitter and absolutist about your views will not get you any further knowlege in life, nor will it enrich the lives of those around you.

"Belief," as a whole, is a bad thing. It is actually exactly what Flemeth said, something about believing or not believing, either way you are a fool. Belief is what makes people hate each other, and is responsible for a great deal of crisis in the world.

[SRWill64]

There is a right and wrong in this or any other world. Genocide is wrong. Unjustified killing is murder and it is wrong.Condemning other people for their belief is wrong, but not as bad as some other things. Having a religion is not to say that you condemn others for a different point of view, because I do not. I do have a very strong sense of morals and right and wrong....much like Alistair's. My characters get along with him so naturally that I get points just by having him in my party when I do things that require a moral or just decision, so that should tell you where I'm coming from. But I don't believe in killing someone just because they believe differently than you do and arguing with people never solves anything (this I know from personal experience). You may think that I must portray myself as some kind of paragon of virtue, but I am not. Even I ****** off Alistair once in a while, and he is like the white knight.

[SRWill64]

Trooper Guy 1

I disagree with you on the 'Templars are not jerks'. I have met a couple that are, tough most are not. And the BEST Templar is not even a real Templar...Alistair.

[SRWill64]

Evolution33 wrote...

there are possibilities in the game for an exalted march against the dwarves. It seems rather hard to avoid as I have gotten it every time. So maybe the next game will be an exalted march against the dwarves and while this happens the Quanari invade. just imagine all the choices and the level of epicness that could be involved.

If this should really occur, I think my girl would just take Alistair and leave Fereldan to it's fate. It would be a lost cause anyway! I hear Antiva is really nice this time of the year.....

[SRWill64]

Oh, I forgot the real reason why I dropped in here.....
I think the Chantry is wrong for demanding all blood mages to become Calm or be destroyed; they can't see inside someone and know if they are good or bad people and not all blood mages are bad!
The other thing that really frosts me about them is their control over the lyrium and addicting the Templars to lyrium so they can control the Templars! It's so wrong! I can't even BEGIN to say how wrong this practice is, and how GLAD I am that Bioware didn't make Alistair a lyrium addict.

Modifié par SRWill64, 15 mars 2010 - 08:52 .

[ganstamaori]

First, Catholics are Christians.



Anyway, I'm a Catholic but I find the Chantry annoying. Very annoying. It seems to bring out quite a bit of the negatives of religion, what with the exalted marches on all these different groups.

[stylepoints]

SRWill64 wrote...

There is a right and wrong in this or any other world. Genocide is wrong. Unjustified killing is murder and it is wrong.Condemning other people for their belief is wrong, but not as bad as some other things. Having a religion is not to say that you condemn others for a different point of view, because I do not. I do have a very strong sense of morals and right and wrong....much like Alistair's. My characters get along with him so naturally that I get points just by having him in my party when I do things that require a moral or just decision, so that should tell you where I'm coming from. But I don't believe in killing someone just because they believe differently than you do and arguing with people never solves anything (this I know from personal experience). You may think that I must portray myself as some kind of paragon of virtue, but I am not. Even I ****** off Alistair once in a while, and he is like the white knight.

There are very few "rights and wrongs" in this or any world. The entire purpose of this game is to wage genocide against the darkspawn. But it is ok? How does one justify a killing? By their beliefs. No two cultures have entirely the same beliefs, see where I'm going here?

Religion does not in itself kill people. But belief systems coupled with the human condition are cause for conflict. The peace they seek to spread is instead turned to conflict and strife.

Your very strong sense of morals and right and wrong as you put it would not align with someone else who also has a very strong sense of THEIR morals. Right and wrong are not absolutes. The fact that you believe so vehemently that you are right is what causes turmoil. Someone else in this world thinks differently from you do, and would say the same thing you just said to these forums. What happens when you two meet? What would happen if you were both leaders of your respective people?

What happens when one group says a killing is justified and one doesn't? You being sure of yourself does not mean you are right. Beliefs are not a math problem, there is not a formula to arrive at the correct answer. The best thing you can do is be open minded in ALL that you do. This is how you grow as a human being and learn more of the world.

Modifié par stylepoints, 15 mars 2010 - 09:04 .

[SRWill64]

Abyss Vixen wrote...

All my human noble run throughs i normaly tell the chantry to go stuff itself. Unless of course i want something from the revered mother like sten. Diplomacy is always nice " Tithy for a qaunari anyone?"

I just spring Sten (I play a human noble rogue), and the Chantry and Revered Mother can kiss my fuzzy doggy's butt. It's wrong to leave him (or anyone else, for that matter) in a cage for the darkspawn. It's one of the VERY few occasions when I agree with Morrigan (though my approval with her is 100%).

[SRWill64]

stylepoints wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

There is a right and wrong in this or any other world. Genocide is wrong. Unjustified killing is murder and it is wrong.Condemning other people for their belief is wrong, but not as bad as some other things. Having a religion is not to say that you condemn others for a different point of view, because I do not. I do have a very strong sense of morals and right and wrong....much like Alistair's. My characters get along with him so naturally that I get points just by having him in my party when I do things that require a moral or just decision, so that should tell you where I'm coming from. But I don't believe in killing someone just because they believe differently than you do and arguing with people never solves anything (this I know from personal experience). You may think that I must portray myself as some kind of paragon of virtue, but I am not. Even I ****** off Alistair once in a while, and he is like the white knight.

There are very few "rights and wrongs" in this or any world. The entire purpose of this game is to wage genocide against the darkspawn. But it is ok? How does one justify a killing? By their beliefs. No two cultures have entirely the same beliefs, see where I'm going here?

Religion does not in itself kill people. But belief systems coupled with the human condition are cause for conflict. The peace they seek to spread is instead turned to conflict and strife.

Your very strong sense of morals and right and wrong as you put it would not align with someone else who also has a very strong sense of THEIR morals. Right and wrong are not absolutes. The fact that you believe so vehemently that you are right is what causes turmoil. Someone else in this world thinks differently from you do, and would say the same thing you just said to these forums. What happens when you two meet? What would happen if you were both leaders of your respective people?

What happens when one group says a killing is justified and one doesn't? You being sure of yourself does not mean you are right. Beliefs are not a math problem, there is not a formula to arrive at the correct answer. The best thing you can do is be open minded in ALL that you do. This is how you grow as a human being and learn more of the world.

As I said before, I do not condemn others for their point of view, but I DO conduct my own life with the sense of morals I seem to have been born with as do we all. I doubt many people would disagree with the truth that senseless killing (murder) is wrong; rape is wrong; torture is wrong. We all are born with these types of morals and then allow ourselves to be desensitized to the horrors of these acts as we get older. It's a defense mechanism, but it doesn't make them ok just because we aren't horrified by them anymore. When we think these things are ok, we cease to be human....much like the darkspawn.

[Ahisgewaya]

kingthrall wrote...

Dethanos wrote...

kingthrall wrote...

all i have to say to this is **** off and stop being a troll, i dont even know where to begin to answer your stupid delusional assumptions. I am not even going to bother answering this because you have not read the bible or any other form of religious texts.

And you wonder why there are wars? well its usually people like you who dont know how to read, and dont understand the whole bigger picture of religion that make all the others grab their pitchforks and ring the tavern bell.

I dont even need to understand relgion to know why you shoudnt compare the two. Maybe ill just say that the darkspawn are all Facist (cant say N word)  and your father was also a **** because he is delusional for his country at the time.

Wow.

I have not insulted you in any way, while you seem to throw a personal attack into almost every post. By what logic am I the troll? Does the simple act of disagreeing with you and stating my views make me a troll? If so, well, that's not something I intend to stop. Sorry.

If you feel I've made "stupid delusional assumptions", please, point them out and explain to everyone how they are wrong. For example, you made the assumption that I have not read the bible. That is incorrect. I was indoctrinated as a Christrian as a child. It was my reading of the Old Testament that eventually led me to turn away from that religion.

The rest of you post seems to be a series of increasingly nonsensical ad hominems, so I'll just ignore it. If you would like to address the content of my statements, I'll be happy to engage is a civil discussion. However, if you're only interested making insults, I am done here.

i dont need to argue with you. Just read what i had to say to that other tool about what you said. You have insulted me by trying to pick away at my argument and attempt to show me that i am wrong. In which case i am obvoiusly not.

I will have the same conclusion for you as for that other person, and as for swearing, i love it. Its my favorite past-time and i dont prentend not to like you with clever undertones in my context.

I don't think you understand what the insult of "tool" means. To be a tool is to be used, to blindly follow someone. It is not to speak one's mind, nor is it disagreeing with an idiot named kingthrall.

Dethanos has been much more polite to you in his posts than you have been in yours. This makes you seem like a complete and total Douche. It is not obvious that you are not wrong, in fact I would say quite the opposite. Two against one I'm afraid, which means you should start evaluating how childish you have been acting. You have embarassed yourself with every post you've made, and I doubt you even know. I pitty you.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 15 mars 2010 - 09:22 .

[stylepoints]

The darkspawn are sentient beings much like yourself. They need to capture people to survive. So their invasions aren't senseless. Senseless misdirects the point. To you a killing may be senseless, to someone else a killing may have plenty of justification.



Look at all of the killing throughout history. Very little of it was "senseless." However one side not being able to see the reason (or not being satisfied with the reason) will retaliate. You could argue that mentally unstable people commit senseless murder, but even to them their murders aren't senseless.

[Ahisgewaya]

stylepoints wrote...

You shouldn't be so bitter.

While I disagree with pretty much everything else you said in that post, you are right about me needing to calm down a bit. This is just a game after all.

[OldMan91]

What happens when one group says a killing is justified and one doesn't? You being sure of yourself does not mean you are right. Beliefs are not a math problem, there is not a formula to arrive at the correct answer. The best thing you can do is be open minded in ALL that you do. This is how you grow as a human being and learn more of the world.

There is a limit to how open minded you can be with certain actions. In theory it's nice to go on post-modern relativist debates, and to keep asking the question "why" to everything the other person argues. In practice however people NEED a moral center, a code, a belief to live by. Otherwise society cannot move forward, and stagnation is death.

“We may be indifferent to the death penalty and not declare ourselves, either way so long as we have not seen a guillotine with our own eyes. But when we do, the shock is violent, and we are compelled to choose sides, for or against.” -Les Miserables

Modifié par OldMan91, 15 mars 2010 - 09:26 .

[stylepoints]

I'm not asking why, I'm stating that there is no answer. No moral code can be universally applied to everyone, and everyone who insists on trying to do so ends up dead or hated... or both.

Oh yea I can throw fun quotes around too!



"Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature."  ~George Bernard Shaw

Modifié par stylepoints, 15 mars 2010 - 09:40 .

[OldMan91]

I'm not asking why, I'm stating that there is no answer. No moral code can be universally applied to everyone, and everyone who insists on trying to do so ends up dead or hated... or both.

In the realm of theory, there is no answer. In practice, there WILL be an answer.

Society moves forward. Revolutions have always been bloody, especially during the 19th century. Many of our modern democracies were built on the blood, sweat and bodies of thousands. The "moral code" of liberals was stamped firmly on our society by force in many cases. Germany wouldn't exist if statesmen like Bismarck had not employed a conservative or nationalist moral code (though truth be told, Bismarck was an 100% opportunist).

It's not nice to hear, but it's how it is.

Modifié par OldMan91, 15 mars 2010 - 09:44 .

[stylepoints]

Certainly. I'm not proposing that everyone should just abandon their ideals, because well, they wouldn't anyway. People will go on believing they are right no matter what happens, part of the human condition. Hopefully they will at least be wise enough to realize that other people are just as "right" when they disagree.



If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.  ~George S. Patton

Modifié par stylepoints, 15 mars 2010 - 09:50 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Right or Wrong depends on wether you are a moral relativist or an moral absolutist, neither is neccesarily incorrect, but nor can either of them be proved. Most religions are based on an absolutist view point, and most atheist prefer the relativist view point.

[Nhadalie]

While killing the darkspawn is technically genocide. We can't exactly invite them over for tea and offer to form a peace treaty with them.


"Oh yes, Mr.Urthemiel. Would you like some scones? They're very nice."

"Yes, indeed. They truly are. Would you be so kind as to stop killing my kind? We will only occasionally steal some of your women away."

"Only on tuesdays. And only 2 of them at a time."

"Very well. We have an agreement then?"

~both of them sign a piece of paper~

[kingthrall]

Ahisgewaya please stop sucking up to Dethanos, if he wants to attack me by all means. I dont really care how you percieve my writing because your agaist my point of view anyway, it makes no difference if i call you a tool, a --wad or a knave.



As for Genocide, I think it is a natural way to separating the strong from the weak like yourself. Mercy for people is just like handing a cake to your family and letting them take 3/4 of it so they can live. Its a Waste of resources and prevents humans from Archiveing greater results.

[Tuleron]

...I'ts a game? On all the medieval age's games the church is involved

[EmperorSahlertz]

kingthrall wrote...

Ahisgewaya please stop sucking up to Dethanos, if he wants to attack me by all means. I dont really care how you percieve my writing because your agaist my point of view anyway, it makes no difference if i call you a tool, a --wad or a knave.

As for Genocide, I think it is a natural way to separating the strong from the weak like yourself. Mercy for people is just like handing a cake to your family and letting them take 3/4 of it so they can live. Its a Waste of resources and prevents humans from Archiveing greater results.

What the hell are you talking about genocide being natural? Do you even know what genocide is? "Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group." That is anything but natural.

And mercy is a virtue of the strong, only the weak can't afford to show mercy.

Come on if you want to sound intellectual at least first read a book about the subjects you try to sound learned in.

[Gabey5]

they really annoyed me in game.....

[Feraele]

I think this is a "dangerous" topic..hehe

@ Emperor I have to agree with your statements on genocide and mercy.



Genocide or attempted genocide caused a world war..a world war that was "man-made" ..nothing natural about it at all.



And wars get started over differing beliefs, such as religions that clash, or territorial grabs.

Again man-made.



I am no historian, for sure, nor any expert.



I just think we haven't advanced much as a civilization, because we haven't learned not to go to war.