133 réponses à ce sujet

[DonFredek]

by the way draco,thats what i am saying.carrying ammo when not needed=dumb.so why do it?

[DonFredek]

still crossbows and stones for ME3

[TJSolo]

mrfoo1 wrote...

rab****annel wrote...
lol. It just baffles me. When BW announced that they were changing the weapon system from infinite ammo w/ overheat to ammo/heat sinks, I skimmed their technological explanation and it made sense. I'm just wondering why this isn't common knowledge.

I hate the ammo consumption systems. One of my favourite combat systems I have ever seen was the "weapon heating" system used in ME1.  So for ME3 I really hope they bring that system back in any form to prevent the abuse that was available in ME1.

Also what was the line of reasoning they used in the tech explanation that they used?

If you mean the explanation that is given in ME?

Geth adaptation
It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in
performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically
reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic
barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins.
Combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste
heat or pause as their weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable
heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers
were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained
soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with
superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead
and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.


cited:Mass Effect wiki taken from the codex

[Pocketgb]

Mechanically I don't mind it and actually enjoy it. Lorewise it doesn't make too much sense. It honestly would've been much better if Shepard picked up that pistol and went "huh? why won't it shoot?" and Miranda explained that in the two years he was gone weapons advanced to a point of being much, much more deadly but requiring ammo clips. This would make sense gameplay wise too since you can die much more easily in this game if you're not careful.

[SpaceLion2071]

OP seems to pull a lot of facts out of his ass

[EternalWolfe]

When I first heard about heat sinks, I thought they meant to have the overheating(with faster overheating and slower/no overheat cooldown) and heat sinks to switch in if that happens. I was a little suprised by the ammo - but then again, I play multiple genres of games, rather then a single one type, so having limited ammo isn't a problem for me.



Only part that really bothers me about it is the lore - its a little shakey, since all and all, the guns of ME1 were more effective overall(no wasted heat sinks, never run out of 'ammo', ect). Now they accept all the problems with the new system(and its all been done in couple of years, both the research and the distribution). Collector's drop heatsinks. . .why? The lore doesn't fit the background - before they had a way to cool the heatsinks, but now the heatsinks are used up(even if you don't fire them for a long while) and we just waste more(Still not sure how I can reload a heat sink and not waste 'ammo' though).



But, yeah, mostly lore problems.

[Dewarren2010]

wow, can't believe we're going into this again. Listen OP, if you feel that strongly about it, trade the game back in and stop posting on these forums. Just go troll somewhere else.

Modifié par Dewarren2010, 13 mars 2010 - 12:36 .

[DonFredek]

seems like the stereotypical reaction fromy small minded people that come to argue with people to tell them not to argue.so why are you here on this post?bored ,no real life?and if you mean by pulling facts out of my ass that i give your little braind a tiny lil world some insight that you normally would not have and that your synapses collapse when you hear informations that go outside of your small closed world full of propaganda than yeah,maybe you are right.go and learn dudes and dudettes this is just for arguing and showingthe bioware folks that some decisions and sexplanations ruin games that have really huge potential and that they kill them by being ignorant,inconsistent and often uncreative.too bad they are still tehe best out there and that every ruined game with such potential is a pitty,given that nearly all games are brainless soulless impersonations of games.heck amiga had more creative games and gameplay solutions with a few mb capacity.so why do most people mahe bs games(not saying me is bs but the waste a lot of potential).i think ea has something to do with it.they give us lil gimmicks like trophies for going right or crouching behind chairs and talking to strangers or something.they give us newest graphics and sweat and all but no gameplay.at least bioware has a history of good storytelling and character creation.the game industry needs a shakeup.cant be there are only 2k and ea.ist grotesque.so yeah thats why i create such topics eventhough i normally dont talk on boards very often.and thast why i bother and explain people why i think they have no brain instead of telling the political correct bs that everyone has an opinion blaha blah,sure everyone has an opinion but not everyones is reasonable or right and why shouldnt i tell him.if his mother does not i have to.

[xDarkicex]

I love the thermal Clip huge improvement and I rather enjoy the reload animations

[Kileyan]

xDarkicex wrote...

I love the thermal Clip huge improvement and I rather enjoy the reload animations

I don't mind ammo existing and find the need to reload is a perfectly fine thing to have. What I didn't like is the tacky implementation of arbitrary ammo limits combined with zero inventory customization. It is like they ported over the simplistic ammo caps of a popular shooter, and there is no lore explanation for such idiotic tactics for an elite soldier.

What kind of soldier, likely trained for years to become a sniper rifle or shotgun specialist, REPEATEDLY goes into battle with less than 20 shots for his favored weapon? What highly trained specialist soldier, backed by more money than likely any military in the galaxy, goes into battle with the main part of the battleplan being that to suceed they must luck into ammo laying on the ground or digging through dead enemies clothing for ammo. Why can I find dozens of clips, but I can never carry more than 8-16 rounds of ammo.

The existance of ammo is ok, the reloading animation I like, but the system being turned into a generic capped ammo capacity sytem is just bad for an rpg, IMHO. Give me a little choice in my loadout:)

Blah still a great game and kind regret bumping this thread, I was bored.

[loengrim]

just a tought.



is there a mod out there that forces the heat sinks dropped by enemies to be added to your ammo stock instead?



the heat sink idea was fun for the first playthrough but it gets tedious further on.. same as planet scanning.. and the lack of a drivable moon buggy..

[rabbitchannel]

mrfoo1 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...
If you mean the explanation that is given in ME?

Geth adaptation
It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in
performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically
reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic
barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins.
Combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste
heat or pause as their weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable
heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers
were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained
soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with
superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead
and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.


cited:Mass Effect wiki taken from the codex

If that's the expl. that rabbit is refering to then sure why not. I dislike that explanation; as well as most of the ones given in the codex's for ME1/ME2. They seem a little lazy.

I explained it in a previous post in this same thread.

[phordicus]

thermal clip?   thermal clip! 

[Kirabi]

I hate to put reality in fiction but in this case people don't seem to understand.In real world their is called M249 saw,It faces the same probelm that all rapid fire weapons face the barrel over heats and metal starts to warp.Which leaves you with 2 choice stop firing or change barrel.Yes that is right sometimes in battle marines and soldiers stop firing and change the barrel.

The guns in Me2 don't have ammo,they have ejectable cooling systems.The system makes perfect sense just as much sense as Marine change a barrel on a saw when start to heat up.

Modifié par Kirabi, 13 mars 2010 - 01:59 .

[TJSolo]

Kirabi wrote...


I hate to put reality in fiction but in this case people don't seem to understand.In real world their is called M249 saw,It faces the same probelm that all rapid fire weapons face the barrel over heats and metal starts to warp.Which leaves you with 2 choice stop firing or change barrel.Yes that is right sometimes in battle marines and soldiers stop firing and change the barrel.

The guns in Me2 don't have ammo,they have ejectable cooling systems.The system makes perfect sense just as much sense as Marine change a barrel on a saw when start to heat up.

But that is one example of one gun in use. Which is not the norm of all guns we have today.
ME went from having guns with 0 thermal clips that only used cooling and in 2 years somehow changed every gun in the galaxy to use thermal clips. Even guns in the terminus systems, crash sites that were isolated for 10 years, and even Collector weapons.

[Kileyan]

TJSolo wrote...

Kirabi wrote...


I hate to put reality in fiction but in this case people don't seem to understand.In real world their is called M249 saw,It faces the same probelm that all rapid fire weapons face the barrel over heats and metal starts to warp.Which leaves you with 2 choice stop firing or change barrel.Yes that is right sometimes in battle marines and soldiers stop firing and change the barrel.

The guns in Me2 don't have ammo,they have ejectable cooling systems.The system makes perfect sense just as much sense as Marine change a barrel on a saw when start to heat up.

But that is one example of one gun in use. Which is not the norm of all guns we have today.
ME went from having guns with 0 thermal clips that only used cooling and in 2 years somehow changed every gun in the galaxy to use thermal clips. Even guns in the terminus systems, crash sites that were isolated for 10 years, and even Collector weapons.

Not to mention the tech has been around since WW1 to cool weapon barrels with something as simple as water. Water wasn't practical though, very heavy, often needed for the soldier themselves, and extra barrels were used.

In ME, we have soldiers with freeze bullets, engi's able to flash freeze 10 human size creatures with some sort of portable heat removing tech. They would use that tech to extend firing life of weapons, not limited use thermal clips.

Lastly, ME guns are made of ceramics not metal barrels, the bullets don't fit tightly into the barrels and cause huge ammounts of friction. They are tiny slivers of metals encased in an energy field and designed to be frictionless. The bullet never touches the barrel. If that energy field was able to keep the barrel a vaccum, there would be no friction and no heat, the only heat ever produced by the gun would be the energy that fired it, again something you'd cool with the cryo tech. If it can flash freeze a dozen soldiers, it is definately a portable cooling system for the individual soldiers weapon.

None of the above matters, they wanted a shooter game, with all the trapping of the dozens of other shooter games, and we have what we have:) I just want more choices in the amounts of ammo I can carry!

[Pocketgb]

loengrim wrote...

just a tought.

is there a mod out there that forces the heat sinks dropped by enemies to be added to your ammo stock instead?

the heat sink idea was fun for the first playthrough but it gets tedious further on.. same as planet scanning.. and the lack of a drivable moon buggy..

I think there's a setting to allow infinite ammo, but you still have to re-load. I've been thinking about trying it, but I appreciate how the ammo clip cap balances (or at least attempts to balance) weapons like the Widowmaker.

[Destructo-Bot]

"Real" soldiers aren't by themselves killing hundreds of enemies at a time. If that was the usual situation you can bet the Army would be issuing extra mags. How many thousands (tens of thousands?) of enemies has Shepard taken down? Your typical US soldier in this day and age will complete his service with never having shot another human being. Stop bringing up "real soldiers" and "real guns", it's patently absurd in this instance.

For a specialist like a sniper to only have 12 rounds is silly. The ammo limits are WAY too low for certain classes. It makes sense for a soldier class to divide his ammo equally (but the player should have an ammo pool he can specify any way he likes) but other classes would FAR and away favor more ammo for certain weapons.... they are even carrying FEWER guns than the soldier class so they could carry MORE AMMO for the guns they do have!

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 13 mars 2010 - 03:08 .

[xDarkicex]

I think if your using cryo Ammo Thermal clips should auto switch to the old over heating method...

[xDarkicex]

loengrim wrote...

just a tought.

is there a mod out there that forces the heat sinks dropped by enemies to be added to your ammo stock instead?

the heat sink idea was fun for the first playthrough but it gets tedious further on.. same as planet scanning.. and the lack of a drivable moon buggy..

you can add 5000 or more shots before a reload in the INI
I dont have my INI file in front of me but its something like, 
Change
inital mag size=20,000

mag size= 5,000
Clips 4

or

Under [SFXGame.SFXWeapon] look for:

AmmoPerShot=1

and change it to

AmmoPerShot=0


Now you have infinite ammo or should in theory

Modifié par xDarkicex, 13 mars 2010 - 03:22 .

[Andorfiend]

My biggest gripe with the ammo system aside from the lore issues is that it does not affect all classes equally.



Engineers, Adepts and Sentinals are all in the same boat, restricted to Heavy and Machine Pistols. They also have the most damaging powers to balance this out.



Soldiers have crap for powers but the Assault rifle gets a metric assload of ammo for some reason, so it's basically the same as not having an ammo system for them.



Infiltrators and Vanguards however are both designed around the use of their pet weapons, and those weapons get fewer shots than if they just used actual frigging bullets and stuffed a pocket with them. So they suffer the most from the ammo system, and it's not like the game is somehow improved by gimping the hybrid classes core gameplay weapons.



In particular I'll note that the ME 2 sniper rifles don't fire any faster than the ME 1 SRs did so there even the lore excuse falls as flat as a high-gravity pancake.

[xDarkicex]

Just change the snipers Damage and Ammo amounts and your good to go

you can change clipsize too if you like so the widow can shoot as many times as you set it befor eyou have to reload changing it to a simi auto its really easy.