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[slyguy07]

LoweGear wrote...

slyguy07 wrote...

It is consequential as it hinders immersion which is imperative in an RPG.

I don't know... I was still totally immersed in Mass Effect 2's story despite the new thermal clip lore. Point is, as far as the argument concerning the ammo system's practicality and usage goes, the lore itself is inconsequential to the argument. Would changing the lore make the ammo system any more practical or useful? Of course not. You would still have only 10 shots for your sniper rifle regardless of whether I write the lore to claim the Geth created thermal clips or the Reapers did, or some God descended from heaven and made it so. Also, as a story element the thermal clips are but a periphery, which hardly changes anything in the overall plot of the Mass Effect universe. One can go an entire game and not even think about why on earth you're using thermal clips unless one is that anal about it.

Lore and Gameplay are interrelated only up to a point - when the gameplay parts take over, the gameplay rules take precedence over anything lore has to say. In lore cutscenes, Shepard and team can take down Krogans with only a few shots from Heavy Pistols (see Garrus' loyalty mission), while Miranda can use lift and throw with nary a cooldown against a defended Asari (see her loyalty mission) and yet in gameplay you need a variety of powers and weapons just to take down a single Krogan or use biotic powers on said Asari; or for an ME1 example, Jenkins getting cut down by Geth Drones in seconds while you as Shepard can tank them easily. Lore is useful for telling a story yes, but it should never come at the expense of gameplay - applying lore to gameplay too strictly would result in an unbalanced and frustrating game.

Perhaps, but the best solution would just be to kill thermal clips and make it ventilate the heat out in the same amount of time it takes to reload a clip and that way they wouldn't "magically" be laying around a collector ship or somewhere that's been out of touch with the galaxy for 10 years. It's such a lame concession to shooter fans imo. I have no problem having so many shots, but using a sorry excuse for ammo I do. 

The ME2 fanboys don't want to let thermal clips go and the people who want to rationally compromise want the systems from ME1 and ME2 to be combined.(see above and it also remedies the codex issue) ME1 fanboys...well I think they want the overheat bar back, but I am not sure. All I know is they don't like thermal clips.

[LoweGear]

I actually support the hybrid system with the ejecting/recooling thermal clips, but apparently Bioware actually implemented this system in an early build of ME2 before it was scrapped for being "too complicated". I can't quote a source on that, but if true they may have found a problem with it.



I'm sure that with enough time and imagination they'll be able to make said hybrid system workable for ME3, however the current ammo as it's implemented in Mass Effect 2 simply adds a lot more dimension to the gameplay, and I would lament its removal from any future sequels.

[Si-Shen]

I can't say I have an issue with this system, I enjoy it more then the original to be honest. It makes me think more tactically and use my rounds carefully rather then blast away endlessly until I hit something.

[slyguy07]

[quote]LoweGear wrote...

I actually support the hybrid system with the ejecting/recooling thermal clips, but apparently Bioware actually implemented this system in an early build of ME2 before it was scrapped for being "too complicated". I can't quote a source on that, but if true they may have found a problem with it.

I'm sure that with enough time and imagination they'll be able to make said hybrid system workable for ME3, however the current ammo as it's implemented in Mass Effect 2 simply adds a lot more dimension to the gameplay, and I would lament its removal from any future sequels. [/quote

Well I think a hybrid would be best to smooth-over the ruggedness of the lame codex explanation. It feels like they just rushed some of the elements that were changed in ME2. I mean they could have come up with a much better reasoning for the thermal clips. I mean heck the average joe could, too. Weapon durability would have been far more logical. Using the thermal clip argument it would be logical to assume they would add as much as 5 years to a weapon's lifespan since a weapon being overheated obviously wouldn't be good for it in any way.

But I digress. A hybrid system should be implemented and the should not worry so much about people being too nitpicky over such a thing. It really is an immersion killer for me. I think a part of the problem is those who read the novels or have read them rather have a better understanding of the ME universe generally and that may be why for me. I don't know. What I do know is it was too much of a move torwards the shooter genre. To change it to the hybrid system wouldn't mess the pace up at all. Nor would it make any other weapon class useless except for in the case of the soldier whom would probably only use two weapons - the AR and SR. People did that in ME2 anyway though. Some used the SG, but I imagine many just kept their trusty Revenant out.

Anyhow I pray that they do the hybrid system and make a decent inventory that's not so clumsy. Fix the biotic and tech powers to where so many aren't useless and presto! All of the game's gameplay issues would be solved aside from the spirit of exploration that is missing from the first ME.

[Joshua_Muerte]

I dont get why people have a prolem with ammo in this game its not lke it ever has a shortage of ammo unless your shooting 50+ rounds at random things like the sky or everytime you see a rock you will be able to make it throught just about any mission. the thing ought breakng emersion do to ammo clips being left about makes no sense to me eeing as how there would be some left about for various reasons depending on the location most space staton are going to have some form of guard or military force are they not as far a planets go you are not going to send a landing party down armed with just thimbles and armor made of paper towels are you to a non civilized planet, for inhabited planets once again most are going to have some form of military or law enforcement personel who either dropped or left some about. (think bout how many times you've dropped something or put something down and walked off forgeting about it)

[rabbitchannel]

mrfoo1 wrote...

rab****annel wrote...

mrfoo1 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...
If you mean the explanation that is given in ME?

Geth adaptation
It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in
performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically
reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic
barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins.
Combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste
heat or pause as their weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable
heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers
were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained
soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with
superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead
and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.


cited:Mass Effect wiki taken from the codex

If that's the expl. that rabbit is refering to then sure why not. I dislike that explanation; as well as most of the ones given in the codex's for ME1/ME2. They seem a little lazy.

I explained it in a previous post in this same thread.

I was hoping it wasn't the post on page 2.

And? It essentially leads to the same conclusion as TJ's did. That it removes the pause in gameplay resulting from overheating and cooldown. Really, why do you post at all if you don't have anything to say? You give no reasons for your opinions other than "they're a little lazy" which is lazy itself. That post was obviously the explanation I was referring to. 

[Kirabi]

Are people really questioning why a biotic or tech enhanced soldiers don't need to carry alot of thermal clips?

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

slyguy07 wrote...

It is consequential as it hinders immersion which is imperative in an RPG.

Yeah tell me about it. Every time I pick up an item and it's just a magic hand-waving with omni tool, or when I hold left-shift and freeze the very essence of time itself while my Shep can still turn and aim, my immersion takes a nosedive...

[Don Moar]

Hey,



I think this thread has gone on long enough.



If anyone wishes to restart this discussion, please select a more constructive title (e.g. "ways to improve combat", or "why I don't like the ammo system", etc.)



Everyone is free to discuss what they like and don't like about our games on our forums but do it with respect, please.



Thanks!





Don M