188 réponses à ce sujet

[RAIDENKUN]

@ mrfoo1

$60/100 hours played=$0.60

I'm not a mathematician but I think the idea is that game length in hours determines the price. Therefore how long Kasumi is available, used, whatever the case may be, is irrelevant. It's really more of a fraction than a formula. $60/100 hours = $x/y hour(s)

I'm not addressing the math of it again. It's really not pertinent to the integrity of the arguments. I'm sure each one of us in this discussion can concoct a formula to prove our point. I'm just reducing it to a simply rational argument.

[Cadarin]

WilliamShatner wrote...

DLC should be free and used to reward fans. Case in point what Valve has been doing for the past 12 years. Is there any other company with as much fan and industry respect as Valve? They've completely retooled the engine of their games a number of times, which I imagine is a significant workload, probably more than creating a couple of mission, and given the new version to fans for free.

Valve has just as many haters on their forums as Bioware does on this one.  The idea of respect is pretty much meaningless to idiots on the internet.  The truth is that giving away their work for free doesn't pay the bills, and even when they choose too, ****s on the internet continue to **** and moan about it. 

It must be hard for the people at Bioware to keep from turning completely jaded toward their entire fanbase.  Hell, I feel embarassed to be in lumped into the same category as most of the people on this site.  If I worked for Bioware I'd probably release a bunch of shovelware just as a big FU, then cash in my chips and buy an island somewhere.  

Instead, I've noticed a major improvement in the direction they're taking with their DLC.  If they continue to release a few free ones every month or two, I'll be willing to pay for one occasionally.  I just don't like feeling like I'm being nickle and dimed, which was the case with previous games and DLC. 

[Thompson family]

Michael Gamble wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

She wasn't removed from the game. She was planned as a DLC - she has been planned as such for a long time. They developed the finished game around that, to ensure that she fits in flawlessly. That's why she's got little bits of code related to her character on the game disc
.
She wasn't finished when the game shipped though. Again, she was planned, from the beginning, to be a DLC character.

Finally, someone gets it. Neither Zaeed or Kasumi were finished in time for the main game- not nearly, in fact. Months since the game went gold were spent on their development. In fact, we only put in the framework which was needed in the game to support them later. We're very much aware of what the "hackers" were able to find in the PC game, and completely expected these bits to be found.

Speculate all you want, but believe me - we monitor these forums. The basis for this thread (the claim that dlc was pulled from disc to be shipped/sold later) - is incorrect.

Thanks again. We appreciate the feedback.

IMHO, you've gone the right way with this. Not only does it add value to the franchise and permit more flexibility, it might encourage risk taking. It's creative, or at least it encourages creativity.

Also, as a way of rewarding customers and annoying pirates, it ranks high.

[TJSolo]

Thompson family wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

She wasn't removed from the game. She was planned as a DLC - she has been planned as such for a long time. They developed the finished game around that, to ensure that she fits in flawlessly. That's why she's got little bits of code related to her character on the game disc
.
She wasn't finished when the game shipped though. Again, she was planned, from the beginning, to be a DLC character.

Finally, someone gets it. Neither Zaeed or Kasumi were finished in time for the main game- not nearly, in fact. Months since the game went gold were spent on their development. In fact, we only put in the framework which was needed in the game to support them later. We're very much aware of what the "hackers" were able to find in the PC game, and completely expected these bits to be found.

Speculate all you want, but believe me - we monitor these forums. The basis for this thread (the claim that dlc was pulled from disc to be shipped/sold later) - is incorrect.

Thanks again. We appreciate the feedback.

IMHO, you've gone the right way with this. Not only does it add value to the franchise and permit more flexibility, it might encourage risk taking. It's creative, or at least it encourages creativity.

Also, as a way of rewarding customers and annoying pirates, it ranks high.

I would call it annoying all the way around. Also pirates don't care.

[Thompson family]

Cadarin wrote...

The idea of respect is pretty much meaningless to idiots on the internet.  The truth is that giving away their work for free doesn't pay the bills, and even when they choose too, ****s on the internet continue to **** and moan about it. 
 

That's so sad, mainly because it's so true.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I still can't fathom how Kasumi gets rid of Zaeed once downloaded. I've tried asking in a different thread, but no luck.

[TJSolo]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I still can't fathom how Kasumi gets rid of Zaeed once downloaded. I've tried asking in a different thread, but no luck.

There is no getting rid of Zaeed.
Kasumis room is on the Crew's Quarters, a room that is still locked and on the character select screen she will be on the far right next to Jack.

[Fiery Phoenix]

^ Cool! Thanks for explaining! Glad I was wrong.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Zaeed should have had a romance plot with his DLC. Heck he's on every mission, might as well.... (female Shepard)... The scar is sexy.



I've been playing Bioware stuff since Baldur's Gate. ME2 is a great game.



Oh, I'd like some DLC with an upgrade so you don't have to hold the left trigger while you survey planets, along with an option to pick your radio station while you're doing it.... Radio Tuchanka, Radio Omega, Radio Earth, Radio Illium, Radio Free Geth.. something with some life in it so I don't fall asleep during the surveys. I'd go 300 MS points for it. 600 points with the radio: 10 songs/station.

[PwrGetter]

This thread can really be summed up quite shortly.

A.) OP is ignorant - and this is not an insult. Posting such a defamatory claim without proof or source is absolutely insulting to the developement team. I work as a software engineer at a hospital (logging patient records in our computerized patient record system), and if we held our software back just to add everything we WANTED to put in our program INITIALLY, the damned program would NEVER be released.

1. Set a goal for whats feasibly possible within a budget, and within a time frame.

2. In order for BioWare to release the game on schedule, they can't say; "OH WAIT TEAM, LETS DELAY THE GAME A BIT SO WE CAN ADD ANOTHER SQUADY". >>>> fast forward 1 month, "OH WAIT TEAM, LETS DELAY THE GAME SO WE CAN ADD A FEW MORE MISSIONS AND WEAPONS". If people got all of whats coming out soon, and in the future, we wouldn't be having this argument, instead, another ignorant poster will make thread saying; "BioWare doesn't care about it's fans, the game will be /fail like Duke Nukem".

B.) The mob is king. Person "A" says "RAWR IM MAD", person "B" says "I'M MORE MATURE THAN PERSON A, SO I WONT ATTACH AN INSULT WITH MY STATEMENT BUT... RAWR IM MAD TOO".

I'm all for free speech and voicing ones opinion, but when someone makes a thread in the attempt to make it seem as if was fact, it's quite upsetting.

Modifié par PwrGetter, 13 mars 2010 - 05:51 .

[CatatonicMan]

mrfoo1 wrote...

It is relevant unfortunatly. Video games like other purchased visual media have a replay value that is affixed into the intial cost's. And any new content added is and should be placed under that same structure. It may have taken me awhile to remember the formula I was trained to use to determine product prices and by no means is it the one used by Bioware, but it was the standard affixed price formula. My point was that the value of the content is related to the availablility of the content to be played exponentially not to get into a math arguement. And that 6$ is an acceptable standard of value for additional content. 

$6 may be acceptable to some, but it isn't to me.

Many people have a tendency to downplay spending money below a certain threshold, which is why the micro-transaction model is becoming increasingly popular.

It's a very profitable and cheap way of getting too much dosh for too little product.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 13 mars 2010 - 05:52 .

[hex23]

TJSolo wrote...

Their 60-90min estimate is just an estimate. If you played their other DLC with like estimates, the actual play time would be 30-45min.

There is no reason to try and insult someone over a price they are unwilling to pay. The cost for DLC could be more and people could still technically be able to afford $20 or more but it isn't reasonable. 
This is just the first installment of pay2play DLC and EA Bioware is looking to set a precedent with pricing.
I would rather make it known now that the price needs to be reasonable rather than EA Bioware setting a higher price to see how high they can charge.

There is no reason to try and insult someone over a price they are willing to pay, either.

The guy I quoted insinuated that anybody who doesn't mind paying for DLC isn't paying for it, because mom/dad/whoever is.

What I stated is the flip side of the coin. If $5 is worth sitting on the internet posting multiple paragraphs, creating conspiracy theories where the content was cut and blah blah blah....it's dumb. We have no idea what the cost of the DLC is, and the game is popular enough that a few people not buying it, or a few people complaining on a message board, won't dictate it's price. Bioware/EA/whoever probably had the DLC content prices decided since the game shipped. These aren't the type of business decisions that are molded by a few forum regulars.

[lovely jubley]

Cluck Norris wrote...

-Squad-mate that was cut from the game so you have to download it. Not only that, he was the crapiest squad-mate of them all.
-Crappy collection mission
-New shotgun, and heavy weapon (yawn)
-Armor that was good. Wow, great job, Bioware! You were able to reskin the inferno armor and program in some strengths
-Crappy vehicle (yawn)

And now the thing that everyone expected form cerberus network, the character that was cut from the game (seen on the PC version) is now something we have to pay for.

You can't spell Bioware without EA.

And the worst part is, all the pirates get all this content for free.

Nice going.

If it weren't for your name I would flame your ass.

[RAIDENKUN]

PwrGetter wrote...

This thread can really be summed up quite shortly.

A.) OP is ignorant - and this is not an insult. Posting such a defamatory claim without proof or source is absolutely insulting to the developement team. I work as a software engineer at a hospital (logging patient records in our computerized patient record system), and if we held our software back just to add everything we WANTED to put in our program INITIALLY, the damned program would NEVER be released.

1. Set a goal for whats feasibly possible within a budget, and within a time frame.

2. In order for BioWare to release the game on schedule, they can't say; "OH WAIT TEAM, LETS DELAY THE GAME A BIT SO WE CAN ADD ANOTHER SQUADY". >>>> fast forward 1 month, "OH WAIT TEAM, LETS DELAY THE GAME SO WE CAN ADD A FEW MORE MISSIONS AND WEAPONS". If people got all of whats coming out soon, and in the future, we wouldn't be having this argument, instead, another ignorant poster will make thread saying; "BioWare doesn't care about it's fans, the game will be /fail like Duke Nukem".

B.) The mob is king. Person "A" says "RAWR IM MAD", person "B" says "I'M MORE MATURE THAN PERSON A, SO I WONT ATTACH AN INSULT WITH MY STATEMENT BUT... RAWR IM MAD TOO".

I'm all for free speech and voicing ones opinion, but when someone makes a thread in the attempt to make it seem as if was fact, it's quite upsetting.

Though this thread did begin on the pretense of simply spawning discontent, I do believe that it has progressed to a more rational and consequential argument (or rather collection of arguments). Discussion ranges everywhere from Kasumi's DLC, acceptable pricing of DLC, the obligations of Bioware and Cerberus Network, and a variety of other topics as well. The point is, a fair number of ME2 owners are upset with the current (and potentially future) arrangement of DLC and its associated downloading systems. To dismiss any single dissenter or the entirety of this thread as ignorant, inconsequential, or immature is to deny that ME2 has room for improvement. I don't think anybody disagrees with that.
Second of all, the reason many are currently upset is because the Kasumi DLC is set to be priced. Based on the E3 09 revelation of 12 squadmates and the Hammerhead, it was expected that all of these items would ship with the game. Now we're being told that we have to wait for the Hammerhead (though in all honesty it shouldn't be much longer) and pay for the twelfth squadmate. I consider that to be unacceptable. I think many others agree with that as well.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Seeing this thread, it's like this is the first time anybody's asked to pay for a DLC. This is something any real XBL user should be well used to by now, no matter what. I realize your concern and all, but really, Kasumi is no different than any other DLC out there.

[RAIDENKUN]

CatatonicMan wrote...

mrfoo1 wrote...

It is relevant unfortunatly. Video games like other purchased visual media have a replay value that is affixed into the intial cost's. And any new content added is and should be placed under that same structure. It may have taken me awhile to remember the formula I was trained to use to determine product prices and by no means is it the one used by Bioware, but it was the standard affixed price formula. My point was that the value of the content is related to the availablility of the content to be played exponentially not to get into a math arguement. And that 6$ is an acceptable standard of value for additional content. 

$6 may be acceptable to some, but it isn't to me.

Many people have a tendency to downplay spending money below a certain threshold, which is why the micro-transaction model is becoming increasingly popular.

It's a very profitable and cheap way of getting too much dosh for too little product.

And that's exactly it. The cost has never been the issue. Anybody who can shell out $60 for ME2 can shell out five more for DLC. I'm as unwilling to spend $5 for it as I am a penny. The issue at hand remains that charging money for a 1 hour DLC is wrong. I'll likely end up buying it, and I'm glad to support Bioware if anybody. But regardless of the game's developer, type, whatever, it's simply a practice that should end. This is especially so given that the Cerberus Network was supposed to preclude paying for these types of micro-transactions in the first place.

[Weiser_Cain]

WilliamShatner wrote...

DLC should be free and used to reward fans. Case in point what Valve has been doing for the past 12 years. Is there any other company with as much fan and industry respect as Valve?

Well I use to like bioware...

Modifié par Weiser_Cain, 13 mars 2010 - 06:26 .

[EternalWolfe]

RAIDENKUN wrote...

CatatonicMan wrote...

mrfoo1 wrote...

It is relevant unfortunatly. Video games like other purchased visual media have a replay value that is affixed into the intial cost's. And any new content added is and should be placed under that same structure. It may have taken me awhile to remember the formula I was trained to use to determine product prices and by no means is it the one used by Bioware, but it was the standard affixed price formula. My point was that the value of the content is related to the availablility of the content to be played exponentially not to get into a math arguement. And that 6$ is an acceptable standard of value for additional content. 

$6 may be acceptable to some, but it isn't to me.

Many people have a tendency to downplay spending money below a certain threshold, which is why the micro-transaction model is becoming increasingly popular.

It's a very profitable and cheap way of getting too much dosh for too little product.

And that's exactly it. The cost has never been the issue. Anybody who can shell out $60 for ME2 can shell out five more for DLC. I'm as unwilling to spend $5 for it as I am a penny. The issue at hand remains that charging money for a 1 hour DLC is wrong. I'll likely end up buying it, and I'm glad to support Bioware if anybody. But regardless of the game's developer, type, whatever, it's simply a practice that should end. This is especially so given that the Cerberus Network was supposed to preclude paying for these types of micro-transactions in the first place.

These two don't go together.  If something is supported(ie if enough people buy DLC and keep buying DLC), it will continue to happen(ie companies will continue to make and sell DLCs).

For instance, look at the Xbox Live Gold, which you need to play multiplayer.  On the console, people keep paying, people keep supporting it, so it stays.  They tried to stick it onto PC players as well - and we all saw how well that went.

I have no problem with the idea of DLCs in and of themselves, they have good potential - and they have potential for misuse.  Its up to consumers to decide whether something is supported, and that is done best with ones wallets.

[TJSolo]

hex23 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Their 60-90min estimate is just an estimate. If you played their other DLC with like estimates, the actual play time would be 30-45min.

There is no reason to try and insult someone over a price they are unwilling to pay. The cost for DLC could be more and people could still technically be able to afford $20 or more but it isn't reasonable. 
This is just the first installment of pay2play DLC and EA Bioware is looking to set a precedent with pricing.
I would rather make it known now that the price needs to be reasonable rather than EA Bioware setting a higher price to see how high they can charge.

There is no reason to try and insult someone over a price they are willing to pay, either.

The guy I quoted insinuated that anybody who doesn't mind paying for DLC isn't paying for it, because mom/dad/whoever is.

What I stated is the flip side of the coin. If $5 is worth sitting on the internet posting multiple paragraphs, creating conspiracy theories where the content was cut and blah blah blah....it's dumb. We have no idea what the cost of the DLC is, and the game is popular enough that a few people not buying it, or a few people complaining on a message board, won't dictate it's price. Bioware/EA/whoever probably had the DLC content prices decided since the game shipped. These aren't the type of business decisions that are molded by a few forum regulars.

Well it is a conversation and preparation for what EA Bioware will do with the Project 10 and pay2play DLC.
I am no saying forum regulars will set or dictate prices but forum regulars are still customers and consumers.
Consumers are still a factor when EA sets prices.

Content was cut, admittedly be a BW employee in this thread.  The plan was for Shepard to have a dirty dozen squad, information from the project director across serveral tradeshows.
What is and what is not now can not be determined as EA Bioware has a conflict of interest and will not admit to anything that could negatively effect sales.

Pleading popularity of ME2 doesn't mean the DLC will meet the same sales.
I don't know how many of the people will buy the DLC regardless of the prices and content level.

I don't feel like being a Horse Armoried every 2 months.

[LoweGear]

Most everything that has been said has been said, but i'd just like to point out something...



In just two months after release, Bioware has how many new DLC for Mass Effect 2?



- Zaeed

- Normandy Crash Pack

- Cerberus Assault Armor

- Eviscerator Shotgun

- Hammerhead hovertank + accompanying missions



That is only within two months, and for free through the Cerberus Network without me having to pay an extra cent. For most games I've played, it'll be nearly 6 months - 1 Year or more to get new content via paid expansion packs, sometimes overpriced to the point of absurdity. Paying $5 more for new content coming out within 3 months of release seems like a good bargain to me, given how fast Bioware's been releasing stuff.

[RAIDENKUN]

@EternalWolfe

That's the cruel irony of the entire system. We gamers (especially the 360 gamers) are at the mercy of the layers of corporate interplay that are progressively controlling gaming. I thought the Cerberus Network would help some. Instead it's just another layer.

I pony up $60 a year for XBL Gold. If I stop, so what? There are millions more who will keep their membership in order to play Halo 3 or Modern Warfare, or whatever their game may be. It's the same thing for this (and every other, for that matter) DLC. Even if I don't buy it enough people will that it won't enact any change in the company, much less the industry. So I'll capitulate eventually and spend $5 for the DLC. I'm no martyr, I haven't claimed to be from the start. I'm just trying to point out that the powers that be have us by the short hairs. At least PC gamers have the option of pirating and modding (although admittedly I'm not sure what degree of modding there is for ME2, at least compared to something like Oblivion).

[enhaR907]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

That Kasumi is pay content is absolutely disgusting. Did I or did I not buy this game already?

Then don't buy her. Be content with what you have.