188 réponses à ce sujet

[EternalWolfe]

RAIDENKUN wrote...

@EternalWolfe
That's the cruel irony of the entire system. We gamers (especially the 360 gamers) are at the mercy of the layers of corporate interplay that are progressively controlling gaming. I thought the Cerberus Network would help some. Instead it's just another layer.
I pony up $60 a year for XBL Gold. If I stop, so what? There are millions more who will keep their membership in order to play Halo 3 or Modern Warfare, or whatever their game may be. It's the same thing for this (and every other, for that matter) DLC. Even if I don't buy it enough people will that it won't enact any change in the company, much less the industry. So I'll capitulate eventually and spend $5 for the DLC. I'm no martyr, I haven't claimed to be from the start. I'm just trying to point out that the powers that be have us by the short hairs. At least PC gamers have the option of pirating and modding (although admittedly I'm not sure what degree of modding there is for ME2, at least compared to something like Oblivion).

*sigh* trust me, I know.  I've had this arguement with so many people.  But, yeah, basically, you're right - its not something that one or a few hundred are going to change - the PC players had a huge portion of theirs against it, enough to make it problematic, we do not.  I personally refused to pay for Gold, but then again, I also have a PS3 now, which, for the moment at least, is free online play.

As for DLC, I also understand on that - I buy my share.  Personally, i don't mind DLC, I understand its uses and reasoning - for instance, would you rather pay for some good entertainment or not have it all?  I just hold my line at quality vs price, and decideing whether its worth the price.  But, again, one man won't make a difference(differing opinion in worth don't help much either), and I don't hold others to my expectations.  I just put my piece out there and continue on dealing with what comes.  I'm no martyr, no leader, no one that's going to change things in the end.

As for PC gamers - I refuse to pirate, but that's a moral thing for me, I'm just not willing to steal.  If its not worth the money, then its probably not worth playing to me. 

My game is for 360(since I dont' have a decent gaming computer atm, and my job's not in a stable enough position I'm willing to spend the money yet), but I wish every PC game came with a toolset.  I think I had more fun with the toolset then playing Morrowind.

Modifié par EternalWolfe, 13 mars 2010 - 07:21 .

[Llandaryn]

Cluck Norris wrote...

-Squad-mate that was cut from the game so you have to download it. Not only that, he was the crapiest squad-mate of them all.
-Crappy collection mission
-New shotgun, and heavy weapon (yawn)
-Armor that was good. Wow, great job, Bioware! You were able to reskin the inferno armor and program in some strengths
-Crappy vehicle (yawn)

And now the thing that everyone expected form cerberus network, the character that was cut from the game (seen on the PC version) is now something we have to pay for.

You can't spell Bioware without EA.

And the worst part is, all the pirates get all this content for free.

Nice going.

Yeah, it really sucks how Bioware forced you to log on to the Cerberus Network and download all their material, and then play with it in your game. It's like we don't even have freedom of choice anymore.

[Tazzmission]

LoweGear wrote...

Most everything that has been said has been said, but i'd just like to point out something...

In just two months after release, Bioware has how many new DLC for Mass Effect 2?

- Zaeed
- Normandy Crash Pack
- Cerberus Assault Armor
- Eviscerator Shotgun
- Hammerhead hovertank + accompanying missions

That is only within two months, and for free through the Cerberus Network without me having to pay an extra cent. For most games I've played, it'll be nearly 6 months - 1 Year or more to get new content via paid expansion packs, sometimes overpriced to the point of absurdity. Paying $5 more for new content coming out within 3 months of release seems like a good bargain to me, given how fast Bioware's been releasing stuff.

i hear you on that and plus dont forget alot of fans were upset that the first game didnt get much dlc and now within 2 months we got all this free cool dlc and ppl still complain. i already have kasumi planned to be downloaded regardless if its a 5 to 10 dollar fee or free

[RobbertDewulf]

Cluck Norris wrote...

-Squad-mate that was cut from the game so you have to download it. Not only that, he was the crapiest squad-mate of them all.
-Crappy collection mission
-New shotgun, and heavy weapon (yawn)
-Armor that was good. Wow, great job, Bioware! You were able to reskin the inferno armor and program in some strengths
-Crappy vehicle (yawn)

And now the thing that everyone expected form cerberus network, the character that was cut from the game (seen on the PC version) is now something we have to pay for.

You can't spell Bioware without EA.

And the worst part is, all the pirates get all this content for free.

Nice going.

Such a sad kid.

[Nolenthar]

Cerberus network is, IMO, a pretty good move.

I'm not talking for 360 players who have to pay a XBL account (but that's not on Bioware's hand, it's more Microsoft they should complain to).

It's a giver/giver mentality. You have Cerberus Network, you have content for free. I will never complain about content for free.



As for the Kasumi DLC. Stop saying Kasumi's already there just because there is her name and a few things related to her in the game. If Kasumi was already there, then, you can be sure some talented PC players would already have found everything and released it for free.

But it's not ready yet. We don't have missions, we don't even have the proper model.

[Gaddmeister]

Nolenthar wrote...

Cerberus network is, IMO, a pretty good move.
I'm not talking for 360 players who have to pay a XBL account (but that's not on Bioware's hand, it's more Microsoft they should complain to).

You only need a XBL gold subscription for online gaming. A free silver account is enough to access the marketplace and download stuff, e.g. the Cerberus Network.

[Dethateer]

Kasumi is a female version of Zaeed (even her loyalty power is a grenade, though a blinding one). How long until we get "cheap" N7 armor part packs?



By the way, the Hammerhead (obviously) wasn't finished either by the time the game was released. Am I to understand that it wasn't cut from the game either, just developed separately despite being announced as a Mako replacement and having in-game controls already modifiable?

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Cerberus Network is a complete success.

-Squad-mate that wasn't mentioned much in the months before release, so he came as a complete, pleasant surprise. Not only that, he was one of the best, most useful and badass squadmates of them all.
-Awesome Normandy mission, tying this game and the first one together.
-New badass weapons
-Awesome new armour
-Terrific new vehicle.

And now the thing everybody has been waiting for, the character that wasn't finished yet when the game came out, is going to be available!

You can't spell Bioware without EA. EA made Bioware a lot better, they actually release more content now, the game has improved over the first one beyond belief, and there is yet more DLC to come. I LOVE IT.

And the best part is, this is actually dissuading people from piracy. Finally a game worth paying for.

Nice going!

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Dethateer wrote...

No, I would have rather they released her for free, since, y'know, it's cut content from a game we already payed for. Like Zaeed and the Hammerhead. And the Collector AR along with the Blackstorm.

No it's not, you goddamned idiot. If it had been cut content, do you really think they would wait 3 months to release her? Yeah, that makes sense from a marketing perspective, cutting stuff from a game and releasing it months later when the buzz and initial sales spike has died down, and fewer people have an interest in the game.

WAAH WAAH I WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE!

Go live in North Korea, then. We live in a capitalist society, produced goods cost money, deal with it.

[hawat333]

This topic is a complete failure.



The real content-DLCs are just coming.

The HammerHead, Kasumi, and yeah, Zaeed too.

On the other hand, I agree that 1st, the squadmates should have been already in the game. If you plan to make a DLC, make it additional content, bonus missions, whatever, but not core characters, that's not fair. But hey, only one of them is a paid DLC, so it's ok. But don't tell me that Kasumi and Zaeed wasn't planned to be part of the core game. She was cut so she could be added. Or because of the development time. The same goes for HammerHead. But again, two out of this three are free. So it's almost fair.

As for the weapons, they are just little bonuses, don't look at them as full-fletched DLCs.

[Dethateer]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

No, I would have rather they released her for free, since, y'know, it's cut content from a game we already payed for. Like Zaeed and the Hammerhead. And the Collector AR along with the Blackstorm.

No it's not, you goddamned idiot. If it had been cut content, do you really think they would wait 3 months to release her? Yeah, that makes sense from a marketing perspective, cutting stuff from a game and releasing it months later when the buzz and initial sales spike has died down, and fewer people have an interest in the game.

WAAH WAAH I WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE!

Go live in North Korea, then. We live in a capitalist society, produced goods cost money, deal with it.

A. You have no idea where I live. I could already be in NK.
B. To quote a friend: "capitalism sucks".
C. Can you prove it's not cut content?

As mr. Gamble already said, she wasn't ready at the game's launch. But neither were Zaeed or the Hammerhead.

Modifié par Dethateer, 13 mars 2010 - 11:56 .

[Gaddmeister]

Dethateer wrote...
C. Can you prove it's not cut content?

And what does it matter if it was cut? Bioware decides how much content they will provide for $60. Normally a company would provide a product and put a price tag on it afterwards, but in the world of gaming it seems to work the other way around.

[Dethateer]

It matters because if she was cut, she was cut to be sold later. You don't see anything wrong with that?

[Gaddmeister]

Dethateer wrote...

It matters because if she was cut, she was cut to be sold later. You don't see anything wrong with that?

No, since Bioware/EA practically can't choose their own price tag on their own product. So they need to adapt their production cost to the $60 price tag. It's a company, they want to make money. Is it that hard to get? If you don't think the product is worth what it costs, then don't buy it. That's what I usually do.

[LoweGear]

Except that there's no evidence she was cut, only that the content that was already available for her (the voicefiles and placeholder) was put in game as is, and no one has any more concrete evidence to support the "Kasumi was cut" theory. In the first place, stating that Kasumi was "cut" from the game would imply that Kasumi was already a complete game fixture that was 100% available and then removed, when it has been stated that the majority of the content for Kasumi wasn't even finished yet. While objective-minded people would not put Bioware's word as bible, they do have more credibility being the ones who created the game than those of us who can only speculate as to the reason Kasumi was not included in game.

[spacehamsterZH]

Gaddmeister wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

It matters because if she was cut, she was cut to be sold later. You don't see anything wrong with that?

No, since Bioware/EA practically can't choose their own price tag on their own product. So they need to adapt their production cost to the $60 price tag. It's a company, they want to make money. Is it that hard to get? If you don't think the product is worth what it costs, then don't buy it. That's what I usually do.

Yep. I can see how people would see it as a a bit fishy that something that already existed when the game was released was intentionally held back to charge money for it later, but the bottom line is, devs/publishers decide how much content they're willing to sell you for the price of a full game, and if you think what's in the package isn't enough, don't buy it. I actually like the idea that whatever DLC comes out was developed at the same time as the game (as long as the stock version of the game doesn't feel gutted, which I don't think ME2 does) because it means the DLC will work as a part of the game and not seem tacked on.

[Severyx]

I have to disagree with the OP here. So far the content that has been released has come out with surprising frequency, so for one I wouldn't expect to have massive releases every other week. These things take time to code and perfect, and honestly I have to say that I'm pleased with how they've kept up with CN DLC releases so far, even if the items are 'cut content' like a lot of people seem to think they know about. And even still, I find the little things we're getting fun, save lacking the ability to remove helmets on new armors...

Yes, I do believe that all content originally planned for the release of the game should be free at the CN level, including Kasumi. My reasoning on this is that the majority of the work was already done by the time the game was released, barring polishing and touch-ups, so why must we pay for something that required comparatively little work to complete? On the flipside, if the character truly was a planned DLC (I have not had the chance to confirm this myself), then this entire thread is, well, moot since some people just didn't do their homework and wanted to rage somewhere.

Besides.

Zaeed is the new Chuck Norris. You can't beat that for free.

Modifié par Severyx, 13 mars 2010 - 12:33 .

[DarthKaldriss]

Cluck Norris wrote...

-Squad-mate that was cut from the game so you have to download it. Not only that, he was the crapiest squad-mate of them all.
-Crappy collection mission
-New shotgun, and heavy weapon (yawn)
-Armor that was good. Wow, great job, Bioware! You were able to reskin the inferno armor and program in some strengths
-Crappy vehicle (yawn)

And now the thing that everyone expected form cerberus network, the character that was cut from the game (seen on the PC version) is now something we have to pay for.

You can't spell Bioware without EA.

And the worst part is, all the pirates get all this content for free.

Nice going.

               Odd I thought Zaeed was actually a rather good character. But still opinions are like a**eholes everyones got one.

[OneBadAssMother]

I shut down my internet (using AMD fusion) for gameplay in ME2. Hence no DLCs. I dont like having online connection on my PC while I'm not using it (In Australia we have harsh download limits)

In the end, I supported an indie game once made by Taleworlds. It had very little anti-piracy. But fans were fanatical. If you are a pirate of that game you are stealing from a poor kid. This anti-piracy measure made by EA does not reduce the piracy of the game, in fact, it encourages it.

You don't stop pirates by all these "protections" that they can just bypass. You can at least minimise it by not punishing your legitimate customers for the actions we are NOT responsible for. Heck... I don't want to come home from work one day, find out that my ISP is down, and not even be able to resume my freakin' game cause "unable to authorise DLC cause you do not have 24/7 internet access" !!!!

[Selvec_Darkon]

Paying for anything that was originally cut sucks.

No way about it I'm afraid.

And before anyone says "they provided what you got for $60". No they didn't. I got the xbox360 version. I payed 130NZD for it because of how inflated prices of games are here, and the content I got was very much less then the PC version. So I reserve the right to feel crotch shotted.

Modifié par Selvec_Darkon, 13 mars 2010 - 12:53 .

[Gaddmeister]

You got less content than the pc version?

[Dethateer]

He's talking about mods. But that's valid for ANY game, not just Mass Effect.

Modifié par Dethateer, 13 mars 2010 - 01:02 .

[CatatonicMan]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

I shut down my internet (using AMD fusion) for gameplay in ME2. Hence no DLCs. I dont like having online connection on my PC while I'm not using it (In Australia we have harsh download limits)

In the end, I supported an indie game once made by Taleworlds. It had very little anti-piracy. But fans were fanatical. If you are a pirate of that game you are stealing from a poor kid. This anti-piracy measure made by EA does not reduce the piracy of the game, in fact, it encourages it.

You don't stop pirates by all these "protections" that they can just bypass. You can at least minimise it by not punishing your legitimate customers for the actions we are NOT responsible for. Heck... I don't want to come home from work one day, find out that my ISP is down, and not even be able to resume my freakin' game cause "unable to authorise DLC cause you do not have 24/7 internet access" !!!!

Only the most onerous DRM is going to actually encourage normal players to pirate a game (though in your situation, it does sound like the DRM is getting onerous). As long as the DRM isn't intrusive, people will generally buy the game if they were going to buy it (or steal it if they were not).

Most DLC is designed to reduce/prevent piracy in the first week or two after a launch; it helps keep honest people honest.