37 réponses à ce sujet

[Moogliepie]

So I just don't get the whole Jory killing thing. I mean honestly, he had a wife (and I think kids!) and Duncan knew this. I understand the Grey Wardens have a practice of forced recruitment, but honestly, wouldn't this cause loyalty issues?  

[sylvanaerie]

If you ask him Duncan explains Jory left him no choice when he pulled his blade. I get the feeling Duncan would have done it anyway though. Jory's whole rose colored glasses approach to the Gray Wardens was doomed from the get go. How he got past Duncan's screening I have no clue.

[Andorfiend]

Given that he drew his blade while backing away it seemed pretty clear to me that Jory just wanted to escape. Duncan is pretty much an ass in that scene. Indeed I have a whole thread devoted to how stupid the wardens policy of secrecy is here.

[WingsandRings]

I don't think he should have brought Jory in the first place. Uncool...husband to a pregnant wife. It makes it harder for me to like Duncan.

[chaosapiant]

Grey Wardens' need all the help they can get, and Jory was a decent knight, so it made sense that Duncan would hire him. Besides the "real" screening IS the joining.

[Thalorin1919]

My opinion didnt change of him. Jory was a big moron from the start - yes, he did have a pregnant wife, but still...



I mean, there are reasons Duncan killed him. For one Jory drew his blade, and struck at Duncan first. Plus - Duncan probably didnt want Jory running around saying how Grey Wardens make you drink darkspawn blood and that it can kill you.



Plus the Grey Wardens are not a order of white knights. They kill darkspawn and end blights, they do what they have to do. Jory wouldnt cut it, he was going to flee, Duncan shanked his ass.

[Giltspur]

Yeah, you're free to think the Wardens aren't perfect. While they make sacrifices and do some good things, they've made their compromises, and I don't agree with all of them.

I believe Duncan's reasoning is basically that Jory, his wife and kid are irrelevant compared to the importance of keeping the Warden secrets. He believes the Wardens are the only thing that can stop the blight. So if he has to crush a family here and there in the name of the greater good, then he'll do it. He won't take the risk that Jory will run away and tell people about the Joining. I mean, it's not like it's a total secret. But it would be much less of a secret if people could just back out.

Modifié par Giltspur, 13 mars 2010 - 03:44 .

[Les Polar]

It's a secret ritual,Daveth drank the blood and die,Jory didn't want to finish the ritual which had already started so Duncan did what he had to do for the preservation of the ritual secrecy,either way Jory was doom.....

[Janni-in-VA]

If you talk to Duncan anytime before the Joining begins and ask him about what happens if you're not sure you want to go through with it, he'll tell you it's too late to back out now. When he sends you into the Wilds to collect the blood, he makes it clear that the search is part of your Joining. I'm sorry that Jory's pregnant wife was left a widow, but he drew first. For what it's worth, I do believe Duncan is sincere when he says, "I'm sorry." The Wardens do, indeed, "...pay a heavy price to become what we are."

[Sannox]

I didn't agree with the killing either. Jory appeared to be backing off, while drawing a sword in self-defence (it seemed he was going to fight only if he wasn't allowed to leave). Duncan could have sworn him to secrecy and let him go. And if he didn't keep the secret, so what? Was somebody going to blab to the archdemon? There would still be new grey wardens even if the secret got out, I think, because people could be conscripted or would join for glory or to escape something.



Probably Duncan shouldn't have chosen Jory in the first place. In Duncan's favour, it seems that he had a policy of recruiting people who didn't have many other options. That wasn't the case for Jory.



Of course, Jory would have likely died anyway, unless he'd been sent to the tower, but Duncan wasn't to know that.

[Mlai00]

Duncan is only human. He sounds all wise, but he's simply an older Grey Warden, is all. He made some bad decisions that led up to Jory's meaningless death. But at that point in the cutscene, his only real choice was to silence Jory. No, he doesn't know if Jory can keep a secret. But he wasn't inclined to take the risk.

Duncan is too hasty in his recruiting, because the need for GWs in Fereldan is ludicrously dire. He'll send anyone who looks half-capable into the Joining.

[IanPolaris]

If you talk to Jory, he won the Grand Melee at highever (only winning the Joust is more presitgous in knightly circles) and he was "polically connected" to both Arl Eamon and the Couslands (which I found ironic since he doesn't recognize a Cousland that's right in front of him but I digress). Apparently, Duncan said he needed recruits and he was offered the champion of the tournament.

Under these circumstances and especially when (at first) Ser Jory was super-Gung Ho to join, I don't think that Duncan had a real option to reject him (or at least not without unacceptable political consequences to the Grey Wardens). You see this all the time even in Modern Military Forces. Often there are Cadets or even full Officers that have no business being within shouting distant of command....but Daddy (or Mommy) Senator says otherwise and that is that.

-Polaris

Edit:  Just an afterthought that adds to my point above.  In you play a HNF or HNM, although Duncan clearly wants you (the PC) to join the wardens, he is forced for political reasons (namely your father is the number two ranking noble in all of Fereldan and he won't allow it) to offer the position of Grey Warden recruit to Ser Gilmore instead.  I can easily see Duncan's hand being forced with Ser Jory as well.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 13 mars 2010 - 08:16 .

[krylo]

I swear, if Duncan hadn't killed Jory I would have.

I just want you to spend a good long time imagining Ser "This-Is-Foolish" Jory when you tried to bring him into the deep roads... or up against the tower abominations... or fighting a high dragon...

There are people who think Alistair is whiny.  Alistair isn't whiny, and Ser Jory would prove it by his very existence as the paragon of whine.

Modifié par krylo, 13 mars 2010 - 08:13 .

[Mlai00]

Actually, in my first playthrough, everyone died in the Wilds when we encountered an Emissary for the first time. So... Jory is right.

He didn't have plot armor, that was his trouble. But imagine if none of us had plot armor. I'd be +1ing him all the way.

[krylo]

Jory was the only one who ever died in the wilds on my first play through, but I was a mage, and I zerged fireball (followed by walking bomb) which is kind of cheating.  It could have only been easier if I had zerged CoC.

Modifié par krylo, 13 mars 2010 - 08:18 .

[Andorfiend]

Here's a plot hole for you. King Maric allowed the Grey Wardens back into Ferelden after they had been kicked out in Sophia's day for rebellion. These new Grey Wardens came from Orlais which is why Loghain hates and distrusts them.



But why exactly did the Orlesians continue the Ferelden policy of banning their own Orlesian Grey Wardens from operating in Ferelden during the Orlesian occupation? Why didn't the Wardens restablish the Order a century ago and start recruiting native Fereldens into it?

[crawfs]

If he was that scared of death he should never have been a knight in the first place

[Alyka]

krylo wrote...

I swear, if Duncan hadn't killed Jory I would have.

I just want you to spend a good long time imagining Ser "This-Is-Foolish" Jory when you tried to bring him into the deep roads... or up against the tower abominations... or fighting a high dragon...

There are people who think Alistair is whiny.  Alistair isn't whiny, and Ser Jory would prove it by his very existence as the paragon of whine.

Totally.


I think Duncan did what he thought was necessary. I mean if some dude that looks like hes bugging out and might blab that blood magic is involved with the joining unsheathed his sword on you, wouldn't you take that as a sign that he just might use it?
Duncan's all like "Bish I'll cut you. Dont f*&^ with the senior GW.I told you we pay a heavy price and now you're lookin for a fight!? Well, YOU GOT ONE!"
And Alistair's all like "Pssh dude I went through it. You're a wuss.You MIGHT have lived but now you went and pissed poor Duncan off. And here I thought Duncan was crazy for picking that cutpurse Daveth up but at least he manned up and went through the joining."
And Daveth is dead but at least he died with dignity.
And the PC is standing there like "WTF!? Ok note to self; don't make Duncan mad."
Or something to that effect. lol.

[Ponce de Leon]

I wonder how the other recruit from Alistair's joining died... It was horrible... what, the body exploded and splashed blood in an area of 100 feet?

Still, I also don't know why Duncan doesn't say "I'm sorry, ser Jory!" Would be kind of funny

[AntiChri5]

Join a military during a time of war. The day before the decisive battle refuse to follow orders and draw your weapon on your CO. Watch what happens. I don't know if you would be executed these days (depends on your country) but during WW 1 or WW 2 you would have been.

[Sauronych]

Maybe Duncan was just a little bloodthirsty. Both of them are dead now and Jory annoyed the hell out of me anyway.

[Moogliepie]

sylvanaerie wrote...

If you ask him Duncan explains Jory left him no choice when he pulled his blade. I get the feeling Duncan would have done it anyway though. Jory's whole rose colored glasses approach to the Gray Wardens was doomed from the get go. How he got past Duncan's screening I have no clue.

I get that, but why recruit Jory in the first place. Even if Jory did go through the joining, what's stopping him (or other disgruntled Wardens who have family) from going AWOL later, or staging a mutiny?  I don't quite get Duncan's recruitment strategy. 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Moogliepie wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

If you ask him Duncan explains Jory left him no choice when he pulled his blade. I get the feeling Duncan would have done it anyway though. Jory's whole rose colored glasses approach to the Gray Wardens was doomed from the get go. How he got past Duncan's screening I have no clue.

I get that, but why recruit Jory in the first place. Even if Jory did go through the joining, what's stopping him (or other disgruntled Wardens who have family) from going AWOL later, or staging a mutiny?  I don't quite get Duncan's recruitment strategy. 

Once you've survived the joining, that's it. You are, like it or not, forever tied to the darkspawn, and will be hounded by them for the rest of your life. So leaving won't make any difference.

[AntiChri5]

You dont look like an elf.....

[highcastle]

Jory wanted to be a Grey Warden. He evidently did something to impress Duncan. Everyone knows that when you become a Warden, your old life is over. Countless people tell you this, so I imagine Jory didn't go in blind. Only, when whatever fantasy he'd constructed about the Wardens shattered at the Joining, he tried to back out. Unfortunately, the Wardens are a super secret society and by this point Jory knew too much.

I always got the feeling that when Duncan tells the PC he had no choice but kill Jory because he'd drawn his blade, it was something more of a pretty lie to ease the PC's mind. Really, Jory was dead from the beginning because it was clear he wasn't going to join and if he'd survived, he could have spread secrets about the Wardens that caused others to fear or turn against them. And considering how crucial they are to ending the Blight, that can't be allowed to happen.