122 réponses à ce sujet

[Bachuck]

I was having this debate in another thread that was completely derailed, but it's a discussion I feel warrants its own topic.

I know many players have grown attached to their created Shepard (especially if you've imported your save from ME1), but people should understand that although Bioware has granted us the ability to go through the story with our own version of the Commander, there is a canon Shepard used by Bioware and he's neither Female, Black, Latino, Asian, Indian, a Biotic or anything else. He's a male (soldier class). He's the same guy you see in all the ads and promo art).

Mac Walters, the lead writer of both ME2 and the comic book series, Mass Effect: Redemption, was interviewed and asked:

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Mass Effect was known for being flexible, allowing a few branching paths that let the player create their story and their Shephard. Does the comic book account for that flexibility or is there a specific cannon version that you're basing this story off?

Certainly for some events that occurred we have to go with a certain cannon version. So there's a chance that what you read might not be exactly the events you remember, but for the most part what we were able to do is take the time frame and events that could happen with any Shepard and I think a lot of it will come out in the details when they see it and people will understand. We were cognizant of that and that people have their unique version of the story and their unique Shepard but in the same token, it's still a comic and it has a linear story.

www.ugo.com/games/mass-effect-redemption-comic-book-interview-part-2
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Walters says they're aware of everyone's own personal gaming experience with ME, but at some point they need to follow the canon story they've written internally. I know a lot of people feel their female Shep is as much canon as Male Shep, but it's not to be. Shepard, as promoted by EA/Bioware, is this guy right here:

Modifié par Bachuck, 13 mars 2010 - 05:19 .

[JeanLuc761]

I can't see this thread ending in anything except disaster, but this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. From a writing standpoint, there has to be some degree of "the canon path" in order for the character to believably interact with the universe while still giving players enough freedom to shape their own character.

[Tlazolteotl]

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.

If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

[DuffyMJ]

Before quoting any writer/developer interviews, I suggest you read through this famous essay from literary criticism on (an author's) intentional fallacy.



http://faculty.smu.e...nar/Fallacy.htm

[Dark_Caduceus]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.
If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

Indeed.

[Bann Duncan]

I think all the comic book writer means is that it makes it slightly easier for them to assume certain very basic things. For example, Shepard being male so that they can refer to him with the pronoun 'he' rather than writing out the full name all the time or Liara being recruited early (so that she would have spent a fair bit of time in Shepard's company) et cetera.

[Suron]

MY custom shepard is MY canon shepard...I don't care what BioWare establishes...but..I also know that he's only canon to me and I can't use anything that happened to MY shepard as argument points while discussin ME -IF- BioWare even makes a "canon" shepard and path.



So /your point....to me..mine is canon...someone else has their canon shepard....it has no bearing on the direction Bio takes the story if they set their own canon....yes that's what any future titles/books/etc released will follow..but that's whatever..



And I hope they do give us a canon shepard/story path..even if I don't like it...it will allow for more creative things in the future...more ability to focus on specifics rather then having to stay general just to make anyone's shepard fit what's goin on....like the default Shep in ME2...I wonder why Bio took, what I consider, the worst choices.....why did they give us such an extreme? is that really what they're gonna set up as canon? I doubt it cause the Ascension book menitons the council..and shepard killed them in default char choice in ME2...



but whatever.

[Landline]

There is no cannon in ME, just a massive number of parallel universes.

[Bachuck]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.
If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

Doesn't matter if you're playing your Shepard. Point is, there is a canon one and it ain't yours.

[Tlazolteotl]

Bachuck wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.
If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

Doesn't matter if you're playing your Shepard. Point is, there is a canon one and it ain't yours.

No, my point is, the canon is irrelevant to the Mass Effect experience.

[J0urn3y]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.
If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

This. I didn't pay 70 bucks to be told, "Hey, your doing everything wrong!" Anyway how many people's personal canon Shep is the exact male, renegade, soldier who romanced Ashley that the so called "canon" portrays.

[Suron]

Bachuck wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.
If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

Doesn't matter if you're playing your Shepard. Point is, there is a canon one and it ain't yours.

to me it is...as I said...whatever BioWare does MY shepard is MY canon shepard...

anything other then MY canon shepard is just "what if?"/alternate reality scenerios.

/your point.

[JeanLuc761]

Bachuck wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

If you're playing a Mass Effect game, you're playing your Shepard.
If you're not playing a Mass Effect game, who cares what Shepard is supposed to have done?

Doesn't matter if you're playing your Shepard. Point is, there is a canon one and it ain't yours.

Believe me when I say that it was a big mistake to state that.

From a writing standpoint, there HAS to be a canon Shepard.  He serves as the foundation for the character, and it's what allows him to fit in the universe regardless of whether or not he makes a paragon or renegade decision here and there.  The "canon" is there to provide constraints for the character and to make sure he makes it from point X to point Y in the storyline, but it is not there as a guideline for how the character "should" be.

[Bachuck]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

No, my point is, the canon is irrelevant to the Mass Effect experience.

I think the developers of the story would disagree with you there. You're allowed as a player to nudge the story along in certain directions, but to say the canon is irrelevant makes no sense. The canon they've set-up is integral to the experience.

[Alanosborn1991]

There is no such thing as a "Canon" Commander Shephard.



Everyone has there own, including the creators and writers.



No two people sheps are the same.



For example my Male Shep is the guy on the game case

-Paragon

-Saves council

-Doesnt risk innocents for mission (Balak)

-Nice to everyone

-Wants to save races, unite them

-Nice to Ashley but sacrified her on Virmire so I would be open arms for Tali in ME2 who is now my soulmate



For my Fem Shep its the same but with Kaiden as soulmate romance



Then I have a renegade version of my Male who:



-Was paragon in ME1 but now sees the bigger picture

-Albert Wesker Shephard

-COMPLETE GALACTIC GENOCIDE once I kill Reapers I will take over the galaxy

-Trillions of cries of agony will birth a new balance

[Bachuck]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Believe me when I say that it was a big mistake to state that.

They'll get over it.

JeanLuc761 wrote...

From a writing standpoint, there HAS to be a canon Shepard.  He serves as the foundation for the character, and it's what allows him to fit in the universe regardless of whether or not he makes a paragon or renegade decision here and there.  The "canon" is there to provide constraints for the character and to make sure he makes it from point X to point Y in the storyline, but it is not there as a guideline for how the character "should" be.

Right. You can have your personal Shepard be more Renegade or Paragon, but in the end, you're still going to make a decision the game is dictating. For instance, in ME2, there are multiple choices to make regarding Tali's trial, but ultimately she's going to end up on the Normandy because the canon needs her too. You don't have the option of leaving her on the Flotilla.

[Landline]

Bachuck wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

No, my point is, the canon is irrelevant to the Mass Effect experience.

I think the developers of the story would disagree with you there. You're allowed as a player to nudge the story along in certain directions, but to say the canon is irrelevant makes no sense. The canon they've set-up is integral to the experience.

And what is their canon and what effect does it have on my story


Bloody questionmark button`s broken...

[Tlazolteotl]

Bachuck wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

No, my point is, the canon is irrelevant to the Mass Effect experience.

I think the developers of the story would disagree with you there. You're allowed as a player to nudge the story along in certain directions, but to say the canon is irrelevant makes no sense. The canon they've set-up is integral to the experience.

I don't think you know what canon means.
Canon = official story, right?

That means, whenever there is a game where you make choices, you can never be canon.

Let me repeat that, to make it absolutely clear.
When an event can happen 2 ways, and writers want their universe to exist outside of the game you're playing, then they must make a choice as to which of those ways officially happened.
That's the canon.
That's what you'll see in comic books, or other mass effect universe spin-offs.

When you're playing Shepard, it means nothing.

It only means something if the writers decide (for example) that "Shepard wiped out the Rachni" in ME1, whether you actually did or not.
'cos the canon Shepard did.

[Bachuck]

Landline wrote...

And what is their canon and what effect does it have on my story

The thing is, you're not always choosing the story path. For some of the big points, you're just choosing how your Shepard responds, but the story will play out the same regardless of the Renegade/Paragon option in front of you. For other things (like who lives and dies on Virmire), you have a degree of control.

Modifié par Bachuck, 13 mars 2010 - 05:37 .

[Suron]

funny how you ignore those of us that have completely nullified your point...



BioWare set up a story with a character...and set up boundries that I change by my own actions to get from A to B in the story....within those boundries I have established MY canon shepard....within the ME games...for ME...MY shepard is canon...



difference between MY canon shepard and Bio's canon shepard? nothing..except any future property/games/stories set after or duing the ME trilogy will reference their shepard..obviously not mine...



that however does not change the FACT that MY shepard is MY canon shepard...all the rest are just alternate outcomes..



/your argument



but thanks for playing

[Bachuck]

Suron wrote...

funny how you ignore those of us that have completely nullified your point...

BioWare set up a story with a character...and set up boundries that I change by my own actions to get from A to B in the story....within those boundries I have established MY canon shepard....within the ME games...for ME...MY shepard is canon...

difference between MY canon shepard and Bio's canon shepard? nothing..except any future property/games/stories set after or duing the ME trilogy will reference their shepard..obviously not mine...

You nullified nothing. If anything, you proved my point.

You don't even realize that you just acknowledged that your Shepard is not canon, which is my point.

Thanks for playing, sparky.

[McBeath]

Suron wrote...

funny how you ignore those of us that have completely nullified your point...

BioWare set up a story with a character...and set up boundries that I change by my own actions to get from A to B in the story....within those boundries I have established MY canon shepard....within the ME games...for ME...MY shepard is canon...

difference between MY canon shepard and Bio's canon shepard? nothing..except any future property/games/stories set after or duing the ME trilogy will reference their shepard..obviously not mine...

that however does not change the FACT that MY shepard is MY canon shepard...all the rest are just alternate outcomes..

/your argument

but thanks for playing

Actually, the OP is correct in his assessment of the situation.  Why?  Well, while YOUR Shepard can make a little choice on a dialoge tree, or hit the "interupt", you still don't change anything in the big picture.  Do the Collecters still die regardless of your choice at the end of the game?  Yep, but you just choose how. 

You get to make a lot of little choices, or say things a little different, but the end result is still the same.  No matter what story your reading it still has a beginnig and ending, so does ME2.  You just get to make small changes in between. 

For us as players to have actual freedom the game would suck.  Why?  Because likely we'd do something that down the road would see us fail, and probibly after 3 games and 90 hours of playing.  That wouldn't be fun at all.  So I'm ok with playing my Shepard to thier specifications.  Cheers.

Modifié par McBeath, 13 mars 2010 - 05:46 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Of course there's a canon Shepard. Canon Shepard is an N7 Marine in the Alliance Navy that eventually becomes a Spectre to stop Saren and his heretic Geth from allowing Sovereign access to the Citadel to bring the other Reapers in from Dark Space. Shepard is also killed by Collectors, revived by Cerberus to stop said Collectors from kidnapping humans. Shepard will also play a major role in the oncoming Reaper threat in ME3.



That's Shepard's canon. The minor details, which aren't alluded in the comic book by the way, are what we choose. It's not like KOTOR where no one was even aware which ending was canon for years. There's nothing to worry about like that in ME. Regardless of what you do in ME1, Saren and Sovereign are stopped.

[Bachuck]

McBeath wrote...

Actually, the OP is correct in his assessment of the situation.  Why?  Well, while YOUR Shepard can make a little choice on a dialoge tree, or hit the "interupt", you still don't change anything in the big picture.  Do the Collecters still die regardless of your choice at the end of the game?  Yep, but you just choose how. 

You get to make a lot of little choices, or say things a little different, but the end result is still the same.  No matter what story your reading it still has a beginnig and ending, so does ME2.  You just get to make small changes in between. 

For us as players to have actual freedom the game would suck.  Why?  Because likely we'd do something that down the road would see us fail, and probibly after 3 games and 90 hours of playing.  That wouldn't be fun at all.  So I'm ok with playing my Shepard to thier specifications.  Cheers.

This.

Thank god someone else gets it.

[Suron]

Bachuck wrote...

Suron wrote...

funny how you ignore those of us that have completely nullified your point...

BioWare set up a story with a character...and set up boundries that I change by my own actions to get from A to B in the story....within those boundries I have established MY canon shepard....within the ME games...for ME...MY shepard is canon...

difference between MY canon shepard and Bio's canon shepard? nothing..except any future property/games/stories set after or duing the ME trilogy will reference their shepard..obviously not mine...

You nullified nothing. If anything, you proved my point.

You don't even realize that you just acknowledged that your Shepard is not canon, which is my point.

Thanks for playing, sparky.

yes he is..he's MY canon....

or can't you read?

oh that's right you pick and choose.

you're right though..MY shepard isn't BioWares canon Shepard..however he is still MY canon Shepard while BioWares is not.

what part of that don't you get?

and can't you come up with something better besides mimicking my last comment? I mean it's obvious you have selective hearing (and reading) skills..but really....can't come up with something yourself?

give up