122 réponses à ce sujet

[Bachuck]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

No, you don't get it. That's just the canon story. Not your story.

Take a look at the "I chose Udina, really?" thread, and see what I mean.
People complain about being the canon shepard there, if they start a new game without importing.

But my personal story, or perhaps a better phrase would be, "my version of events in my personal ME experience", is not official canon. Just because I play ME a certain way doesn't make it canon. Does it make it my own personal canon, sure, but that means nothing to no one except me.

If I bought a novel that wanted to detail Shepards adventures after ME3, Bioware would have to give the author an official canon from which to begin and that "bible" would be the only official canon. If the author wanted to detail what Shepard looks like, you better believe he's going to be male, because that's the canon Shep. There would be no way for any author to incorporate our collective Shepards into one single cohesive story that didn't involve millions of parallel universes, but even then, the story would only focus on one Shepard and you better believe it's the guy on your 360 cover box.

[Hatire]

Landline wrote...

There is no cannon in ME, just a massive number of parallel universes.

This is a very interesting concept. I am going to have to go think on it and the implications.

[Ecael]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

janeym27 wrote...

Either way, will this really change your enjoyment of the game?

Not really, just don't build up your expectations for ramifications for big decisions that you have made in ME1 and ME2 for ME3.  Because they won't matter.

Big decisions won't have an effect on actual gameplay, but they will affect the story of Shepard.

Since ME3 is confirmed to be the end of a trilogy, BioWare could very well pull a Dragon Age and summarize all your choices and their consequences in a text-based epilogue (with some extra voice acting thrown in). For example:

Killing Wrex and curing the genophage - epilogue mentions the start of a Second Krogan Rebellion
Saving Wrex and not curing the genophage - epilogue mentions that the krogan flourish, but not enough to colonize

This is the easiest route to take to make the player feel as if he influenced the story. It's not much, but it's better than nothing - more like rewriting the ending of a book that you enjoyed throughout.

In conclusion, we don't have much control over the journey of the series, but we will have some control over the destination. I wish there was a way to describe how all those choices can affect the ending - a simple phrase that illustrates the culmination of all your choices into one single ending - as if it were a mass of choices determining the end result.

You know what?

I think I'll call it...

Modifié par Ecael, 13 mars 2010 - 06:26 .

[tamperous]

Bachuck wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

No, you don't get it. That's just the canon story. Not your story.

Take a look at the "I chose Udina, really?" thread, and see what I mean.
People complain about being the canon shepard there, if they start a new game without importing.

But my personal story, or perhaps a better phrase would be, "my version of events in my personal ME experience", is not official canon. Just because I play ME a certain way doesn't make it canon. Does it make it my own personal canon, sure, but that means nothing to no one except me.

If I bought a novel that wanted to detail Shepards adventures after ME3, Bioware would have to give the author an official canon from which to begin and that "bible" would be the only official canon. If the author wanted to detail what Shepard looks like, you better believe he's going to be male, because that's the canon Shep. There would be no way for any author to incorporate our collective Shepards into one single cohesive story that didn't involve millions of parallel universes, but even then, the story would only focus on one Shepard and you better believe it's the guy on your 360 cover box.

"Official Canon" is irrelevant in a serial medium where the intellectual property is persistent and owned by a corporate entity. EA could fire Bioware's entire staff tomorrow and Mass Effect 3 could be written by someone who choses to ignore all of the events of the previous two games and make it about an evil human corporation who want to take over the asari homeworld so they can put an eezo mine on their planet.

Also to your point that what we experience is less important than what the writers think anyone over the age of 30 knows.... Han Shot First. That's how we know he's BADASS!!

Modifié par tamperous, 13 mars 2010 - 06:31 .

[CmdrFenix83]

rynluna wrote...

The thing that gets me is people try to use the canon Shep argument to say that Canon shep can't be gay. It's a very sensitive subject with only speculations but not everyone plays as the Canon Shep so paying customers are basically playing a "fake" Shep if they don't choose the canon path? Bioware is usually very careful about how they portray Shep in their comments anyway. They never say "he or she"...it's always just Shepard. The fact that you are given so many choices in this game really just makes the word "canon" that more difficult to describe.

It really isn't.  It's obvious who the 'official' Shepard is.  He's the guy we see in every bit of promotional material for the game.  What relevance does the 'Official Canon' version of Shepard have to us, the players?  None unless you're loading in a default Shepard for ME2 without importing from ME1.  Apparently they've used this to justify Shep being straight.( and don't mention Liara/FemShep, as just like Revan, Shep is male in the 'official canon', so FemShep gets more freedom).

I really don't see the point to this entire thread or the arguments in it unless the OP is just trying to annoy the people here trying for the M/M romance options(which are highly unlikely to exist since ME3 will probably not introduce any new LI's).

[Bachuck]

tamperous wrote...

"Official Canon" is irrelevant in a serial medium where the intellectual property is persistent and owned by a corporate entity. EA could fire Bioware's entire staff tomorrow and Mass Effect 3 could be written by someone who choses to ignore all of the events of the previous two games and make it about an evil human corporation who want to take over the asari homeworld so they can put an eezo mine on their planet.

In that case, the new company's vision for ME, sucky it may be, would be the new canon.

[tamperous]

Bachuck wrote...

tamperous wrote...

"Official Canon" is irrelevant in a serial medium where the intellectual property is persistent and owned by a corporate entity. EA could fire Bioware's entire staff tomorrow and Mass Effect 3 could be written by someone who choses to ignore all of the events of the previous two games and make it about an evil human corporation who want to take over the asari homeworld so they can put an eezo mine on their planet.

In that case, the new company's vision for ME, sucky it may be, would be the new canon.

Yep point being that canon is always in the eye of the beholder both: 1) the creators; 2) the poeple consuming the media.

I would choose not to play James Cameron's version of Mass Effect 3 and probably burn all my EA disks in protest, but the events of the first two games and the happy ending I think they are leading to are what will live in my imagination.

Modifié par tamperous, 13 mars 2010 - 06:54 .

[CmdrFenix83]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote..
I really don't see the point to this entire thread or the arguments in it unless the OP is just trying to annoy the people here trying for the M/M romance options(which are highly unlikely to exist since ME3 will probably not introduce any new LI's).

It's the "Big Decisons" "None of my decisions matter" issue here.  Which I am not complaining about BTW.  It is just the reality of it.

Meh, I never understood those complaints.  The entire world feels very different if the Council is alive or dead, Tuchanka feels very different whether or not Wrex is alive.  The gameplay didn't change... yet.  No... but they still have another game to go, how badly do people want BioWare to screw themselves over with having 14848788 different endings to ME2 to try and track?

[CarpeOmnios]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...



Of course there's a canon Shepard. Canon Shepard is an N7 Marine in the Alliance Navy that eventually becomes a Spectre to stop Saren and his heretic Geth from allowing Sovereign access to the Citadel to bring the other Reapers in from Dark Space. Shepard is also killed by Collectors, revived by Cerberus to stop said Collectors from kidnapping humans. Shepard will also play a major role in the oncoming Reaper threat in ME3.



That's Shepard's canon. The minor details, which aren't alluded in the comic book by the way, are what we choose. It's not like KOTOR where no one was even aware which ending was canon for years. There's nothing to worry about like that in ME. Regardless of what you do in ME1, Saren and Sovereign are stopped.

This.

[Mnemnosyne]

Frankly, the moment I see any official story-stuff with a 'canon Shepard' is when I'll stop buying any further official story stuff. I've bought both books, and have ordered all the comics and what I've read so far doesn't make any direct references to anything that contradicts my path through the game, but if I ever do see something like that, I'm done buying secondary story things like comics and books, period.



For example, up to the point I am in Ascension (nearing the end) although the Battle of the Citadel has been mentioned, and the council needing to get things in order and such has been mentioned, there has been no mention of who's now on the council, whether Shepard let the Destiny Ascension be destroyed or not, and so on.



If a book or comic specifically refers to Shepard as a 'he' or makes a definite statement on any one of the actual choices I've taken in the game, I'm done buying Mass Effect comics and books. I'll buy pretty much everything they put out, as long as that doesn't happen, though.

[Balek-Vriege]

Official game canon means a lot less than it used to with the onset of games using the save game data of previous installments. Gamers are now able to connect with their own play style, decisions and "non canon" storylines moreso than the "official canon" storyline, because their custom experience can actually continue in sequels. What does that mean? The "official storyline" doesn't seem like canon at all, but instead a mere preset for those new to the series.



This is unlike previous RPGs which had to assume in great detail the events and choices going from game to game. Devs were naturally forced to dictate in detail what did or did not happen to ensure continuity.



The debate on this topic isn't really about what is or isn't canon. It's about what we as a community and ME fans should consider more important or "true" when talking about events in the ME universe. Is it what Devs use as the story preset from installment to installment? The background used by ME spinoffs? Our own personal saves and characters? Or are all the possibilities and ME lore included in the game and spinoffs considered canon?



I think the last question is the correct answer to this canon issue. The endings of each installment are the only parts I would consider set in stone (defeating Saren, Sovereign, collectors etc) and the only non-canon event in the ME universe so far would be Shepard dieing at the end of ME2 (only because we know ME3 won't allow us to play as Joker or some other character if Shep dies).

[mcsupersport]

Biggest difference with ME through ME3 is the books are a spin off of the game, versus the game being a spin off of the books. Most other big RPGs are based off pen and paper character/worlds, examples are D&D, Star Wars, and any Greek mythology based games. Cannon is less important now, because there is no base world already created that you are trying to fit your game into, and thus the player is allowed a greater flexibility to create their "own" Shepard.



So again, why does it matter anyway?? The game imports my Shepards from one to the next, so in my games, which ever Shepard I am playing is "Cannon" for that game. And yes Bioware does determine broad outlines of my behavior, but then that is totally normal for a video game that I didn't create.

[Akeashar]

Koyasha wrote...

Frankly, the moment I see any official story-stuff with a 'canon Shepard' is when I'll stop buying any further official story stuff. I've bought both books, and have ordered all the comics and what I've read so far doesn't make any direct references to anything that contradicts my path through the game, but if I ever do see something like that, I'm done buying secondary story things like comics and books, period.

For example, up to the point I am in Ascension (nearing the end) although the Battle of the Citadel has been mentioned, and the council needing to get things in order and such has been mentioned, there has been no mention of who's now on the council, whether Shepard let the Destiny Ascension be destroyed or not, and so on.

If a book or comic specifically refers to Shepard as a 'he' or makes a definite statement on any one of the actual choices I've taken in the game, I'm done buying Mass Effect comics and books. I'll buy pretty much everything they put out, as long as that doesn't happen, though.

^
This

(Goddess, I hate that phrase XD)
The concept of Canon is being horribly misused in this thread.

What is canon, is the games, comics and novels.  What is not ME canon is fan art / stories / comics.

Although Shepard is mentioned once in Ascension, and referred to many times in Redemption, there is no identifying features to make it a Shepard or setting beside... well... Its Shepard. The canon Shepard is non-gender specific, saved the Citadel from Saren and, I'll assume, will have wiped out the Protheans as of the next book released. Shepard's body is also the subject of a galaxy wide game of tag.

Completely separate from the canon is the generic Shepard that Bioware created for players of ME2 that haven't imported from ME1. Generic Fail Shepard =/= Canon Shepard.  Its just a set of epic fail flags that'll give a character and background for playing, and Generic Fail Shepard will also be most likely appearing in ME3 for those that aren't transferring in from eraliar in the series..

As for the coverboy... Its simply a default model, and a piece of marketing.  Unlike FPS which have faceless protagonists for the most part, ME is 3rd person and you frequently see a character model.  Having a default one that can be used for promotional material, demonstrations of the game, and one of the *two* default character models (other being the redheaded FemShep).  I've never used that particular character model, and as long as it stays just on the box art, I'm happy.  But having the face that you can use for epic advertising trailers, and other promotional work makes sense.  It works a helluva lot better than if it was one of those pictures with the blacked out head with dotted lines and a red arrow reading 'Insert your face here!'

Modifié par Akeashar, 13 mars 2010 - 08:06 .

[The Angry One]

Sigh. What they mean by "canon" is stuff like.. 'you got Liara in a time frame where she'd actually care about you'

THERE IS NO CANON SHEPARD. ESPECIALLY NOT THAT GUY.




Don't make me spread this around. I'll do it, man. I'm on the edge, man! This is a bug hunt! A bug hunt!

[Llandaryn]

Bachuck wrote...

 I know a lot of people feel their female Shep is as much canon as Male Shep, but it's not to be.

I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[InvaderErl]

That interview is from September. I've seen no indication in the meantime that Bioware has any intention of creating a canon Shep through the expanded universe materials.

The Angry One wrote...

Don't make me spread this around. I'll do it, man. I'm on the edge, man! This is a bug hunt! A bug hunt!

How do I get out of this chicken-**** outfit?

Modifié par InvaderErl, 13 mars 2010 - 08:26 .

[Gocad]

The canon Shep is simply a guy with a KISS story. The single aspect of importance is that they decided to kill off the previous council, but then again that could be explained that they didn't want to confuse NEW players too much with the ME1's story.



They should have made the bold move making it mandatory to import a ME1 character in order to be able to play ME2....

[hawat333]

True. Our Shepard is not canon.



There is no canon Shepard.

[Bachuck]

The canon I'm talking about is the official story; not each of your personal ones. I don't expect to ever see my version of Shepard on screen if they ever make a movie based on ME and neither should any of you. Yes, you can affect certain outcomes of the story, but there's most definitely a certain canon on which everything is based on. Perhaps Bio will continue to be careful, but I bet if a movie studio came calling asking to make a trilogy of films based on these games, you better believe that our decisions, and collective feelings on the subject, are going to get thrown right out the window. 

Romanced Liara in ME1 and stayed faithful to her in ME2? Well goodie for you, but guess what? If Ashley is preferable for the narrative, you better believe that's who they'll have Shep romance in the first film. No way are they going to tip toe around that just to satisfy your feelings about your particular playthrough.

That's what I mean. When all is said and done, there's a base canon that will be drawn upon. It's completely ridiculous to believe otherwise. They've given us a great universe to play in, but at a certain point, if this property does get made into a feature (or trilogy of films), they're going to have to make choices for the story and they're not going to take our choices into account. They will ultimately use whatever canon they've created.