60 réponses à ce sujet

[Sauronych]

I mean, isn't abandoning Redcliffe completely illogical even for an evil character? By doing so you:
- lower your chances of getting into the castle as the gates are closed and no one can tell you how to get in(remember that we don't "yet" know Teagan survived).
- double the numbers of your enemies because all villagers turn into zombies.
- destroy a place where you can replenish your resources, buy new equipment, etc.
- weaken your own army.
I can go on but I think you get the idea. That part of the game disappointed me. I want to play an evil characer, not an insane one.

Modifié par Sauronych, 13 mars 2010 - 11:15 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Good job they don't force you to choose it, then. Giving the player more options is never bad, no matter how idiotic they are.

[IanPolaris]

I hear you. Having tried out abandoning Redcliff as an experiment with an Evil Character, I can confidentaly say that I NEVER will abandon Redcliff again, evil character or no evil character.



You not only have all the disadvantages that you list, but you also lose valuable quests and XP because much of what you do goes through Redcliff.



It's a lose-lose proposition. Just save the villiage and tell Morrigan to put a sock in it.



-Polaris

[Sauronych]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Good job they don't force you to choose it, then. Giving the player more options is never bad, no matter how idiotic they are.

Having a good choice and an idiotic choice isn't exactly what I'd call "giving the player more options". Adding an idiotic option would be fine if they already had 2 or more "sane" ones.

Modifié par Sauronych, 13 mars 2010 - 11:28 .

[CalJones]

It makes as much sense as blowing up Megaton in Fallout 3. It's an option, but it ends up being a huge disadvantage.

[sylvanaerie]

I've never abandoned them on any play through but when I saw it on the forums I went to an old save and did it on my mage. Its worth doing just to watch the video of the town, normally a pretty nice place all silent, deserted and creepy. On top of that Teagan is seriously pissed at you for just walking away (though you can talk him down).

[ejoslin]

When you blow up megaton you at least get a lot of money and see a huge explosion.



The one game I deserted Redcliff made sense for roleplay reasons. I had a city elf who HATED humans. She wasn't about to lift a finger to help any as no one was helping her people out in the closed-off Alienage.



That's the only time I've ever was able to leave Redcliff, and it was a bit of a stretch because it is so stupid.

[Moogliepie]

Sauronych wrote...

I mean, isn't abandoning Redcliffe completely illogical even for an evil character? By doing so you:
- lower your chances of getting into the castle as the gates are closed and no one can tell you how to get in(remember that we don't "yet" know Teagan survived).
- double the numbers of your enemies because all villagers turn into zombies.
- destroy a place where you can replenish your resources, buy new equipment, etc.
- weaken your own army.
I can go on but I think you get the idea. That part of the game disappointed me. I want to play an evil characer, not an insane one.

Unlike other Bioware games, tDAO doesn't incentivize going to extremes when it comes to alignment choices. So if you want to be evil, you don't have to be a complete jackass from start to finish. 

[Moogliepie]

ejoslin wrote...

When you blow up megaton you at least get a lot of money and see a huge explosion.

The one game I deserted Redcliff made sense for roleplay reasons. I had a city elf who HATED humans. She wasn't about to lift a finger to help any as no one was helping her people out in the closed-off Alienage.

That's the only time I've ever was able to leave Redcliff, and it was a bit of a stretch because it is so stupid.

Even if you're evil, you are a Grey Warden who was tasked with recruiting an army to fight the Blight. So you could think of it as "helping" them, in order to use them as darkspawn fodder later on. 

[Xetirox]

Well, to be fair, your character is only going to Redcliffe at Alistair's suggestion. The arling is not part of the treaties, there's nothing compelling them to support your cause, and no guarantee that they will anyway. And with the castle blocked off, and you needing to battle an army of undead before you can get anything done there (and with them all inhabiting the castle, it's unlikely those you need to see are even alive anyway), it's a lot to risk for potentially little reward. I'd understand why any broken knightly order with bigger fish to fry would walk away, especially if you go here early as the game seems to suggest you do.

Problem, though, is that the entire game involves you going into roundabout ways to get your allies. Even for the factions you have a binding treaty for, you still have to effectively take long shots and go on suicide missions that have little or nothing to do with battling the Blight (the entire Orzammar chain is especially guilty). With all this in mind, Redcliffe doesn't stand out, and just ends up being another mission against insurmountable odds with little chance of success that we have to go through regardless.

Modifié par Xetirox, 13 mars 2010 - 02:53 .

[castaftw]

To be fair if you didn't know the outcome before hand it could all be a waste of valuable time gathering allies instead of helping useless farmers... especially looking for the urn seemed far fetched to me, it was described as a relic long lost which you just decided to find, cmon you are almost the only grey warden left in the midst of a blight it is not the time to play indiana jones and the holy grail!

Anyway it is a game and knowing beforehand what happens has a massive influence on your decision.

Modifié par castaftw, 13 mars 2010 - 10:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The truth is, you have little incentive to do either. A choice I would have considered is forcing Teagan to get the PC to the castle and deal with the heart of the problem, while the undead slaughter the village. That way, there are less undead to deal with within the castle.

An equally idiotic choice is going to the circle in order to solve the Connor issue.

[Cuddlezarro]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The truth is, you have little incentive to do either. A choice I would have considered is forcing Teagan to get the PC to the castle and deal with the heart of the problem, while the undead slaughter the village. That way, there are less undead to deal with within the castle.
An equally idiotic choice is going to the circle in order to solve the Connor issue.

totally agree

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The truth is, you have little incentive to do either. A choice I would have considered is forcing Teagan to get the PC to the castle and deal with the heart of the problem, while the undead slaughter the village. That way, there are less undead to deal with within the castle.

This. Waiting for the undead (not technically undead, but still) to fortify themselves again after leaving the village to burn is as hazardous as trying to take the attack when you have an advantage, and the only dude who can get you in there is very probable to die in said attack if you just buzz off.

I remember this from, Morrigan: Chaotic stupid or bad writing? I still vote bad writing on that one.

[Maria Caliban]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Good job they don't force you to choose it, then. Giving the player more options is never bad, no matter how idiotic they are.

I'm going to disagree. A game has only a finite number of options to give characters, an idiotic option means one less non-idiotic option.

[draxynnus]

From my viewpoint, there's no logical reason for even an evil character to abandon Redcliffe village. Even if you care nothing for the people of the village, it's gaining brownie points with a potential ally. It'd be different if it was presented as a case of going in to the heart of the problem now (after all, for all the character knows any delay might be the difference between rescuing Eamon and not) but since the castle is then inhabited by the undead remains of inhabitants of the village, taking that choice is implied to essentially be the Grey Warden sitting back and watching from a safe distance with a bucket of popcorn.

Now, illogical arguments may include "I'm too important to risk my life defending a bunch of peasants" - which seems to be Morrigan's attitude, but which ignores the fact that even without the possibilty of the villagers becoming undead, every enemy killed with the villagers' aid is one you don't have to face alone yourself later. There is also the "Rotten shems deserve what they get" attitude, but while this may be good roleplaying for a particularly vengeful elf, it's the result of emotion rather than logic.

Going to the Circle regarding Conner is logical - by the time you have that option, you have control of most of the castle (possibly all except Eamon's bedroom) and can take proper precautions to prevent Bad Stuff from happening before the warden returns (barricading the areas not under control, burning bodies so they can't be posessed).

Ironically, the Orzammar chain is possibly the one most directly related to the Blight, as it results in some decent reconnaissance (oh, look, there's the Archdemon) as well as taking out a broodmother. It also lacks the "if you can't help yourselves out of this what good are you to me" aspect, which the Circle part is especially guilty of (Eamon and the elves at least have the aspect that they can recruit from other banns and clans respectively while Orzammar is still largely intact despite political turmoil, but with either the templars or the mages what you see in the tower is at least in theory what you get, and what you see is...not that much, really).

Modifié par draxynnus, 14 mars 2010 - 07:30 .

[Sabriana]

There will be no "I'll be heading to the tower" for any of my PCs. Yes, I, the player know that nothing bad will happen, but my PCs do not. Trying to leave before the battle will cause Thomas to flip out, so why should they take the risk afterward.

The demon had the castle and Teagan well in hand before, no reason that it couldn't do it again. My PC just battled undead coming from the castle and the undead marine unit coming from the lake. Those things were tough fighters, far tougher than the militia and the knights combined. She wants this situation resolved, now.

Telling Isolde that my PC needs to think things over, compels her to say "Hurry. Who knows what the demon will do." I see. Thinking takes too long. Why would a trip to the tower and back be less dangerous. Isolde wrought much havoc, and unleashed horror, terror and death on the very people she should protect. She is the arlessa, not just a run-in-the-mill average woman.

She lies until the very end, and even Teagan comments on it. When my PC asks her if she's ready to die, she answers "If sacrificing myself means that Connor might live, I am ready. Let me make right for all the things I have done." Bravo. The first honorable words out of her mouth. She will get her wish and be allowed to be hailed as a hero, not looked upon as the destroyer that she really was.

[Tinnic]

filaminstrel wrote...

It would have been a more fitting evil option if you could abandon them with the intention of recruiting the undead army to fight for you against the darkspawn instead, which is clearly more competent than Redcliffe's army. Of course, you'd have to find someone else to support you in the Landsmeet... but I don't really like the way they joined us at the hip to Arl Eamon anyway though. I don't like the guy much. Cares too much about bloodlines.

Dude! It's a monarchy! Of course he cares about bloodlines and not just him either. If he and the general population of Feralden didn't care about bloodlines, you think they would have a kingship that's inherited?

[Count Viceroy]

I did it once just to see it, it definatly falls under the chaotic stupid category.

[JamieCOTC]

I took Morrigan to Redcliffe once. I got her up to 80 (friendly) and was back down to 60 (Warm) before it was over. You can lose a lot of points w/ Sten in Redcliffe too.

[ejoslin]

Sten you can end up positive with. He approves of you recruiting everyone.

[CalJones]

Sten doesn't approve of you promising the smith you'll find his daughter, but he does give you props for making Dwyn, Lloyd and the elf in the tavern fight in defence of the village.

[R-F]

CalJones wrote...

It makes as much sense as blowing up Megaton in Fallout 3. It's an option, but it ends up being a huge disadvantage.

except the cutscene for that is way more intense.

i abandoned Redcliffe by accident one time, i didn't think anything bad was going to happen. good thing i save every couple of minutes