19 réponses à ce sujet

[Surango]

I'd like to do a playthrough of a DW rogue who is extremely distrustful of mages. I was thinking maybe a trapper/chemist who hangs on every word the chantry says. Magic items will be used. The justification being that they are folded
out of lyrium, a natural ore. I'll make someone else the herbalist.

I have a few questions..

1. How viable are the traps? If I make a grease trap can I throw a fire bomb and set everyone on fire?

2. How viable are bombs? The wiki says each one does 80 damage in an AOE.. do freeze bombs have a chance of freezing people up?

3. Shale.. This is a conflict. How can a creation of magic be justified as a companion?

Thanks.

[sajahVarel]

I made a 3 warriors / 1 rogue party (me, oghren,dog,lelianna, got alister sometimes when mages were annoying), finished the game just fine. Mages are far from mandatory in a team once you know how the game works. Traps and grenades are effective aoes (throw 3 grenades at the beginning of the battle, you will be amazed by the result XD).



For traps : 3 things to know :



1.You can stack traps on the same point (the mob will trigger all of them at the same time, 8 elemental traps = instant kill on most of the groups).

2. If one of YOUR traps isn't triggered at the end of the battle, you can take it back in the inventory to reuse it later.

3. you can trap under someone's feet, meaning you're basically a melee aoe (the trap is instant triggered when used that way, pretty effective).



There are 2 types of traps, the traps (rly), and the lures, the lures are taunting traps, they will attract mobs like a magnet, so when you chain traps you basically put a lure where your traps are, and the mobs will all get in the aoe...



With master stealth, you can trap in a room full of mobs without being detected (most of the time), so when the fight begins they're usually in bad shape from the start (just like when you throw a fireball).

[Surango]

Being one of the faithful, this is going to be a "good" play through. Team will likely consist of DW rogue, Alistair, Leliana, and Dog. I'm guessing from your suggestion of 3 bombs you have more than one character with poison making?

[sajahVarel]

every one with 1 point in poison making, but one char can chain grenades just fine, each grenade and poison has its own cooldown (so you can thorw an acid then a fire and a shock grenade just like you would chain 3 skills). By the way, poisons are stacking, so using 4 or 5 types of coating in a battle speed up the killing (there was times when the fight ended before the poison effect..., poison making is deadly, espacially with daggers).

[Surango]

Sounds deadly indeed. Might switch it up though since I haven't tried the casteless origin. Is the top tier of poison making really worth getting?

[UberuceIAm]

Golems are made by building the big chunky metal or stone humanoid around a live dwarf like a uselessly heavy suit of armour, then pouring molten lyrium into it. Not a very pleasant process for the poor dwarf inside, but I'd imagine it gets the same exemption as you've given to magic items.

As far as I can tell, shock traps/bombs don't seem to drain stamina like the lightning spells do, and ice traps don't freeze, but fire traps/bombs do give the persistent damage after detonation.

Modifié par UberuceIAm, 13 mars 2010 - 05:26 .

[mosspit]

Surango wrote...

Sounds deadly indeed. Might switch it up though since I haven't tried the casteless origin. Is the top tier of poison making really worth getting?

Personally I dun think they are worth it. Elemental bombs are tier2 and they are worth making in bulk as I tend to use them frequently. Poisons on the other hand lasts for a min each. I find that the ones I loot are more than sufficient. Others can be bought. Go tier 4 if you really like/use poisons like quiet death on consistent basis.
If you have someone in your party with unused skills then by all means.

[sajahVarel]

T4 poisons deal 10 dmg each hit (2 times more than their T3 version, and the quiet death is instant kill on 20% HP non elite creatures).



With mementum you'll break the dps meter XD.



As for traps, they each have a unique script, so dmg and side effects don't work like the other talents or spells, by the way the T4 traps are clouds (meaning they stay active for a time after triggering, the overpowering lure is purely a joke, for 10 seconds after triggering it stuns any ennemy for 20s who fails the resist check..., talk about overpowered...).

[Surango]

Great. Thanks for all the info folks. Now..to fight in a game like I would in life.. quietly, weakening my prey, and still being a gold hearted bastard!

[Nauthiz84]

Only thing that makes problems without a mage that can toss a heal are enemies with grab/overwhelm/stun etc. because you can't use potions during those durations so the character might die if the timing is bad and he had low health when taken out. Be careful with monsters that have abilities like that and you should be fine.

Talking about traps/bombs, as already mentioned they are quite handy, having a point in poison making and traps with most characters so they can use them might yield great results.

[sajahVarel]

For grab and overwhelm, there is paralysis, stun and knockdown, you just have to keep them when you fight ogres or other big mobs (dirty fighting, stunning blows, shield bash, poison spamming etc... are actually safer than just trying to heal your guy till he is released).

[Nauthiz84]

sajahVarel wrote...

For grab and overwhelm, there is paralysis, stun and knockdown, you just have to keep them when you fight ogres or other big mobs (dirty fighting, stunning blows, shield bash, poison spamming etc... are actually safer than just trying to heal your guy till he is released).

Yeah, but depending on the party setup and the difficulty setting it is better to be carefull with those

[Surango]

The only ogre I'm really worried about is the one in the tower of Ishal when I'm still green and don't have much in the way of crafting components.
Dual weapon sweep and whirlwind are your friend with mobs, but it's too bad you have to take dual striking to get riposte. I learned how to do a deceive and strike maneuver long before striking at the same time.. still don't have that down truth be told.
Scattershot is a problem no matter your class. It's worse for mages and the spells that need to charge. But with Lel folks will be on the receiving end.
One other rogue question. Is there anything in the way of light armor besides Wade's that's good? I'd rather go cunning than strength.

Modifié par Surango, 14 mars 2010 - 05:42 .

[sajahVarel]

The only ogre I'm really worried about is the one in the tower of Ishal when I'm still green and don't have much in the way of crafting components.

oh yeah that one... XD,is it you first DW char ? I was amazed by my DW warrior, I slaughtered the boss in like 10-15s just by hacking him with my axes... didn't even transform, the High dex from the DW prerequirement is a ridiculously strong defense, bring a stun and nobody can kill you in a melee duel...

For your armor, the best is the felon's coat (in wade's shop), with about 20 str + some bonus you can wear a good light armor.

Shadow of the empire (from the merchant in front of the tapster in orzammar) is a good light armor too (while waiting for the felon's coat, since it's sold only late in the game). If you want the felon's coat btw, don't pick wade's drake armor first, casue he won't sell you anything afterward...

[Surango]

Not my first DW character, but I went noble warrior not taking the poison route. The other warriors were pretty weak in comparison. Even Sten.

[apk117]

No mages = true Nightmare difficulty.

[TBastian]

Not necessarily. If you force your rogue/warriors to try and fill the AoE/support role that mages are supposed to do best (ie give everyone a point in Poison, give some people Herbalism, sell any mage-specific items you see and aim for the best armors ASAP, focus on AoE skills and talents, increase other stats besides str and dex except for focused builds, etc) you should have more or less the same experience.

Granted, you'd be gimping your warriors/rogues from what they do best (single-target DPS, other warrior/rogue utility functions) but that's the reason why he have mages to fill that role in the first place.

[UberuceIAm]

There's two types of No Mage playthrough as well: ones where your pointy-hats stay in camp and are the crafting factories, and ones where they're sent away completely.

I'm yet to do a truly mageless party.  Leaving your poultice pump back in camp is merely harder than bringing her along, but it's not insurmountable. 

Modifié par UberuceIAm, 16 mars 2010 - 08:34 .

[sajahVarel]

zevran already has a full poison making, meaning at most you need a full herbalism and a full trap making. Leliana can do one since she get many points from the rogue class, and alister or sten can do the other. a no mage party is only two people less, you still have 7 others plus you.

[Surango]

Zevran would be parked in camp most of the time if I did that. Having two DW rogues seems like too much running around. I may not even let him live. The only place it would hurt me is the final battle at the gates.