874 réponses à ce sujet

[Chala]

scyphozoa wrote...

try not to be too condescending when offering criticisms

ok sorry 

[Terror_K]

Cross1280 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Here's a mock-up I made of the basic thing I would have liked to have seen for ME2 and would like to see for ME3:-

I think this is the best concept I have seen yet on this issue, You have a good idea here.

I noticed you put in the mods from the first game which i feel is good, but my only suggestion to this is I think they need to stay away from the  "Combat sensor I - X" (insert any mod name) system they had in the first and just make it one mod that gives a set value. 

This way you can simplify the inventory system to just state Combat sensor: Qty 5 for example. this could be done with all the mods and the ammo types if they so wish it.

Yeah, that was my basic idea: that you'd have a selection of mods and modding would be reintroduced, but there wouldn't be various levels of the mod, or at least not anywhere near as many... maybe 3 levels at the most. Heck, mods could even be upgraded via research perhaps, just like the weapons themselves. I certainly don't think there should be levels I to X, ala ME1, just that mods should return.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Wow. I really would love to see that. This is what the old inventory system was good at. It gave you relevant information. It allowed you to make a choice based on that. Now I have to guess what item is better. If the mod selection also modifies the stats shown then it would be near perfect.

Another thing that I liked about the old inventory was that you were able to compare the new selection with the current items chosen. That also worked in shops, BTW. Maybe the stat bars in your screen could split in green and red bars. Green meaning current configuration and red the new selection. Just brain storming.

Yeah, that little bit of yellow on the end of the Damage bar that's boosting it up is supposed to represent the bonus damage given by the Level 3 of Heavy Pistol damage (In hindsight I guess I should have explained it a bit more instead of just posting it and that's it.)

For comparison, I had the idea that the upgrade information panel beneath the weapon stats/info one would when selected display what the upgrade you have does (which is what I've displayed here), but when not-selected and another weapon is chosen would display your currently selected weapon for comparison.

[DarknessBear]

I really like that interface design (although not the final design) I'd also like to see some individual gun modding as well, sort of like:

http://www.switchbre...ages/crysis.jpg

[Terror_K]

DarknessBear wrote...

I really like that interface design (although not the final design) I'd also like to see some individual gun modding as well, sort of like:
http://www.switchbre...ages/crysis.jpg

Yeah, that's why I thought the ME1 style mod system should return, since it would basically cover that (which is incorporated into my mock-up). Especially if they introduced some new mods not seen in ME1... perhaps even some that are weapon-specific (e.g. greater level of zoom for a sniper rifle).

[Dudeman315]

WillieStyle wrote...

You're on the ME2 message board complaining about how much you hate it months after its release. You are emotionally invested in the franchise.  Just like all those folks who claimed they'd boycott MW2, your bark is bigger than your bite.

I'll bet my mortgage that you'll buy ME3 the week it's released.

So when I don't buy it I have to pay your off your debt? Great deal for you. 

My purchase of ME3 will totally depend on the RPG elements.  I like the idea of ME1 level of customization with an ME armor style flavor but no more single suits armors(or weapons) for specials except Heavy Weapons.  We need in game weapon stats. 

Fallout 3 mixed well because RPG elements(weapon skills) were fundimental to to combat system.  I know of no RPG other than ME2 whose design was RPG elements have should not be a MAJOR factor in combat.

As far as tabletop go I'm one of those everything should be Rifts because of customization. Half-Elf wizards cast a fireball and I shoot him with main particle cannon of my hovertank, for the win!!!

[Terror_K]

slimgrin wrote...

Nice design Terror_K. Email that to Mrs. Norman.

Thanks. I'm actually hoping that she (and perhaps other devs) is still reading this thread.

[Fritz3D]

Terror_K wrote...

Here's a mock-up I made of the basic thing I would have liked to have seen for ME2 and would like to see for ME3:-

Nice work but I really don't think this will improve the gameplay more than it will damage it by the added complexity (consider you'll have to do this for 12 squadmates).

[-Skorpious-]

Not necessarily. Shepard was the only character in ME:2 to have custom armor; it would logically make sense if Shepard was the only character to receive stronger weapons, while teammates would use a default or (hate having to say this) "dumbed down" version of weapons.

[TJSolo]

WTH are you talking about.

It is the same thing you do in me2 but it shows a bit more information.

Emphasis on a bit.

Complexity, time. How lazy do you think gamers are?

[Scottthesnow]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Not necessarily. Shepard was the only character in ME:2 to have custom armor; it would logically make sense if Shepard was the only character to receive stronger weapons, while teammates would use a default or (hate having to say this) "dumbed down" version of weapons.

Wow, that is pretty hopeless.  Have faith man, dare to dream.  Customizable armor for everyone!  Customizable weapons for everyone!  Equal treatment for Squaddies!  Power to the Toons!

[CatatonicMan]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Not necessarily. Shepard was the only character in ME:2 to have custom armor; it would logically make sense if Shepard was the only character to receive stronger weapons, while teammates would use a default or (hate having to say this) "dumbed down" version of weapons.

I'd say that the nonexistent armor on half your team is a problem all its own, and that's above and beyond the lack of armor customization.

But your suggestion is sound, even though I would deplore the lack of squad customization.

[Bob5312]

I appreciate all the effort that went into making that, Terror_K, and it looks fantastic.  It's not what I would like to see done, but you actually put in the effort to make your idea tangible, and I respect that.  The problems I can foresee are the (previously mentioned) need to do this for multiple squad members and the need to bring looting back to supply the necessary inventory variety and upgrades. 

Managing weapon upgrades, armour upgrades, different weapons, etc. for upwards of a dozen people would be time-consuming and frustrating to me.  I hate inventory management in games in general; in DA:O and other 'classic' RPGs I regard it as a necessary chore, but I derive no joy from it.  Rather like planet scanning.  The return of interchangeable weapon upgrades would be nice, but not at different 'levels', and not as many as in ME.  And the need to loot bodies to find them would turn the game into more of a 'grind', which just makes the game feel like it wants me to do chores before I get to have fun.

Your design is much better than the current one, and it would be nice to see it adopted in a limited form in future games.  Thank you, and well done.

[Pocketgb]

Bear in mind that even though there was loot in ME1, there was no looting: drops from enemies were added automatically and shown before you viewed your inventory. This made it much easier to turn it all into omni-gel ; p

Crates and other containers are exceptions, of course.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 17 mars 2010 - 03:38 .

[Terror_K]

Bob5312 wrote...

I appreciate all the effort that went into making that, Terror_K, and it looks fantastic.  It's not what I would like to see done, but you actually put in the effort to make your idea tangible, and I respect that.  The problems I can foresee are the (previously mentioned) need to do this for multiple squad members and the need to bring looting back to supply the necessary inventory variety and upgrades. 

Managing weapon upgrades, armour upgrades, different weapons, etc. for upwards of a dozen people would be time-consuming and frustrating to me.  I hate inventory management in games in general; in DA:O and other 'classic' RPGs I regard it as a necessary chore, but I derive no joy from it.  Rather like planet scanning.  The return of interchangeable weapon upgrades would be nice, but not at different 'levels', and not as many as in ME.  And the need to loot bodies to find them would turn the game into more of a 'grind', which just makes the game feel like it wants me to do chores before I get to have fun.

Your design is much better than the current one, and it would be nice to see it adopted in a limited form in future games.  Thank you, and well done.

Actually, one wouldn't need to necessarily bring back looting if one didn't want to. New weapons, weapon mods, upgrades and the like could easily just be either bought from vendors or scanned with the omni-tool from corpses, guns racks, etc. you come across in-game, ala ME2. Other than that the looting could be done automatically and all you see is a pop-up in the corner of your screen saying "Mod X has been found" or something. Unlike having individual mods in ME1, just find one and replicate it like in ME2, and instead of having levels I - X like in ME1 you just have one and it either stays the same or you make it better researching upgrades to "level it up" so to speak (this would depend on the mod perhaps).

[R0cket Surge0n]

Yeah a little too simplified perhaps.

[-Skorpious-]

Just to clarify - my previous post isn't how I envision squad inventory for ME:3, it was only a possible solution for those who dislike managing 10+ characters. I personally welcome fully customizable characters, and the lack of customization was one of the gripes I had with ME:2.

[Bob5312]

Terror_K wrote...
Actually, one wouldn't need to necessarily bring back looting if one didn't want to. New weapons, weapon mods, upgrades and the like could easily just be either bought from vendors or scanned with the omni-tool from corpses, guns racks, etc. you come across in-game, ala ME2. Other than that the looting could be done automatically and all you see is a pop-up in the corner of your screen saying "Mod X has been found" or something. Unlike having individual mods in ME1, just find one and replicate it like in ME2, and instead of having levels I - X like in ME1 you just have one and it either stays the same or you make it better researching upgrades to "level it up" so to speak (this would depend on the mod perhaps).

I like pretty much everything you said there, and if it were implemented in this way I would probably find it a lot more enjoyable than either ME's system or that of ME2. 

The point, I feel, should be to add variety to the gameplay and to allow the player to adapt his/her equipment to the mission and his/her preferred tactics, and not simply to add a lot of customization for its own sake.  Something like two or three upgrades per weapon; enough to give some choice without becoming a lengthy exercise in number comparison.  Weapons that offer more tactical flexibility rather than being simple upgrades of each other would actually make the variety worthwhile as well. 

[EternalWolfe]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Just to clarify - my previous post isn't how I envision squad inventory for ME:3, it was only a possible solution for those who dislike managing 10+ characters. I personally welcome fully customizable characters, and the lack of customization was one of the gripes I had with ME:2.

Another possible solution might be, rather then lowering customization of multiple characters to one, automating it instead.

For instance, you bring up the customization screen and put whatever mods you want into your weapon - then there are several choices(either on screen or when you choose to exit screen), such as:

saveing your loadout(allowing you remake it in a snap if you want to change back to it later)
turning all of this weapon across all characters to this loadout
ect.

Allowing large scale customization across multiple characters simpler - or, if you wish(and I would), customize each weapon to each character personally.  This is, of course, keeping in with what Terror just said, about basically fabricating your weapons and mods onboard the ship, rather then finding enough of each one.

Armor brings a bigger problem - for the most part, weapons can have the exact same model and work on all characters.  With armor, most characters have special models, which means that one armor piece may not fit all character models without tweaking, and still might not work(imagine the Visor you buy in Omega on Tali).

I've seen several ideas for that fix, of course.
Having a number of one-piece armors(unique of course) to equip to them, with various stats.

Having armor parts you buy for yourself turn into invisible 'mods' and allow you to equip these mods to the slots on squadmates armors(in which case, the previous idea for weapons might also work to automize armor selection, although maybe not as well)

Or going the whole 9 yards and custom building a bunch of armor parts for all characters(probably the least viable idea overall due to resources)

[flem1]

Murmillos wrote...

flem1 wrote...

Bio isn't going to bring back the stupid loot management minigame that's weighed down every previous RPG for ME3, are they?

ME2 was wonderful in its purity. Just need more appearance options.

We dont want a stupid loot system like ME1, but we don't want the no-loot system that ME2 has either.

"We"?

You don't.  I do.  Bio tossing the must-have-loot albatross is a major reason why ME2 has gotten the massive critical praise it has, topping even the superb previous Bio game that followed/revitalized *all* the old-school checkboxes.

It's not only better for gameplay, it increases immersion -- nothing screams "this is a game" like rifling through every enemy's pockets or having his loot jump across a lake of molten lava into your gigantic inventory.

[devil_foetus]

I don't believe removing faulty game mechanics instead of solving the original design problems is any way to make the situation better.

[flem1]

JKoopman wrote...

Inventory leads to customization which
leads to depth. Depth is what we're after. Without depth, Mass
Effect isn't an RPG; it's just a story-driven action game.

No, without depth it would be a shallow RPG.  RPG doesn't mean "game I like".

JKoopman wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

In the off chance that Bioware is considering returning to an "loot grinding" inventory system or a "hybrid" regenerating ammo system:
I'd like to point out that the people making such suggestions also believe that turn-based combat isn't obsolete.

That's a somehwhat pompous statement to make. Actually, scratch that "somewhat." That's a very pompous statement to make.

Turn-based combat is no more "obsolete" than are RTS games or platformers.

You're not helping your case, you know.

[Terror_K]

It depends purely on the type and style of game. I doubt when Civ 5 comes out that it won't be turn-based.

[JKoopman]

flem1 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Inventory leads to customization which
leads to depth. Depth is what we're after. Without depth, Mass
Effect isn't an RPG; it's just a story-driven action game.

No, without depth it would be a shallow RPG.  RPG doesn't mean "game I like".

JKoopman wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

In the off chance that Bioware is considering returning to an "loot grinding" inventory system or a "hybrid" regenerating ammo system:
I'd like to point out that the people making such suggestions also believe that turn-based combat isn't obsolete.

That's a somehwhat pompous statement to make. Actually, scratch that "somewhat." That's a very pompous statement to make.

Turn-based combat is no more "obsolete" than are RTS games or platformers.

You're not helping your case, you know.

Care to explain or are you just throwing that out there because you can't think up an actual response?