127 réponses à ce sujet

[EricHVela]

Ecael wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

davidt0504 wrote...

well if bioware reads these things, then please give us the same characters from me1 and 2. Don't give us a whole bunch of new squad mates, infact i would prefer you don't give us any new ones. Let us use the ones from me2 and maybe some from 1. This is the end, the time to reveal characters is over.

Out of the squadmates from ME1 and ME2, only Liara is alive at all possible Shepard-lives endings of ME2. Everyone else can end up dead during the course of the game. (EDI and Joker are alive, too, but not really squadmates.)

So for anyone that survived in your game who could die, you'll likely end up with a bit-part in the next game like Alenko, Williams and Wrex had.

... unless you can work out the mechanics of 65,534 possibilities for surviving former squadmate combinations as part of your team and keep them from being cookie-cutter drones.

They've always been drones since ME1, having either ambiguous dialogue or entirely different viewpoints recorded for every situation:

Tali's split personality has minimal impact but she survives ME1. Ashley/Kaiden death caused both characters to be all but deleted from the game. Wrex's death also made his character inconsequential in ME2. He was so easily replaced with his sibling in the alternative. And yet, the entire dialog for Wrex had to be recorded twice for that 1.5 missions. Imagine doing such things for more characters, throughout the entire game instead.

So, unless you want a whole slew of lazarus projects, I'm still looking for someone to explain how to bring all these characters back as squadmates while still having them possibly die.

[Ecael]

Mukora wrote...

Ecael wrote...

-snip-

Tali's Split Personality

-snip-
I wish I could find the video of Ashley agreeing and then disagreeing to wiping out the Rachni. She's just like the Turian Councilor - disagrees with everything you do sometimes.

-snip-

I always assumed they were playing Devil's Advocate. They're just trying to provide insight as to why you would pick the other option.

Unfortunately, the devout religious Ashley is the last person who should be playing Devil's Advocate. Depending on the other squadmate, she will sometimes say things that go well against her beliefs.

[epoch_]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Ecael wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

davidt0504 wrote...

well if bioware reads these things, then please give us the same characters from me1 and 2. Don't give us a whole bunch of new squad mates, infact i would prefer you don't give us any new ones. Let us use the ones from me2 and maybe some from 1. This is the end, the time to reveal characters is over.

Out of the squadmates from ME1 and ME2, only Liara is alive at all possible Shepard-lives endings of ME2. Everyone else can end up dead during the course of the game. (EDI and Joker are alive, too, but not really squadmates.)

So for anyone that survived in your game who could die, you'll likely end up with a bit-part in the next game like Alenko, Williams and Wrex had.

... unless you can work out the mechanics of 65,534 possibilities for surviving former squadmate combinations as part of your team and keep them from being cookie-cutter drones.

They've always been drones since ME1, having either ambiguous dialogue or entirely different viewpoints recorded for every situation:

Tali's split personality has minimal impact but she survives ME1. Ashley/Kaiden death caused both characters to be all but deleted from the game. Wrex's death also made his character inconsequential in ME2. He was so easily replaced with his sibling in the alternative. And yet, the entire dialog for Wrex had to be recorded twice for that 1.5 missions. Imagine doing such things for more characters, throughout the entire game instead.

So, unless you want a whole slew of lazarus projects, I'm still looking for someone to explain how to bring all these characters back as squadmates while still having them possibly die.

You obviously didn't know how it works. Don't feel bad. Its very convincing at first. Now you know.

[EricHVela]

Ecael wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

They only have interactions with Shepard really. Thane has absolutely no effect on Tali. Garrus has no effect on Mordin. Ashley has no effect on Samara. Liara has no effect on Zaeed

etc. etc

Actually, they do in dialog. If two team members need to say something, in a dialog (which happens enough in both ME1+2) you have to account for every team member combination.

Actually, they don't. Like I said, they are voiced to have ambiguous dialogue in ME2. They can either say the first squadmate's lines, or the second squadmate's lines.

Biotic God - All squadmate dialogue

Combinations go out the window in this case, all you need is 2 lines from each squadmate for specific situations and Shepard stating something that will have no overall effect on anyone's personality.

You said they had to record it. There you go. It does impact the development.... unless you think that the actors and recording studios do it for free.

Explain how BW would recover their costs for doing what you're asking.

[EricHVela]

epoch_ wrote...
You obviously didn't know how it works. Don't feel bad. Its very convincing at first. Now you know.

Good way to say nothing at all while pretending to say anything. Nice to know that's how it works.

[Raphael diSanto]

Why do people insist that inventory and loot are core parts of an RPG?

It's a roleplaying game, folks. Not a 'how much junk can I shove into a backpack' game.

Inventory and loot get in the way of the story. They get in the way of playing the role. I want customizable armor sets as much as anyone else, but I don't want them to be loot. The days of wearing the crappy looking vest of uberness disappeared with EQ1.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 14 mars 2010 - 04:09 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

What Legion says at the end of that Biotic God montage is badass

[Onyx Jaguar]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Ecael wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

They only have interactions with Shepard really. Thane has absolutely no effect on Tali. Garrus has no effect on Mordin. Ashley has no effect on Samara. Liara has no effect on Zaeed

etc. etc

Actually, they do in dialog. If two team members need to say something, in a dialog (which happens enough in both ME1+2) you have to account for every team member combination.

Actually, they don't. Like I said, they are voiced to have ambiguous dialogue in ME2. They can either say the first squadmate's lines, or the second squadmate's lines.

Biotic God - All squadmate dialogue

Combinations go out the window in this case, all you need is 2 lines from each squadmate for specific situations and Shepard stating something that will have no overall effect on anyone's personality.

You said they had to record it. There you go. It does impact the development.... unless you think that the actors and recording studios do it for free.

Explain how BW would recover their costs for doing what you're asking.

They have to pay someone to do the dialogue, I don't see what you are getting at.  They either replace the characters or they hire them back.

[EricHVela]

So... nobody can explain how BW is supposed to bring these people back if they died while recovering the costs of accommodating the development and production of the multiplicity for doing this?

What you MIGHT get: one or two squad members as optional from previous games... and they MIGHT not be the ones you wanted to keep.

[Ecael]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Tali's split personality has minimal impact but she survives ME1. Ashley/Kaiden death caused both characters to be all but deleted from the game. Wrex's death also made his character inconsequential in ME2. He was so easily replaced with his sibling in the alternative. And yet, the entire dialog for Wrex had to be recorded twice for that 1.5 missions. Imagine doing such things for more characters, throughout the entire game instead.

So, unless you want a whole slew of lazarus projects, I'm still looking for someone to explain how to bring all these characters back as squadmates while still having them possibly die.

It's not just her split personality that has minimal impact - all the dialogue for squadmates is recorded to have minimal impact to save time.

There is no need to have placeholders in ME3 - it's the final game. If you kill almost everyone off (like I do), you don't get those characters for Mass Effect 3. Most people here will have No One Left Behind (someone ALWAYS posts a topic on this as if it were some kind of difficult achievement), and won't even be affected.

There's a reason Shepard will only survive (to be importable) if you have two squadmates survive, and it's not just to complete the rest of your missions in ME2. I see BioWare adding about 2-4 new characters in ME3, maximum. There should be no more focus on character recruitment or loyalties - there is too much story that the game has to cover now.

You said they had to record it. There you go. It does impact the
development.... unless you think that the actors and recording studios
do it for free.

Explain how BW would recover their costs for
doing what you're asking.

Most of the actors for the main voices (Steven Blum, Michael Beattie, April Banigan, etc.) already do additional voices for other characters. Suggesting that they hire 12-14 new actors just to keep the voices original isn't cost-effective either.

[superimposed]

I didn't like the ME:1 loot system. It was absurd that you could only use four weapons, and yet could carry dozens in your magic flesh pockets, not to mention sets of armor, modifications, omni tools and implants....

[carilynn46]

as long as they include a joker romance in ME3 then i am happy and more interactions with squad mates, having Ash/Kaid finally joining your team ect... oh and more drinking with Chakwas lol

[EricHVela]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

Ecael wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

They only have interactions with Shepard really. Thane has absolutely no effect on Tali. Garrus has no effect on Mordin. Ashley has no effect on Samara. Liara has no effect on Zaeed

etc. etc

Actually, they do in dialog. If two team members need to say something, in a dialog (which happens enough in both ME1+2) you have to account for every team member combination.

Actually, they don't. Like I said, they are voiced to have ambiguous dialogue in ME2. They can either say the first squadmate's lines, or the second squadmate's lines.

Biotic God - All squadmate dialogue

Combinations go out the window in this case, all you need is 2 lines from each squadmate for specific situations and Shepard stating something that will have no overall effect on anyone's personality.

You said they had to record it. There you go. It does impact the development.... unless you think that the actors and recording studios do it for free.

Explain how BW would recover their costs for doing what you're asking.

They have to pay someone to do the dialogue, I don't see what you are getting at.  They either replace the characters or they hire them back.

Think about it. Each time they have to re-record a combination, that takes money. By bringing all these people back, you have take the combos and exponent the amount... doing the same to the costs.

Be realistic.

[Onyx Jaguar]

But there are no combos they could bring back everything from ME 1 and ME 2 and everything would still be the same. Everyone just says stock dialogue no matter the situation. Only with slight variances.

[davidt0504]

ReggarBlane wrote...

So... nobody can explain how BW is supposed to bring these people back if they died while recovering the costs of accommodating the development and production of the multiplicity for doing this?
What you MIGHT get: one or two squad members as optional from previous games... and they MIGHT not be the ones you wanted to keep.

like I said, its easier to bring them back as squadmembers.  Seeing how their roles are technically reduced in the story of the game but yet increased in the players mind, leaving them as squadmembers is preferable.  Think about it this way if theyd used all ME1 characters in ME2.  Instead of having two entire lines of dialogue from two different characters on Tuchanka, Wrex could have been in your squad if he'd lived but if he'd died then just all of the stuff relating to him on the ship would be gone, i.e. his presence aboard and you wouldn't have to do his loyalty mission.  This is much simpler.  So its easier to keep them as squadmates for ME3.  

[BobbyTheI]

As I've said before, it seems like it would take much more space and resources to create 6-10 new squadmate recruitment missions than it would to just assume your squad is already there and just have the plot take the main focus.

People keep saying, "Well, people could have only four squadmates left to pick from."  Okay, A) yeah, so what?  Let those people deal with having only four squadmates.  But on a less confrontational note, there's a thread going where somebody tries to play so badly that they're left with the worst possible game to import.  In other words, you have to try REALLY hard to actually get that "only four potential squadmates left" situation.  

I really doubt there's going to be a lot of people with that sort of game to import.  In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of finished playthroughs of ME2 are 1) people who made a few screwups and lost 1-3 squadmates, people who are playing through a second time or used a walkthrough and saved everybody or C) people who totally rushed through the game, didn't get anyone's loyalty, and got Shepard killed because nobody was left alive. 

(Man, this post is going to need a flowchart before I'm finished.)

And yes, from my perusals through the audiobanks, I can tell you that most squadmate dialogue is generic.  It's almost kinda funny, hearing 12 different people saying the exact same line, or close to it, in rapid succession as I go through these audiobanks.  And since the banter during missions is generic, all that's left is the banter on the ship, which is pretty self-contained.  And considering pretty much EVERY squadmate from ME1 and ME2 has a fanbase, large or small, it seems like it'd be prudent to work with voice actors the team knows, characters they're familiar with, and let all of them get closure on their personal stories in the great big Shepard story finale.

[huntrrz]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

They only have interactions with Shepard really. Thane has absolutely no effect on Tali. Garrus has no effect on Mordin. Ashley has no effect on Samara. Liara has no effect on Zaeed

etc. etc

Actually, they do in dialog. If two team members need to say something, in a dialog (which happens enough in both ME1+2) you have to account for every team member combination.

But in that case the dialog will be essentially the same - each character gets a 'squad member 1' line and a 'squad member 2' line and the engine decides which characters play each role.  The combinations come into play there, but not when scripting and recording the dialog.

[InvaderErl]

Pretty cool to see some behind the scenes thinking on Bioware's part. I'm pretty positive about where 3 is going.

[Quaay]

If you killed off someone in ME2 they can be replaced with someone you've probably already met. That's how I would hope it would work anyway. Tali died? You get Kal'Reegar. Miranda died? You get her sister avenging her death. Mordin dies? His brilliant 16 yr old nephew takes his place. Aria could join as a biotic replacement for Samara/Morinth. Thane dies? His son joins your squad. Just be open to the possibilities and expect every squad member thus far to be available in ME3. Otherwise you get angry fans that won't buy the game because their favorite wasn't included.

[Ecael]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Think about it. Each time they have to re-record a combination, that takes money. By bringing all these people back, you have take the combos and exponent the amount... doing the same to the costs.

Be realistic.

Your viewpoint isn't exactly supported by reality. It's not supported by math, either. Just because there are 12 squadmates in ME2 does not mean they make 7.389729 x 10^42 lines of dialogue for every conversation. They make each character do 2 lines for each conversation, and then have those voice actors do lines for other minor characters if needed. Don't use words like exponent (which isn't even a verb, yet you treat it as one) or permutation or combination when it's completely unnecessary. BioWare doesn't hire a high school math professor as their voice acting director.

Modifié par Ecael, 14 mars 2010 - 04:27 .

[Canned Bullets]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I swear I will be pissed if the Mako makes a comeback and becomes the primary method for gathering minerals!

I think it will be replaced by the Hammerhead instead.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah also guys if they say Goals for ME 3 and say Same Team, they are most likely not talking about their Dev team because I can guarantee you they are already working on ME 3.

[Zulmoka531]

I'm fairly confident your squad, or rather, those who survived will be returning in ME3.

Looking at the fanbase almost every character has generated, Bioware would be shooting themselves in the foot not to. (Meaning you can pretty much expect to see Tali/Garrus/Liara/Ash/Kaiden and got knows who else granted those in your party survived)



You literally have to try to get everyone killed on the Suicide mission. Missing someone here and there and getting them killed off is acceptable on the first few play throughs, but eventually it's gonna click how to keep them alive.



Mass Effect 2, was also character centric. It was about going out, finding this skilled person and that skilled person that to simply junk them all for some new crew on the same new/old ship will be pretty asinine.



Additionally, so many of these voice actors have been working with Bioware since the first freaking Baldur's Gate, I doubt they would turn down the offer to reprise their roles.

[Ecael]

Quaay wrote...

If you killed off someone in ME2 they can be replaced with someone you've probably already met. That's how I would hope it would work anyway. Tali died? You get Kal'Reegar. Miranda died? You get her sister avenging her death. Mordin dies? His brilliant 16 yr old nephew takes his place. Aria could join as a biotic replacement for Samara/Morinth. Thane dies? His son joins your squad. Just be open to the possibilities and expect every squad member thus far to be available in ME3. Otherwise you get angry fans that won't buy the game because their favorite wasn't included.

Also unnecessary.

-Kal'Reegar can also die, so do you get Veetor instead?
-Miranda's sister didn't go through the same training as Miranda did. She may have the genes, but she does not have the abilities. Otherwise, Miranda would not have to be so protective of her.
-Mordin doesn't need to die. Even as a cameo, he can still be the head scientist of the Normandy and simply not fight. He's not going to become senile overnight.
-Aria better not be a squadmate - the last thing we need is a 4th Asari biotic commando.
-Kolyat can be placed in jail if you picked the neutral right option. He's also nowhere near as skilled or hardened as Thane (He yells "Oh my gods" like a high-pitched brat when you shoot the politician yourself)

Placeholders are unnecessary.

The simplest solution is to bring back anywhere from 4 to 14 squadmates with no placeholders and introduce 2-4 new characters. The rest will be cameos that can affect the final mission (or any other mission) if you had them survive all along.