285 réponses à ce sujet

[Tlazolteotl]

Plenty of room to put everyone back in, if they don't add anyone new.

[Collider]

The fact that there are 12 squad mates in ME2 is indicative that Bioware can conceivably have the same in ME3. It's even less work having squad mates return than creating new characters. Also Johnny, you are assuming things once again. You don't know the likelihood of squad mates being solely cameos.

[Tlazolteotl]

And we have a grand total of 2 games to compare with.

Remember that in ME1, there were no real "squadmate missions" as such .. what there were were mostly irrelevant fetch side quests.

Your assumption that we can't have Kai/Ash would be based on the squad-development-focused ME2, which I'll say again .. ME3 won't be.

If what they do will be largely identical (much like Samara/Morinth post loyalty mission), why not exactly?

[keegdarv1]

Multifarious Algorithm wrote...

JohnnyDollar there's nothing really wrong with having modified versions of major story events for different combinations of dead squadmates provided it doesn't involve too many of them. As it goes, there's only two I can think of who really matter in that regard based on what we know: Tali and Legion. Possibly only Tali (in a big way), due to the nature of Legion's existence as has been established.
While all the others could certainly have important arcs which you just wouldn't get otherwise, I'm not sure their are any which would really represent crippling complexity - especially as there's some obvious wittling down which can be done of the major cast (though I kind of hope we just get to keep everyone...that would be damn cool).
Even with Legion and Tali, the only differences I can imagine is some dialog which goes differently and (I would hope) a whole bunch of extra dialog in dealing with major events (of which I hope Quarians and Geth will be one).
EDIT: The biggest single problem is how much additional extra dialog would be needed for all the in-mission banter. Given that I'd say you have very good plot reasons to not have Samara/Morinth, Thane, Zaeed and possibly Jack still on the team, you can easily make enough room for full mission VA'ing for the ME1 characters (going with the idea that 12 is close to the limit of what would be done for in-mission stuff).

Just a side not to this convo

Tali isnt that important ro any plans that my come up in ME3 with the quarians, i know right time for the talis people to freak out or whatever, No but honestly shes not shes like Wrex, Wrex makes it alittle easier to work with the krogan but you can still do it without him thier, Tali would just make it easier to work with the quarians. Her people arent stupid just a tad blind to things outside of thier little world, and a person like Shepard could reach them with or without Tali thier she just may make it easier for Shepard to do so.

I'll give people who may so Legion could be important since well without him you dont know of the true geth at all, so if thats a plot point in ME3 you really at this point would only know about it because of Legion unless theirs something in ME3 to bring it to light

As for the point of the post, i truely dont think its as hard as people may think to bring back people for ME, not saying it be easy but if Bioware were to listen which they try thier best to but can only do so much and if willing to which im sure they are they do the work to bring back as many as they saw would fit into the plot of which way ME3 was going. Just dont expect everyone thats been a squadmate i figure

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, there is another possibility ...

The "squadmate quests" could merely be faction-related quests that has additional dialogue depending on whom you bring along.

At the end of which, you have the option of permanently losing the squadmate in order to give the faction an additional boost. Reverse recruiting, if you will.

[Zulu_DFA]

Every and all squadmate from ME1&2 CAN and SHOULD return in ME3. In which form they will return is up to BioWare

Personally, I think:

Squadmates returning as squadmates:

Liara. generally acceped as "a must"
Geth squadmate = Legion, probably on a new platform.
Ashley/Kaidan.

As for the Krogan and Turian squadmates, I think it will be Grunt and Garrus.

Free Day 1 DLC "Squadmate Pack", containing Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Jack and/or Kasumi. The charachters, useful in combat, but with limited connection to the main story (with no power position in-game), other that they are Shep's buddies. Little dialogue, even less character development, zero impact on the story.

Squadmates returning as NPCs / part-time squadmates:

Miranda, Tali, Mordin, Wrex, Jacob, Samara, Thane (if somehow revived, which would be lame fansevice). The former four will have a thick tie-in to the main plot, and will possibly suffer some significant charachter development due to player's treatment of them in ME2. Jacob, Samara and Thane will have a simple cameo, with maybe a short sidequest.

Of course, all of them available in the game only if survived on the "suicide mission".

Returning as "e-mail" reference: Morinth, Thane (if dead)

About 5 full time squadmates will be brand new (Human, Drell, Salarian, Batarian, male Quarian)

That makes up to 12 squadmates with heavy presence of the surviving cast.

At least, if they pull something like that, Casey Hudson will have solid ground to say: "Look, we tried hard to please everyone, without damaging the the plot-driven game, that is the final part of a trilogy. What's the problem with you, haters?"

Personally I'd like them to cater much less to the characters' fanbase and concentrate on the sci-fi component of the game.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 14 mars 2010 - 11:28 .

[davidt0504]

Akrylik wrote...
another prevalent issue i see here is how total losers on the suicide mission get punished with less content than those who kept their squadies alive.

yeah punish them cause they suck lol, I mean the only way to do that is to try really hard lol.  Its understandable to loose a couple, but thats what makes the game great, if they actually feel a sense of loss in ME3 because charaters died in ME2, but for people who try to have only two people  left, then let them suffer in me3 lol, it takes an effort to do that.   I haven't done this but I'm assuming that the max you can loose anyways is three plus kelly and the crew if you take the time for loyalty. 
Pick the wrong tech:death
Pick the wrong 1st leader: death
Pick the wrong biotic: death
Pick the wrong 2nd leader: death

okay four, but still everything else involves simply not taking the time to get the most out of the game, especially sense the loyalty missions are plot missions, no matter how much people don't want to admit it.  This game is character driven and centrally about your characters, and the loyalty missions are in the mission subsection of the journal and not assignments.  They're right next to quests involving collectors or reapers lol.

[Tlazolteotl]

Plus, if there's ever an argument for paid DLC, this is it right here.

Buy a squadmate mission pack, select which squadmates you want missions for, and you pay $0.75 each. Or something like that.

[Speakeasy13]

I don't want to flame you. But there are a few things I'd like to point out:



1) If I had a nickle every time I read a thread about this subject. I understand you feel like you have a point to prove, but even yourself said it, it's been discussed before. Resurrecting an older thread was just as effective, and possibly more respectful to public's tolerance.



2) My apologies if I were wrong, but the way you singled out certain squad mates as not oughting to return seem to suggest your whole point as stated in the title is based upon your personal preference of each squad mate rather than logic. That doesn't make your argument stronger at all.



I'm not trying to disagree with you, but I think by now Bioware should've gotten the message. Can we please move on to more important things, like the Garrus on Wrex action we've all been craving since before the Reapers' existence?

[Multifarious Algorithm]

keegdarv1 wrote...

Multifarious Algorithm wrote...

JohnnyDollar there's nothing really wrong with having modified versions of major story events for different combinations of dead squadmates provided it doesn't involve too many of them. As it goes, there's only two I can think of who really matter in that regard based on what we know: Tali and Legion. Possibly only Tali (in a big way), due to the nature of Legion's existence as has been established.
While all the others could certainly have important arcs which you just wouldn't get otherwise, I'm not sure their are any which would really represent crippling complexity - especially as there's some obvious wittling down which can be done of the major cast (though I kind of hope we just get to keep everyone...that would be damn cool).
Even with Legion and Tali, the only differences I can imagine is some dialog which goes differently and (I would hope) a whole bunch of extra dialog in dealing with major events (of which I hope Quarians and Geth will be one).
EDIT: The biggest single problem is how much additional extra dialog would be needed for all the in-mission banter. Given that I'd say you have very good plot reasons to not have Samara/Morinth, Thane, Zaeed and possibly Jack still on the team, you can easily make enough room for full mission VA'ing for the ME1 characters (going with the idea that 12 is close to the limit of what would be done for in-mission stuff).

Just a side not to this convo

Tali isnt that important ro any plans that my come up in ME3 with the quarians, i know right time for the talis people to freak out or whatever, No but honestly shes not shes like Wrex, Wrex makes it alittle easier to work with the krogan but you can still do it without him thier, Tali would just make it easier to work with the quarians. Her people arent stupid just a tad blind to things outside of thier little world, and a person like Shepard could reach them with or without Tali thier she just may make it easier for Shepard to do so.

I'll give people who may so Legion could be important since well without him you dont know of the true geth at all, so if thats a plot point in ME3 you really at this point would only know about it because of Legion unless theirs something in ME3 to bring it to light

As for the point of the post, i truely dont think its as hard as people may think to bring back people for ME, not saying it be easy but if Bioware were to listen which they try thier best to but can only do so much and if willing to which im sure they are they do the work to bring back as many as they saw would fit into the plot of which way ME3 was going. Just dont expect everyone thats been a squadmate i figure

The point about Tali and Legion was really me just guessing that the Geth/Quarian thing would be important in ME3 - so, done well - if those two are with you - would probably have to involve a bunch of extra dialog (or I'd want it to anyway).

Nonetheless you are right and that was my overall point - none of the squadmates not being there seems like it would be enormously complex to integrate into the major plot points which would happen in ME3. I just picked the Geth/Quarians coz it's been telegraphed as being pretty damn important from ME2 (Admiral Xen). It is at it's core, just some extra dialog and some changed lines at different points.

People suggesting entire replacement characters are necessary are, I would say - over-complicating their perception of the problem.

EDIT: They're also the only two characters with ties to major races in-game by the time of the final mission. Miranda/Jacob quit Cerberus by fiat along with the rest of the crew, everyone else was already a freelance type person to start with.

Modifié par Multifarious Algorithm, 14 mars 2010 - 01:02 .

[Speakeasy13]

davidt0504 wrote...

Akrylik wrote...
another prevalent issue i see here is how total losers on the suicide mission get punished with less content than those who kept their squadies alive.

yeah punish them cause they suck lol, I mean the only way to do that is to try really hard lol.  Its understandable to loose a couple, but thats what makes the game great, if they actually feel a sense of loss in ME3 because charaters died in ME2, but for people who try to have only two people  left, then let them suffer in me3 lol, it takes an effort to do that.   I haven't done this but I'm assuming that the max you can loose anyways is three plus kelly and the crew if you take the time for loyalty. 
Pick the wrong tech:death
Pick the wrong 1st leader: death
Pick the wrong biotic: death
Pick the wrong 2nd leader: death

okay four, but still everything else involves simply not taking the time to get the most out of the game, especially sense the loyalty missions are plot missions, no matter how much people don't want to admit it.  This game is character driven and centrally about your characters, and the loyalty missions are in the mission subsection of the journal and not assignments.  They're right next to quests involving collectors or reapers lol.

Exactly. It's more difficult to have your squadies live than having them die. The No One Left Behind achievement is hardly any effort at all. In fact EVERYONE who played this game seriously probably at least have one save with all squadies surviving.

I personally think the option to kill off your squad mates is Bioware hinting at all surviving squadies returning in ME3: here's your chance to make sure the fcuker's gone for good, cuz if you don't, we'll put him/her/it in the next game!

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 14 mars 2010 - 01:02 .

[jtav]

I don't think they'll bring everyone back. Samara and Thane have exits already written into their plots. Jacob is the least popular character this side of Anomen. I don't think Bioware wou;d have a higher number of LIs for males than females, so I'm not sure what they'll do.

[Knoll Argonar]

Samara doesn't have to quit at all if you talk to her as a Paragon: "I'll look for you Shepard". Probably indicating that she'll return.



And agreed and very pleased with OP. It's possible and even easier to have your squadies back, since you don't need a presentation, a new motivation, new roles, new designs, new voice actors, nothing. You just have to make better and more awesome what you already have.



And I say that having some Squaddies COULD and SHOULD be important for Shepard to reach major species. Because Wreav is just comanding the Urdnot clan, but Wrex is UNITING them all. Plus Mordin's promise on looking for Genophage Data if you paragon that decision.



Tali is the ONLY quarian known to have had contact with real Geth and not only heretics, plus if you have Legion with you as a Squaddie you already KNOW what are both sides and then you have squaddies that can achieve consensus and peace (or war, as you please). Because Admirals could just ignore you, moreover if you let Tali got killed.in the Suicide Mission. Admiral Xen is clear about that.



I say, keep the same missions, but give Shepard a limited set of options and power in that missions depending on who you have in your crew, or how you acted towards those Squaddies. Make a Geth/Quarian mission wether you have Tali or not, but make the decision of being able to affect Admirals opinion only possible if Tali (& Legion) are with you.



And those decisions would have major outcomes (like planet getting destroyed, wars begining, etc) in the ME3 plot.



So, the same core-plot structure, but MORE options and MORE power for those that have certain Squaddies with them.

[Collider]

jtav wrote...
I don't think they'll bring everyone back. Samara and Thane have exits already written into their plots. Jacob is the least popular character this side of Anomen. I don't think Bioware wou;d have a higher number of LIs for males than females, so I'm not sure what they'll do.

I think most people would be satisfied with most squad mates returning. Zaeed and Kasumi and conceivably a few others either have other things to do or could be NPC's. Mordin for example is getting on in the years, I love the character but he might be better off as a scientist on the ship that has dialogue.

[Karstedt]

I would prefer no replacements. That way you could have a very interesting experience if you got everyone killed.

[Collider]

Karstedt wrote...

I would prefer no replacements. That way you could have a very interesting experience if you got everyone killed.

True, but you can't get everyone killed, you need to have two squad mates survive otherwise Shepard will die.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Collider wrote...

Karstedt wrote...

I would prefer no replacements. That way you could have a very interesting experience if you got everyone killed.

True, but you can't get everyone killed, you need to have two squad mates survive otherwise Shepard will die.

You'll already have Ashley/Kaiden and Liara and at least one other squad member alive at the end of ME2.

I just hope they have the disc space and money to give every character a decent amount of dialogue next time around.  Feels like everybody got shortchanged in ME2.  I wonder how much money they would have saved if they hadn't had so many famous cameos for bit parts. 

[Relshar]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Akrylik wrote...

here's how it works from bio's
perspective:
make content for character, allowing for 2 possible ME3
scenarios
1.character is alive, apply content.
2.character is
dead, DON'T APPLY THE CONTENT.
this gives the issue of subplot
(squadies) cannot be significant to mainplot, with the exception of
liara, who can't die no matter what you may try to attempt.
another
prevalent issue i see here is how total losers on the suicide mission
get punished with less content than those who kept their squadies alive.

This

I appreciate your post OP.
The problem is all of the squadmates but Liara are dead in the ME canon. They may not have died in your playthrough, but they are dead in the canon.
Wrex died on Vimire
Ashley died on Virmire
Kaiden died on Virmire
Garrus survived ME1 and died at the end of ME2
Tali survivied ME1 and died at the end of ME2
All of the squadmates from ME2 are dead
Liara is the only one living in the ME canon

And how do you know this for certain is there a book from BioWare saying who died and who lived?  I want proof not speculation.

[tonnactus]

JeanLuc761 wrote...
 Mass Effect 2 was centered around building the best team the galaxy has ever seen.

The best team the galaxy ever seen would be a team of specters.Ok let see.Samara is on par with a spectre.(Nihlus)
Mordin was a former stg,but is too old for the sequel.Who else is spectre material?Well,jacob did something that made him worth to be one in galaxies.Who else??

[Collider]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...
You'll already have Ashley/Kaiden and Liara and at least one other squad member alive at the end of ME2.

I just hope they have the disc space and money to give every character a decent amount of dialogue next time around.  Feels like everybody got shortchanged in ME2.  I wonder how much money they would have saved if they hadn't had so many famous cameos for bit parts. 

Personally, I would have to disagree. The amount of dialogue the squad mates have with the exception of Zaeed and possibly Legion seem to be on-par if not more than ME1. It would make sense as well considering the focus on the squad mates in ME2.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Collider wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...
You'll already have Ashley/Kaiden and Liara and at least one other squad member alive at the end of ME2.

I just hope they have the disc space and money to give every character a decent amount of dialogue next time around.  Feels like everybody got shortchanged in ME2.  I wonder how much money they would have saved if they hadn't had so many famous cameos for bit parts. 

Personally, I would have to disagree. The amount of dialogue the squad mates have with the exception of Zaeed and possibly Legion seem to be on-par if not more than ME1. It would make sense as well considering the focus on the squad mates in ME2.

They each have their loyalty missions, which are great, and they have two or three conversations on the Normandy, but beyond that they don't seem to react much to what's going on.  Always cleaning the engine or calibrating or meditating--Mordin has a nice rotation of ways of dismissing you, and Joker always has something to say after each mission, but beyond that they felt like they shut you off pretty early on and permanently.  Maybe it's just a matter of how they paced the interactivity, but I liked that I could keep going back to squadmates for most of the first game and they'd still have something new to say after every planet I visited.