285 réponses à ce sujet

[Whitering]

Wow, they only have to account for one possibility, not every variation that players have managed to uncover. I'd rather have the game out several months earlier than later because of stuff like this.



Thane should be dead. Everyone else can live.



Otherwise, how do they account for that one guy who breezed through the game and Sheppard himself died at the end heh

[Ray Joel Oh]

Whitering wrote...

Wow, they only have to account for one possibility, not every variation that players have managed to uncover. I'd rather have the game out several months earlier than later because of stuff like this.

Thane should be dead. Everyone else can live.

Otherwise, how do they account for that one guy who breezed through the game and Sheppard himself died at the end heh

Do you even play Mass Effect?  The whole "your choices have meaning" thing is kind of the hook.


Edit: disregard, I misunderstood.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 15 mars 2010 - 12:04 .

[Gethforceone]

Collider wrote...

I have seen a few threads where people have claimed that it is unlikely or nearly impossible to account for all of the variations possible with the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2, that it would be a logistical nightmare.

Not only is it not impossible, it's not such a daunting task as some people would make it.
Basically, whether or not a squad mate could return is binary - 0 or 1. Either 0 they did not survive or 1 they did survive.

Here is a clear way how deceased squad mates could be handled in Mass Effect 3. These possibilties are not mutually exclusive.

a)
Another NPC assumes their position. An example of this would be Urdnot
Wreav, who is the head of the Urdnot Clan if Wrex was killed. This NPC
would not be a squad mate.Quests involved with this NPC may be altered slightly or significantly due to the squad mate associated being deceased.

Some or all quests associated with the squad mate would either be
altered or unavailable. An example of this would be in Mass Effect 2 -
you cannot do the loyalty mission of the squad mate that was killed.
c)
The changes are minor or nonexistent so it almost appears as they had
never died. An example in Mass Effect 2 would be the news story of the
posthumous awards and dedications to the squad mate who died on Virmire.
d)
Not all squad mates would have to return. Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara and
other squad mates for example could very realistically have other
things to do.

Some people have noted because any squad mate can die in the suicide mission, those who did survive could not conceivably or realistically return or have large roles. This is very false. Take for example Ashley or Kaidan both of which can die, yet were said by Bioware as having a large role in Mass Effect 3, in addition to being squad mates. It is a fair point that Ashley or Kaidan have been interchangeable in their roles so far, as one or the other appears on Horizon. However, what I have said goes to show that potentially deceased characters can have large roles.

Bioware has created the high quality games of Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, both of which required ample amounts of effort and talent. It is not beyond their ability to have fan favorites return in ways that are satisfying to the fans.

In addition, as we have seen in Mass Effect 2, we have squad mates that can have important roles in the game or suicide mission yet do not exclude the possbility of having a satisfactory ending if they are not recruited.

Also take into account that the fans clearly want squad mates to return. And as Christina Norman has shown with her comments on additional RPG features in Mass Effect 3, Bioware listens to its fans.
social.bioware.com/892908/polls/2652/
This poll has almost 50% of respondents saying outright that they would not purchase Mass Effect 3 if the squad mates did not return. 8% do not know whether or not they buy the game. Clearly these characters make Mass Effect what it is.
social.bioware.com/892908/polls/1974/
This poll has over 80% of voters saying that Mass Effect 3 MUST have squad mates return in more significant ways than cameos.

Would like to hear your feedback on the subject matter.

I hope this is true, because it would truly suck if they were not squad mates in ME3.

[Collider]

Indeed.

[Collider]

Shavon wrote...

Whitering wrote...
*snip

*Sorta disagree with you on everything, lol.  I think everyone who survived a particular Shepard's decisions should come back as squadmates, from both games.  They talk about 'dire consequences', well, here's a good idea.

That way if a Shepard shoots himself in the foot and kills a bunch of people off, they have to live with those decisions.  Giving us a sea of more faces will suck.  It's a pretty dumb way to go.

Yes. It pretty much invalidates the whole "suicide mission," and like you said "dire consequences" if squad mates from ME2 are just cameos if not worse. and about the person you are replying to's opinion about Thane, I don't think Bioware would do all that work making a LI specifically for female players with his own recruitment and loyalty mission and just have him die. Unless they think that girls dig the dying widower.

[Zanallen]

I see it as going something like this:

Definite Squad members would be Liara and Ashley/Kaiden.

Possibles if they survivied: The rest of the love interests and Grunt.

Cameos: Wrex, Samara, Legion, Zaaed, Kasumi, and Mordin.

Of course, I would love to have Legion in ME3 since he had such a small role in ME2

Also, as for the rest of the cameos, I image there being a special mission available where you get to use those squadmates in your group for the mission itself. These misisons would not be available in those members are dead in your save file. Example misisons would include helping Wrex and clan Urdnot fight off a rival clan, helping Mordin develop a cure for the genophage and perhaps fight off some Turians who want to stop him, etc. Each of these misisons would be perhaps about an hour long, thereby rewarding people for saving their old squad members.

[Collider]

I see Wrex as being less of a cameo. Grunt I'm not sure would be a possible instead of a cameo. Other than that I have to agree!

[Wittand25]

Zanallen wrote...
Also, as for the rest of the cameos, I image there being a special mission available where you get to use those squadmates in your group for the mission itself. These misisons would not be available in those members are dead in your save file. Example misisons would include helping Wrex and clan Urdnot fight off a rival clan, helping Mordin develop a cure for the genophage and perhaps fight off some Turians who want to stop him, etc. Each of these misisons would be perhaps about an hour long, thereby rewarding people for saving their old squad members.

I dont think that will happen that would be a lot of work for content that many wont see. it is more likely that e.g if Mordin survived you get the mission and can afterwards influence him on the outcome (develop the cure or not) while if he died he will be replaced with a former student, who gives Shepard the mission but Shepard wont be able to influence the outcome that way the only difference would be text and voiceover, while players will still get rewarded for playing ME1+2.

[Suron]

well both sides have valid points.



however, truly, this is the last installment of Shepards story..if we have to form ANOTHER team of all new NPC's to join us..not only does it not make sense for the FINAL fight against the Reapers..but it totally renders everyone from ME1/ME2 that DOESN'T fight WITH YOU pointless and moot. If they do that...then we have a real reason for people to spew "Bad Writing" all day long.



We got our friends...we recruited them...we gained their loyalty..they are the baddest of the badasses in the galaxy....to drop them would be idiotic.

[Ecael]

Suron wrote...

well both sides have valid points.

however, truly, this is the last installment of Shepards story..if we have to form ANOTHER team of all new NPC's to join us..not only does it not make sense for the FINAL fight against the Reapers..but it totally renders everyone from ME1/ME2 that DOESN'T fight WITH YOU pointless and moot. If they do that...then we have a real reason for people to spew "Bad Writing" all day long.

We got our friends...we recruited them...we gained their loyalty..they are the baddest of the badasses in the galaxy....to drop them would be idiotic.

Exactly.

All of the squadmates will play some important role in ME3. Some -- or even all -- of them will be squadmates as well. There are no placeholders necessary; Shepard just loses a potential squadmate when you kill them off. That is the consequence, as it was his choice.

The last thing we need is to spent 90% of the game on characters and a 1 hour mission on destroying the Reapers.

2-4 new ME3 characters, maximum (before DLC).

Modifié par Ecael, 15 mars 2010 - 12:58 .

[Ecael]

Zanallen wrote...

I see it as going something like this:

Definite Squad members would be Liara and Ashley/Kaiden.

Possibles if they survivied: The rest of the love interests and Grunt.

Cameos: Wrex, Samara, Legion, Zaaed, Kasumi, and Mordin.

Of course, I would love to have Legion in ME3 since he had such a small role in ME2

Legion and Tali have exactly the same reasons to stay (both are in love with Shepard).

They also have exactly the same reasons to leave (Tali to rally the Quarians, Legion to assemble the Geth). Thus, either they're both cameos or they're both squadmates.

Also, Mordin is a good cameo and can stay aboard as the Normandy's head scientist for his remaining years. You can say the final mission exhausted him beyond belief (he is the most fragile one, after all).

I wish Captain Kirrahe wasn't killable in ME1 - I always thought he would make a great Salarian squadmate.

Captain Kirrahe: Our influence stopped the Collectors, but before that, we held the line!

Modifié par Ecael, 15 mars 2010 - 01:04 .

[Knoll Argonar]

Tali can get exiled, and there's the Admiratly board for that political matters, she's just a Quarian, not a leader. Legion can operate the Geth by connecting to extranet and FTL communications hub, so there's no need for them to leave.

[OneBadAssMother]

If ME3 is going to be the end of the trilogy, I would be disappointed if they do not implement all possible scenarios due to decisions made in ME1 and 2.



ME2 did a great job with continuity as best as it could be. ME3 should do it better.

[crimzontearz]

 so I'll quote myself from a previous thread

so what was the point of it all if, comes ME3, the lazy, the stupid and the jerks are put on the same level as the people who put effort and invested (emotionally and time wise) in the game?




yes it's about squadmates...it's on nearly everyone's mind when we think about ME3 and the possibility of our favorite characters reduced to cameos because there was the chance they could die. I kinda resigned to the likely eventuality the whole ME2 team would be Cameoized for ME3 but feel I need to say this....




I mean let's say I saved my whole crew and my whole team in the suicide mission...why should I lose potential ME3 full squad members favorite returns because someone else was too lazy to save them all?




so where hypotetically Subject A saved everyone Subject B and subject C did not...




Subject B never upgraded the normandy fully because "LOLZ yeah right who cares, it's a gimmick" and so he lost 2 squaddies before even getting to the collectors' base.....he lost another in the vents because "ZOMG you mean I had to read the characters' descriptions and THINK before picking one?"..... he also lost another one at the "hold the line" sequence because he never did his upgrade research because "mining is too boring....there is no PEW PEW PEW involved!". Luckily he saved the others out of dumb luck. And after all this, rather than reloading a previous saved file to correct his mistakes or attempt another, better, playthrough, he just sets the game aside waiting for ME3.




Of course then there is Subject C who willingly let everyone (but the two mandatory squadmates necessary for Shepard's survival) die because he WANTED the worst possible transferrable ending.




Shouldn't Subject B be punished for his laziness and stupidity?




Shouldn't Subject C face the consequences of his decisions?




Most importantly shouldn't Subject A be rewarded for his effort and investment?




Sure B and C would get a lot less from ME3 being allowed only whoever they saved form ME2 + Kaiden/Ash, Liara + the mandatory one or two new squaddies( a minimum of like six) as opposed to the whole roster Subject A would have access to (minus maybe Jack and Thane since they ae dying...) but B and C got themselves in this situation and can always replay ME2 to change it!




otherwise, if everyone is given a nearly entirely new team with a few cameos here and there thus levelling the scenario evenly......what was the point of it all?






ok rant over and forgive te mistaked I am logging on with my omnia.

I am still of the opinion that if you let people die or you pick the trilogy up from the third chapter you should deal with the consequences

[Ecael]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

If ME3 is going to be the end of the trilogy, I would be disappointed if they do not implement all possible scenarios due to decisions made in ME1 and 2.

ME2 did a great job with continuity as best as it could be. ME3 should do it better.

Yeah, I think because it was the second game, they tried to avoid making more consequences out of the choices made in ME1 (so that it carries over in ME3).

For example, Kaidan/Ashley in ME3 will still have (four) choices carried over:
1. Ashley dead, Kaidan romanced
2. Ashley dead, Kaidan not romanced
3. Kaidan dead, Ashley romanced
4. Kaidan dead, Ashley not romanced

However, if they were a squadmate in ME2, you'd then have the possibility of these choices in ME3:
1. Ashley dead, Kaidan romanced
2. Ashley dead, Kaidan not romanced
3. Ashley dead, Kaidan romanced late
4. Ashley dead, Kaidan heartbroken
5. Ashley dead, Kaidan cheated on
6. Ashley dead, Kaidan dead but not romanced
7. Ashley dead, Kaidan dead with romance
8. Kaidan dead, Ashley romanced
9. Kaidan dead, Ashley not romanced
10. Kaidan dead, Ashley romanced late
11. Kaidan dead, Ashley heartbroken
12. Kaidan dead, Ashley cheated on
13. Kaidan dead, Ashley dead but not romanced
14. Kaidan dead, Ashley dead with romance

That's why the choices in ME1 don't appear to have any mass effect on ME2.

Also, I almost typed 'Ashley dead, Ashley romanced'... that would be bad.

Modifié par Ecael, 15 mars 2010 - 01:30 .

[jlb524]

I think they'll bring about 4 ME2 squad mates back as ME3 squad mates. The rest will be cameos. They'll also make about 4 new characters, just in case the 4 they choose to bring back are dead. So, assuming Ash/Kai and Liara are also back, ME3 players will have anywhere from 6 to 10 squad mates. I think this is reasonable. I don't think bringing back all 10 ME2 squad mates as potential ME3 squad mates is doable.

[DarthRic]

glasgoo21 wrote...

Even if fan favorites do not return, I can assure you they will buy, they'll just run hell at the forums, can't get worse then with all those support threads, who are useless by the way as their content is worth squat

Except it could well cause people to lose faith in Bioware and not buy future games because they will have made bad ones in the past *cough*EA*cough*

[Ecael]

jlb524 wrote...

I think they'll bring about 4 ME2 squad mates back as ME3 squad mates. The rest will be cameos. They'll also make about 4 new characters, just in case the 4 they choose to bring back are dead. So, assuming Ash/Kai and Liara are also back, ME3 players will have anywhere from 6 to 10 squad mates. I think this is reasonable. I don't think bringing back all 10 ME2 squad mates as potential ME3 squad mates is doable.

Your signature suggests confirmation bias.

[jtav]

Let's be honest, we can only guess at this point. Nothing like ME has ever been attempted in terms of continuity. The closest would be Baldur's Gate, and TOB was an expansion. ME2 doesn't really work as a predictor because it doesn't matter who dies because it's the finale.

[jlb524]

Ecael wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think they'll bring about 4 ME2 squad mates back as ME3 squad mates. The rest will be cameos. They'll also make about 4 new characters, just in case the 4 they choose to bring back are dead. So, assuming Ash/Kai and Liara are also back, ME3 players will have anywhere from 6 to 10 squad mates. I think this is reasonable. I don't think bringing back all 10 ME2 squad mates as potential ME3 squad mates is doable.

Your signature suggests confirmation bias.

I was actually being reasonable.  I believe those that expect all 10 ME2 squad mates back are setting themselves up for dissapointment.

[Ecael]

jlb524 wrote...

I was actually being reasonable.  I believe those that expect all 10 ME2 squad mates back are setting themselves up for dissapointment.

I wouldn't consider that reasonable. Just like the ME2 squadmates, Kaidan or Ashley can be dead in your playthrough. And with the Liara Observer quest, she suggests that if you gave her the wrong information (which I did, we'll see if anything else will happen), Nyxeris would have been able to kill her.

With your logic, none of the squadmates will return to Mass Effect 3, and we'll spend not just 90%, but 95% of the game recruiting 14-15 squadmates again.

Modifié par Ecael, 15 mars 2010 - 02:04 .

[Mr_Steph]

 Yes I definitely want my squadmates to be back in ME3. It just wouldn't be the same without them 

[JeanLuc761]

Ecael wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I was actually being reasonable.  I believe those that expect all 10 ME2 squad mates back are setting themselves up for dissapointment.

With your logic, none of the squadmates will return to Mass Effect 3, and we'll spend not just 90%, but 95% of the game recruiting 14-15 squadmates again.

Which would do two things, neither of which are beneficial in any way:

- It would take a lot of time away from the Reaper threat
- It would essentially invalidate everything that you did in Mass Effect 2

[Barquiel]

I agree with jlb524

I think we get...
Liara and Ashley/Kaidan + 3-4 new squadmates = people who lost most of their ME 2 team have a squad in ME3
+ 4-5 ME2 squadmates return as squadmates

Modifié par Barquiel, 15 mars 2010 - 02:25 .