285 réponses à ce sujet

[shinobi602]

Ecael wrote...

Try being optimistic of BioWare's writers. It might help with the gloom that surrounds some of the unsupportive 'support' threads around here (which is part of the reason I ignore all of those threads).
).

What do you mean "unsupportive"?

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Speculating on possibilties like whether or not every other squadmate will actually return in Mass Effect? I'm glad I got you to start thinking optimistically about Liara, but still, wouldn't that be unjust to fans of every other character?

I don't think BW is going to worry about what is 'just' and what isn't.  I still think they'll simply bring back the 4 or 5 most popular ME2 characters and reduce the remaining to cameos. Is it just to the fans of those characters?  No.  Was it just to do the same with Ash/Kai/Liara in ME2?  No.  Did they still do it?  Yes.

I'm aware that Liara's VA could be unavailable and that they could kill off her character b/c of this.  I'm not sure what that has to do with anything though.  They don't even need the Nyxeris plot to accomplish this...they could just have Liara die in a freak accident.  They could say she just ran off and disappeared making her no longer available to recruit in ME3. 

I wonder if we'd get an email. 

[Barrendall]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...
Mass Effect and DA remind me ot the Choose your own Adventure books in my youth.  They were great, you couldn't read the last page of the book and know how it ended because there were many types of endings and very few ended on the last page.  My point is that the character roles should have an effect.  I'm looking at the big picture here.  What happened to the characters in ME1 may have real consequenses (Not sure if I spelled that right)  in ME3.  For any of us to say it does or doesn't is incredibly egotistical.  
Yes the game may be won regardless but I'm hesitant to speculate until I have some hard facts.

Speculation is what this thread is about though.  Choices do not matter in the two previous games.  If the decisions do matter in the 3rd, then I think that will be great.  I am not going to set myself up for a let down because my expectations are high.  I have laid out an argument to this whole decisions and character issue here based on the previous 2 games.  I don't think that it is egotistical to assume the same in the 3rd game.  You are telling me that my thinking is egotistical while offering no counter other than that you are expecting your decisions to matter based on nothing but your hope that they do because you don't have facts.  None of us have the facts.  So lets just close this thread.  There is no need to discuss it anymore going by your statement.

Bub I'm not expecting anything, I'm here for the ride.  You are the one who keeps saying these characters and choices don't matter as though they are fact.  I have merely stated that they may.  We have just finished the second chapter of the book, let's see what happens at the end.

[Blackveldt]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Blackveldt wrote...
Uh, yes.  I stated this.  I also made an assumption of my own--a better one.  But there are different kinds of assumptions (faulty and otherwise) that can be made.  A non-linear assumption is still an assumption.  I'm not sure what you're getting at.  You can make all the assumptions you want, but your conclusion will make more sense/have more plausibility if the assumption is not faulty; that is all I am saying.

I layed out my argument based on ME1 and ME2.  Neither one of us can predict the future.  What is this thread about?  I shouldn't post here if I base my argument off of ME1 and ME2 and come to a conclusion that is not as optimistic as yours and others?  Only assumptions that are optimistic are relevent in this thread.  I think an argument can be made that any predictions about ME3 concerning this topic are faulty.   

I am not optimistic, nor am I pessimistic; I am open-minded.  Actually, I didn't state any theories at all.  You do not know with what I agreed (in terms of plot, characters, etc).  Why?  Because I was not arguing with you about your source!  Lol.  I was arguing with your one linear assumption that it is not even POSSIBLE that the writers decide to include a bad ending.  You outright state that it will not happen as if you are a part of the writing team itself and I am boggled that you won't even consider this potential outcome (of many).  That is what I deemed faulty.

Modifié par Blackveldt, 15 mars 2010 - 08:29 .

[Knoll Argonar]

Not necessary at all.

[Blackveldt]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Blackveldt wrote...
I am not optimistic, nor am I pessimistic; I am open-minded.  Actually, I didn't state any theories at all.  You do not know with what I agreed (in terms of plot, characters, etc).  Why?  Because I was not arguing with you about your source!  Lol.  I was arguing with your one linear assumption that it is not even POSSIBLE that the writers decide to include a bad ending.  You outright state that it will not happen as if you are a part of the writing team itself and I am boggled that you won't even consider this potential outcome (of many).  That is what I deemed faulty.

I said "If that was the case then the player would have to go buy a copy of ME2
and save the characters and then import just to win ME3."
I didn't say impossible. 

Ah.  Fiddling with semantics.  Whether you intended it or not, that sentence furthered your line of reasoning (allusion--it was intended to buttress) as did the following:

JohnnyDollar wrote...
Sure I do, but is it going to impact
your ability to win the game? 

'So you agree that there exists the
possibility that you can "lose" in ME3?' . . . 'No I
agree the writers will have a lot more freedom to provide different
stories/endings/etc.'

"No" does not mean "possibly" or "maybe."  If you merely phrased your meaning incorrectly, I can understand that, but I really can't read your mind--only what you type.  Now, saying "no" and then following with "I agree the writers will have . . . freedom to provide different stories/endings/etc," is contradictory since 'losing' is a different ending, which is why I think you've worded some things by mistake or are simply confused.  Either way, it's ambiguous.

[Tooneyman]

I will tell bioware this and only this. Do what you can as much as you can. I support your effects in making game history. This final chapter is going to change games forever when it comes to decision making. If no one else see this. Your a bunch of ignorant dorks.

[Ecael]

shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Try
being
optimistic of BioWare's writers. It might help with the gloom that
surrounds some of the unsupportive 'support' threads around here (which
is part of the reason I ignore all of those threads).
).

What

do you mean "unsupportive"?

I kind of wish people would reply to more than the first or last sentence of my post.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

I meant that some people who seem to frequent support threads don't do anything but suggest that very few squadmates in ME2 will make it to ME3 or suggest that ME1 squadmates won't make it to ME3 but at the same time saying that their favorite characters from ME1 or ME2 will make it. It just shows bias, especially when someone's signature states quite clearly which characters they adore.

Favoring a character is not a bad thing, but trying to produce valid or logical arguments only to have them all biased (because of that favoritism) is.

jlb524 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Speculating on possibilties like whether or not every other squadmate will actually return in Mass Effect? I'm glad I got you to start thinking optimistically about Liara, but still, wouldn't that be unjust to fans of every other character?

I don't think BW is going to worry about what is 'just' and what isn't.  I still think they'll simply bring back the 4 or 5 most popular ME2 characters and reduce the remaining to cameos. Is it just to the fans of those characters?  No.  Was it just to do the same with Ash/Kai/Liara in ME2?  No.  Did they still do it?  Yes.

I'm aware that Liara's VA could be unavailable and that they could kill off her character b/c of this.  I'm not sure what that has to do with anything though.  They don't even need the Nyxeris plot to accomplish this...they could just have Liara die in a freak accident.  They could say she just ran off and disappeared making her no longer available to recruit in ME3. 

And is it possible they can do the same to Ashley, Liara, Kaidan again in ME3 by making them play 'an important role' (a.k.a. cameo that hardly affects the game) and also not making them squadmates? Yes.

Just like many Liara fans say, they feel shocked that BioWare has treated them like this in the past. People are predicting the future of ME2 squadmates in the ending by saying that almost everyone was disappointed by ME1. Yet they expect the ME1 characters not to get the same treatment because they were promised they'd be in ME3 (just like Casey promised there would a robust new game editor, and he's the Lead Designer...).

So, what happens with forceful pessimism? You get to thinking - what if Ashley/Kaidan continues doing covert missions for the Alliance and only updates to Shepard and Captain Anderson after every mission? That sounds like an 'important role', right? Or, since Liara will need much more time to analyze Shadow Broker's data to become more knowledgeable than he did (as we all know what will happen with his data in the DLC...), will she just become the main quest giver for ME3 but not be a squadmate? That's also an important role, although it doesn't leave much option for romance - you can't romance The Illusive Man or Admiral Hackett, after all.

All the characters in ME2 can die even if romanced, so they just become cameos, right? BioWare can easily make up 10 new characters for people to play with in ME3 - they did that with ME2, anyway! No need for returning squadmates at all.

'Ran off and no longer disappeared' isn't a good explanation for a former squadmate - one that is in love with Shepard - to no longer appear in ME3. It's not like they can promise people that she will appear in the next game after ME3. However, having a minor quest that opens up one option that can be noted when Mass Effect 3 comes up is better - 'We mentioned a possibility she or he could die in the last game, so they did'.

-----

And one last thing to close out this post - even though character supporters believe that showing unabashed love with 'support' threads (not to be confused with 'support' groups, apparently) just might affect the BioWare writers, you also have to realize that since this is the last game, they could easily write off or kill off the remaining squadmates or NPCs with no regret to what the fan reaction might be.

After all, if a plot twist were needed, they could simply have someone specific (like Tali or Liara or Garrus) die late in the game with their heart broken - and you know they'll add these twists that involve your past romances and squadmates to make the story unique. They'll keep it secret while flaunting the other new characters or features of the game during advertising on their next SuperBowl ad. Once everyone buys Mass Effect 3, and they've played through most of the game and see that their favorite character doesn't get the justice they deserve, they'll become infuriated and complain on the forums.

And those complaints will have no effect on sales. Why? Because spoiler threads will be deleted in the forum where people are still playing or still considering buying Mass Effect 3. And in the spoiler forum for ME3 you'll get responses like:

Why did Liara have to die at the battle of Tasale? She didn't have to be in Illium at that time! BioWare read this!
"What did you expect? I was pessimistic that it would happen all along, but at least I'm right! Ha!"
"#$@#ing writers and their stupid end game. I'm going to play ME1 now - I always thought the gameplay was better than ME2 and ME3!"
"Just pretend they didn't make ME2/ME3. It worked for The Matrix."
"Wow, I hope they don't kill any other of my favorite characters..."

how to save Kaidan and Garrus at final boss?
"You can't save them, they're supposed to die there if they survived in ME1 and ME2."
"Guys, I did some datamining - there aren't any epilogue voice files for Kaidan or Garrus. It's official."
"Looks like Garrus got tired of calibrating, hahaha"
"Kaidan couldn't evacuate from the Normandy in time because JOKER IS WAITING FOR YOU ON THE BRIDGE. Lol"

tali dating kal'reegar, WTF?
"You guys should have expected this from the writers, they always screw us over. It makes no sense that Tali would return to the fleet and date other Quarian males."
"I knew I should have killed Kal'Reegar in ME2!"
"Did you really expect that Shepard was the only one capable of cheating?"

And other fun twists like that. Sure, you can complain - but you already bought ME1, ME2 and ME3 and can't return it - Mission Accomplished for BioWare/EA. And you can't do anything about the story anymore because it's not like you'll see threads going:

Bring Back Liara! The Liara Lazarus Project in ME4! v2

Because you'd have to argue for a Mass Effect 4. And considering how pessimistic people are about not seeing squadmates in ME3 for god sakes, they can sure can be pessimistic about not seeing another continuation of Shepard's story - it is a trilogy, after all. No matter what weird twists ME3 can and will pull on the fans, none of it will matter because it is the end.

Modifié par Ecael, 15 mars 2010 - 09:14 .

[Blackveldt]

Tooneyman wrote...

I will tell bioware this and only this. Do what you can as much as you can. I support your effects in making game history. This final chapter is going to change games forever when it comes to decision making. If no one else see this. Your a bunch of ignorant dorks.

Omg LOL.  Sooo...I was listening to John Murphy's What Do You See? from the Sunshine soundtrack almost right as I read "...final chapter is going to change games forever..."

Made it a lot more epic and I couldn't help but laugh.

[Blackveldt]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
I stand corrected then.  I believe it is very unlikely.  After reading Knoll Agonar's theory, I thought his theory sounded too rigid.  But not impossible.
How about that?

Oh, much better.  See, not so hard!  In fact, I had originally agreed with the vast majority of your statements, but when you were leaning toward absolutism (or so it seemed), I felt...mmm...compelled.

I do love theorizing, however.  What am I if not an Intuitive type?

Ehm...Myers Briggs reference.

[Blackveldt]

I said, "I could not care less about default Shepard," a far cry from stating that the default game means nothing. The former is a personal notion, otherwise I would not have used 'I'; the latter is not. I am careful with how I word things. Default Shepard is not important to me personally because I personally do not want to play a character whose decisions were based on marketing--that is what I found "silly"--not speculation. Are you kidding? I love speculation--it's ingrained in me and my vocational field.

[GuardianAngel470]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Bioware is gunna have a loooooooooot of dialogue to record.

And two years of dev. when all the engine work is already completed? They'll have the time.  In fact, I hope they don't spend only a year and a half on ME3.  If they finish the main story and the extra content I hope they just keep making all of the content that got cut at the start of production.  I want as much game as possible, and I am hoping that they spend as much time as necessary to make it.

[Collider]

I have to agree in that it seems unlikely that you would need the "correct" choices in ME1 and ME2 to survive. That would seem to run counter to the Mass Effect feeling...you play your own way, and you can still win. So while I think that choices in ME1 and ME2 should aid you against the reapers, you should still be able to get a good ending regardless, maybe just through more difficulty and sacrifice.

[Knoll Argonar]

I'd say that only if you screw up enought in both ME1 and ME2 you can lose in ME3.



Like in the Suicide Mission: you actually can win easily without any casualties if you did the right choices, that can be both Paragon and Renegade. But, you may loose 2 squaddies, 4, or Kelly, or your entire crew (including Chakwas), or maybe you just play so bad that in the end Shepard gets Killed.



I think it could be something similar with ME3.