570 réponses à ce sujet

[Akrylik]

I say this for several reasons:
At the end of ME1, your new sequel goal was to stop the reapers with no no leads or strategies, but since you've already accomplished the conflict of killing Saren there's no reason to have anymore story arcs in a single installment, so at this point it would be just fine to leave it for the sequel...that very sequel providing THE VERY SAME FEELING AT ITS CONCLUSION, except without the actual satisfaction of resolving anything but plot-distracting filler.
At the end of ME2, your new sequel goal is to...stop the reapers...with no leads or strategies...wut.
Don't get me wrong, stopping the collectors is certainly a prevalent issue, but when the focus of a much bigger issue is introduced, then distracted, then reintroduced with no actual progression...that would be the definition of filler. i mean if anything was actually gained from stopping them other than ridding the reapers of a troublesome indoctrinated race, POTENTIALLY saving the collector base which could POTENTIALLY aid in the conflict against the reapers, and assimilating a new advanced crew...that is almost entirely expendible, maybe ME2 would've had some actual significance (i doubt a single human reaper would make a significant difference in the conflict against the reapers, even if it was made up of several thousands of humans, which are mostly liable civilians) In the grand scheme of things, was any of this important in stopping the reapers? The only actual significance i can sum up from ME2's is resetting the established setting for the sequel, instead of using ME1's.

Don't get me wrong, i love ME2 and in no way is this a hateful rant, and in no way am i saying that the collector conflict is pointless in its own right. But along the lines of the enourmous reaper story arc, couldn't they have given it any relevant plot devices? I would literally have no valid arguement if the ME1's ending plot reveal was, say, the collector threat, then ME2 resolved the collector threat and presented the reaper threat, but instead it goes from "plot completed, lets go kill those reapers." to "plot completed, lets go kill those reapers." hence repeating itself. It is as if ME2 could be almost completely bypassed due to it's infinitesimal contribution to the main plot, as if it were nothing more than an enourmous DLC sidequest.

aaaaand, you may all now start commenting/accusing me of hateful trolling <_<.

[Weiser_Cain]

I got together with Tali. That should be the tagline.

[GuardianAngel470]

This is very superficial i know and it isn't something I would agree to if it had been the declared purpose of the entire game but you do get proof of the reapers. Now if Bioware hadn't made the council reject the reaper threat then proof wouldn't have been necessary, but it would still be useful in getting everyone on the same page.



Like I said though, extremely superficial.

[Ecael]

Did ME2 accomplish ANYTHING plotwise?

Leather seats!

Uh, leather!

It appears that they're keeping the Reapers distant for now to dedicate a whole game to them in ME3 (as if they weren't present in either game before it).

[Talogrungi]

Impossible to say 'til ME3 hits.

If the ME2 squadmates feature prominently in the basic storyline of ME3 then the obvious answer is "Yes, it introduced important characters". Likewise, if the fate/tech of the Collector/Protheans factors heavily into the plot. If neither is true, then ME2 will go down in history as a great game, but of little relevance to the franchise.

I see where you're coming from; in ME2 we solved a problem that didn't exist in the plot of ME1. Had there been foreshadowing in the original game then it would have been far more palatable, but the plot of ME2 does lend itself easily to accusations that it was manufactured and trotted out to keep ME fans busy 'til the real story concludes in ME3.

Time will tell, I suppose.

[Talogrungi]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

This is very superficial i know and it isn't something I would agree to if it had been the declared purpose of the entire game but you do get proof of the reapers. Now if Bioware hadn't made the council reject the reaper threat then proof wouldn't have been necessary, but it would still be useful in getting everyone on the same page.

Like I said though, extremely superficial.

Do you, though? .. remember, the Council were happy to deny the existence of Reapers despite one getting blowed up over their home and them having to pick shattered pieces of it out of their bird-baths. Will a detonated Collector base in the galactic core, (or one in the hands of a terrorist organisation) and a few bits of data convince them?

[Akrylik]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

This is very superficial i know and it isn't something I would agree to if it had been the declared purpose of the entire game but you do get proof of the reapers. Now if Bioware hadn't made the council reject the reaper threat then proof wouldn't have been necessary, but it would still be useful in getting everyone on the same page.

Like I said though, extremely superficial.

im too lazy to go in depth with my OPs due to TLDRs, so instead i try to reinforce my arguement by responding to comments
well ME1 provided proof of the reapers to the point of, well, destroying one. And if stopping a genocidal force threatening the entire galaxy isn't the declared purpose of ME (at least for Shepard) i don't know what else it could possibly be, the reapers were indeed acknowledged in ME2 but no action was taken to actually stop them, only stop their ex-prothean slaves from helping them.

[glasgoo21]

ME1 universe was very small if you ask me, in ME2 at least you get to see some stuuf, you get a much larger setting. ME1 was more 'main' story driven but has a lot of I wonder what the palce looks like, I wonder what kind of planet he comes from, I would have been interested of going to that loctaion X mentioned,... ME2 tackled that much better (Had sort of more a Kotor feeling)

[eternalnightmare13]

Akrylik wrote...

It is as if ME2 could be almost completely bypassed due to it's infinitesimal contribution to the main plot, as if it were nothing more than an enourmous DLC sidequest.

This is the strongest statement, and I would tend to agree with it.  People will argue that it is the second part of a triology, and that it is mainly setting stuff up for ME3.  I'm not satisfied with that reasoning.

[Akrylik]

glasgoo21 wrote...

ME1 universe was very small if you ask me, in ME2 at least you get to see some stuuf, you get a much larger setting. ME1 was more 'main' story driven but has a lot of I wonder what the palce looks like, I wonder what kind of planet he comes from, I would have been interested of going to that loctaion X mentioned,... ME2 tackled that much better (Had sort of more a Kotor feeling)

That is what i feel ME2's single and only purpose could've been to the grand scheme, to rehash the setting to something more potent and intriguing, needless to say they succeeded epicly.

[eternalnightmare13]

Akrylik wrote...

glasgoo21 wrote...

ME1 universe was very small if you ask me, in ME2 at least you get to see some stuuf, you get a much larger setting. ME1 was more 'main' story driven but has a lot of I wonder what the palce looks like, I wonder what kind of planet he comes from, I would have been interested of going to that loctaion X mentioned,... ME2 tackled that much better (Had sort of more a Kotor feeling)

That is what i feel ME2's single and only purpose could've been to the grand scheme, to rehash the setting to something more potent and intriguing, needless to say they succeeded epicly.

But what does that have to do with the plot progressing.  The game's ''universe'' may have grown but that doesn't progress the plot of the main story.

[Jon Phoenix]

This was hardly the dark chapter (ala Empire Strikes Back) like they touted.



Why, you ask? Because they are exactly where they were when the game started. An ominous villain who is largely impotent.



The dark chapter would have had several Reapers vanguards arrive and start enslaving planets. You know Bad Guys wins the day, good guys limp away to tend their wounds and make a plan.



The final chapter would have Shepard discover a way to fight them. Usually through a miraculous discovery of an even more ancient civilization (with guns, lots of guns).

[GuardianAngel470]

Akrylik wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

This is very superficial i know and it isn't something I would agree to if it had been the declared purpose of the entire game but you do get proof of the reapers. Now if Bioware hadn't made the council reject the reaper threat then proof wouldn't have been necessary, but it would still be useful in getting everyone on the same page.

Like I said though, extremely superficial.

im too lazy to go in depth with my OPs due to TLDRs, so instead i try to reinforce my arguement by responding to comments
well ME1 provided proof of the reapers to the point of, well, destroying one. And if stopping a genocidal force threatening the entire galaxy isn't the declared purpose of ME (at least for Shepard) i don't know what else it could possibly be, the reapers were indeed acknowledged in ME2 but no action was taken to actually stop them, only stop their ex-prothean slaves from helping them.

Ok, so my point is in contention, and justifiably so.  I guess it's just wishful thinking on my part.  If it isn't irrefutable proof then there is only one option to convince the council: Samara and Mordin.  If that doesn't work then I guess the council is going to die a horrible, horrible, horrible death.

[JediPilot0]

I've said before elsewhere. Mass Effect 1 and 2's stories should be switched, with the epic citadel battle being the end of the second part.

As it is now, it feels like the scale of conflict went way down. ME1 = galactic scale, ME2 = human scale. ME2 feels much  less epic.

We didn't even know what the hell was gong on until 5 minutes before the credits where SUPRISE its a terminator. I was still scratching my head when the credits rolled. And we're left with more questions than answers. And the answeres we WERE given were vague at best. ME1 was very clear about what was happening and about what we were doing.

Modifié par JediPilot0, 14 mars 2010 - 08:30 .

[JediPilot0]

Damn, guys I've got MUCH more to say about this, but I've got to sleep. I know this was a pointless post but I'll definitely be back.



HELLO WE"RE ON A DERELICT REAPER! WHY DID WE SPEND ZERO TIME TALKING ABOUT HOW SIGNIFICANT THIS IS?

[Akrylik]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Akrylik wrote...
well ME1 provided proof of the reapers to the point of, well, destroying one. And if stopping a genocidal force threatening the entire galaxy isn't the declared purpose of ME (at least for Shepard) i don't know what else it could possibly be, the reapers were indeed acknowledged in ME2 but no action was taken to actually stop them, only stop their ex-prothean slaves from helping them.

By stopping their prothean slaves you are stopping them.  I mean not litteraly, you are actually slowing them down.  First is was sovereign and the mass relays.  You destroyed sovereign and halted the Reaper invasion by reprogramming the keepers who controlled the relays.  Now it is Harbinger remotely controlling the Reapers genetically altered slaves, the Collectors that have access to the Omega 4 relay.  We destroyed the collectors.  Unless I am missing something here?

well Sovreign's goal was to activate the citadel mass relay allowing thousands of reapers to spill into the galaxy in about a few minutes. since such plans are foiled the reapers presumably have no other choice than to manually fly into the galaxy as hinted by ME2's ending. inless the human reaper was to be created as another "vanguard of destruction" and essentially attempt to open the Citadel mass relay AGAIN (if constructed in time). Then the reapers are still just floating in space towards the milky way, combating collectors isn't going to change that.

[Akrylik]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Akrylik wrote...

glasgoo21 wrote...

ME1 universe was very small if you ask me, in ME2 at least you get to see some stuuf, you get a much larger setting. ME1 was more 'main' story driven but has a lot of I wonder what the palce looks like, I wonder what kind of planet he comes from, I would have been interested of going to that loctaion X mentioned,... ME2 tackled that much better (Had sort of more a Kotor feeling)

That is what i feel ME2's single and only purpose could've been to the grand scheme, to rehash the setting to something more potent and intriguing, needless to say they succeeded epicly.

But what does that have to do with the plot progressing.  The game's ''universe'' may have grown but that doesn't progress the plot of the main story.

right, it doesn't progress, it just resets you with a new crew and a new normandy, essentially. I personally found ME2's ending setup scenario much more satisfying than ME1's.

[InvaderErl]

Dark Energy was introduced. We learned about the Reaper reproduction angle and we stopped their second attempt at galactic domination.

[Dessad]

Well, we did learn a few new things.



We know how new Reapers are created.



We know that they have been around at least 37 million years, which is enough time for about 740 harvest cycles... which is a disturbing thought.



We learned that Humanity has been chosen as the genetic parent (ingredient) for the next Reaper, assuming they want to try to make another one.



We learned that they can control their slave species from outside the galaxy, which is no small feat for being so far away.



I am still not convinced that the Council does not believe, yes they told Shepard that they consider the Reapers a Myth, but TIM had intentionally leaked info about Shepard being back and working with Cerberus ahead of time, so perhaps the council did not want to risk Cerberus learning of their plans, and if they told Shepard then it is almost 100% certain that TIM would find out.



As for keeping it a secret from the rest of the galaxy, such things could cause a great deal of panic, which could make preparing for the threat very difficult, it is a lot easier to build up forces and research new technology when you keep things secret, and the news broadcasts often spoke of the council races rebuilding their forces, so we do know that they are beefing up their military forces.



Just theories really, we wont know anything until ME3.

[AtreiyaN7]

You missed the part where we were supposed to investigate the disappearance of human colonies and put a stop to it? The Collectors were agents of the Reapers, ones capable of maneuvering in Council space to collect samples and do research to further the Reapers' goals. I'm sure there would have been plenty of time to chit-chat about the implications of a dead Reaper, but you know, there was that pesky thing about going through the Omega-4 relay to hit the Collector base and all.

You might not be directly facing off against Sovereign II or whatever it is that you were looking for, but clearly the Reapers were involved in the plot. Whether you like it or not, this is part of a trilogy and the major showdown with the Reapers is, quite obviously, something that is a climactic event that should take place in the final game. I think the second game elaborates on what the Reapers do in each cycle of extinction and provides a bit of insight into some of their goals (though not their ultimate purpose). I enjoyed it on the level of gradually solving a mystery and putting a stop to the Collectors.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 14 mars 2010 - 09:00 .

[Akrylik]

InvaderErl wrote...

Dark Energy was introduced. We learned about the Reaper reproduction angle and we stopped their second attempt at galactic domination.

well a single human reaper isn't enough to dominate the galaxy (inless it plans to try what sovreign did) whether it lives or dies the rest of the reapers are still a present threat.
Reaper human growth and development is a nice lore explanation but none too significant, and even anti-effective to the eradication of reaper threat, less reapers are needed, not more.
and plz be more specific on the dark energy thing, dark energy is what makes mass effect fields work so it can't be introduced, though if you are referring to the haelstrom sun theory then i get what you mean, though it hardly plays a role in ME2 itself.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

InvaderErl wrote...

Dark Energy was introduced. We learned about the Reaper reproduction angle and we stopped their second attempt at galactic domination.

ahh, yes, Dark Energy.....we dismissed this as merely a myth. J/K

I'm gonna lay a bet down, that the Collectors were already "building", 'Ahnold' the superhuman reaper thingie, at the same time we were scrapping with Saren, on the Citadel.