570 réponses à ce sujet

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Shandepared wrote...


I didn't say no time had to have passed. You can still start the game off several months or several years after ME1. Immediately after the destruction of Sovereign the Council could have sent the Normandy off into the Terminus to attack geth holdouts just like they did in the final game. After several months the mission is concluded and your party member start to go their separate ways. Having Shepard die was never necessary for two reasons:

1.) Your party members already had reasons to leave

2.) If you were going to kill Shepard off why not do it at the end of ME1?

Okay, now this I really do like and could definitely see it being done, as long as your 4 squad mates don't literally up and leave. Perhaps, take one away at the beginning, then slowly weave them out. The build up would hurt quite a bit.

My one concern is still-how do you develop them as characters once they're gone? Would it all be done in ME3? Would we see progress through ME2 (which might be unrealistic, given some of their goals)? How would people take this if Liara was their LI?

What I liked about ME2 was seeing how Wrex and Liara had changed while I was gone, likewise for Tali and Garrus. Ashley/Kaidan...let's not talk about that. - _ -

You bring up a good point actually. If I were gonna suggest this for a game I'd want help to come up with a way to involve the Reapers in the plot earlier. Maybe something could be done with the Idenna and their search for a Reaper? Perhaps they come back with their Reaper and a plan to control the geth... but Tali, due to her history with Shepard, is forced to flee from the fleet and she contacts Shepard, warning him of the Migrant Fleet's plans?

Maybe that should be the main plot, instead of a focus on taking down the geth. Ultimatley you will be dealing with the geth, but in the process your main goal is to discover the nature of this Reaper. Where it came from, how the quarians found it... I'm brainstorming again.

I agree, this becomes an issue. In ME1, it was easy to incorporate the Reapers- finding out what they are was very powerful. It's not easy to investigate into them without losing their mystery.

1. As for the geth's history with the Reapers... well how were the Collectors any different? So they were Protheans, I'd say that was far more pointless than an attack on the geth. The geth are powerful, numerous, and servants of the Reapers. Far from being pointless an attack upon them is mandatory. They are allies of the Reapers and you can bet they will still be working on a way to bring them back. 

2. What I like about the geth in relation to the Reapers is that their history is a miniature version of the whole Reaper/organic conflict. The Reapers are machines that consume or destroy organic life and the geth are machines that have destroyed organic life, on a smaller scale. The geth see the Reapers as the pinnacle of synthetic evolution. They have far more compelling reasons to follow the Reapers than do the Collectors; character-less additions to Mass Effect that came and went without any build-up and left no lasting impact.

3. You think it's a good thing that you barely figh the Collectors. I disagree. Fighting geth all over the place made it apparent that you were fighting a vast enemy. On an individual basis they also had more versatility. Collectors are all the same except with the odd husk rush thrown in.

1. It felt pointless because they were 'new'. We are told Saren recently recruited them to serve Sovereign. With both Saren/Sovereign dead, I wondered why/how would they contact the Reapers- who are still lying in Dark Space? The Prothens are different because they were 50k years old- they'd been repurposed by the Reapers for quite some time and reasonably would have clues to what they were planning. The Geth never gave the impression than they were doing more than following Saren's orders.

2. I thought it was interesting as well, but remember the Reapers don't hold the Geth in much higher regard than organics. They are still 'primitive'. I also thought it gave a one-dimensional interpretation of AI- something that has the ability to think for itself. I asked myself, is all AI destined to think like the Reapers do? This might be an organic perspective. But I don't think all machines must want to destroy organics because they are organics.

3. I'm saying less encounters leaves each one feeling more alive. The Geth for example never really felt 'creepy' and felt like they were designed to be a massive army. I was also disappointed because I never felt like the Geth became smarter in numbers, despite what the Codex explains. The Collectors by contrast weren't meant to give the impression of a massive fleet and remain in the background.

Fair enough, there's room for improvement. It's just a basic outline. Everyone seems to love Legion and what he has to say and a lot of people like to speculate on whether or not the Migrant Fleet is going to go to war with the geth. So I think you could take both of those things and build something out of that.

The Migrant Fleet is divided about whether to reclaim what was lost or start something new.
The geth are divided into two distinct groups.
A quarian expedition has gone off in search of a Reaper.

Edit: ultimately, I'm not trying to provide a detailed walkthrough for how I think the game should have been done. I'm trying to convey my concept for how it should have been done, over all. There are many details that need to be ironed out.

What is hardest I think is finding a way to expand upon the Reapers in a meaningful way without having them actually show up in force.

We already stopped a Reaper from hailing them, so what else is there? The abduction of human colonies was a neat idea, as was the idea that the Reapers sort of assimilate races that they find worthy.

That could be preserved maybe. A while back I even wrote out a plan for such. The geth could easily be going around abducting small colonies to build a new god.

I like the Migrant Fleet plot-line and how they are incorporated. It would make things interesting to see how they would interfere in the Geth affair.

I also did like the Reaper assimilation idea and the idea of killing an unfinished Reaper (which gives you an indication how devastaing they are). It's just a shame they didn't do a better job of dressing it up.

[AdamBoozer]

******. The point of the whole game was basically uniting the galaxy against the reapers and recruiting the most badass kind of amabasador of their people among your crew. Jack knows the criminal underground along with garrus who could help us out with the turians, tali and legion help us get their people to reconcile their miss understandings between each other and add the force that we lost from the heritics, samara, liarra helped us get the assari, mordin the salarians and he provides a sort of currency to buy us some krogan shock troops, the rachni also for obvious reasons and grunt brings a strange element to the krogan people and wrex will help us bring the rest of people who don't wanna help in the krogans. Ash or Kaiden depending on who lived will help us in that we have a link to the alliance other then idiot TIM the darker side of the alliance.



So 1-2 is all about building relationships and 3 well three is the start of the war with our without the council.

[JediPilot0]

Oh my god. I leave for a few days, and when I come back, I nearly break my scroll wheel going down each page. It's gong to take 40 minutes to read all this.

:C

EDIT- I'll respond tonight sometime. I'm really wondering if it's worth the effort anymore. So much text....arg

Modifié par JediPilot0, 21 mars 2010 - 06:38 .

[shep82]

eternalnightmare13

This is the strongest statement, and I would tend to agree with it.  People will argue that it is the second part of a triology, and that it is mainly setting stuff up for ME3.  I'm not satisfied with that reasoning.

And why not? ME is a trillogy you can't expect everything to be resolved yet not to mention they neeed to build up the climax of the trillogy. The whole point of ME 2 was to get us more information on the coming threat of the reapers and to stop the current Collector threat. IMO ME 2 successfully answered many questions while leaving us with more unanswered ones. Perfect way to do a trillogy.

[Raphael diSanto]

Shandepared wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

 This sounds more like a mass exodus where 4 of your crew members (including fan favorites) walk out on you.

I didn't say no time had to have passed. You can still start the game off several months or several years after ME1. Immediately after the destruction of Sovereign the Council could have sent the Normandy off into the Terminus to attack geth holdouts just like they did in the final game. After several months the mission is concluded and your party member start to go their separate ways. Having Shepard die was never necessary for two reasons:

1.) Your party members already had reasons to leave

2.) If you were going to kill Shepard off why not do it at the end of ME1?

I understand your position, but I just don't see it as necessary. Having Shepard die and come back seems like a lot of trouble just to have your old squad leave. They all have solid reasons why they'd leave, so why concot an elaborate plan to kill Shepard only to bring him back to life within the span of 10 minutes?

With all the complaints circulating, this needs to be addressed.

I always thought the killing of Shepard was a contrivance to allow new players to come in and choose their own Shepard while still allowing old Shepards to be imported.

You'll note that you don't even see Shepard's face until Cerberus has their fingers in the pie and you're putting him/her back together, so for new players coming into ME2, they don't have to care what Shepard in ME 1 looked like.. or what his class was.. or anything like that.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 21 mars 2010 - 07:12 .

[smudboy]

shep82 wrote...

eternalnightmare13

This is the strongest statement, and I would tend to agree with it.  People will argue that it is the second part of a triology, and that it is mainly setting stuff up for ME3.  I'm not satisfied with that reasoning.

And why not? ME is a trillogy you can't expect everything to be resolved yet not to mention they neeed to build up the climax of the trillogy. The whole point of ME 2 was to get us more information on the coming threat of the reapers and to stop the current Collector threat. IMO ME 2 successfully answered many questions while leaving us with more unanswered ones. Perfect way to do a trillogy.

It's only a sequel if it continues from the plot setup by the previous story.  Having a 2 in the title doesn't prove anything.  Killing off/resurrecting the protagonist to fight some proxy war (Geth) and then a proxy battle (Collectors) isn't exactly the best way to do that, although I can definitely see how it can be used.  ME2 simply didn't do it coherently.

What many questions did ME2 successfully answer from ME1?  Or are you merely referring to many of the questions it itself created?  Either way I'm curious.

[glacier1701]

Been playing other games lately to take my mind of Mass Effect. Of course that means that something crops up and immediately you think of the thing you are not trying to think about. So there I was in EVE and reading over the news about the new expansion TYRANNIS (planetary interaction - trillions of people on all the planets in EVE). At that point Horizon popped into my mind and things went from bad to worse as I thought about the events that occured there. In essence at Horizon the absurdity of the very thin plot falls into a black hole and vanishes.

THE HORIZON STORY BLACK HOLE

Okie so what do I mean by that. Simply put Horizon is the first planet that we actually get some data on. I mean we get to look at its system data and not just have a short codex entry about it. And it says that the population of the planet is over 600,000. We also get the same blurb that says its a typical or average colony which I'll get to in a moment. So why is this 600,000 figure so important. Its important because of a number of factors. First - how long it takes to load those people into the Collector ship (even if they only get 200,000 its a problem). Secondly - the amount of evidence collected there and which is not used at all even though its the kind that should scare any politician into action.

So first point - lets assume that once the Collectors have reached a colony they are going to harvest it takes on average 1 minute to load 1 pod. Now this includes the WHOLE process from the landing, immobilising the population, unloading the pods and getting them to where the people are, loading the people into the pods and then getting those pods back to and onboard the ship. From the footage we see of Freedom's Progress this is not exactly a speedy process and the little we see of Horizon backs that up. Now the fun begins. If they were to take onboard the whole colony that would take 600,000 minutes  or 10,000 hours  or 416 days!!! Now you should be able to see what the problem is. Are we to assume that a colony can be left alone after contact is lost for a year or more without ANYONE checking in on it? When we finally push the Collectors off Horizon they have ONLY got about a 1/3rd of the colonists but that means 4 months or so of time!!! Did it take Shepard 4 months to reach Horizon since TIM tells us of the problem which he says "we've just lost contact with."

This is where the collecting part breaks the plot. Even if we sped up the rate of collecting we run into the other issue of how close all the colonists are to the Collector ship. While we do not see much of the colony what we do see shows that the colony is spread out. And since we are talking about 600,000 people I personally cannot see that all of them would be crammed into a tiny area. There would be a number of settlements - some on the coast (fish), some near resources (minerals) and others spread out ranching. This alone makes the collecting process even more onerous. And what about survey teams on other continents perhaps a couple of thousand kilometers away?

Once you look at this problem you think back on the other colonies. Remember we are told that Horizon is a typical or average colony. So Freedom's Progress? How many colonists there? 100,000? Ok that only means about 2 months to collect them. What about the colonies prior to Freedom's Progress? Again TIM tells us hundreds of thousands of colonists have been taken so we are NOT talking small numbers. Quite clearly then the story was not thought out in terms of time. And at Horizon it fails utterly.

As to evidence which is not then used which is my second point. OKie lets see - we got thousands (if not hundreds of thousands of witnesses if we assume that EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVERYWHERE ON THE PLANET got immobilised) and they are not crazy or connected to Shepard. We have an Alliance officer who can back that up (if not disregarded because of the Shepard connection). We have hundreds of thousands of pods (perhaps thousands is more likely) that are clearly not of known manufacture. We have dead collectors and dead husks. This is clearly NOT Geth, Pirates or Slavers. Moreover whats to stop these people telling others what went on? Any sort of denial would set the media on fire (think of what happens now when the media gets a hint of political incompetence) and there are many politicians especially those NOT in power who would use the opportunity to push their agendas by slagging those in power. Yet despite all this NOTHING changes in the Alliance or at the Council on the Citadel.


So then back to the original intent of the OP. Horizon means that ME2 did accomplish something plotwise. It killed the whole plot of the series STONE DEAD.

[Collider]

ME2 also gives you a pretty sweet team if they survived.

[greghorvath]

glacier1701: We don't know the time of the Horizon cutscene, so we don't know how much time has past since the attack. We also don't know what technology collectors use to load the pods, and the fact that we see some collectors walking amongst frozen colonists and some of them escorting pods does not necessarily mean they manually load. Even if we see a few manually load pods does not mean that is the only way to do it.



We don't know the dimensionf of Horizon colony. if it was the main part of the colony that was separated from smaller settlements, it may well have been isolated enough to support the game version of happenings.



Why would they cover their tracks? The entire game is about nobody giving a rat's ass about disappearing humans but Cerberus. (plus it is logical to assume that the dead husks and collectors you found have been killed by you, and seeing bodies dissolve pretty fast after you kill them...)



Don't be so naive to think that trivia like actual confirmed proof is enough to change the political views on a subject (just take a look at environmental policy on Earth.)



So your plot holes are pretty much full...



On the other hand, I would be greatful if someone would think of and explanation for the fact, that Ashley/Kaidan got frozen at the same time and place as Lilith, but is not loaded together with her and then liquified to goo. And where do they appear from in that enclosure (where do they go?), and how is it possible the are not in stasis any more, even though the collector ship is hardly gone...

[smudboy]

glacier1701 wrote...

Stop scaring the children.

TIM says it's "hundreds of thousands" of colonists.  Jacob says it's "tens of thousands" of colonists.  I don't even want to think of the logistics of it.

Either way, you know there's something wrong when...

[smudboy]

greghorvath wrote...

glacier1701: We don't know the time of the Horizon cutscene, so we don't know how much time has past since the attack. We also don't know what technology collectors use to load the pods, and the fact that we see some collectors walking amongst frozen colonists and some of them escorting pods does not necessarily mean they manually load. Even if we see a few manually load pods does not mean that is the only way to do it.

Why would there be other ways, other than what we're shown, on how they do things?  Why would we then assume there are more efficient ways, that we don't see, are told of or alluded to, that therefore must explain things?

Sure, it's possible.  But why the hell wouldn't they just use those methods?

We don't know the dimensionf of Horizon colony. if it was the main part of the colony that was separated from smaller settlements, it may well have been isolated enough to support the game version of happenings.

Why would they cover their tracks? The entire game is about nobody giving a rat's ass about disappearing humans but Cerberus. (plus it is logical to assume that the dead husks and collectors you found have been killed by you, and seeing bodies dissolve pretty fast after you kill them...)

Because we're told they leave no traces of their presence, aside from "tens of thousands of missing colonists" as Jacob explains?

The fact we find artefacts of husks, Collector bodies and bods at places we've gone, that we didn't kill, raises these questions.  (As does their massive ship landing and launching to/from the ground.) Obviously we've interrupted them. But that goes to show that they aren't as efficient as you might think, since they have to a) get everyone into their ship ASAP, clean up after themselves.

Don't be so naive to think that trivia like actual confirmed proof is enough to change the political views on a subject (just take a look at environmental policy on Earth.)

For one, actual confirmed proof is staggering. Collector/husk bodies.  That Cruiser crater.  A dead seeker swarm.  The Veetor omni-tool data.  Footprints.  Oh, and the the lack of people and all the families and friends connected to them.

To compare this to the climate change debate is like comparing a rock to...well, the climate change debate.

So your plot holes are pretty much full...

...of reasonable, thought out analysis?

On the other hand, I would be greatful if someone would think of and explanation for the fact, that Ashley/Kaidan got frozen at the same time and place as Lilith, but is not loaded together with her and then liquified to goo. And where do they appear from in that enclosure (where do they go?), and how is it possible the are not in stasis any more, even though the collector ship is hardly gone...

Oh so you have problems with these questions, but not the ones that glacier came up with, because you can rationalize them?

You mean the same way glacier rationalized the problem of Collector work methods to be feasible within time?

[glacier1701]

greghorvath wrote...

glacier1701: We don't know the time of the Horizon cutscene, so we don't know how much time has past since the attack. We also don't know what technology collectors use to load the pods, and the fact that we see some collectors walking amongst frozen colonists and some of them escorting pods does not necessarily mean they manually load. Even if we see a few manually load pods does not mean that is the only way to do it.

I am not saying that there is NOT another way to load the pods. Note that I am saying the WHOLE process of arriving (contact lost with the outside galaxy), landing the Collector Ship, immobilising everyone, getting the pods to where the people are, loading up the pods, getting the pods back to ship and loaded and stored on the ship and for the ship to leave. We see part of the process on Freedom's Progress and we get to see some of it on Horizon. Basically its seems manual guidance of the pods and manual loading of the pods. It is not a fast process. Now for the entire process from start to finish I postulate a 1 minute load time. This gives us a base load time and it shows the ridiculous amount of time needed. We can speed it up if you wish but we get this time problem still until we reach a speed of loading of 1 pod per second (which is not consistent with what we are shown). At that point we are down a week to load up 600k people. A couple of days for the 200k they do take now seems reasonable. The main point I am making though is that a lot of time passes yet first response is such that DAYS (at a minimum) pass. Perhaps fine for Horizon which is in Terminus space but other colonies?

greghorvath wrote...

We don't know the dimensionf of Horizon colony. if it was the main part of the colony that was separated from smaller settlements, it may well have been isolated enough to support the game version of happenings.

Why would they cover their tracks? The entire game is about nobody giving a rat's ass about disappearing humans but Cerberus. (plus it is logical to assume that the dead husks and collectors you found have been killed by you, and seeing bodies dissolve pretty fast after you kill them...)

Yes exactly in that we do not know the dimensions of the colony. But the point of the Collectors has always been NO-ONE knows what has happened. There are NO TRACES - they deliberately go in and abduct people and do so without leaving any clues (ignores a couple of things including security cameras). So on Horizon the time problem is going to be compounded if now they have to go chasing after the people in all these seperate places. However apparently the Alliance does care - it cares enough that it started supplying top of the line anti-spaceship weaponry to colonies and sent in an Alliance Officer when there were problems.

As to the bodies - this is a game thing and NOT something special to just Collectors or Husks. If you say that the Collector bodies dissolve because of something special in them then does this also apply to all merc bodies? All Varren bodies? Mechs? The human colonists you kill in Jacob's Loyalty mission? After all they all 'vanish' as well (provided you do not use incendary or cryo on them). So just because the bodies vanish on Horizon does not mean anything special - if it did then it needs to have been pointed out - it was not so we cannot assume that anything special is going on.

greghorvath wrote...

Don't be so naive to think that trivia like actual confirmed proof is enough to change the political views on a subject (just take a look at environmental policy on Earth.)

I am not naive to think that some politicians will bury their heads in the sand and hope bad things go away. However what I am saying is that the mass of evidence is going to create a media frenzy. If its one thing that policitians do not like its unfavourable press (unless you happen to live in an area without freedom of the press). Indeed there is some reaction to the news from Horizon - the Salarians are ramping up STG efforts at gathering intel and the Turians are ramping up military recruitment. Yet the Alliance is doing nothing and the Council (which is SEPERATE from the governments of the various species that make it up) is in denial. Some people think something is going on but the 2 that affect Shepard do nothing.

greghorvath wrote...
So your plot holes are pretty much full...

Never claimed it was a plot hole but a storyline that was not thought through. Because of the problems it ends up breaking the whole game plotwise at that point.

greghorvath wrote...

On the other hand, I would be greatful if someone would think of and explanation for the fact, that Ashley/Kaidan got frozen at the same time and place as Lilith, but is not loaded together with her and then liquified to goo. And where do they appear from in that enclosure (where do they go?), and how is it possible the are not in stasis any more, even though the collector ship is hardly gone...

 Easy enough - orientation of where the Collector ship lands and the point at which Ashley/Kaiden are frozen is not made clear at all. Remember that from the cutscene the Collector ship is PASSING OVER the colony when the swarm first appears. So the first people frozen can in actual fact be the ones FURTHEST away from the Collector ship when it touches down. Ashley/Kaiden is pretty much the first person frozen. Lilith is frozen later so is closer to the ship and thus is taken earlier. (Indeed this does give some more credence to the fact that collecting the colonists is NOT a fast process.)

As to the stasis thing - this is not explained at all but just seems to be ignored. While I could make up some explanation there is no basis within the game that can validate it.

[Gabey5]

hmmm nope other than collectors identity and revealing harbringer

[BaladasDemnevanni]

glacier1701 wrote...

1. As to evidence which is not then used which is my second point. OKie lets see - we got thousands (if not hundreds of thousands of witnesses if we assume that EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVERYWHERE ON THE PLANET got immobilised) and they are not crazy or connected to Shepard.

2. We have an Alliance officer who can back that up (if not disregarded because of the Shepard connection). We have hundreds of thousands of pods (perhaps thousands is more likely) that are clearly not of known manufacture. We have dead collectors and dead husks. This is clearly NOT Geth, Pirates or Slavers. Moreover whats to stop these people telling others what went on?

3. Any sort of denial would set the media on fire (think of what happens now when the media gets a hint of political incompetence) and there are many politicians especially those NOT in power who would use the opportunity to push their agendas by slagging those in power. Yet despite all this NOTHING changes in the Alliance or at the Council on the Citadel.


So then back to the original intent of the OP. Horizon means that ME2 did accomplish something plotwise. It killed the whole plot of the series STONE DEAD.

1. Okay, so this 'proves' the existence of the Collectors, a fringe group that makes its way throughout the Terminus Systems. They have been known for making illicit exchanges with mercenary groups in exchange for specimens of various species. On the whole, they've kept their existence an 'open secret'.

2. Yes, it's not Geth, Pirates, or Slavers. It's the Collectors. The Council and Alliance have generally embraced a policy which says that whoever lives beyond the Terminus systems does so at their own risk. Now you might think this is BS. But how is this any different from the Geth attack on Eden Prime, where Sovereign is recorded on camera? I would think this too would merit open warfare of some kind, not merely 'investigation' by a shiny new Spectre.

3. Meh, we're never given the grand scope of the media, which I would have appreciated. I would think Saren, the top-agent of the Council, being revealed as a traitor and the Geth attack on Eden Prime would warrant some sort of political repercussions, but nothing is seen there, is it?

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 22 mars 2010 - 06:16 .

[glacier1701]

greghorvath wrote...


So your plot holes are pretty much full...

If you want plot holes here is one that so far as I can tell no-one has mentioned before. You are onboard the reaper derelict and you face husks, abominations and SCIONS!!!! Scions and abominations are the result of Collector experiments on humans. So how can a dead 37 million year old Reaper produce SCIONS or abominations. Husks are fine. But the other types?

[BaladasDemnevanni]

glacier1701 wrote...

If you want plot holes here is one that so far as I can tell no-one has mentioned before. You are onboard the reaper derelict and you face husks, abominations and SCIONS!!!! Scions and abominations are the result of Collector experiments on humans. So how can a dead 37 million year old Reaper produce SCIONS or abominations. Husks are fine. But the other types?

Wait a minute, I could be wrong (This is coming from the Mass Effect wiki), but I thought Scions and Abominations were merely alternate types of husks?

[glacier1701]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

If you want plot holes here is one that so far as I can tell no-one has mentioned before. You are onboard the reaper derelict and you face husks, abominations and SCIONS!!!! Scions and abominations are the result of Collector experiments on humans. So how can a dead 37 million year old Reaper produce SCIONS or abominations. Husks are fine. But the other types?

Wait a minute, I could be wrong (This is coming from the Mass Effect wiki), but I thought Scions and Abominations were merely alternate types of husks?

Nope they are genetic experiments done on humans to produce something more than just cannon fodder husks. Trying to find the post on the old boards that explained that. Or was it a video on enemies?  Hmmmm.......

Okie found the video. Can be found here.  Find the ENEMIES vid - its the one with the picture of the Collector on it. BTW I found it interesting in that some of the things supposedly in game actually do not seem to be there.

Modifié par glacier1701, 22 mars 2010 - 06:46 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

glacier1701 wrote...

Nope they are genetic experiments done on humans to produce something more than just cannon fodder husks. Trying to find the post on the old boards that explained that. Or was it a video on enemies?  Hmmmm.......

Okie found the video. Can be found here.  Find the ENEMIES vid - its the one with the picture of the Collector on it. BTW I found it interesting in that some of the things supposedly in game actually do not seem to be there.

Okay, but I was hoping for something more in the form of in-game evidence, which points out that Scions/Abominations are the result of Collector experimentation: cut scene or dialogue, etc. 

People often complain about certain consistency problems the game presents with the Collectors and squad members such as Liara, but when the 'novels' are cited as evidence, it's disregarded because it must come from the game. A developer video is nice, but unless Bioware incorporated this idea into the game, we have no reason to believe that Scions/Abominations are anything other than an alternate type of Husk which the Reapers command since all evidence must be in-game.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 22 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[glacier1701]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

Nope they are genetic experiments done on humans to produce something more than just cannon fodder husks. Trying to find the post on the old boards that explained that. Or was it a video on enemies?  Hmmmm.......

Okie found the video. Can be found here.  Find the ENEMIES vid - its the one with the picture of the Collector on it. BTW I found it interesting in that some of the things supposedly in game actually do not seem to be there.

Okay, but I was hoping for something more in the form of in-game evidence, which points out that Scions/Abominations are the result of Collector experimentation: cut scene or dialogue, etc. 

People often complain about certain consistency problems the game presents with the Collectors and squad members such as Liara, but when people mention the 'novels' as evidence, it's disregarded because it must come from the game. A developer video is nice, but unless Bioware incorporated this idea into the game, we have no reason to believe that Scions/Abominations are anything other than an alternate type of Husk which the Reapers command.

Well we do have the conversation on Horizon that is iniated when you come across the husk body. Basically it says that the husk is "more advanced. Looks like the colonists are being taken for experiments." And then onboard the Collector ship later on you when you come across the pile of dead bodies we get into talk about experiments being done on the colonists and apparently there are terrible ways to die. While not specifically pointing to abominations and scions the evidence shows that the husks being faced are the results of somethinig the collectors have done. I'll point out that we face those 'advanced' husks as well on the derelict Reaper when we shouldnt but the thing is that the abominations and scions should not be there.

Oh and also on Horizon we got the whole thing about the fact that these husks and so on had to have been brought in by the Collectors since there were no dragon's teeth on Horizon. So not definet ingame proof but indications that the Collectors were not turning all the humans into goo.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

glacier1701 wrote...

1. Well we do have the conversation on Horizon that is iniated when you come across the husk body. Basically it says that the husk is "more advanced. Looks like the colonists are being taken for experiments." And then onboard the Collector ship later on you when you come across the pile of dead bodies we get into talk about experiments being done on the colonists and apparently there are terrible ways to die. While not specifically pointing to abominations and scions the evidence shows that the husks being faced are the results of somethinig the collectors have done. I'll point out that we face those 'advanced' husks as well on the derelict Reaper when we shouldnt but the thing is that the abominations and scions should not be there.

2. Oh and also on Horizon we got the whole thing about the fact that these husks and so on had to have been brought in by the Collectors since there were no dragon's teeth on Horizon. So not definet ingame proof but indications that the Collectors were not turning all the humans into goo.

1. So this does mean we see an alternate type of Husk. And we did happen to experience it for the first time on the Collector Ship. At the time, I could see how that's a possible conclusion. Yet later we learn that humans are being used to create more Reapers, not just experimentation. At one time we also thought that Saren wanted to exterminate all humans with the Conduit, but we later found out he was being controlled by Sovereign.

We do know that husks are already a Reaper creation and Collectors have had 50k years worth of interaction with Reapers. If we found them on a derelict Reaper, more than anything it indicates that these are not the work of the Collectors, whatever we might have assumed. It's the Reapers who are responsible.

2. They weren't brought in from Horizon, but you did give the Husks a pass for being placed on the derelict Reaper. I wouldn't say they're all being turned into goo, but how does this show the Abominations/Scions were a result of experimentation? They're just results of the Reapers which they did not present the Geth with.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 22 mars 2010 - 07:29 .