314 réponses à ce sujet

[baller7345]

LxLegend wrote...

I've read much of this thread and many good points are made throughout. After playing a soldier, 2 infiltrators, then an adept, and vanguard I can say that powers need to reviewed for ME3.

It's not only that powers are weak compared to guns but that using non-class and non-ammo powers slow down and remove the "intenstity" of combat.

To improve powers I think the easiest way would be to just increase the amount of damage biotic and tech powers do to all immunities (shields/barriers/armor). Then the primary squadmates for any adept or engineer would be advanced weapon users like Garrus, Legion, and Zaeed which makes more sense than an adept bringing two more biotics users.

I'm not sure increasing the damage that powers to to immunites will fix your problem because most defense on insanity can be stripped with one use of powers.  This dicussion is also about normal since the OP wanted to go with the difficulty that the game is balanced around.  On normal (in my memoy...could be wrong) most things die when hit with a heavy version of a power so increasing damage would not fix what people are saying is the major problem.

[LxLegend]

baller7345 wrote...

LxLegend wrote...

I've read much of this thread and many good points are made throughout. After playing a soldier, 2 infiltrators, then an adept, and vanguard I can say that powers need to reviewed for ME3.

It's not only that powers are weak compared to guns but that using non-class and non-ammo powers slow down and remove the "intenstity" of combat.

To improve powers I think the easiest way would be to just increase the amount of damage biotic and tech powers do to all immunities (shields/barriers/armor). Then the primary squadmates for any adept or engineer would be advanced weapon users like Garrus, Legion, and Zaeed which makes more sense than an adept bringing two more biotics users.

I'm not sure increasing the damage that powers to to immunites will fix your problem because most defense on insanity can be stripped with one use of powers.  This dicussion is also about normal since the OP wanted to go with the difficulty that the game is balanced around.  On normal (in my memoy...could be wrong) most things die when hit with a heavy version of a power so increasing damage would not fix what people are saying is the major problem.

I wouldn't advocate an increase of damage against health for biotic or tech powers.  Also on veteran and below I think the powers work just fine, but on hardcore and above that's where powers really fall from grace and where I start wishing I could trade that wussy smg for an assualt rifle.

Also the reason I recommend increase power damage only against immunities is because then it wouldn't completely through off the balance of the classes on lower difficulties where enemies have less immunities to begin with than on hardcore and insanity.

[baller7345]

LxLegend wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

LxLegend wrote...

I've read much of this thread and many good points are made throughout. After playing a soldier, 2 infiltrators, then an adept, and vanguard I can say that powers need to reviewed for ME3.

It's not only that powers are weak compared to guns but that using non-class and non-ammo powers slow down and remove the "intenstity" of combat.

To improve powers I think the easiest way would be to just increase the amount of damage biotic and tech powers do to all immunities (shields/barriers/armor). Then the primary squadmates for any adept or engineer would be advanced weapon users like Garrus, Legion, and Zaeed which makes more sense than an adept bringing two more biotics users.

I'm not sure increasing the damage that powers to to immunites will fix your problem because most defense on insanity can be stripped with one use of powers.  This dicussion is also about normal since the OP wanted to go with the difficulty that the game is balanced around.  On normal (in my memoy...could be wrong) most things die when hit with a heavy version of a power so increasing damage would not fix what people are saying is the major problem.

I wouldn't advocate an increase of damage against health for biotic or tech powers.  Also on veteran and below I think the powers work just fine, but on hardcore and above that's where powers really fall from grace and where I start wishing I could trade that wussy smg for an assualt rifle.

Also the reason I recommend increase power damage only against immunities is because then it wouldn't completely through off the balance of the classes on lower difficulties where enemies have less immunities to begin with than on hardcore and insanity.

Increasing power damage against protections wouldn't be all that useful for stripping defenses though.  You can take out defenses on insantiy with one use and since none of that damage bleeds over into health an increase in damage against protection wouldn't do much.  Basically what am I missing. 

[LxLegend]

baller7345 wrote...

Increasing power damage against protections wouldn't be all that useful for stripping defenses though.  You can take out defenses on insantiy with one use and since none of that damage bleeds over into health an increase in damage against protection wouldn't do much.  Basically what am I missing. 

That once those protections are gone the physics effects of the powers kick in.  Singularities toss people around the room and powers like throw, shockwave and pull become useful again as a form of crowd control.  Cryo starts freezing enemies, and incinerate starts fires again.

Not only that but because the powers are more effective against the protection it balances the lack of powerful weapons for the adept and engineer classes.

Modifié par LxLegend, 16 mars 2010 - 05:49 .

[baller7345]

LxLegend wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

Increasing power damage against protections wouldn't be all that useful for stripping defenses though.  You can take out defenses on insantiy with one use and since none of that damage bleeds over into health an increase in damage against protection wouldn't do much.  Basically what am I missing. 

That once those protections are gone the physics effects of the powers kick in.  Singularities toss people around the room and powers like throw, shockwave and pull become useful again as a form of crowd control.  Cryo starts freezing enemies, and incinerate starts fires again.

Not only that but because the powers are more effective against the protection it balances the lack of powerful weapons for the adept and engineer classes.

I know this but it isn't really a damage issue so much as it is an effect issue.  People want their abilities to have some effect when the defenses are up such as cryo slowing or reducing accuracy.  Pretty much like overload overheats weapons.  Increasing damage to protections would fix that issue it would just mean you would do a bunch of damage that isnt' needed to strip a barrier or sheild.  Of course if you want the adept to be able to deal with sheilds then the increase in damage could work but I for one like each of the classes having some sort of a weakness...which is part of the reason I tend to like the infiltrator less than power classes.   Same with the soldier.  The vanguard has a weakness and it is distance so that works fine IMO.

Sorry if I'm not understanding your postion I've had very little sleep and I could just be too tired to see it but if its just increasing damge to protections I don't see how it helps that much.

[Lycidas]

a08m08 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

I think we can see one big problem of the Adept class when we look at the squad builds. Your squad is a good way to cover your own weaknesses so naturally you will take squadmates with you that can do things your class can not do as good. As a Adept however you will want to go with 2 more biotics (exactly the thing you should be the best at).
Why is that?
Why is it that the Adept will feel significantly less fun whenever you need to bing 2 tech experts with you (like geth maps)?
It is because of the way cooldowns are atm. The only way to use biotics in a fluid way is to combine your powers with the ones of your team. The moment you're the only biotic the game feels slowed down and way less exiting. 6 seconds of waiting for your powers to cool down after just one warp, thats hardly what I would call a fast paced shooter feeling. Thats 6 seconds you can only do the one thing that every other class is better at, firing your gun.

Edit: And it is 6 seconds to just remove the defenses of ONE enemy (an Infilitrator would have killed the same target with a single sniper rifle shot).

All very valid points I would just like to point out that if you spend the resources on upgrading (and with NG+ you automatically start with more EeZo than you need to fully upgrade everything that requires EeZo) you're biotics and Tech you end up with a total 40% cooldown reduction so that six seconds turns into about 3.4 seconds. So yes your point remains true and valid, I'm just pointing out that its not all as bad as some are making it out to be. Add to that the maximum 65% damage boost (full upgrades+nemesis) and your warp is doing approx. 330 damage which is doubled against armor, barriers, and during warp explosions. Pretty dang powerful move at that point.

It is powerfull there is no doubt about that and I'm not saying warp itself should be on a shorter cooldown. What I say is you should not be locked out of all your skills for the entire time that one needs to cool down.
I mean isn't it obvious that the current cooldown system punishes power heavy classes way more than others. And this will only get worse the more powers we get.

Edit: Think about bonus powers like Barrier. This is a skill that could help the Adept in tense situations but nobody would ever use it atm just because it locks you out of everything else for so freaking long.

Modifié par Lycidas, 16 mars 2010 - 06:10 .

[LxLegend]

baller7345 wrote...

LxLegend wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

Increasing power damage against protections wouldn't be all that useful for stripping defenses though.  You can take out defenses on insantiy with one use and since none of that damage bleeds over into health an increase in damage against protection wouldn't do much.  Basically what am I missing. 

That once those protections are gone the physics effects of the powers kick in.  Singularities toss people around the room and powers like throw, shockwave and pull become useful again as a form of crowd control.  Cryo starts freezing enemies, and incinerate starts fires again.

Not only that but because the powers are more effective against the protection it balances the lack of powerful weapons for the adept and engineer classes.

I know this but it isn't really a damage issue so much as it is an effect issue.  People want their abilities to have some effect when the defenses are up such as cryo slowing or reducing accuracy.  Pretty much like overload overheats weapons.  Increasing damage to protections would fix that issue it would just mean you would do a bunch of damage that isnt' needed to strip a barrier or sheild.  Of course if you want the adept to be able to deal with sheilds then the increase in damage could work but I for one like each of the classes having some sort of a weakness...which is part of the reason I tend to like the infiltrator less than power classes.   Same with the soldier.  The vanguard has a weakness and it is distance so that works fine IMO.

Sorry if I'm not understanding your postion I've had very little sleep and I could just be too tired to see it but if its just increasing damge to protections I don't see how it helps that much.

Having power effects through immunities would bring powers back to the state they were in for ME1 making adept and engineer overpowered.  Really if you have the pc version of the game you can play like that now by setting shieldsblockpowers to false in your ini file. 

I played freedom's progress like that then immediately turned it back on because it made the game too easy.  Heavy mechs could just be pulled off the ground and singularied without ever having a chance to hurt the player it totally killed the challenge.  So having power effects through immunities woudln't work with system the way it is now, which is why I suggested making powers more useful against the immunities to compensate for lack of firepower.   

[baller7345]

LxLegend wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

LxLegend wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

Increasing power damage against protections wouldn't be all that useful for stripping defenses though.  You can take out defenses on insantiy with one use and since none of that damage bleeds over into health an increase in damage against protection wouldn't do much.  Basically what am I missing. 

That once those protections are gone the physics effects of the powers kick in.  Singularities toss people around the room and powers like throw, shockwave and pull become useful again as a form of crowd control.  Cryo starts freezing enemies, and incinerate starts fires again.

Not only that but because the powers are more effective against the protection it balances the lack of powerful weapons for the adept and engineer classes.

I know this but it isn't really a damage issue so much as it is an effect issue.  People want their abilities to have some effect when the defenses are up such as cryo slowing or reducing accuracy.  Pretty much like overload overheats weapons.  Increasing damage to protections would fix that issue it would just mean you would do a bunch of damage that isnt' needed to strip a barrier or sheild.  Of course if you want the adept to be able to deal with sheilds then the increase in damage could work but I for one like each of the classes having some sort of a weakness...which is part of the reason I tend to like the infiltrator less than power classes.   Same with the soldier.  The vanguard has a weakness and it is distance so that works fine IMO.

Sorry if I'm not understanding your postion I've had very little sleep and I could just be too tired to see it but if its just increasing damge to protections I don't see how it helps that much.

Having power effects through immunities would bring powers back to the state they were in for ME1 making adept and engineer overpowered.  Really if you have the pc version of the game you can play like that now by setting shieldsblockpowers to false in your ini file. 

I played freedom's progress like that then immediately turned it back on because it made the game too easy.  Heavy mechs could just be pulled off the ground and singularied without ever having a chance to hurt the player it totally killed the challenge.  So having power effects through immunities woudln't work with system the way it is now, which is why I suggested making powers more useful against the immunities to compensate for lack of firepower.   

I get that and I completely agree (I actually like the way you can't lift entire rooms off the ground now) but i don't  see increasing damage of a power that already one shots a defense as an improvement it just seems redundant.  The adept can one shot armor and barriers with warp and th engineer can one shot armor and shields with incinerate and overload while barriers are a weakness for the engineer and sheilds for the adept.  If it is to help with this weakness then I disagree since I think the weaknesses are good for the classes.  If it is to let you one shot defenses early then perhaps it has some use but I don't see it being major.  Now if it is so that using the other abilites to take out defenses as well then that could be useful for some people (sort of like how you can heavy throw barriers just as fast as a warp + cooldown).  While that would be cool it wouldn't really be a big help in my opinion since even as the system is now cryoblast is my most used ability even though it does next to nothing against shields and armor and with added damage it would just get used more.

[LxLegend]

In veteran and below what I'm suggesting wouldn't make a difference. The difference comes during hardcore and insanity where nearly every enemy has at least one immunity and bosses get significant bonus to the amount of that immunity. On the higher difficulties one use of a fully graded power doesn't eliminate a defense it takes at least two uses so the suggestion isn't redundant given the conditions it's recommended for especially with insanity difficulty.

From my view powers veteran and below are fine and don't need changing (as far as effectiveness goes) which why I wouldn't add damage against health just the immunities which other classes already have no problem blowing throw with the greatest of ease.

Modifié par LxLegend, 16 mars 2010 - 06:50 .

[baller7345]

LxLegend wrote...

In veteran and below what I'm suggesting wouldn't make a difference. The difference comes during hardcore and insanity where nearly every enemy has at least one immunity and bosses get significant bonus to the amount of that immunity. On the higher difficulties one of use of a fully graded power doesn't eliminate a defense it takes two uses so the suggestion isn't redundant given the conditions it's recommended for especially with insanity difficulty.
From my view powers veteran and below are fine and don't need changing (as far as effectiveness goes) which why I wouldn't add damage against health just the immunities which other classes already have no problem blowing throw with the greatest of ease.

Unless damage is done differently on the 360 then powers take out defenses in one shot on insanity.  If there is a difference then it simply opens up a completely new issue but on the 360 one heavy concussive shot, warp, and reave all take out barriers.  Overload, and shield drain one hit shields and incinerate and warp both one shot armor.

EDIT:  The bosses and elites aren't quite as quick to go down defensively but they should be able to be killed just like every other trooper.

Modifié par baller7345, 16 mars 2010 - 06:59 .

[cruc1al]

baller7345 wrote...

LxLegend wrote...

In veteran and below what I'm suggesting wouldn't make a difference. The difference comes during hardcore and insanity where nearly every enemy has at least one immunity and bosses get significant bonus to the amount of that immunity. On the higher difficulties one of use of a fully graded power doesn't eliminate a defense it takes two uses so the suggestion isn't redundant given the conditions it's recommended for especially with insanity difficulty.
From my view powers veteran and below are fine and don't need changing (as far as effectiveness goes) which why I wouldn't add damage against health just the immunities which other classes already have no problem blowing throw with the greatest of ease.

Unless damage is done differently on the 360 then powers take out defenses in one shot on insanity.  If there is a difference then it simply opens up a completely new issue but on the 360 one heavy concussive shot, warp, and reave all take out barriers.  Overload, and shield drain one hit shields and incinerate and warp both one shot armor.

Of course all those depend on the type of enemy and at what level you have all upgrades.

EDIT: A level 22 soldier can't even nearly take out a Collector Drone's barrier with a heavy concussive shot. About 3/4 (on PC, but it shouldn't make any difference at all).

Modifié par cruc1al, 16 mars 2010 - 07:13 .

[baller7345]

cruc1al wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

LxLegend wrote...

In veteran and below what I'm suggesting wouldn't make a difference. The difference comes during hardcore and insanity where nearly every enemy has at least one immunity and bosses get significant bonus to the amount of that immunity. On the higher difficulties one of use of a fully graded power doesn't eliminate a defense it takes two uses so the suggestion isn't redundant given the conditions it's recommended for especially with insanity difficulty.
From my view powers veteran and below are fine and don't need changing (as far as effectiveness goes) which why I wouldn't add damage against health just the immunities which other classes already have no problem blowing throw with the greatest of ease.

Unless damage is done differently on the 360 then powers take out defenses in one shot on insanity.  If there is a difference then it simply opens up a completely new issue but on the 360 one heavy concussive shot, warp, and reave all take out barriers.  Overload, and shield drain one hit shields and incinerate and warp both one shot armor.

Of course all those depend on the type of enemy and at what level you have all upgrades.

On NG+ I was able to overload shields and incinerate armor in one shot from the very beginning with no upgrades.  It may be different for a regular NG but once fully levled I would think they would have pretty much the same  effect.

Modifié par baller7345, 16 mars 2010 - 07:04 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Alright, I'll bite.

I disagree that powers are weak in this game compared to weapons. Sure they are not anywhere near as overpowered and imbalanced as in ME1, something I think most of us are very happy about. However powers like overload can instantly remove the shields of several enemies, saving you lots of time having to shoot at them, or take a look at pull which not only locks down your foe but also gives you a 100% damage bonus with your weapons, thats very powerful (or combo it with another biotic power for instant kills as you of all people know ).
Also remember that the most effective adept in ME1 was usually considered an Adept with a Assault Rifle. So it's not something new to the ME gameplay really. Guns is the main way to kill things, powers are meant to make it easier to kill things, and they do so effectively.

I'd also argue that it requires less thought and tactical thinking to play a Adept or even an engineer on insanity then it does a Charging Vanguard. Just did a few missions now with my adept and much to my shock I discovered I had forgotten to buy any upgrades at all and I'd been through horizon and Tali's recruitment on insanity. After I went shopping, it just felt ridiculously easy, with next to no risk involved. All you really have to do is throw out a singularity and combine powers and weapons into a mix that will just kill anything with barely any effort.

Ps any chance of a link to this thing? Edit: Found it

This has been my experience as well.  The Adept/Engineer have powerful abilities, you just have to use them in tandem with your weaponry.  I just did Garrus' loyalty mission last night on an Engineer, it was dramatically easier than on a soldier.  I think people heavily overestimate the soldier class.  Hardened Adrenaline Rush is an amazing ability, yes, but the class as a whole is lacking in so many ways.  First off, it's boring as hell to turn on a passive skill, then mash 1 button.  You have little in terms of tactics.  It's always 'activate proper ammo, spam AR and snipe or unload with AR'. 

I do think the Infiltrator/Vanguard are both superbly fun by comparison.  Having Incinerate and the time dilation for every sniper shot makes those head explosions from the Widow very gratifying.  On the Vanguard, the playstyle is so dramatically different.  The phrase, 'high risk, high reward' is spot on in this case.  You have to know exactly where you need to charge.  One wrong target and you end up a smear on the floor.  Both of these classes felt very powerful while still being incredibly fun to play.

The Sentinel is just an Adept with more shields and overload, essentially.  It's an enjoyable class, but just like the engineer/Adept, your primary focus is your abilities.  Your guns don't go on cooldown, so toss a Warp/Incinerate between when you're trying to burn something, they do more damage than the 1-2 shots you can take during its' animation.  The classes are meant to shoot between cooldowns.  Toss a warp, put a couple Carnifex rounds into enemy heads, repeat, etc. 

The difference between these classes and the three more weapon focused ones is that they have options in combat.  It isn't just 'shoot shoot shoot' or 'charge charge charge'.  Do you use a drone to distract while you advance, or toss the incinerate and shoot to kill?  Do you singularity the big guy, or the swarm of husks approaching?  They have options. 

I loved the Soldier in ME1.  It was my favorite class.  But in retrospect, why is that so?  I liked the heavy armor.  Being more durable is a big plus for me.  That advantage is gone now, durability is ability based.  But that wasn't the main reason, any class could be that durable once you picked up a suit of Collosus armor.  So why, then?  I think it was entirely based on the fact that the soldier didn't need to pause the game 10 times per battle.  Now that the other classes can bind the majority of their abilities, I don't have to pause, and now I can actually enjoy using them.  I don't need a pause screen to think tactically, the pausing just slows the game down.  You can max 5 abilities in-game now.  1 of them will be the passive, usually I take an ammo for the bonus power(either AP or Warp).  That means I'll only need 3 mapped keys.  That's just perfect. 

[sinosleep]

baller7345 wrote...
On NG+ I was able to overload shields and incinerate armor in one shot from the very beginning with no upgrades.  It may be different for a regular NG but once fully levled I would think they would have pretty much the same  effect.

It's not just NG +. On every game I've ever started on PC defense stripping abilities knock out defenses in their entirety on standard mobs. Husks, Loki Mechs, Verren, Vorcha, all go down from one incinerate. Eclipse and blue suns mercs all get their shields popped in one overload. Collector's get their barriers completely destroyed by lvl 4 reave (on Shepard, Samara's leaves a sliver of it), etc, etc, etc. The guys that take multiple shots are Krogan, Commandos, and the like. 

[Lycidas]

sinosleep wrote...

baller7345 wrote...
On NG+ I was able to overload shields and incinerate armor in one shot from the very beginning with no upgrades.  It may be different for a regular NG but once fully levled I would think they would have pretty much the same  effect.

It's not just NG +. On every game I've ever started on PC defense stripping abilities knock out defenses in their entirety on standard mobs. Husks, Loki Mechs, Verren, Vorcha, all go down from one incinerate. Eclipse and blue suns mercs all get their shields popped in one overload. Collector's get their barriers completely destroyed by lvl 4 reave (on Shepard, Samara's leaves a sliver of it), etc, etc, etc. The guys that take multiple shots are Krogan, Commandos, and the like. 

If I remember correctly Guardians and Assassins don't the rest is right tho.

[sinosleep]

I'd consider Guardians and Assasins to be part of the "and the like" portion of non standard mobs.

[cruc1al]

sinosleep wrote...

I'd consider Guardians and Assasins to be part of the "and the like" portion of non standard mobs.

But you can't take down their barriers with one reave or warp, right?

EDIT: Tested it on NG+ adept insanity on horizon, one heavy warp took down about a quarter of a Guardian's barrier. I didn't have many upgrades, but even if I had all available bonuses it wouldn't take even nearly all of it down.

EDIT: Nvm. *facepalm*

Modifié par cruc1al, 16 mars 2010 - 08:07 .

[Lycidas]

sinosleep wrote...

I'd consider Guardians and Assasins to be part of the "and the like" portion of non standard mobs.

I see.

Edit: Better to say I thought so but was not quite as sure about everybody else reading your post.

Modifié par Lycidas, 16 mars 2010 - 08:03 .

[Lycidas]

cruc1al wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I'd consider Guardians and Assasins to be part of the "and the like" portion of non standard mobs.

But you can't take down their barriers with one reave or warp, right?

EDIT: Tested it on NG+ adept insanity on horizon, one heavy warp took down about a quarter of a Guardian's barrier. I didn't have many upgrades, but even if I had all available bonuses it wouldn't take even nearly all of it down.

Thats why he said he counted them under "non standard mobs".

[cruc1al]

Lycidas wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I'd consider Guardians and Assasins to be part of the "and the like" portion of non standard mobs.

But you can't take down their barriers with one reave or warp, right?

EDIT: Tested it on NG+ adept insanity on horizon, one heavy warp took down about a quarter of a Guardian's barrier. I didn't have many upgrades, but even if I had all available bonuses it wouldn't take even nearly all of it down.

Thats why he said he counted them under "non standard mobs".

I fail at reading comprehension.

[sinosleep]

Lycidas wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I'd consider Guardians and Assasins to be part of the "and the like" portion of non standard mobs.

I see.

Edit: Better to say I thought so but was not quite as sure about everybody else reading your post.

Yeah, I included two merc specialists but didn't include a collector one. That would have made my post clearer. Should have said Krogan, Commanders, Guardians, and the like. 

[skarlson]

You hit the nail on the head of what a lot of people have been saying from the start. The ability based classes are asked to play in a game designed for guns with guns they do not get. Instead they get abilities that are purposely weakened so classes must rely more on guns which again they do not receive. Interestingly enough if cheat and give yourself guns like say the sniper rifle you will find yourself more or less relying on the gun because it just does the job so well. You will also find yourself at some point thinking I should use powers more, not because powers are just so awesome, rather just so that you can justify having taken an adept or engineer over a gun class.

[LxLegend]

baller7345 wrote...

On NG+ I was able to overload shields and incinerate armor in one shot from the very beginning with no upgrades.  It may be different for a regular NG but once fully levled I would think they would have pretty much the same  effect.

I'm not just talking about warp and incinerate.  I'm also talking about shockwave, pull, throw, and cryoblast those abilites that do next to no damage on shields and just sit there on our power wheel and make Jack the weakest squadmember to bring along even during her own loyality mission.

It was my mistake for not making that clearer in my first post.

Modifié par LxLegend, 17 mars 2010 - 04:36 .

[baller7345]

skarlson wrote...

You hit the nail on the head of what a lot of people have been saying from the start. The ability based classes are asked to play in a game designed for guns with guns they do not get. Instead they get abilities that are purposely weakened so classes must rely more on guns which again they do not receive. Interestingly enough if cheat and give yourself guns like say the sniper rifle you will find yourself more or less relying on the gun because it just does the job so well. You will also find yourself at some point thinking I should use powers more, not because powers are just so awesome, rather just so that you can justify having taken an adept or engineer over a gun class.

I've never relied heavily on guns as an Engineer.  I may use a few burts of my smg for barriers and I will use the sniper rifle(its not a cheat if you get it on the collector ship) for YMIR mechs.  For the most part I use my powers and my characters fists.  I focus on stripping everyone of their defenses with overload/incinerate and then use a combination of the drone and cryo freeze to make most of the enmies helpless.

If I compare the amount of shooting I do Mass Effect 2 with Mass Effect 1 I find I shoot much less since I no longer rely on marksman for damage  after using my tech mines.  Now I shoot only the thoughest enemies or use a few shots to speed up killing (i.e. very low health).  In Mass Effect 1 I pretty much did teh same thing except it took more shots.

My playstyle doesn't appear to be a popular one but Ihaven't seen anyone go a lot faster than me on an insanity speed run with the engineer so I think I can say that I'm not playing slowly or plodding along.  I may not be faster than someone who relies heavily on guns but I'm not far behind so in my experience using powers isn't inferior to using guns .