314 réponses à ce sujet

[Besetment]

I had no idea you could do that.

[sinosleep]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...
Uh, yes you can.  Point at an enemy, press Q & E  (default keys) and they start shooting at that enemy, and only that enemy until it dies.

There it is. 

@Besetment 
Read the edited post. I don't think that squadmates being able to kinda/sorta provide the flavor of other classes is an issue at all. Considering DA:O, another Bioware game, doesn't just provide you the flavor, it basically gives you 4 PCs to play with. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 15 mars 2010 - 11:54 .

[Besetment]

Its still oddly unsatisfying though...

[Kurupt87]

Yeah you can do that, but its still up to the AI when to actually shoot, unlike the abilities that just happen, squadmate shooting is still up to the controlling AI regardless of target designation. It's nowhere near as dependable as using squaddie abilities, which are basically extensions of shepards abilities on a seperate cooldown.

The only thing that can't be recreated through a squadmate, that a caster has, is singularity. You cannot get anywhere close to recreating AR or charge, cloak can be semi recreated by attempting to cc the entire battle, which is a bit harder than using one ability. A sent has an ability that can be closely recreated defence wise using bonus powers, but these do not have the offensive boost of the caster sent or the huge survivability/cc of the assault sent. These abilities define how you play these classes, while the engi and adept class specifics do not. Whether that is good or bad is up to personal preference, but i do find it odd.

[Karstedt]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

Uh, yes you can.  Point at an enemy, press Q & E  (default keys) and they start shooting at that enemy, and only that enemy until it dies.

More often than not, that just makes my squad run out into the open and get killed. Even when I pause to line up the attack command, they still end up moving about and getting wasted. Combining attack and move into a single command doesn't seem to work very well for me.

[Besetment]

sinosleep wrote...
Read the edited post. I don't think that squadmates being able to kinda/sorta provide the flavor of other classes is an issue at all. Considering DA:O, another Bioware game, doesn't just provide you the flavor, it basically gives you 4 PCs to play with. 

I understand what you are saying but in DAO you have independent control over all 4 party members. You can experience what its like to play a Mage, a Rogue and a Warrior all at the same time, regardless of what class you pick for yourself.

Anyway, its just an idea for how to give something to the Engineer and Adept that squadmates can't do. I dunno. Even Singularity feels disappointing. It feels like Pull Field that works through protections and functionally you do the same thing you do with Pull Field. You disable enemies temporarily and then detonate Warp on it. When you play Vanguard you are genuinely getting a style of play which is unique. The only way to experience it is to roll Shep as a Vanguard.

Modifié par Besetment, 16 mars 2010 - 12:22 .

[Illwillsam]

I think one of the problems is that anything at or below veteran is far too easy. And while Insanity is challenging at first, after you got the hang of it, it felt right, and after that I couldn't play it on anything lower than hardcore because I got bored. Why is this a problem? Well on anything higher than veteran EVERYTHING has some sort of immunity, which (imho) really cheapens a lot of the "spells".  I'm not saying it makes the spell classes weaker (I've done Insanity on my adept and it was the most fun I've had) just less fun and distinct than they could be.

It would have been better if some enemies did not get immunity but were weak, and although they would get a bit more powerful as you increased the difficulty level they would primarily increase in number. The fodder would be mixed in with other more powerful enemies (elites) that conversely did not increase as dramatically in number as the difficulty level went up but increased in power.This way you still had a bit more contrast.

Spells could more easily deal with the fodder (in many amusing fashions without using as much ammo) and if used correctly and at the right time they could even also damage the more powerful baddies, basically focusing on AOE (maybe?). For Example setting up a warp explosion on fodder near stronger baddies so that they also get hit with the power).

Weapon based classes on the other hand had fun stuff like more health or shields, better mele, limited numbers of grenades (that could use ammo from the same pool as guns??), or whatever you can think of to help them kill the fodder without too much trouble so that they could focus their energy on the more powerful baddies after, and while they would use more ammo on the fodder, they would also use less on the elites as their weapons are better able to deal with defenses.

And if you made it so that "Bosses" were killed by using the environment in clever ways while wading through the fodder and elite hordes then that just works itself out.

If the fodder/elite balance was kept in check relative to either class sect (weapon based/caster) so that neither was overly frustrating to one sect or the other; and would introduce ammo as a balancing point. I.E. You had to play your class more and more effectively so as not to run out of ammo as the difficulty increased. I think this would work out better the way the current ME2 classes are designed allowing shooting to keep a central role in game play, and would give you another balancing knob to tweak.

These ideas are kind of off the cuff but give you a good idea as to what I am thinking about while adding something to the discussion (maybe I do not have the time to read the other 7 pages now I need to graduate ).

TLDR: The immunity idea is nice, but handing it out too EVERYTHING on any difficulty worth playing more than once really cheapened a lot of the spell based classes. Not saying spell classes are weaker, just less fun and distinct than they could be.

Modifié par Illwillsam, 16 mars 2010 - 11:19 .

[sinosleep]

Besetment wrote...
I understand what you are saying but in DAO you have independent control over all 4 party members. You can experience what its like to play a Mage, a Rogue and a Warrior all at the same time, regardless of what class you pick for yourself.

I know you do, which is my point. D:AO essentially gives you 4 PCs, it's what Mass Effect does multiplied by about a million, and yet that doesn't hurt DA:O's replayability when choosing the same class as one of your squadmates. So if the effect you were complaining about is infinitely worse on DA:O without hurting the classes, then how can it be an issue in Mass Effect when it's no where near as bad. 

[Besetment]

These days I only play Insanity+ and trust me, resistances don't stop an Adept from absolutely destroying everything in the game. Sure Gatsby's uploaded a tonne of videos where he ploughs through Insanity without firing a single bullet.

The issue is not about which class is the most powerful. Adept and Engineer are both very powerful but of the 6 classes, these 2 just feel...incomplete. Or it feels as if the unique features of these classes have been distilled and bottled and given to squadmates so anyone can use them, so why would you ever roll an Adept if you haven't rolled a Vanguard, Infiltrator, Soldier or Sentinel yet? I dunno.

I don't know how to explain it but this thread I guess is to offer rational interpretations of why that is and how it could be fixed. I really like the idea of an Adept that can suspend and launch objects like crates ala gravity gun in HL2. I don't even care if the Adept is less powerful. It just gives you a really good reason to play Adept and it would give you an experience which you can't get anywhere else. You gotta admit it would be badass.

Modifié par Besetment, 16 mars 2010 - 12:48 .

[sinosleep]

Just thought I'd add that I'm not against any of the ideas you posted as enhancement to the adept, I'm just disagreeing with on principle with squaddies allowing other classes to play a bit like engineers or adepts somehow hurting those two as classes.



Gravity gun like mechanics would be great for an adept. Hell a more refined version something like what they did in Starwars the Force Unleashed (the concept worked well as far as launching what you grabbed where you wanted it to go, it was targeting what you wanted to throw in the first place that was the problem) would be awesome.

[Besetment]

I guess I just did the whole pull/warp detonation thing on my Infiltrator and it was a blast so when I rolled an Adept and it turned into singularity/warp detonation it just felt like a big rehash but with less guns. And SMG without Squad Cryo was like it was on Infiltrator but immeasurably less fun.

Modifié par Besetment, 16 mars 2010 - 12:52 .

[Athenau]

Physics based gameplay for the biotics classes would provide the skill-based element that Bioware wants without turning their powers into future fireballs. Being able to move stuff around (enemies, objects) by gesturing would be unique and fit the lore really well.

[TheUnusualSuspect]

Ok, proceeding from the above posts, I'll concede this point, if only 'cos it'd be so cool.



If we're talking about throwing objects about, something like the Half-Life ZPE gun, where you can pick up and hurl objects about, and implement something like that as an Adept with biotics. I mean, we see cutscenes for that sort of thing all the time in ME2 or even in-game battles like Wasea, so why can't an adept Shep do it? Yes, you may say that Throw does this, but Throw isn't the same. We see Wasea and Morinth both pick up an object with biotics, control/hover it to line it up, and then throw it in the exact direction of what they want to hit, much like how the ZPE gun works. Adept bowling-ball biotics, even with dead opponent bodies, would be awesome, and certainly unique.



As for an Engineer, I was pretty happy with the drone, but hey, instead of simply saying that it's not class defining enough, how's about some ideas on what might work instead?

[RGFrog]

Omega-202 wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

I'm not coming at this from a wish standpoint. I'm coming at this from the logical order of the ME universe.

That's not true.  Those are all your wishes and opinions.  If you want to argue logic of the ME universe, then all Commander Shepards are trained soldiers first and foremost.  They are military men.  Any enlisted man's main tool is his weapon.  

It seems that my view of the ME universe is the one that BioWare believes is true.  Yours seems to be tainted from the view point of some sort of classical RPG.  

As a military man, Shepard SHOULD be relying on his guns first and foremost and his special tricks as supplements.  

My opinion is not that the powers should be brought up to the level of "weapon replacements" but that the gun play needs to be better distributed between classes.  

Wrong. In the ME universe, not all are shooters first. Kaiden was a biotic commando in me1. The assari are born biotic and if they choose, can master it (see samara or morinth). A great number of military characters in this universe don't even use weapons. Finally, the only military person that relies on his/her weapon is pretty much good as dead. A weapon is a tool only.

Also, if you want to compare it to our military, there's 2 whole branches of it in the US where weapons are at best a secondary item and typically something locked away except in case of dire emergency or qualifying training once a year.

So, no, Shep is not automatically a gun toating jarhead or bullet stopper. If he was, there would be no other class than soldier; Shep would not be a Commander but instead a marine major or lt. colonel; and he'd never have the run of a starship, he'd be the head of a squad of marines answering to the capt. of the boat.

Your view of the ME universe may be what you believe it should be. But, it's not what's in the game. Either of them. Sure, it favors the shooter heavily. Duh! Bother to read any of the posts here in this thread? However, the universe was defined in ME1. That universe hasn't changed. That Shep is now more accessible as a shooter to the masses is the only thing in the ME universe that has. Do your homework before you start towing your flawed view of the company line. Mine is not some distorted desire for an RPG. Mine is a desire for the game play to match the universe in which it exists.

Oh, and this is an RPG as Bioware has been outspoken to insist. If they don't want it to be one, they would get rid of the classes all together and just call this a 3rd person shooter with a story. But they haven't. The logic of the universe still exists. And, contrary to your opinion, not every iteration of Shep. has to be a gunslinger and a few shouldn'tt even need a weapon.

Thank God for what little varity is left and that we're free to discuss that it could be better because I'd never have purchased this sequel had it been anything like what you wish were true.

[sinosleep]

Being a commander has jack **** to do with whether he was infantry or not. Especially considering the fact that essentially the entirety of ME 1 and 2 have both been entirely based on ground combat. Hell for all intents and purposes Shep IS a Marine. His background is that of a ground pounder. When he was being selected for Spectre status it was a ground mission on which he was to prove himself, and as a Spectre all he has done is ground based. Shep and his squad are a bunch of ground pounders who happen to run a ship. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 16 mars 2010 - 02:08 .

[RamsenC]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

As for an Engineer, I was pretty happy with the drone, but hey, instead of simply saying that it's not class defining enough, how's about some ideas on what might work instead?

I always thought it would be interesting if a class had traps like proximity mines. They would be on a short cooldown and you could have around 3 of them out at once. They would be the only ability that was position based instead of target based, but I'm not sure how well the game could handle that. The mines would do decent damage, but mostly be used to knock enemies in a 3m AoE down despite defenses. Smarter enemies will try to avoid the mines, which could be beneficial for grouping up enemies for easier kills or preventing you from getting flanked.

Just some random brainstorming that would definitely would need tweaking.

[ZeroEffect]

I don't think what Gatsby is getting at (sorry to put words in your mouth, feel free to correct at will) is that the classes are bad or can't function.  It's just that it feels pointless, and your style is limited by the class.  I should be able to choose a class for the flavor, not the playstyle.  To be fair, you can play Engineers/Adepts more aggressively (Gatsby has shown us that), but their options are really limited by the game mechanics.  We're looking at a sort of liberation of how you can play a class.  You can make a different adept build than another player, but they all end up rather the same.  Some options are just bad (shockwave, on higher difficulties), and others are just too situational to ever be good outside of the intended goal (throw/pull/etc not working without armor), regardless of what level of the ability you have.  So how do you fix this? (father down post, needed to clear up another idea first)

A quick aside (not really), someone touched on this earlier (sorry, forgot who), but then dismissed the idea as silly.  In reality, you have two sets of cooldowns:  your powers (cooldowns generated by use) and your weapons (the cooldowns are reloading and changing guns).  Think about it.  In order to hit enemies from a distance to strip armor, the adept can use warp.  The soldier switches weapons.

In actuality, I think that the ends of the spectrum should be a class that only uses abilities to strike, and one that only really uses weapons (abilities mearly enhance your use of them).  I'm not saying that we should have a class at either ends of the spectrum, but in reality, those are the two extremes.  One relies on one set of cooldowns (powers) and the other relies on the other set of cooldowns (weapons).

Now, with the current universal cooldown system, the adept/engineer have two much down time between using abilities.  You can either sit there (boring) or shoot.  The cooldowns are too long to make something other than shooting effective or work at a decent pace.  I'm going to throw another vote out there for the universal cooldown and individual cooldowns on the moves.  This opens up the "less-shooty" classes to use more of what they have available, and get's rid of "ability spam," which occurs because 1 ability is best in a given situation almost all the time, and by the time you're off cooldown, that ability is back.  You may not just use 1 ability, but it's all you're going to use when that situation occurs.  This limits class playstyle.

However, I would like to add something to this system to adress the idea of still being stuck under cooldowns all the time.  Set the universal cooldown at a base value (let's say 2.5 seconds, just for the purpose of this argument).  Now, include it in the class abilities of Adepts/Sentinels that each rank reduces the universal cooldown by .25 seconds.  At max rank, the "casters" now have the ability to fire lots of abilities at will without being stuck under cooldowns, while the "shooty" classes have their use of the ability cooldowns limited by a longer universal cooldown.

There's still a problem, though.   Enemies are unaffected by most abilities when they have barrier/armor/shields up.  So, even if my adept is off cooldown quickly and can fire another option, as long as warp/singularity are down, there's nothing to do.  Bioware needs to open up how abilites can affect people who still have defenses up.  I'm not saying they should work at anywhere near full effectiveness, but they still need to be usable for something other than a minor stun (which is a waste of time compared to shooting your weapon).  So make them useable in some form to manipulate enemies.  Some quick examples:

1) Throw pushes and enemy a small distance.  This allows the biotic to prevent enemies from closing too quickly while their damaging powers rechange.
2) Pull brings someone closer/out of cover.  Useful to combo before using other powers or to bring closerange for something like the vanguard.
3) Overload overheats weapons.  I know it already does this, but I just wanted to point out the great design of this move.  It allows you to accomplish something regardless of what state the enemy is in.
4) Cryo blast slows the enemy.  Think of it like a single target adrenaline rush.

That's all that popped off the top of my head.  Damaging abilities (incernate/warp/etc) don't really need more utility.  Even though they dont' hit as hard at times, they're still usable to fill cooldowns.

The other solution to this problem would be to increase enemy health significantly (which would increase the time in which enemies were able to be affected by ALL powers).  This option feels a little to awkward though, as organics (other than krogan) aren't able to take unshielded shots in reality and still function, so I'd prefer the previous.

So now that the classes would be able to use their sets of cooldowns more effectively, without necessarily relying on weapons, how do you differentiate between classes.  Two things:

1) More abilities.  Shoot me, I said it.  The ones we have right now are badass, but the fact is, if there are more options and you aren't able to get them all, the same class will play significantly different with each build.  Right now you pretty much have access to every ability (and thus the designed situation to actually use it), the only differences are ranks.

2) Ability design.  The best designed powers are those that can work both offensively and defensively, since it allows players to make use of that ability as they see fit, and not just in a specific situation.  Think about overload; you can use it for offense (shield draining), or defense (overheating weapons).  Offensive players can use it to strip defenses, defensive can use it for crowd control.  Mixed players can make use of both aspecs depending on the situation/how they are playing at the time.  Most of the abilities have the potential for this (think about throw--offense = combo kill / throw off ledge, defence = controlling spacing), except that the armor system makes them unusable until one of the situations arises, such as not being able to throw an enemy until they are most vulnerable (no barrier/armor/shields).  At this point, CCing them doesn't have a purpose since you could kill them just as easily (which is a permanent CC).

That's all I've got for now, but it's a lot to chew on anyway.

Oh, as a side note, I'd like to thank Bioware for actually caring about their games and community feedback!  It's awesome to actually know that you guys listen to what we think/want!

[ScroguBlitzen]

Biotic powers would be much better if enemy resistance to them wasn't just all or nothing as it is currently.

Currently an enemy is 100% resistant to being thrown if they have even 1 pixel of defenses left.  Once they are at health however then their resistance drops directly to 0%.  This is the problem right there.  Their resistance to biotic affects should slowly decrease as their shields are lowered and their armor is stripped.

Biotic resistance should be proportional to the targets mass, health and defenses.
Each point of health gives 1 unit of resistance.
Each point of shield or armor gives 2 units of resistance.
Each point of barrier gives 4 units of resistance. (A Biotic can effectively increase their mass to resist affects).
Mass is a straight multiplier for total resistance.  Devs can crank this high for Scions, Praetorians and Harbinger.

When thrown an enemy with:

• very  high resistance will ignore effects.
• high resistance will stagger.
• medium resistance will be knocked down briefly.
• low resistance will be launched.
• very low resistance will be wtfpwned.

[Omega-202]

RGFrog wrote...


Wrong. In the ME universe, not all are shooters first. Kaiden was a biotic commando in me1.

Which was an artificial game mechanic.  Notice how Commander Alenko as an NPC is all of a sudden rifle qualified in ME2?  Magic?  And if you want to get technical, Kaiden and Liara were pretty good shots and sometimes more affective with dual Combat Scanner/Snowblind Ammo Spectre AR's than they were with pistols.  

The assari are born biotic and if they choose, can master it (see samara or morinth).

And all asari commandoes and vanguards in the games are AR or shotgun wielders.  Hint: Eclipse vanguards aren't annoying because of their easily dodgeable warp.   

Also, if you want to compare it to our military, there's 2 whole branches of it in the US where weapons are at best a secondary item and typically something locked away except in case of dire emergency or qualifying training once a year.

Shepard isn't a part of such branches.  His backstory is as a ground side marine.  

Akuze: ground side Alliance search and rescue team
Elysium: ground side garrison of troops (specifically the codex says "soldiers")
Torfan: ground side squad commander 

Shepard's not a ship or airforce guy by trade.  He IS a jarhead.  

 

and he'd never have the run of a starship, he'd be the head of a squad of marines answering to the capt. of the boat.

Notice how he didn't have the run of a boat and was under Anderson's command?  If his background says he wasn't a glorified grunt, why was he selected simply as a  "boots on the ground" point man for Anderson's crew?  

He got command of the Normandy due to the demands of the Spectre job.  

You really don't understand who they've told us Shepard is.  Start there.  Do YOUR homework and come back.  

EDIT: 

sinosleep wrote...

Being a commander has jack **** to do with whether he was infantry or not. Especially considering the fact that essentially the entirety of ME 1 and 2 have both been entirely based on ground combat. Hell for all intents and purposes Shep IS a Marine. His background is that of a ground pounder. When he was being selected for Spectre status it was a ground mission on which he was to prove himself, and as a Spectre all he has done is ground based. Shep and his squad are a bunch of ground pounders who happen to run a ship. 

Exactly.  And as such, gun play defines him as a military man.  Powers and skills are a large part of what makes him such a great marine, but what makes him a marine in the first place is his ability to dominate a firefight.  

Modifié par Omega-202, 16 mars 2010 - 04:33 .

[Xanfaus]

 

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Currently an enemy is 100% resistant to being thrown if they have even 1 pixel of defenses left.  Once they are at health however then their resistance drops directly to 0%.  This is the problem right there.  Their resistance to biotic affects should slowly decrease as their shields are lowered and their armor is stripped.

I think that this idea would go a long way to making the adept feel more like a biotic god. Sure a soldier could just keeping shooting to finish stripping defenses, but an adept could now weaken an enemy's defenses and actually use some of their abilities other than warp, singularity, and more warp and potentially kill the enemy as effortlessly as an infiltrator with the widow.

It just sucks that you can see Samara or Jack [cinematics/dialogue scenes] doing awesome things using only their biotic abilities, yet THE biotic class is better off weakening defenses and then shooting than force pushing fools. Their has to be a middle ground between making the adept ridiculously overpowered in ME1 and serviceable in ME2.

[Radahldo]

As for an Engineer, I was pretty happy with the drone, but hey, instead of simply saying that it's not class defining enough, how's about some ideas on what might work instead?

I think the combat drone is limited. The idea of the drone in an rp-sense is very class-defiining, but how it's incoproateed into the game is limited, and not nearly as rewarding as some of the others are. I use it very tactically, but it feels like there are blocks on it.
I've beaten the game with the Engineer on Veterean (one time), Hardcore (once),Insanity (three times) , and on insanity+ (4 times)... so i'm not saying that lightly.

If they choose to prohibit the drone from attracting multiple targets, it should have greater detriment to the individual you cast it on.
When the drone zaps someone causing them flail aroud, they should keep firing their weapon. As it stands now, they just flail around; if they wildly fired their weapons, I would have a higher chance of killing them, since the amount of rounds they can then turn on me is much less. The drone would have more surviviability too, since when the stuns end, they can't 12 quick rounds into it.

The Engineer should have a distinct advantage over whoever the Drone is cast on.

When a Vanguad charges an individual, they have a very distinct advantage; when a soldier AR Snipes someone, they are dead; when a sentinel charges a group, he has a continued advantage over them because of tech armor... all of those powers, when renewed, bring back a distinct advantage to Shepard, but, what does the drone really do? It's renewability is wasted and it's really limited. I should have some distinct, renewable advantage, but I don't. All i'm doing, in it's most immediate and basic use is distracting one guy.

Maybe allow the drone to work as proton-rounds worked in ME1, damaging health through whatever defenses are already in place.
Physical effects with the drone would be nice too. For instance, how an enemy will back-pedal from it sometimes; if I could trip him up by quickly spawning the Drone behind him, would be a big help.
I think the Drone should substitute for Shepards physical prescence, and it currently doesn't do that.

The Engineer definately needs something to faciltate not only Shepards movement but also his squads movements from cover-to-cover.
Maybe, I could use the drone as temporary cover? Last year, when Christina made a thread called: "tell me what you like about the Engineer!"   Many asked for portable shields like the geth (and now the collectors) use. That could be the drone.
Spawn it, and Shepard uses it as cover. Maybe even allow Shepard to use it while moving, mobile cover. Moreover Shepard use the drone as cover for his for his teamates.

 They just need to greatly expand on the drone for ME3, and I will be very happy.

Modifié par Radahldo, 16 mars 2010 - 08:59 .

[greghorvath]

I have read the opening and some of the posts, so I am only partially aware of things discussed.

About aiming powers: This is basically making the powers into guns, with the difference of firing them with hotkeys instead of the mouse button. Increasing power damage for (and only for) caster classes would do instead, I think.

Total balance is imo not desirable, because I for one would definitely not try out different classes just for the experience of pushing x instead of y in different playthroughs (this is also an argument against the aiming of powers). The classes at the moment need slightly different thinking and attitude (soldier and vanguard close in fast and destroy), engineer and infiltrator are more for distance - although sinosleep's vid of horizon shows a totally different approach...) and the other two I have not played yet. Having certain classes kill slower is great for having to think what and when you do. Although, Gatsby you have much more experience in this then I do.

Learning extra skills (some only for certain classes) via side missions would be great. What I miss from the biotic repertoire is some sort of telekinetic power with which you could move enemies to designated areas (like over the edge on the collector platforms...). Samara, Jack, Captain Wasea use powers like this, so basically they could be available. - Edit: Come to think of it, this for one could be an aimable power as after grabbing the enemy you would have to point to the place where you want them to go. (before anyone goes off saying this would be too powerful, limitation on usage could be implemented. Naturally)

Portable armor is available with the shield boost and fortification, however a barrier you could cast into a designated place on the battlefield would make sense.

What I don't understand is how people say the squad is of actual tactical use. I don't know why, but in my game the squad rarely does what I tell them to (don't always move when I tell them to, don't stay in cover, don't choose the safest route to point x, etc.) Lately I have stopped trying to strategise and just have them do what they feel like. I use a lot of medigel...

Modifié par greghorvath, 16 mars 2010 - 01:55 .

[Arhka]

This is where I miss Lift from ME1. Sure, it was a simple power, point at the enemy and they would go directly up. But, the ways you could launch people with this power was amazing. Just by positioning this power right on the floor, you could throw them in many different directions.

[Lycidas]

I think we can see one big problem of the Adept class when we look at the squad builds. Your squad is a good way to cover your own weaknesses so naturally you will take squadmates with you that can do things your class can not do as good. As a Adept however you will want to go with 2 more biotics (exactly the thing you should be the best at).
Why is that?
Why is it that the Adept will feel significantly less fun whenever you need to bing 2 tech experts with you (like geth maps)?
It is because of the way cooldowns are atm. The only way to use biotics in a fluid way is to combine your powers with the ones of your team. The moment you're the only biotic the game feels slowed down and way less exiting. 6 seconds of waiting for your powers to cool down after just one warp, thats hardly what I would call a fast paced shooter feeling. Thats 6 seconds you can only do the one thing that every other class is better at, firing your gun.

Edit: And it is 6 seconds to just remove the defenses of ONE enemy (an Infilitrator would have killed the same target with a single sniper rifle shot).

Modifié par Lycidas, 16 mars 2010 - 03:58 .

[LxLegend]

I've read much of this thread and many good points are made throughout. After playing a soldier, 2 infiltrators, then an adept, and vanguard I can say that powers need to be reviewed for ME3.

It's not only that powers are weak compared to guns but that using non-class and non-ammo powers slow down and remove the "intenstity" of combat.

To improve powers I think the easiest way would be to just increase the amount of damage biotic and tech powers do to all immunities (shields/barriers/armor). Then the primary squadmates for any adept or engineer would be advanced weapon users like Garrus, Legion, and Zaeed which makes more sense than an adept bringing two more biotics users.

When it comes to speeding up power use in combat I would say less is more.  Maybe combine more of the power effects together like shockwave and throw.  Combined  they could work something like that shock pulse that Samara/Jack throws out during the Swarm path of the collector station.  So, while there would be less powers the powers available would be versitile enough to make the useful without distracting from the combat or being so rarely used/needed that players forget they have them. 

Modifié par LxLegend, 16 mars 2010 - 05:01 .