98 réponses à ce sujet

[Lemonwizard]

Mukora wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Legion doesn't lie.

Legion: Lying? Does not compute.

Machines, even sentient ones, don't lie.

In a recent study, computer programs were put into a simulation with one another where they were tasked to compete over an imaginary resource. One of the programs learned to give the others false locations, tricking them into going out of their way so that it could get the resources without competition.


Of course, this is a highly isolated case, but it CAN happen, and it's presumably far more likely in a true self-aware AI with technology hundreds of years more advanced than what we have today.

[Schroing]

Doozle wrote...

I must admit, the fact we don't see, hear or talk to any other haters of the 'Old machines' is a tad suspicious.

You heard from thousands of them, is that not enough for you?
Video game conspiracy theories make me sad.

[Schroing]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Mukora wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Legion doesn't lie.

Legion: Lying? Does not compute.

Machines, even sentient ones, don't lie.

There is no reason to assume that sentient synthetic life forms capable of creative and independent thought cannot lie.

There's no reason to think they can't; there's also no reason to think that they are.

[Cascadus]

Geth don't lie because they don't have emotions. Lying is typically an emotional response to a stressful situation.

Now deceive on the other hand...

[GenericPlayer2]

It is all too convenient and seems far fetched. So does Shep working for Cerberus.

[Beerfish]

I fully agree with the OP. It is all too convenient for a lone geth to come into Shepards possession. Geth are a collective, why did they send out a lone geth to do the job? On top of that 10 seconds after he is aboard and has pledged to be under Shepards command he is caught scanning Talis omni tool. Further more he declares that he will stop until after the mission but once it is over he will transmit the data to the geth.



In my 1st play through he was the only unloyal member of the group and he died after doing the vents. I was pretty happy about it as a paragon shepard. I got some use out of him and he was destroyed before he could do any real damage. (Or so it seemed,.)

[Gaeia]

Perhaps, as it was stated before, Legion is an anomaly. This does not mean he will betray Shepard. Neither does this mean that he is THAT loyal to Shepard. He definitely has a fascination for the commander, though.



One thing that crossed my mind about him is the fact that he could be developing more human characteristics. Maybe he could be having the I-Robot syndrome (wishing to become human or is already becoming more human in a sense).



The quarians tried to shut down all their geth because of fear. They feared that the geth were becoming more like them and therefore, will not count as "assistants" anymore. Instead, the quarians will be branded as slave owners, and they did not want that.



Anyway, if I was something like Legion and I aspire to become human, there is no better role model than Shepard. Heck, I'm human and I would want to be more like him/her.

[Schroing]

Gaeia wrote...

Perhaps, as it was stated before, Legion is an anomaly. This does not mean he will betray Shepard. Neither does this mean that he is THAT loyal to Shepard. He definitely has a fascination for the commander, though.

Legion says himself that he's an anomaly. In fact, he definitely is; unless he has an army of Geth hanging around somewhere in the ship's ventilation tunnels, there's no way he could be intelligent enough to hold meaningful conversation -all the time-.

[DuffyMJ]

He's clearly the conrad verner of the geth

[Gaeia]

DuffyMJ wrote...

He's clearly the conrad verner of the geth

LOL! Hey... I think Legion has more endearing qualities than Conrad. In fact, I like Legion a lot.

Sorry, Conrad Verner fans. No offense. Just stating my opinion.

[Akrylik]

Doozle wrote...

I must admit, the fact we don't see, hear or talk to any other haters of the 'Old machines' is a tad suspicious.

because legion is the only mobile unit beyond the veil, only because of his task to find Shepard, which doesn't require an army. As far as we know the rest of the non heretic geth platforms are all minding their own business in the veil, providing upkeep for the planets the quarians were exiled from.

[cipher_Cero]

Have you gotten far into conversations with it?

Legion is actually the only mobile platform to cross the Perseus Veil into organic space, which is part of the reason why it is a carrier for so many active runtimes. All of the geth you've seen previously usually house only around a hundred or two, while Legion has ten times as many. This is because it needed to be able to properly interact with organics, which a standard mobile platform wouldn't have the capacity to do.

The 'true' geth didn't see the need or a point in sending the entirety of their species (for lack of a better word) beyond the Veil, which is actually for the best. I'm sure the sight of that many platforms at once would incite nothing but more armed conflict.

If I recall correctly, Legion does mention that the rest of the 'true' geth are still on the quarian homeworlds, maintaining them and repairing the damage left from the Morning War.


That's why you don't see more of the 'true' geth around. I can understand not wanting to trust everything it says, but I can't agree with the whole 'geth' thing making him a liar.

[Cube404]

Technically, Legion is part of a Collective (So he states//implies). Meh, I'd trust him. It's not like he's the Terminator.

[cipher_Cero]

Shandepared wrote...

I'd like Legion to explain why the geth kill anyone who tries to make contact with them. Certainly it is possible that the heretics control the borders leading to geth space, but I'd like to hear that from him.

The mission UNC: Derelict Freighter in ME1 might be what you're thinking about. The MSV Cornucopia stumbled into an indoctrination device which turned the entire crew into husks and sent them back into organic space. Any "attack" was certainly due to any geth loyal to Sovereign.

Other than that, I haven't read about geth ('true' geth) just attacking everyone they encounter. As far as I can recall, no one crosses the Veil into geth space. They travel close to the edge, but not quite there.

[jklinders]

KillaKow wrote...

Vaern Sul wrote...


 I've tought about that before, and I came up with this:
Assuming Legion is double-crossing you, then :

-It Built an entire papier-mache background in order to bolster Shepard's trust toward it. Not impossible, but unlikely, considering the lack of interest AIs find in lying in most of Sci-Fi setting. Besides, What's the point of lying to him. If the geth are THAT many, they could spread accross the galaxy and do the reaper tactic, surgical-striking every major Galaxy position.
And if Legion lied about the Geth's numbers, then maybe the trap laid won't be enough, and organic will sweep out the geths. Fail.

-It missed the opportunity to overpower EDI (Or at least to try) to upload classified Cerberus Data. As a Black ops groups, Cerberus must indeed have a lot of classified strategics data for the Heretics to compile.

-More importanlty, it Squandered lots of opportunities to shoot Commander Shepard in the back, to say the least : Once during IFF , countless times during Loyalty mission, plus Legion also had the opportunity to reveal the Normandy's location back then,oh and let's not forget the massive opportunity it had  beyond the Omega 4 relay. Considering that Shepard is One Big Threat to the reaper, and thus to the heretics, keeping him alive along with his crew would be pointless.


That is why Consensus has been built in my mind : Legion speaks the truth. 

1- If the Geth did that, then we'd just have the same plot as Battlestar Galactica now wouldn't we? <_<

2- If he failed to overpower EDI, then his cover would be blown and he'd be dead, my guess is that if he is double-crossing you he's waiting for the perfect opportunity.

3- Same as 2, also legion murdering the Player Character would probably create some issues with gameplay.

So which is worse writing, killing the player character when he very clearly has the chance, or squandering the oppurtunity to complete his mission and return to the geth only to work out some convoluted betrayal later. Shepard's head was squarely in Legion's sights, and legion could have taken the other 2 squaddies out before he could be marked.

[RobbertDewulf]

Legion is many programs running at the same time, he's probably the only one that wasn't affected and so he's the exception that confirms the rule, well, tecnically he would be the heretic.



Whatever.

[toezz]

SRSLY!??



They don't travel beyond the veil !! is that so hard to understand.. ??



Now case closed.. we WILL eventually see more of the "good" geth in ME3 but until then stfu..

[cipher_Cero]

Shandepared wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

The mission UNC: Derelict Freighter in ME1 might be what you're thinking about. The MSV Cornucopia stumbled into an indoctrination device which turned the entire crew into husks and sent them back into organic space. Any "attack" was certainly due to any geth loyal to Sovereign.

Other than that, I haven't read about geth ('true' geth) just attacking everyone they encounter. As far as I can recall, no one crosses the Veil into geth space. They travel close to the edge, but not quite there.

No, I'm talking about the codex and three centuries of history. The Council sent emmissaries to contact the geth shortly after the Morning War and they were slain.

Ohh, I remember reading that now.

I don't know if there's been any in-mythos indication of what level of sentience the geth had achieved during that time. Obviously the geth are working towards a future where they wish to exist at the pinnacle of their sentience by uploading to a single (sufficient) hub where their runtimes can all coexist, which would mean that there's some progression involved as far as how smart they're getting.

Legion didn't venture beyond the Veil until after the events of ME1 (seeing as he was specifically looking for you), which indicates that up until that point the geth had no interest in making contact or communicating with organics.

Depending on how long after the Morning War the Council waited and how smart the geth had gotten at that point, it may just be a primitive hostility.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I actually thought that the solutions for the heretics were rather cheap. You could rewrite the heretics to join the non-heretics or you could destroy them. Both had the same outcome: There would be no heretics in ME3.

[Schroing]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I actually thought that the solutions for the heretics were rather cheap. You could rewrite the heretics to join the non-heretics or you could destroy them. Both had the same outcome: There would be no heretics in ME3.

What do you want, an "I should go" option?