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[Schroing]

Shandepared wrote...

I don't know if there's been any in-mythos indication of what level of sentience the geth had achieved during that time.

How interesting. If the geth weren't intelligent enough to be reasoned with then surely the quarians were doing the right thing when they tried to shut them down.

They were fully capable of understanding the concept of a soul, so I doubt they were so primitive.

Modifié par Schroing, 14 mars 2010 - 10:09 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Schroing wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I actually thought that the solutions for the heretics were rather cheap. You could rewrite the heretics to join the non-heretics or you could destroy them. Both had the same outcome: There would be no heretics in ME3.

What do you want, an "I should go" option?

Leave them be? Negotiate?

[Schroing]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Schroing wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I actually thought that the solutions for the heretics were rather cheap. You could rewrite the heretics to join the non-heretics or you could destroy them. Both had the same outcome: There would be no heretics in ME3.

What do you want, an "I should go" option?

Leave them be? Negotiate?

Do you not understand what the heretics are?

[Collider]

Eh...either way, if you recruited Legion and did his loyalty mission, I'm hoping you can achieve peace between the Geth and the Quarians in ME3 or something to that effect.

[Schroing]

Shandepared wrote...

Schroing wrote...

They were fully capable of understanding the concept of a soul, so I doubt they were so primitive.

So then why not speak with Council emmissaries?

You see where I'm going with this?

For all we know, they just never reached them.

[Relshar]

If you actualy talk to him he tells you that the Geth are looking after the Quarrian homeworld by gardening it and treating it like a monument to the Creator race (which is the Quarrians). The Geth realy didn't want the war it was just the Quarrians being scared of what was happening.



The true Geth are puzzled by the fact that organics hate them so much. And so they send out propaganda to learn more than misslead. As legion says the true Geth do not live on worlds, they instead live in space and take resources from asteroids instead.

[glasgoo21]

I don't diagree with your theory, but I feel it is only part of the bigger picture

[Schroing]

Shandepared wrote...

Schroing wrote...

For all we know, they just never reached them.

For all we know the center of the universe is made out of milk cartons.

That's not exactly fair.

[cipher_Cero]

Shandepared wrote...

Schroing wrote...

They were fully capable of understanding the concept of a soul, so I doubt they were so primitive.

So then why not speak with Council emmissaries?

You see where I'm going with this?

"Alarmed that their creations were achieving sentience, the quarian government sent out an immediate order to shut down all geth. Their synthetic servants struck back, killing billions and driving the quarians from their homeworld in what few ships they had left. After forcing the quarians into exile, the geth isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy in the systems beyond the Perseus Veil. The Citadel races immediately sent ships to the edges of the Veil, expecting a geth invasion would soon emerge. However, the geth made no attempt to attack and have not been seen outside the Veil for centuries."
-- "Geth," Mass Effect Wiki

"After the remaining quarians fled the planet, they remained on their ships and created a new form of government and civilization, eventually becoming known as the Migrant Fleet. The quarian's numbers were devastated; there are currently only about 17 million quarians still alive , and they are still refused an embassy on the Citadel. The geth remained behind the Perseus Veil, away from the prying eyes of organics. In an attempt to protect the galaxy from the geth, the Citadel sent a fleet to the edge of the Veil. They suspected an imminent attack on all organics by the geth, but no attempt was made by the geth to leave the Veil until the war with Sovereign."
-- "Geth War," Mass Effect Wiki

I can't find the associated Codex entries, but there says no mention about an attempt at communication. Rather, there was the suspicion of an invasion force that never came.

Modifié par cipher_Cero, 14 mars 2010 - 10:33 .

[Sturmwulfe]

I believe Legion is telling the truth. Machines calculate, and the geth are no different. There is absolutely nothing the geth would gain by deceiving Shepard, and tracking him down for two years to make contact instead of destroying him would definitely suggest they don't have an interest in fighting Shepard or fight organic species. If they disappear for hundreds of years and only show up after Saren contacts them with Sovereign, it would be reasonable to assume that the small fleets we encounter in the series aren't representative of all the geth. Legion shows signs of gaining his own individuality and personality, but doesn't understand it. It wouldn't be hard to imagine with enough platforms, different opinions would come up. I don't find it hard to believe at all that they want to monitor and learn from organic life so they can one day reappear and coexist. Considering their first experience with an organic species was the one that created and tried to exterminate them, you can understand why they'd be hesitant to want to show up again in the galactic community. Seeing the heretic geth get systematically wiped out by organic life would also be concerning, as organic life has problems seeing a difference between people of different cultures in their own species, how could they possibly see the geth as two distinct cultures (for lack of a better term)?



Also, if Legion had ulterior motives and the heretic geth were really representative of all geth, it would not make sense for Legion to give Shepard the choice to reprogram or destroy them. Putting your people's fate in the hands of someone you plan to back stab seems entirely illogical and poorly calculated by a synthetic. As mentioned before, there were ample opportunities for Legion to betray Shepard and the team if Legion was serving the Reapers (unless like my Insane Theory thread suggests, the Collectors were starting to act on their own accord like the Keepers and the Reapers thought it was time to replace the Prothean based Collectors with the next ones to keep everything in control, as I do not believe the Reapers didn't have Collectors before the Protheans).



And if Legion were the minority as has been suggested, and he had the rest of the geth rewritten to share his perspective, then I fail to see how that would possibly be worse than the ones who already tried to let the Reapers in.



For those suggesting that the reason he didn't try to hack into EDI's systems or override/sabotage anything was because it would give him away, "Geth do not infiltrate." Pretty straight forward people, those geth are.

[Nibroc17]

Wolverfrog wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks Legion's claims that the Geth we fought in Mass Effect 1 are a small percentage of a greater whole who think differently from regular Geth as being complete bollocks?

It just seems all too convienient to be honest.

We never see or speak to these other "good Geth" in Mass Effect 2 do we? The only one we ever see is Legion. There's no evidence supporting his claims other than his own words.

Its my opinion that Legion isn't actually part of greater collation of Reaper-hating Geth, but is instead an anomaly; a new model of Geth which went against the rest of his species views. I believe that he is the only Geth who does not worship the Reapers.

And to further his own goals, he went searching for the greatest ally he could use against the Reapers; Commander Shepard. Once he'd encountered him/her, Legion then manipulated Shepard into serving his intents, by either converting some of the Reaper worshipping Geth to his own ideology or having us destroy a great number of them.

I know a lot of you on this forum will flame me for having this idea, but ever since first meeting Legion I've had a feeling that something isn't quite right about them. And I think this is it.

Read the Codex on the Geth retard.... So stupid.

[Stinkface27]

Cool idea for a twist! But nah I believe him. Mostly because he's too awesome and I would totally feel betrayed if he turned out to be a bad guy =(

[SimonTheFrog]

There were quite a lot of discussions on this topic already.



I still think that the whole "true geth/heretic geth"-schism is not entirely thought through by the writers.



But i strongly believe that the writers are not preparing for a twist that legion is actually plotting

against organics. I think he is meant to represent a type of benign geth.



All questions that arise as a consequent are less indications that he lies but more that the writers didn't think too much about it. This is what i think.

[Fjordgnu]

I think it's brilliant, actually. Inadvertently or not, I think the writers have managed to illustrate how synthetics differ from organics in ways of thinking.



I'm not sure why people are struggling so much with this. I see a lot of questions asked, whose answers seem blatantly obvious to me.

[-Skorpious-]

Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Schroing wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Schroing wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I actually thought that the solutions for the heretics were rather cheap. You could rewrite the heretics to join the non-heretics or you could destroy them. Both had the same outcome: There would be no heretics in ME3.

What do you want, an "I should go" option?

Leave them be? Negotiate?

Do you not understand what the heretics are?

Yes.

Edit: Let me clarify. Last summer I've posted on the old forums about the possibility of evil and non-evil geth. The idea behind this was that all sentient beings capable of creative and independent thought are unlikely to be evil. There could be non-evil ones or a resistance. The evil ones were supposed to be indoctrinated by the reapers. Their religion is a sign of that. I also theorized that the quarians started the war without negotiations and that the geth were defending themselves. Once the quarians were decimated enough they retreated. After 200 years the geth showed up to serve under Sovereign. I think everyone thought I was mad. It turned out I got it right for the most part. The evil geth became what we now know as the heretics. Does that answer your question?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 mars 2010 - 12:25 .

[BatarianBob]

Considering it's Bioware writing, it's more likely that Legion can be taken at face value.

If it is lying, it's more likely about how it, not the heretics, represents the majority of geth.

The huskified freighter, the Armstrong cluster, Eden Prime - the Citadel can all be chalked up to a minority of radicals. The geth on Haestrom are a little tougher to explain.

Modifié par Taranatar9, 15 mars 2010 - 01:17 .

[CrookedAsylum]

Eh, Legion tells you flat out that if you want to relay a message to the other Geth, he would act as a terminal.



So, no, I don't believe he's lying.

[Fjordgnu]

Taranatar9 wrote...

The huskified freighter, the Armstrong cluster, Eden Prime - the Citadel can all be chalked up to a minority of radicals. The geth on Haestrom are a little tougher to explain.

Tourists are advised that Haestrom is a Geth stronghold. How much more explanation is needed?

[Xaijin]

If Legion was tasked with eliminating Shepard, he would have.

[CrookedAsylum]

I'm not so sure, Xaijin. Possibly. But he seems rather obsessed/endeared toward Shepard.

[GuardianAngel470]

I see it this way. If I can trust him to have an anti-material sniper rifle, come with me and use that rifle in combat, open a door for me on a suicide mission, and even interact with a quarian in a way that doesn't involve violence, then I can trust what he says to me is true. At some point you have to disseminate the intel and decide who you can trust. Legion has had plenty of opportunities to stab me in the back (or obliterate my torso as the case may be) and he hasn't. He has even had a situation in which there was plausible deniability for killing me but he didn't. That, in my book, means he is trustworthy.

[Xaijin]

There's obviously something going on, BUT he could have sniped him on DR, and he could literally taken his head off when the field was turned off, which would have also allowed him to destroy EDI's blue box, and I doubt the guard present would have done jack, and that's supposing you have done Tali's LM, if you haven't, he could have linked with the other Geth to kill you.

Modifié par Xaijin, 15 mars 2010 - 01:31 .