98 réponses à ce sujet

[CrookedAsylum]

I did Tali's loyalty after I got Legion. He still didn't try to mess with EDI, and he still managed to save Shepard and their squad while they retrieved the IFF.

Legion could've done all those things you said. But the point is, he didn't. The last time he was in contact with the rest of the Geth was two years prior, so any decision he made was on his own.

[Xaijin]

I mean the Geth on the Alarei.

[GuardianAngel470]

Legion shoots the geth on the alerei. He shoots the geth on Heastrom too.

EDIT: and the geth on the weather controller side mission.  He also shoots the geth on the crashing ship.  He shoots alot of geth.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 15 mars 2010 - 01:40 .

[CrookedAsylum]

Yup. I remember the Alarei. Captain of the Rayya threw a fit, and Xen wanted to experiment on him.

I'm sure she can experiment on all the Geth Legion took out with his Widow.

[mortons4ck]

Cube404 wrote...

Technically, Legion is part of a Collective (So he states//implies). Meh, I'd trust him. It's not like he's the Terminator.

Technically, yes. But since Geth are limited by speed of light communications, they (Legion) are not in contact with the main geth conciousness (that exists beyond the Persues Veil) at all times.

Modifié par mortons4ck, 15 mars 2010 - 02:01 .

[Terraneaux]

The fishy thing is that the geth who started setting up bases in the Armstrong Cluster in ME1 were not Saren's geth; they were acting independently. I wanted to believe Legion because he's awesome, but then I was like 'wait... hold on a second.'

[Vaenier]

It is possible the heads of government are really aliens clones who are trying to get us to kill ourselves... There is no proof that they are not...



There is no evidence that Legion is lying, and there is no reason not to trust him. [besides him being a geth, but thats racism then]

[Multifarious Algorithm]

There's also the fact that the Geth don't count population the way organics do. Shepard and co were essentially thinking "one mobile platform == one geth" whereas the reality is "one mobile platform == 100 geth".

Since they don't need physical bodies to exist - as Legion says, spend most of their time uploaded to major servers - the Heretic Geth could easily have had a lot more mobile platforms and dropships then the regular Geth while representing only 5% of total Geth programs in existence.

[BatarianBob]

Fjordgnu wrote...

Taranatar9 wrote...

The huskified freighter, the Armstrong cluster, Eden Prime - the Citadel can all be chalked up to a minority of radicals. The geth on Haestrom are a little tougher to explain.

Tourists are advised that Haestrom is a Geth stronghold. How much more explanation is needed?

I'll try that again.

Of all the planets in geth space, the one we need to go to just so happens to be under heretic control?  Even though they're such a small minority?  That's a hell of a coincidence.

[Xaijin]

Considering they're monitoring Quarian transmissions, and "small minority" is still MILLIONS of Geth, hardly. They probably went their to shoot the honk out of the Quarians.

[SimonTheFrog]

Yup, i think Legion tells us "we haven't met". So... according to Legion true Geth haven't been in the Armstrong, or Haestrom or anywhere. Always them darn heretics.



What is really funny is, that with Legion all Quarians can rest aside their plans of war (maybe besides Xen who wants to repurpose them). Legion practically tells everyone who wants to hear it that they want peaceful coexistance. Why is there no cheering and mask in the air throwing? The war is over!!

hmmm

[alphax1]

If Legion is telling you the truth the only non heretic Geth you've ever been in contact with is it... so that means all the Geth in ME1 including the Geth you face in the Armstrong cluster fights are heretics as well.

It makes a lot of sense that this would be so since the true Geth have been putting the vast majority of resources into building their dyson sphere and wouldn't build more war platforms than absolutely necessary while the heretics are putting all their resources into helping the reapers.

The twist might be that the 'Heretics' that follow the reapers are/were the majority compared to Legion's faction and Legion is trying to convert them or destroy them and return the Geth back to building rather than following the reapers to their destruction...

Either way it doesn't make sense that Legion is working for the reapers considering that there are innumerable points where he could have betrayed and handed Shepard over like if you pick him to be the tech expert in the suicide mission or as a companion at any point during the mission...

A doublecross might work in a very linear game where you had to bring Legion along in a mandatory mission but in Mass Effect it doesn't really work

Modifié par alphax1, 15 mars 2010 - 04:10 .

[cipher_Cero]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

The fishy thing is that the geth who started setting up bases in the Armstrong Cluster in ME1 were not Saren's geth; they were acting independently. I wanted to believe Legion because he's awesome, but then I was like 'wait... hold on a second.'

Depending on how you receive this quest it is revealed that Saren ordered that invasion as a distraction. So it seems Tali was wrong.

To be specific, you can receive this quest from a terminal on Virmire in which case it is suggested Saren has ordered the invasion there.

At least if I'm remembering it correctly...

Those were definitely Saren's geth. The only geth to venture beyond the Perseus Veil since the Morning War were those who followed Sovereign, and then Legion a couple years later.

Sovereign was hanging around the Perseus Veil before the events of ME1, possibly studying the geth for a way to "recruit" them (being synthetics, I assume that they're not really vulnerable to indoctrination).

We know this because the outpost on Rayingri is overrun with husks, which is clearly a fingerprint of Sovereign's.

Modifié par cipher_Cero, 15 mars 2010 - 05:51 .

[CrookedAsylum]

Taranatar9 wrote...

Fjordgnu wrote...

Taranatar9 wrote...

The huskified freighter, the Armstrong cluster, Eden Prime - the Citadel can all be chalked up to a minority of radicals. The geth on Haestrom are a little tougher to explain.

Tourists are advised that Haestrom is a Geth stronghold. How much more explanation is needed?

I'll try that again.

Of all the planets in geth space, the one we need to go to just so happens to be under heretic control?  Even though they're such a small minority?  That's a hell of a coincidence.

There are a lot of Geth, dude. Think of it this way; Five percent of multiple millions is still a damn large number. On top of that, Geth can build new Geth from scraps of metal, ready for combat and to be linked into the hive mind. It's not that hard to believe that the Heretics built more Heretics.

[Thwyvylyn]

He's another Reaper Xanatos Gambit.



0100000101110011011100110111010101101101011010010110111001100111001000000000110100001010
0100010001101001011100100110010101100011011101000000110100001010
01000011011011110110111001110100011100100110111101101100

Modifié par Thwyvylyn, 15 mars 2010 - 07:28 .

[cipher_Cero]

Eski.Moe wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

I don't know if there's been any in-mythos indication of what level of sentience the geth had achieved during that time. Obviously the geth are working towards a future where they wish to exist at the pinnacle of their sentience by uploading to a single (sufficient) hub where their runtimes can all coexist, which would mean that there's some progression involved as far as how smart they're getting.

That sounds creepily like a Reaper.

Not exactly, though it's exactly what Sovereign used to bring the heretics to its side.

The geth aren't working to a future devoid of organics, like the Reapers are. While individual Reapers can have many "minds" like the geth, their idea of
progress is the systematic eradication of organic life. This is nothing
like what the 'true' geth wish to do.

The goal of the 'true' geth is to build a megastructure where all of their runtimes will be uploaded, allowing them to exist as a single "consciousness" in harmony with itself. Through this they will maximize their collective processing capacity, allowing them to achieve the absolute height of their sentience.

Sovereign offered them this, possibly by allowing them to upload to a Reaper construct.

While this is essentially a huge step toward--if not a shortcut--to their goals, the 'true' geth wanted to accomplish this themselves. They remain in geth space, mining asteroids and other uninhabited bodies for resources. In the meantime they also maintain and clean up the damage from the Morning War.

[The Angry One]

Taranatar9 wrote...

Fjordgnu wrote...

Taranatar9 wrote...

The huskified freighter, the Armstrong cluster, Eden Prime - the Citadel can all be chalked up to a minority of radicals. The geth on Haestrom are a little tougher to explain.

Tourists are advised that Haestrom is a Geth stronghold. How much more explanation is needed?

I'll try that again.

Of all the planets in geth space, the one we need to go to just so happens to be under heretic control?  Even though they're such a small minority?  That's a hell of a coincidence.

Yes, since it also just happens to be in the same region of the galaxy as the heretic station.
They're heretics. Get over it.

[Terraneaux]

cipher_Cero wrote...

Those were definitely Saren's geth. The only geth to venture beyond the Perseus Veil since the Morning War were those who followed Sovereign, and then Legion a couple years later.

Sovereign was hanging around the Perseus Veil before the events of ME1, possibly studying the geth for a way to "recruit" them (being synthetics, I assume that they're not really vulnerable to indoctrination).

We know this because the outpost on Rayingri is overrun with husks, which is clearly a fingerprint of Sovereign's.

Tali claims that they aren't Saren's geth, remember she wanted information from geth acting independently to bring back to the flotilla.  Plus, in ME1 they hadn't established that Husks were Sovereign's idea, it was in fact pretty heavily implied it was something geth did to freak out biologicals.  This was decided the other way in ME2, of course, it might even be a bit of a retcon, but compared to the council suddenly developing a bad case of the retarded it's not a huge deal.

[cipher_Cero]

Terraneaux wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

Those were definitely Saren's geth. The only geth to venture beyond the Perseus Veil since the Morning War were those who followed Sovereign, and then Legion a couple years later.

Sovereign was hanging around the Perseus Veil before the events of ME1, possibly studying the geth for a way to "recruit" them (being synthetics, I assume that they're not really vulnerable to indoctrination).

We know this because the outpost on Rayingri is overrun with husks, which is clearly a fingerprint of Sovereign's.

Tali claims that they aren't Saren's geth, remember she wanted information from geth acting independently to bring back to the flotilla.  Plus, in ME1 they hadn't established that Husks were Sovereign's idea, it was in fact pretty heavily implied it was something geth did to freak out biologicals.

When Tali asked for that information, everybody was still thinking that Sovereign was a ship and the geth were following Saren. Before the Morning War, geth didn't act "independently"--they needed to be told what to do. When the war broke out and the quarians were driven into exile, there was no chance to study the geth. Since then there had been no concrete data on how they were progressing and evolving away from their former masters.
"Independent" referred to the fact that the geth were actually their own society now, heretic or not. Even those that were taking orders from Saren and Sovereign were, for all intents and purposes, acting independently as they had chosen that path for themselves.

Also, we know that Husks are a byproduct of Reaper technology. There wasn't any retconning involved--that information simply wasn't outright stated in ME1. It also wasn't outright stated in ME1 that Reapers were hybrids of both synthetic and organic material, and that Sovereign's real name is Nazara. It wasn't outright stated that the geth were divided in any way. Retconning? No. New information was provided, and it applies.