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ME 3 Inventory - Hybridizing ME 1 & 2


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#1
Andorfiend

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I've seen a lot of back and forth about the inventory systems between ME 1 and ME 2.  As far as I can tell the spectrum of opinions runs something like this:

  • ME 1 Inventory was perfect!
  • ME 1 Inventory just needed sorting and stacking functions.
  • ME 1 Inventory was too full of junk. I hated it!
  • ME 2 Inventory was better than ME 1 because it was simpler. 
  • ME 2 Inventory was better than ME 1 because it was more Sci-Fi feeling to replicate weapons than loot them.
  • ME 2 Inventory was the pinnacle of creation!
In the ME series the inventory system has some overlap with the research/upgrade system.

In ME 1 weapons came in a variety of makes and grades with stats improving as the grade went up. There was almost always one best weapon which had the best stats in all categories and gave no reason to ever select another weapon in that category. This was critisized for removing choice, perhaps having different top end guns with each being the best in different categories of performance would have been better. It went hand in hand with the mod system which allowed for the customization of different aspects of performance for the guns. The mods came in different grades but also widely varying effects which could greatly alter the playstyle of the gun. The high degree of information and feedback available about the guns and mods allowed in depth customization. The guns and mods were looted as individual weapons and periodically the player would have to go through all his squaddies and make sure everyone was using top of the line weapons/mods. The inventory system was also clunky and lacked functions like sorting, stacking and bulk deletion/sales.

In ME 2 each category of weapons has only 2 or 3 models. Each model has a different playstyle and performance. While there is a default 'best' weapon the playstyles make enough of a difference that I don't always agree that an upgrade is actually a better weapon.  Notably this is often linked to the differing ammo capacities which are an issue for Shepard but not his squadmates. There is no reason not to give squaddies the Carnifex Heavy pistol for example, but its low ammo can be limiting to Shepard in the early game. The upgrade system has been removed and folded into the research system. The mod system has been removed and folded into the power system. The inventory system has been removed, period. Some people like this because it simplifies things. Some like it because they have a passionate hatred of inventories. Many find it overly simplified or too limiting. In particular the complete lack of numerical feedback about the guns has been critisized.

So good points from ME 1:
Many different models of guns.
Customization aspects of Mods.
Gameplay altering aspects of Mods.

Good points from ME 2:
Research is fun.
Guns offer different playstyles.
Simplfied squad managment.

So, here is my suggested hybrid for ME 3.
Retain the research based microfab system for weapons.
Offer more choices for base models. Perhaps some can be found and copied in the field and others can be purchased as minifacting lisences as in ME 1.
Expand on the simple research of ME 2. Offer different aspects of weapons to improves such as heat sinks, mod slots, ROF, Accuracy, etc. Furthermore there should be research trees with multiple branches rather than the single 'gun get better' line of ME 2.
Bring back Mods and Ammo Mods. These are another aspect that the research system can explore, and also allow for multiple branching technologies.  They can also be found as tech loot and bought from license vendors.

Weapon customization is performed at the weapon locker on the ship (and in levels where you put a weapon locker as in ME 2.) The squad will automatically equip the 'best weapons' in each line, but given the greater complexity of the system the player can toggle off auto-upgrade and hand select the weapon and mods for each squaddie.

Armour and armour mods can also be folded into this system if armour will be more than cosmetic for the squaddies in ME 3.

#2
Jon Phoenix

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I think the limited gun selection of ME 2 coupled with the deeper upgrade system from the first is a step in the right direction. It means a little bit more micromanaging for your squadmates though.




#3
BlightWalker

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ME1 didn't have many different models of guns. All pistols/ARs/SRs and shotguns with the exception of the GPR behaved exactly the same in actual gameplay (yes they had different damage, firerate and overheat multipliers but it does not compare to what we have in ME2).

Modifié par BlightWalker, 15 mars 2010 - 03:21 .


#4
Drakron

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BlightWalker wrote...

ME1 didn't have many different models of guns. All pistols/ARs/SRs and shotguns with the exception of the GPR behaved exactly the same in actual gameplay (yes they had different damage, firerate and overheat multipliers but it does not compare to what we have in ME2).


So they all had different damage, firerate and overheat multipliers but yet they are the same ...


I do not think so Tim.

#5
DarthValo81

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Let us scan weapons or blueprints during the mission and then research them on the Normandy. Brings back some of the looting I was missing in ME2 and utilizes the new features already in place for ME3. Just don't overdue it with the amount of items we can find. Problem solved.

#6
Andorfiend

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Well, that's basically my suggestion, although I really do think the tech trees need to branch.



For example research on heat sinks might offer a high capacity research branch vs a regenerative heat sink research branch so whether you prefer ME 2 or ME 1 gameplay you can tweak your experience in the direction you prefer.

#7
Shotokanguy

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Many different guns is not a good point from Mass Effect, it's a good point from ME2.



Every assault rifle was the same gun in Mass Effect. There are different kinds of assault rifles in ME2.

#8
Inverness Moon

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Andorfiend wrote...

Well, that's basically my suggestion, although I really do think the tech trees need to branch.

For example research on heat sinks might offer a high capacity research branch vs a regenerative heat sink research branch so whether you prefer ME 2 or ME 1 gameplay you can tweak your experience in the direction you prefer.

I disagree with that. I liked the move to limited ammo, it made combat more interesting and there was no longer a case where you could hold the fire button infinitely.

To do what your suggesting would give the appearance that both upgrades are basically two ways of doing the same thing, then what is the point?

#9
Andorfiend

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... the point would be that you can play the way you like, and I could play the way I like...



Unless your idea of fun hinges on the idea that someone, somewhere is being made miserable.

#10
Andorfiend

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It is perhaps unclear what the distinction between a  high capacity research branch vs a regenerative heat sink research branch might be so allow me to illustrate with an example.
Heat Sink Research Tree Example
  • Level 1 : Improved Heat Sinks - This technology increases ammo capacity by 10% and opens up further research options.
  • Level 2a: High Capacity Heat Sinks - This technology increases ammo capacity by 25%
  • Level 2b: Regenerative Heatsinks - This technology hybridizes the modern Ablative heat sinks with old style convenction/radiative cooling. After the last shot is fired the user can either eject the heatsink or allow it to cool which will regenerate the capacity for one shot (or burst) per 2 seconds to a maximum of 2 shots/bursts. Reduced efficiency of heat transfer limits ROF by 10% however.
  • Level 3a: Sublimating Heat Sinks - These heat sinks utilize a sublimating layer of high thermal density material. The gass expansion serves to cool the underlying substrate allowing faster heat transfer. +40% Ammo Capacity + 10% ROF
  • Level 3b: Improved Regenerative Heatsinks - These heat sinks cool faster with less loss of capacity. The clip will regenerate 1 shot/burst per second to a maximum of 50% capacity. Maximum ROF is -10%
  • Level 4a: Improved Sublimating Heatsinks - Adds 60% capacity + 15% ROF
  • Level 4b: Active Cooling Heatsinks - These heatsinks utilize the laser cooling technology  used in cryo rounds to eliminate ammo concerns completely. However physical limitations of the system limit heat transfer. No ammo, maximum ROF reduced 20%.
So you can see this will enable the player to choose two completely different playstyles based on personal preference. And those who select to retain the limited ammo system are rewarded with higher DPS than those who do not, so no one will need to feel 'punished' for choosing  the higher stress/ higher reward option.

Modifié par Andorfiend, 15 mars 2010 - 10:47 .


#11
TurbanSoviet

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that would be good but everyone will go with the active cooling because of no ammo
probably be like active cooling level 1 would be 25 rounds fired 4 sec cool down were heatsink would be more ammo capacity with 40 or 50 rounds fired
what ever ammo mod you have would effect that number, like cryo would increase # of shot before cooldown/ swap heatsink and inferno would decrease the #

Modifié par TurbanSoviet, 15 mars 2010 - 11:16 .