18 réponses à ce sujet

[Zy-El]

Yeah, like it says in the subject header . . . point the finger at the high-priced execs and marketting hacks who set the release date of March 16. 

Programmers are not to blame.   Developing a game as complex as DA involves an entire software development team consisting of business analysts, project managers, developers and testers.  They have little to no say in determining the release date of a product; that decision falls on the execs who rely on marketting wizards who know nothing about programming.  The marketting wizs say that mid-March is statistically the best date to release in order to capitalize on profits.  I'm not a marketting guru but it probably has something to do with forcing people to buy the game before they have to pay their income taxes. 

For the project team, they are faced with a hard, immovable release deadline.  And even though they informed the execs that the product will not be ready til June, the March 16 release date remains unchanged.  So, the project manager has no choice but to shorten the development process - he cuts back on the testing.  And, of course, we see the results of that forced decision now.

So, bottom line . . . don't dis the programmers.  They aren't to blame. 

The blame falls on the thick-headed Bioware execs!  They should have pulled the patch off the shelf and put out a notice that they are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution.  BUT, that won't happen because that would be admitting a mistake and the execs are all too busy right now pointing fingers at each other while harassing the project team! 

I suspect that patch 1.04 does exist but they're going through the proper testing cycle right now and won't release it untill it has passed all tests.  WE might see it in April - but don't hold your breath! 

[metatheurgist]

But the last that happened there was much moaning and wailing on the boards! Remember RTO? People threatened to leave and never come back, never buy BIO games evar, thought they were betrayed, felt it was a personal attack on their manhood/lifestyle choice/religious affiliations, etc,etc,etc.

You just can't make everyone happy. Especially not since everyone became convinced that they're special and deserve everything they want right now!

Modifié par metatheurgist, 16 mars 2010 - 02:26 .

[Jax Sparrow]

Anyone want some cheese? 

[MMO_Addict]

But we are special!!! ...right?? =D



Anyway, I'd be really curious to know what kind of rigs they do all their testing on before the games/ patches/ etc....get released.

[FreyarS]

Why don't I view the company as a whole with mild distaste?

[searanox]

Absolutely true.  While I'm not sure you can blame the executives directly for some of the issues with the 1.03 patch, it's undeniable that hard deadlines dictate the quality of games, whether that is how buggy they are at release, how much content is in them, etc.  If you gave most developers a large budget and tons of time to refine and playtest their games, nine out of ten games would be excellent.  People who make games have an incredible passion for it, and do so in spite of the horrible ways they are treated by their employers - few vacation days, unpaid overtime, 80 hour work weeks, no real job security or protection, etc.

As someone who really wants to get into the industry as a designer/writer, I'm terrified of the consequences of these awful employment practices and of being burned out five to ten years after I get in, yet I still want to go through with it because I want to use my unique skills and knowledge to deliver new and exciting things that gamers will love.  I'm sure most people who make games, regardless of where they work, have similar viewpoints, but usually they don't have the economic means to pull it off.  It's like the music industry during the 70s and 80s - you can still produce quality creative material, but you have to wade through a ton of **** from people who want to exploit you in order to do it.

It's also worth pointing out that the quality of most games has skyrocketed in recent years thanks to better developer tools and more creative talent in the industry as a whole.  Interface design, for example, has really improved since ten years ago.  Writing, even though nowhere near the quality of good cinema, is still on average far better than what we used to get.  Atmosphere and drama are all much more capably brought out through use of music, voice acting and good stage direction.  It's not as if the industry isn't moving forward; though some games don't have the same depth or length as they once did, at the same time the overall level of polish and detail is far higher, and games take exponentially more time to create because of it.

Anyway, I'd be really curious to know what kind of rigs they do all their testing on before the games/ patches/ etc....get released.

Hopefully, as wide a range of machines within the requirements as possible.  BioWare can't be held responsible for games not running on below-minimum machines, but it'd be foolish not to have a variety of computers to test on.

Modifié par searanox, 16 mars 2010 - 03:03 .

[Zadiell]

metatheurgist wrote...

But the last that happened there was much moaning and wailing on the boards! Remember RTO? People threatened to leave and never come back, never buy BIO games evar, thought they were betrayed, felt it was a personal attack on their manhood/lifestyle choice/religious affiliations, etc,etc,etc.

You just can't make everyone happy. Especially not since everyone became convinced that they're special and deserve everything they want right now!

true, but do you buy a movie, and expect it to work only sometimes, do you buy a dishwasher with the agreement that it will work sometimes? game are going down in quality because they are more complex, and because ceos and suit want them out no matter what to meet quarterly expectations. I work in games, sadly thats how it is.

I'm  probaly wont buy the expansion for the simple reason that I cant load any of my DLC, theres been problems with DLC since it came out. But the fact is they dont even give any news to the community, on what the problem is or when they expect it to be fixed, PR sucks here, So I am going to assume thier wont be a fix for a week or more, plenty of tiem to forget about this game and its short expansion

[Poradicus]

I don't blame Bioware, I blame whole heartily EA for everything from trying to monopolize the gaming industry, to ruining and running other small companies to the ground. They even tried to buy Take-Two Interactive, and now eyeing Blizzard's games as an initiative, (maybe to take Activision as well.) EA forces these companies to produce games in a short time-frame, then shell them out even if their not finished, and set deadlines too quick for the devs to make fixable patches in time. Yes I know all companies want money and thats how they do business, but EA is just evil, and they hate it when they are faced with competition. In the future every game might have EA's logo on it if the courts don't halt them first.

Yes I agree 1.03 patch did a few things good but didn't help with the significant crashes, the memory leaks, and some of the slow downs in varios areas of the game. This is not good sign, especially when Awakening is being released today. Hopefully this will be fixed with the new expansion but I doubt it. Something tells me it might turn out worse, than it already is. Just cross fingers and hope the game will be playable enough for everyones enjoyment. I hope the expansion brings some improvement, I preordered it and can't wait to try it. - But I hate feeling frustrated right now  doing work-arounds and other tasks just to make the game playable for an extra 2 hours.

Modifié par Poradicus, 16 mars 2010 - 07:33 .

[metatheurgist]

Zadiell wrote...
true, but do you buy a movie, and expect it to work only sometimes, do you buy a dishwasher with the agreement that it will work sometimes? game are going down in quality because they are more complex, and because ceos and suit want them out no matter what to meet quarterly expectations. I work in games, sadly thats how it is.

I'm  probaly wont buy the expansion for the simple reason that I cant load any of my DLC, theres been problems with DLC since it came out. But the fact is they dont even give any news to the community, on what the problem is or when they expect it to be fixed, PR sucks here, So I am going to assume thier wont be a fix for a week or more, plenty of tiem to forget about this game and its short expansion

I think we're talking about different things here. The original post was that Faulty Product should be delayed, I replied by saying that Fans are Unreasonable when that happens. I don't think Faulty Product should be released if possible, but I accept that it happens.

And movies...ooooo...depends on what you'd consider faulty now wouldn't it? I've bought plenty of DVDs that didn't work. Skipped chapters, just plain died, missing features, sections of movie unreadable. But what about deeper problems? Never watched a movie with bad writing, acting, sets, costumes, special effects, T2: Rise of the Fallen? I'd consider those movies faulty. And look what happens when patches are released for movies - Hi George Lucas!

[eris]

I blame the programmers.

[Dragon Nostril]

I blame marketing for pushing release of a glitched product.
Sure the programmers will miss something on all game releases, especially when played on a wide spectrum of pc equipment.
With most game releases I wait a while, at least until the obligatory v1 patch is released and tested by the customers.
I waited until December before buying DAO.
I'll wait until maybe May before getting awakening and any patch required, by which time I expect them to have it sorted.

Modifié par Dragon Nostril, 16 mars 2010 - 10:03 .

[Phonantiphon]

mrfoo1 wrote...

Zadiell wrote...

metatheurgist wrote...

But the last that happened there was much moaning and wailing on the boards! Remember RTO? People threatened to leave and never come back, never buy BIO games evar, thought they were betrayed, felt it was a personal attack on their manhood/lifestyle choice/religious affiliations, etc,etc,etc.

You just can't make everyone happy. Especially not since everyone became convinced that they're special and deserve everything they want right now!

true, but do you buy a movie, and expect it to work only sometimes, do you buy a dishwasher with the agreement that it will work sometimes? game are going down in quality because they are more complex, and because ceos and suit want them out no matter what to meet quarterly expectations. I work in games, sadly thats how it is.

I'm  probaly wont buy the expansion for the simple reason that I cant load any of my DLC, theres been problems with DLC since it came out. But the fact is they dont even give any news to the community, on what the problem is or when they expect it to be fixed, PR sucks here, So I am going to assume thier wont be a fix for a week or more, plenty of tiem to forget about this game and its short expansion

While movies are a good medium to relate video games, the animation process's used to create the CGI effects within movies, thats about as far as the desired allowance of relation can go. Video games have far more process involved in them then movies ever will.  And dishwashers aren't even relatable to video games unless your comparing them to platforms like the XBox or PS3. No amount of the "comparative mechanics/design/blah"arguments can change the fact that programming mechanics work nothing like physical components of a dishwasher.

Corporations set hard release dates. After spending a couple hundred million dollars on a project it's not going to be much of a suprise to anyone that they need to make some money back. You want higher quality of games with less issues lets see the money spent on games like MW2/God of War 2/3/PSP release and whatever else actually go to dev houses that can design decent comptent products that are actually video games. Lets see companies like EA use the online feature to release updated roster packs/whatever instead of having NHL/Madden etc 2000-2020 released yearly for a minor graphics update and some very minor control tweaking.

I can see what you're saying but your argument is a little specious in this context. A DVD is a DVD and DVD players by and large are just that, they don't have a wide range of components and software and performance in the sense that PCs do. Similarly if you sell a washing machine - it is just that, a washing machine. The dependancy on whether it works or not is solely down to the washing machine manufacture in and of itself.
A game doesn't work that way, for PCs it's (presumably) tested on as many different combinations as is possible, but there are so many variables that you cannot reasonably expect it to work on 100% of all hardware/software combinations 100% of the time.
Some companies are - it's true - better at mitigating this bottom line than others; but it nevertheless remains as a fundamental that you just have to accept.
This is one of the reasons why people bang on about consoles - a console is a non-varying platform. My PS3 will be the same as your PS3; so console games are built to an existing standard. This is not the same for PC games because we don't all have the same hardware and software, and yes - games companies do not have the time or the money in many cases to test on everything.
This isn't like the good old days when we all had BBC Bs and Spectrum 48Ks...

[Dragon Nostril]

[quote]bassmunkee wrote...

[/quote]
This isn't like the good old days when we all had BBC Bs and Spectrum 48Ks...[/quote]

Wow...now that's a blast froim the past

[Phonantiphon]

[quote]Dragon Nostril wrote...

[quote]bassmunkee wrote...

[/quote]
This isn't like the good old days when we all had BBC Bs and Spectrum 48Ks...[/quote]

Wow...now that's a blast froim the past[/quote]
Spectrum+3 128k with the diskdrive.
Oh yes.

[Jmorgan59]

After I installed Patch 1.03 I get This Crafting Box Coming up when I am in A fight and when i click the red x to get rid of it just keeps on coning Back. Hard to Win A fight That Way!!!!

[adrichardson]

It's Catch 22 for Bioware, sadly. They can't kill the patch without killing Awakenings, which they can't/won't do for obvious reasons. The blame lies with whoever decided to release Awakenings with insufficient beta testing.