259 réponses à ce sujet

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

This reminds me of when the Russians decided to write out World War 2 from the history books they use for grade school teaching.

I'm sure Germany has done that as well. Adolf Hitler? no such thing! ****sm is a myth! Have some delicious german beer!

Japan has, though, but that's another whole can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual reading.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 15 mars 2010 - 07:41 .

[Quixal]

O.o

Wow. It took me a few minutes to properly process that. They really do live in their own little world in Texas don't they? If I didn't know a number of perfectly reasonable and intelligent people from the state I would probably have a hard time not dismissing them all out of hand. As is, I pity anyone intelligent and reasonable living in Texas.

Though I was homeschooled right up to college I find I have no real urge to defend the practice. I will say that like anything else, it is a mixed bag and can do both good or ill depending on the reasoning behind its use and the specifics of the situation. In Texas, it would seem the only way to guarantee a little sanity in the education of one's children.

Modifié par Quixal, 15 mars 2010 - 07:44 .

[Statulos]

Germany is legaly forced to remember who the bad guys were. They have laws that remind them everyday of the ilegal use of III Reich symbols (even when some of them are purely appropriated like the swastika).

You can dump crap on Germans for a lot of things (just like to us Spaniards or whatever group of people you choose), but forgetting about that is not in the list

[addiction21]

Statulos wrote...

Germany is legaly forced to remember who the bad guys were. They have laws that remind them everyday of the ilegal use of III Reich symbols (even when some of them are purely appropriated like the swastika).
You can dump crap on Germans for a lot of things (just like to us Spaniards or whatever group of people you choose), but forgetting about that is not in the list

Ya the rest of us wont let you forget either...

[Mordaedil]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

This reminds me of when the Russians decided to write out World War 2 from the history books they use for grade school teaching.

I'm sure Germany has done that as well. Adolf Hitler? no such thing! ****sm is a myth! Have some delicious german beer!

Japan has, though, but that's another whole can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual reading.

They have? Judging from their literative works and animation, they've not forgiven the US their loss since.

But maybe that's me imagining things and forgetting that works of literature usually takes place in the country it is being written in.

[Godak]

Statulos wrote...

Germany is legaly forced to remember who the bad guys were. They have laws that remind them everyday of the ilegal use of III Reich symbols (even when some of them are purely appropriated like the swastika).
You can dump crap on Germans for a lot of things (just like to us Spaniards or whatever group of people you choose), but forgetting about that is not in the list

My mom actually works with a nice German lady (my mother is a preschool teacher). She says that while her family didn't support Hitler, she wishes that they would have been a bit more dissident. Of course, if they had, they would have been killed...

Yeah, that's just a really bad time in history.

[The7SinsofGA]

It's crap like this that make me take a long hard look @ my country. Hell if they ever passed crap like that in my state I'd move to Canada so my daughter can get a good education. But as it stands I take some solace in knowing Texas is the one state that makes mine seem smart. (even though my state is full of idiots)

[Trefalen]

Glad I'm Elvish LOL

[the_one_54321]

Mordaedil wrote...

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...
This reminds me of when the Russians decided to write out World War 2 from the history books they use for grade school teaching.

I'm sure Germany has done that as well. Adolf Hitler? no such thing! ****sm is a myth! Have some delicious german beer!

Japan has, though, but that's another whole can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual reading.

They have? Judging from their literative works and animation, they've not forgiven the US their loss since.
But maybe that's me imagining things and forgetting that works of literature usually takes place in the country it is being written in.

Back in high school, we had a Japanese exchange student in our grade. In one of the history classes we watched Pearl Harbor one day. After the movie, she actually stood up in front of the class and gave a formal appology on behalf of Japan. Culture shock.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

Mordaedil wrote...

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

Japan has, though, but that's another whole can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual reading.

They have? Judging from their literative works and animation, they've not forgiven the US their loss since.

But maybe that's me imagining things and forgetting that works of literature usually takes place in the country it is being written in.

Oops, elaboration necessary. I mean the atrocities committed by Japan during WWII and their military expansion earlier throughout East and Southeast Asia. Examples include the Nanjing Massacre and comfort women (sex slaves) during wartime. Japanophobia as a historical memory lingers on in some of the victim countries because of this, though admittedly in places like China the issue sometimes gets drummed up for nationalist political mileage. Anyway, for further reading, see Wiki's article on Japanese history textbook controversies. Probably says more than I ever could on the issue.

Also, you mentioned "not forgiving the US"? Would you have any specific examples? Morbidly speaking, as an amateur historian I'm an avid consumer of cultural media materials that illustrate how people remember / memorialize / forget atrocities. I once watched a TV series about a woman who lived during the American firebombing of Tokyo, but that was a long time ago.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 15 mars 2010 - 08:13 .

[addiction21]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Back in high school, we had a Japanese exchange student in our grade. In one of the history classes we watched Pearl Harbor one day. After the movie, she actually stood up in front of the class and gave a formal appology on behalf of Japan. Culture shock.

She was just trying to lull you into a false sense of security to steal your waffles...

[the_one_54321]

addiction21 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Back in high school, we had a Japanese exchange student in our grade. In one of the history classes we watched Pearl Harbor one day. After the movie, she actually stood up in front of the class and gave a formal appology on behalf of Japan. Culture shock.

She was just trying to lull you into a false sense of security to steal your waffles...

After all the work they've done for us on the electronics front for us, since then, they are entitled to a few waffles.

[Busomjack]

The USA squandered a good opportunity to rid itself of all the verminous, white trash, hick states during the civil war.

Next time these scum buckets decide to secede, we should let them.

While we're at it lets sell Alaska back to Russia and make Puerto Rico a state.

Modifié par Busomjack, 15 mars 2010 - 08:16 .

[bzombo]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Glad i am not American.

Important to note that Texas is pretty much a different country, they do some weird stuff down there, we normally just try to not think about them.

Similar to the argument above on not lumping all Americans together, you
shouldn't lump all Texans together. Austin is a great city in itself.
And El Paso (my home) is nothing like the rest of Texas.

Yeah, Austin does seem pretty progressive, and I'm sure there are a lot of other great places, but if we have to throw Texas under the bus to try to avoid people lumping all of America together, well, we appreciate your sacrifice.

please don't use the "p" word. the progressive movement is not what people assume it to be. it's not about progress. it's about government changing the laws to regulate our lives because they know better. think prohibition, nyc's ghastly smoking and food laws. progressivism is about big brother telling you how to live your life.

[the_one_54321]

bzombo wrote...
please don't use the "p" word. the progressive movement is not what people assume it to be. it's not about progress. it's about government changing the laws to regulate our lives because they know better. think prohibition, nyc's ghastly smoking and food laws. progressivism is about big brother telling you how to live your life.

I disagree fundamentally with 90% of what you just said.

Now let's talk about politics some more so this thread can get locked.

[bzombo]

Seagloom wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
As for the news itself, all I can say is it doesn't surprise me. Revisionist history is not a new concept. Politics, especially currently, occasionally trump logic here. Plus, it's Texas. I stopped taking Texas seriously years ago. It's like officials there want to be ignorant.

Similar to the argument above on not lumping all Americans together, you shouldn't lump all Texans together. Austin is a great city in itself. And El Paso (my home) is nothing like the rest of Texas

I might not do as much lumping if more than half the things I hear about Texas weren't so depressing. I have friends and family in Texas, and with the exception of a few insignificant things here and there it honestly doesn't sound like a place I'd like to live.

And honestly, I could say the same thing about New York, even though I've lived here most of my life and like it. If I had a choice, I would live elsewhere. I heard my fair share of criticism for it when I was living in California, and the thing is... a lot of it wasn't wrong. I could say Manhattan has its bright spots. I could pick out a few small towns I've been to here and there that are nice. But I can't really defend my home state as a whole with conviction. So I don't see myself giving Texas much of a pass.

california, new york, and texas are all just as bad for different reasons.

[Noilly Prat]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

This reminds me of when the Russians decided to write out World War 2 from the history books they use for grade school teaching.

I'm sure Germany has done that as well. Adolf Hitler? no such thing! ****sm is a myth! Have some delicious german beer!

Japan has, though, but that's another whole can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual reading.

It's been a while since I've read any of it, but I recall Erna Paris's book Long Shadows dealing with this issue, along with other related ones.  Just one example of many, of course.

On a side note, if Austin wants to become an official member of California, I'll put in a good word for them.

Modifié par Noilly Prat, 15 mars 2010 - 08:17 .

[Statulos]

addiction21 wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Germany is legaly forced to remember who the bad guys were. They have laws that remind them everyday of the ilegal use of III Reich symbols (even when some of them are purely appropriated like the swastika).
You can dump crap on Germans for a lot of things (just like to us Spaniards or whatever group of people you choose), but forgetting about that is not in the list

Ya the rest of us wont let you forget either...

As much as I love that sketch (I even have a cardinal red t**** with it who makes people automaticaly love me!) I will now use my serious historian mask to basicaly tell that all the fuss about the Inquisition in Spain is 90% BS.

First, the Inquisition could only judge and interrogate subdites under the rule of the Hispanic Crown (since the Kingdom of Spain did not exist until XVIII century). What does this mean? That the crimes of the Inquisition in particular were agains us and only us.

Other thing is the imposition of Catholicism on areas that were not (like the Netherlands) or the political use of religion to excuse plunder and conquest (America); but that is not attached to the Inquisition, but to the crown.

Modifié par Statulos, 15 mars 2010 - 08:20 .

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

Noilly Prat wrote...

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...
This reminds me of when the Russians decided to write out World War 2 from the history books they use for grade school teaching.

I'm sure Germany has done that as well. Adolf Hitler? no such thing! ****sm is a myth! Have some delicious german beer!

Japan has, though, but that's another whole can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual reading.

It's been a while since I've read any of it, but I recall Erna Paris's book Long Shadows dealing with this issue, along with other related ones.  Just one example of many, of course.

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like a fascinating book. I'll be sure to pick this up.  

P.S. If you haven't already, there's a book by Peter Novick called The Holocaust in American Life, which as the title says concerns itself about the way the Holocaust memorialization has alternatively ebbed and flowed and concretized over time in the US. Perhaps controversial in the sense that it takes an objective look at the politics of memory with regards to a sensitive subject, but this book did blow my mind away. Made me rethink why and how people choose to remember events in the past.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 15 mars 2010 - 08:19 .

[bzombo]

Busomjack wrote...

The USA squandered a good opportunity to rid itself of all the verminous, white trash, hick states during the civil war.

Next time these scum buckets decide to secede, we should let them.

While we're at it lets sell Alaska back to Russia and make Puerto Rico a state.

i'm against what texas did because they are hiding the truth for political reasons. you seem to be doing the same for the opposite side. every southern state is not bad because they may disagree with you. the extremes of both sides of the equation are the problem in our country, not one side or the other.

[Statulos]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

Amberyl
Ravenclaw wrote...

Japan has, though, but that's another whole
can of worms. You might want to google around for some individual
reading.

They have? Judging from their literative works
and animation, they've not forgiven the US their loss since.

But
maybe that's me imagining things and forgetting that works of literature
usually takes place in the country it is being written in.

Oops,
elaboration necessary. I mean the atrocities committed by Japan during
WWII and their military expansion earlier throughout East and Southeast
Asia. Examples include the Nanjing
Massacre and comfort
women (sex slaves) during wartime. Japanophobia as a historical
memory lingers on in some of the victim countries because of this,
though admittedly in places like China the issue sometimes gets drummed
up for nationalist political mileage. Anyway, for further reading, see
Wiki's article on Japanese
history textbook controversies. Probably says more than I ever
could on the issue.

Also, you mentioned "not forgiving the
US"? Would you have any specific examples? Morbidly speaking, as an
amateur historian I'm an avid consumer of cultural media materials that
illustrate how people remember / memorialize / forget atrocities. I once
watched a TV series about a woman who lived during the American
firebombing of Tokyo, but that was a long time ago.

It is very interesting to compare how the Waffen SS have been reiterated as the outmost source of evil, even to the point of making ilegal every symbol they used (from the double Sowolu to the Oak´s leaves) while the Kampeitai were no less brutal than the SS or the NKVD boys (and we all also know about the "troikas" or the comissars) .

On the other hand, if you´re interested on the memory of the Holocaust; my best guesses are:

-Soha (the massive 12 hours documentary).
-Peter Weiss´  Die Ermittlung (The Investigation)
-Bernhard Schlink´s The Reader.

I could go on an on since one of my best papers delt with the Holocaust and its memory; drop me a PM if you want more details.

Modifié par Statulos, 15 mars 2010 - 08:24 .

[Busomjack]

bzombo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

The USA squandered a good opportunity to rid itself of all the verminous, white trash, hick states during the civil war.

Next time these scum buckets decide to secede, we should let them.

While we're at it lets sell Alaska back to Russia and make Puerto Rico a state.

i'm against what texas did because they are hiding the truth for political reasons. you seem to be doing the same for the opposite side. every southern state is not bad because they may disagree with you. the extremes of both sides of the equation are the problem in our country, not one side or the other.

It's not just because of this one textbook decision.  The south has always been on the wrong side of history dating all the way back to slavery.

Thomas Jefferson actually thought about making the USA a slave free nation but knew that it would result in a civil war which was not a viable choice to make considering a weakened state would subject us to a possible defeat by the British.  Then the south brings us Dread Scott, then Jim Crow, then they supported segregation, now they're pulling this crap off constantly trying to turn the USA into a theocracy.

The south is just a bunch of white trash redneck filth that hold the rest of the nation back.

Modifié par Busomjack, 15 mars 2010 - 08:23 .

[Baracuda6977]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

Also, you mentioned "not forgiving the US"? Would you have any specific examples? Morbidly speaking, as an amateur historian I'm an avid consumer of cultural media materials that illustrate how people remember / memorialize / forget atrocities. I once watched a TV series about a woman who lived during the American firebombing of Tokyo, but that was a long time ago.

sounds like he was refering to Code Geass, (or something similar...)
an anime revolving around "Britannia" taking over the world and a "Britanian"  high schooler is nobility and leads a revolution to free Japan from them and kills all his siblings with magical powers, he wins, that sums up the entire thing mostly, good show though as racist as it is

[Madame November]

Mr.Skar wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
As for the news itself, all I can say is it doesn't surprise me. Revisionist history is not a new concept. Politics, especially currently, occasionally trump logic here. Plus, it's Texas. I stopped taking Texas seriously years ago. It's like officials there want to be ignorant.

Similar to the argument above on not lumping all Americans together, you shouldn't lump all Texans together. Austin is a great city in itself. And El Paso (my home) is nothing like the rest of Texas.

According to my cousin Austin is a shining example of an awesome city. Not without its stupidity, but any place that can host a musical extravaganza like City Limits is cool in my books. Sweeping generalizationa are just too much fun to pass up sometimes .

Ahem...South by Southwest?

[Noilly Prat]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...


P.S. If you haven't already, there's a book by Peter Novick called The Holocaust in American Life, which as the title says concerns itself about the way the Holocaust memorialization has alternatively ebbed and flowed and concretized over time in the US. Perhaps controversial in the sense that it takes an objective look at the politics of memory with regards to a sensitive subject, but this book did blow my mind away. Made me rethink why and how people choose to remember events in the past.

This sounds really interesting.  I feel like I've seen this book in one of my local bookstores before while browsing around... I'll have to check and see if they've got it now.