259 réponses à ce sujet

[Godak]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

November Cousland wrote...

Is curious why this topic can remain open while harmless fun topics are closed down almost immediately. I don't agree with what Texas is doing, but this a thread devoted to Texas bashing.

Eh, it seems to me that a good half of us are having a mature conversation about educational revisionism with few insults flying around. I suggest ignoring the bad apples and concentrating on productive discussion. Works everytime.

...But I honetly think that everyone can agree that editing history to better conform to a certain view is completely totalitarian-esque.

[MerinTB]

Godak wrote...

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

November Cousland wrote...

Is curious why this topic can remain open while harmless fun topics are closed down almost immediately. I don't agree with what Texas is doing, but this a thread devoted to Texas bashing.

Eh, it seems to me that a good half of us are having a mature conversation about educational revisionism with few insults flying around. I suggest ignoring the bad apples and concentrating on productive discussion. Works everytime.

...But I honetly think that everyone can agree that editing history to better conform to a certain view is completely totalitarian-esque.

There is the view that history is strictly politicial - that what it teaches people (especially is schools) is mostly government propaganda and is "told by the winners."

I disagree immensely with that sentiment - biased as I am, I am a History Major and also a believer in empirical truths existing - but it is a sentiment that holds a lot of weight to many.

[MerinTB]

stupid double post

Modifié par MerinTB, 16 mars 2010 - 05:49 .

[Godak]

MerinTB wrote...

Godak wrote...

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

November Cousland wrote...

Is curious why this topic can remain open while harmless fun topics are closed down almost immediately. I don't agree with what Texas is doing, but this a thread devoted to Texas bashing.

Eh, it seems to me that a good half of us are having a mature conversation about educational revisionism with few insults flying around. I suggest ignoring the bad apples and concentrating on productive discussion. Works everytime.

...But I honetly think that everyone can agree that editing history to better conform to a certain view is completely totalitarian-esque.

There is the view that history is strictly politicial - that what it teaches people (especially is schools) is mostly government propaganda and is "told by the winners."

I disagree immensely with that sentiment - biased as I am, I am a History Major and also a believer in empirical truths existing - but it is a sentiment that holds a lot of weight to many.

Which is exactly why I'm TOTALLY against this.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

MerinTB wrote...

I disagree immensely with that sentiment - biased as I am, I am a History Major and also a believer in empirical truths existing - but it is a sentiment that holds a lot of weight to many.

Ah, a fellow History major! Glad to meet a like-minded soul. Might I ask what is your area of study? 

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 16 mars 2010 - 06:19 .

[bzombo]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Thomas Jefferson was all just a revisionist ploy to begin with. The American Revolution was won by Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand by throwing money at the British while flying on giant eagles.

The real bothersome thing is this: a board of Texas Conservatives are saying that the founders of our nation were against our nation. Aren't Conservatives supposed to be protectin' the founding fathers?

very true, but the extremes of both sides are so engrossed in their own agendas that they lose sight of what they stand for.

[Dark Lilith]

the American education system is horrible,thank god I went to a Catholic School.Nancy Pelosi and her whack jobs will try to destroy everything we stand for.Frankly I'm proud to be an American and have the right to keep and bear arms,God,guns and guts made America free and only those three will keep it that way...*The revolution will not be televised* lock and load!

[bzombo]

Busomjack wrote...

bzombo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

The USA squandered a good opportunity to rid itself of all the verminous, white trash, hick states during the civil war.

Next time these scum buckets decide to secede, we should let them.

While we're at it lets sell Alaska back to Russia and make Puerto Rico a state.

i'm against what texas did because they are hiding the truth for political reasons. you seem to be doing the same for the opposite side. every southern state is not bad because they may disagree with you. the extremes of both sides of the equation are the problem in our country, not one side or the other.

It's not just because of this one textbook decision.  The south has always been on the wrong side of history dating all the way back to slavery.

Thomas Jefferson actually thought about making the USA a slave free nation but knew that it would result in a civil war which was not a viable choice to make considering a weakened state would subject us to a possible defeat by the British.  Then the south brings us Dread Scott, then Jim Crow, then they supported segregation, now they're pulling this crap off constantly trying to turn the USA into a theocracy.

The south is just a bunch of white trash redneck filth that hold the rest of the nation back.

the things you say by lumping all southerners into one group is just as bad as what you accuse the south of. how are you being any better? there are many in the south who do the "right" thing, whatever that may be.  dragging theology into things is rarely a good thing, i agree. i just think caling everyone in the south a bunch of white trash redneck filth is wrong. what about minorities in the south? are they guilty by association? i just don't get what lumping like this does. i understand the sentiment that texas is backwards. they've always done things their own way, but i do not think all citizens of texas are morons. nor do i think all people in the north are somehow more enlightened than southerners.

[bzombo]

Dark Lilith wrote...

the American education system is horrible,thank god I went to a Catholic School.Nancy Pelosi and her whack jobs will try to destroy everything we stand for.Frankly I'm proud to be an American and have the right to keep and bear arms,God,guns and guts made America free and only those three will keep it that way...*The revolution will not be televised* lock and load!

haha! i like how you think. reminds me of a bumper sticker i saw recently: "i'll keep my guns, my money, and my freedom. you can keep your change."

[ObserverStatus]

Going to a catholic school does have it's advantages. However, I believe that conservatives are deliberately cheapening the public school experience in order to drum up support for tax subsidized "private school vouchers."

[Dark Lilith]

bzombo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

bzombo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

The USA squandered a good opportunity to rid itself of all the verminous, white trash, hick states during the civil war.

Next time these scum buckets decide to secede, we should let them.

While we're at it lets sell Alaska back to Russia and make Puerto Rico a state.

i'm against what texas did because they are hiding the truth for political reasons. you seem to be doing the same for the opposite side. every southern state is not bad because they may disagree with you. the extremes of both sides of the equation are the problem in our country, not one side or the other.

It's not just because of this one textbook decision.  The south has always been on the wrong side of history dating all the way back to slavery.

Thomas Jefferson actually thought about making the USA a slave free nation but knew that it would result in a civil war which was not a viable choice to make considering a weakened state would subject us to a possible defeat by the British.  Then the south brings us Dread Scott, then Jim Crow, then they supported segregation, now they're pulling this crap off constantly trying to turn the USA into a theocracy.

The south is just a bunch of white trash redneck filth that hold the rest of the nation back.

the things you say by lumping all southerners into one group is just as bad as what you accuse the south of. how are you being any better? there are many in the south who do the "right" thing, whatever that may be.  dragging theology into things is rarely a good thing, i agree. i just think caling everyone in the south a bunch of white trash redneck filth is wrong. what about minorities in the south? are they guilty by association? i just don't get what lumping like this does. i understand the sentiment that texas is backwards. they've always done things their own way, but i do not think all citizens of texas are morons. nor do i think all people in the north are somehow more enlightened than southerners.

I agree with you my family lives mostly in the south and have always served this country from WWII,vietnam the gulf war and into Irag.I have already lost one cousin in Irag and another shipped out yesterday.The south stands far more for whats right than whats white. Please don't talk of things you lack knowledge about Busomjack,for your own bigotry is showing thru, *tsk tsk*

[mrofni]

Dark Lilith wrote...

the American education system is horrible,thank god I went to a Catholic School.Nancy Pelosi and her whack jobs will try to destroy everything we stand for.Frankly I'm proud to be an American and have the right to keep and bear arms,God,guns and guts made America free and only those three will keep it that way...*The revolution will not be televised* lock and load!

Haha, very funny. Not every conservative or religous person is a nut job. Just like not every liberal is a marxist that wants to overthrow the government.  Edit: *And I didn't realize you were being serious when you said that. The "revolution will not be televised" made you seem like you were being sarcastic. I actually agree with much you have said there, except for that last part. It was quite radical.*

I actually don't like a lot of the stuff they are and aren't putting in the texas textbooks; I think both of the last 2 groups to have been making revisions to it have been doing a terrible job. Currently, its a very religious hard right conservative group. Immediately before, which was why this issue originally got this massive attention, it was a far left liberal group. In both versions, there were some terrible inaccuracies and bias.

But please people, look at where the sources come from. If the sources have a record of liberal or conservative opinions, those opinions will affect what they say and how they say it. Expect a bias from those people, and then you can more likely look at the information without the shade of their agenda. Don't just read from a source and not think about why they are talking about it.

Modifié par mrofni, 16 mars 2010 - 07:26 .

[the_one_54321]

mrofni wrote...
But please people, look at where the sources come from. If the sources have a record of liberal or conservative opinions, those opinions will affect what they say and how they say it. Expect a bias from those people, and then you can more likely look at the information without the shade of their agenda. Don't just read from a source and not think about why they are talking about it.

Oh, I expect plenty of Bias. The things that upset me have been a couple of direct quotes from the exchanges, and a list of the changes that are to be made to the standard. You can't really get interprative or biased about a list of specific changes.

[MerinTB]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

I disagree immensely with that sentiment - biased as I am, I am a History Major and also a believer in empirical truths existing - but it is a sentiment that holds a lot of weight to many.

Ah, a fellow History major! Glad to meet a like-minded soul. Might I ask what is your area of study? 

It's kind of embarassing -

mostly, history of religions.
Though I kind of went all over: history of Japan, Russia, Civil War, Vietnam War, Public History (didn't like)...
but way too many classes on the history of various religions.

[the_one_54321]

MerinTB wrote...
It's kind of embarassing -

mostly, history of religions.
Though I kind of went all over: history of Japan, Russia, Civil War, Vietnam War, Public History (didn't like)...
but way too many classes on the history of various religions.

Religious history shouldn't be embarassing at all. It's as important a topic as any. :innocent:

[Statulos]

Curious observation from a guy "shipped from overseas":

I´m a warm hearted person who likes to hug, kiss and in general, be nice to people in a quite phisical and evident way. People will say that it´s because I´m Mediterranean. No, not really, I´m closer to Portugal and the Atlantic than to the Eastern sea but here´s the fact;

I have been in a couple "Dixie" states and waiters in restaurants do not look at me as a potential rapist when I call them "pretty" or "dear" with a huge smile: they just smile back thank me and serve my orders.

I have had that gaze here in Indiana (especially from Indy to the North), Ohio and Illinois.

the_one_54321 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
It's
kind of embarassing -

mostly, history of religions.
Though I
kind of went all over: history of Japan, Russia, Civil War, Vietnam War,
Public History (didn't like)...
but way too many classes on the
history of various religions.

Religious history shouldn't be
embarassing at all. It's as important a topic as any. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]

Being a Historian myself and now getting my MA (soon Ph.D.) in Myth and Compared religions; I cannot agree with you more on this. Religion is one of the driving forces in humankind history. Myth is even more important considering that it does not need to be attached to a religion to exist.

Modifié par Statulos, 16 mars 2010 - 07:40 .

[the_one_54321]

Statulos wrote...
I have been in a couple "Dixie" states and waiters in restaurants do not look at me as a potential rapist when I call them "pretty" or "dear" with a huge smile: they just smile back thank me and serve my orders.

Don't let it fool you. We are friendly in the south for the most part. But if you walk into the wrong place looking the wrong way, they'll be just as likely to beat the crap out of you as return the smile. This is not an exaggeration.

[Statulos]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Statulos wrote...
I have been in a couple "Dixie" states and waiters in restaurants do not look at me as a potential rapist when I call them "pretty" or "dear" with a huge smile: they just smile back thank me and serve my orders.

Don't let it fool you. We are friendly in the south for the most part. But if you walk into the wrong place looking the wrong way, they'll be just as likely to beat the crap out of you as return the smile. This is not an exaggeration.

That can also happen very easily in Gary-Indiana.

[bzombo]

Statulos wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Statulos wrote...
I have been in a couple "Dixie" states and waiters in restaurants do not look at me as a potential rapist when I call them "pretty" or "dear" with a huge smile: they just smile back thank me and serve my orders.

Don't let it fool you. We are friendly in the south for the most part. But if you walk into the wrong place looking the wrong way, they'll be just as likely to beat the crap out of you as return the smile. This is not an exaggeration.

That can also happen very easily in Gary-Indiana.

the bottom line is there's good and bad people everywhere.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

Statulos wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
It's kind of embarassing - mostly, history of religions. Though I kind of went all over: history of Japan, Russia, Civil War, Vietnam War, Public History (didn't like)...but way too many classes on the history of various religions.

Religious history shouldn't be embarassing at all. It's as important a topic as any. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]

Being a Historian myself and now getting my MA (soon Ph.D.) in Myth and Compared religions; I cannot agree with you more on this. Religion is one of the driving forces in humankind history. Myth is even more important considering that it does not need to be attached to a religion to exist.

Awesome. History buffs unite! :happy: I'm leaning more towards East Asian / Southeast Asian history and wartime/military history, though I've been studying African American history and literature on the side. I'm also a sort of hobbyist when it comes to accumulating and analyzing cultural media of any sort especially nationalist and war-related propaganda. One day I think I might start a collection in earnest.

Anyway, here's to the future and hopefully a lot of interesting conversations here on the BioOT. Glad to meet you guys.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 16 mars 2010 - 08:21 .

[Statulos]

Africa is one of my huge gaps except for the Northern part of it (I come from "moors" from some centuries ago) but luckily, India is one of my passions. Actually, Max Weber defined it as the "Greece of the East" and you cannot imagine how handy is knowledge about Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and their millions of subschools when you´re explaining and analyzing certain phenomena in the West.



My old thesis in Spanish is somewhere arround, but it delt with stuff of that kind.

[Noilly Prat]

My degree was in International Relations, which is a subject that interests me to no end (and I love the multidisciplinary aspect of it), but I'm a bit concerned about my graduate school prospects in my field. I'm not interested in a program that is a de facto training ground for the State Department or another governmental institution. I know that all fields of study are subject to great variation among different programs and campuses, but I feel like I will either really love or really hate the program I decide to go for, depending on how I go about choosing it.

Part of me is considering taking my favorite history professor up on his suggestion that I switch over to Latin American history.

[Lucy Glitter]

The only thing I can do is shake my head and go, "Oh, Texas..."

[Seagloom]

MerinTB wrote...

There is the view that history is strictly politicial - that what it teaches people (especially is schools) is mostly government propaganda and is "told by the winners."

I disagree immensely with that sentiment - biased as I am, I am a History Major and also a believer in empirical truths existing - but it is a sentiment that holds a lot of weight to many.

Not much else I can add to what I already wrote early in this thread. This is depressing. In the past I had heated arguments with my father over this topic. He argues this very same thing and believes most published history is altered or outright false for those very reasons.

I of course, disagree; even though I'm sure it has occured before. Then this news comes along and proves him right. It's a big fat sighing moment for me. And to think my friends wonder why I'm so pessimistic about the inevitable fate of humanity. :/