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So in retrospect, did ME 2 fail?


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#176
superimposed

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

superimposed wrote...

A success does not mean that it's good.
Dan Brown is a successful Author, but he's a **** writer.
So no, he's not right.

Oddly enough, yes it does.  Just not for everyone. 

I think Twilight is one of the worst things ever to happen, especially the movies.  That doesn't change the fact that it's a huge success with a very strong fanbase.  It means that it's good to the people it appeals to

You can't measure how "good" something is on an objective level; that's where sales figures come in.  If you make a lot of money and deliver something that a lot of people enjoy, then you were successful, period.  There will never be a game that appeals to everyone.

A lot of people are mad that Mass Effect 2 removed the inventory system; I think it was one of their best decisions.  I'm here to play a role, not get stuck organizing my equipment for 15 minutes.

Also, I know he's not a great writer but Dan Brown is one of my favorite authors.


Success does not equate to quality.

And also, if you enjoy Dan Brown, well then there's no point trying to explain the basics of logic to you. You'll probably pick every third letter from my post and say it's a cipher to the long lost tomb of the illuminati, or whatever imaginary bull**** Dan Brown is jumping ton historically fraudulent conclusions on.

#177
JeanLuc761

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superimposed wrote...
Success does not equate to quality.

And also, if you enjoy Dan Brown, well then there's no point trying to explain the basics of logic to you. You'll probably pick every third letter from my post and say it's a cipher to the long lost tomb of the illuminati, or whatever imaginary bull**** Dan Brown is jumping ton historically fraudulent conclusions on.

And here I was hoping things wouldn't turn to insults <_<

Let's take a look at what I just said on the previous page shall we?

JeanLuc761 wrote...

superimposed wrote...
I
never said the game was a failure and everybody had to think it was.

If you actually looked at what I was responding to, it was the idea
that it being either a critical or commercial success equates it to
being a good game, or as the poster was implying, Bioware's best
game.

Nor am I saying you feel that way.  I'm simply saying
that, by definition: If a game succeeded critically and commercially,
then it's a success.

Whether or not it's good is up to you to
decide; I think Mass Effect 2 is the gaming equivalent of the second
coming of Jesus, others are disappointed.  Neither side is wrong.


The people who think Mass Effect 2 is amazing are no more correct than the people who are disappointed.  Just as the people who enjoy Dan Brown are no more correct than the people who don't.  It's. All. Opinion.
The only one here not looking at this logically is you.

#178
jklinders

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ME2 met my expectations. Since it met my expectations it was not a failure for me. ME1 had a lot of fat that needed trimming. Inventory system and mako just got in the way of the game. The role playing in ME1 was in the conversation system. Setting the morals of your version of Commander Shepard, how they react to the universe and companions. Stats and inventory are window dressing.

When was the last time you saw a movie where after a big fight was over the hero goes and strips all the armor and weapons off his/her enemies? Inventory and stats are white elephants, time to get rid of them, or at least feed them something different. I support more choices for armor customization and SOME more weapons. But I will take the real difference between the predator heavy pistol and the Carnifex Hand cannon any day, over the barely noticable difference between stinger pistol IV and stinger pistol V.

Story wise ME1 and ME2 both did exactly what I expect out of any trilogy. ME1 introduced the hero, some of the hero's friends, the universe the hero lived in and the principle threat facing the hero. The prerequisite temporary victory(no writer of a trilogy ever really knows how well something is going to sell when they invent their own IP for the first time)closed out the first part while leaving room for more.

Likewise ME2 filled it's role as I see for the bridge between the beginning and end. Expand on the nature of the threat, introduce new allies and enemies related to the fight and most importantly, get all of the characters fully established in their roles avoiding the need for lengthy exposition in part three.

Was it perfect? No, some story elements annoyed me, but without the third part for context I will avoid judging too harshly. Bioware can still screw this up big time, but in my opinion that has not happened yet.

#179
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

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JeanLuc761 wrote...
Whether or not it's good is up to you to decide; I think Mass Effect 2 is the gaming equivalent of the second coming of Jesus, others are disappointed.  Neither side is wrong.

Wow, that is quite a bold statement.  I assume you think this because the game will have a very profound impact on the gaming culture for indefinite generations?

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 16 mars 2010 - 06:57 .


#180
JeanLuc761

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...
Whether or not it's good is up to you to decide; I think Mass Effect 2 is the gaming equivalent of the second coming of Jesus, others are disappointed.  Neither side is wrong.

Wow, that is quite a bold statement.  I assume you think this because the game will have a very profound impact on the gaming culture for indefinite generations?

Oh c'mon, it's just an expression.  If you're more comfortable with something less "bold," as you put it:

I think Mass Effect 2 is one of the best, if not the best game I've ever played in my life.

Happy? <_<  

#181
Knoll Argonar

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...
Whether or not it's good is up to you to decide; I think Mass Effect 2 is the gaming equivalent of the second coming of Jesus, others are disappointed.  Neither side is wrong.

Wow, that is quite a bold statement.  I assume you think this because the game will have a very profound impact on the gaming culture for indefinite generations?


I think it's to soon to say so, but anyway, It's clear that was an hyperbole. This is internet, after all.

Anyway, come to think of it, for Jesus of videogames we have Mario already =/

#182
InvaderErl

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...
Whether or not it's good is up to you to decide; I think Mass Effect 2 is the gaming equivalent of the second coming of Jesus, others are disappointed.  Neither side is wrong.

Wow, that is quite a bold statement.  I assume you think this because the game will have a very profound impact on the gaming culture for indefinite generations?


Mass Effect 2 cured my leprosy and then left without asking for a reward while walking on water!

#183
JeanLuc761

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Knoll Argonar wrote...
I think it's to soon to say so, but anyway, It's clear that was an hyperbole. This is internet, after all.

Yep, pretty much.

#184
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...
Whether or not it's good is up to you to decide; I think Mass Effect 2 is the gaming equivalent of the second coming of Jesus, others are disappointed.  Neither side is wrong.

Wow, that is quite a bold statement.  I assume you think this because the game will have a very profound impact on the gaming culture for indefinite generations?

Oh c'mon, it's just an expression.  If you're more comfortable with something less "bold," as you put it:

I think Mass Effect 2 is one of the best, if not the best game I've ever played in my life.

Happy? <_<  

I obviously took your statement too literal then.  I was asking you the question out of curiosity, not to correct your expression.:?

#185
JeanLuc761

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JohnnyDollar wrote...
I obviously took your statement too literal then.  I was asking you the question out of curiosity, not to correct your expression.:?

Fair enough; No, I don't literally think it will affect an indefinite amount of generations, but I do think it will have an influence.

The rest was hyperbole.  :whistle:

#186
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

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Knoll Argonar wrote...

I think it's to soon to say so, but anyway, It's clear that was an hyperbole. This is internet, after all.

Anyway, come to think of it, for Jesus of videogames we have Mario already =/

With some people aroung you never know.:sick:  I am not too familiar with Picard yet.

#187
InvaderErl

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Make it so.

#188
Knoll Argonar

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

Knoll Argonar wrote...

I think it's to soon to say so, but anyway, It's clear that was an hyperbole. This is internet, after all.

Anyway, come to think of it, for Jesus of videogames we have Mario already =/

With some people aroung you never know.:sick:  I am not too familiar with Picard yet.


LoL, that's true, some people around here are just to extremist.

#189
Raphael diSanto

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
I obviously took your statement too literal then.  I was asking you the question out of curiosity, not to correct your expression.:?

Fair enough; No, I don't literally think it will affect an indefinite amount of generations, but I do think it will have an influence.

The rest was hyperbole.  :whistle:


Who knows.. "Ah Yes, Reapers" could enter mainstream culture as a known sci-fi sarcasm trope. Or, when mockingly giving approval to something, Shepard's "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is the bet Sushi in New York" could rise as a phrase...

.. stranger things have happened.

#190
jklinders

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Raphael diSanto wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
I obviously took your statement too literal then.  I was asking you the question out of curiosity, not to correct your expression.:?

Fair enough; No, I don't literally think it will affect an indefinite amount of generations, but I do think it will have an influence.

The rest was hyperbole.  :whistle:


Who knows.. "Ah Yes, Reapers" could enter mainstream culture as a known sci-fi sarcasm trope. Or, when mockingly giving approval to something, Shepard's "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is the bet Sushi in New York" could rise as a phrase...

.. stranger things have happened.


too true. lots of people are in here going "Ah yes_________ we have dismissed that claim"
Have not seen it IRL but it could happen.

#191
Daeion

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As a game ME2 doesn't fail, as a successor to ME it fails. The plot doesn't advance, and too many things were stripped to make the game play more like a shooter which wasn't really needed IMO. Christina Norman admitted last week that there is a significant portion of the community that feels the RPG aspects took a back seat in ME2 and that they want to adjust that in ME3.

Modifié par Daeion, 16 mars 2010 - 07:30 .


#192
JeanLuc761

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Daeion wrote...

As a game ME2 doesn't fail, as a successor to ME it fails. The plot doesn't advance, and too many things were stripped to make the game play more like a shooter which wasn't really needed IMO. Christina Norman admitted last week that there is a significant portion of the community that feels the RPG aspects took a back seat in ME2 and that they want to adjust that in ME3.

Depends how you look at it I suppose.

I won't argue with you about the storyline since that never leads to anything good on these forums, but I'd like to mention the "stripped RPG elements."

Personally, I never much cared for the insane amounts of loot we had to carry around in Mass Effect 1; I thought it was unrealistic and downright annoying.  Mass Effect 2 took it a little too far by not allowing for anything other than swapping ammo types, but I prefer it over the 30 assault rifles I was guaranteed to be lugging around at any given time.  If they want to have more inventory options, I'd suggest something like the system Crysis has in place; you have your default weapon but you can add to it on the fly.  

Really though, I think it's time we move past our definition of a "traditional" RPG and start focusing on what RPG really means: Playing a role and making the universe your own.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 16 mars 2010 - 07:35 .


#193
Terraneaux

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SurfaceBeneath wrote...

The game is Bioware's most successful to date both critically and commercially. To claim it failed by any objective means is outright absurd and only the most butthurt fanboys could possibly say so.



In general, game reviewers are bull****.  Some of them are paid by EA or someone to give the kind of review that's wanted by the publisher.  And I believe the commercial success of ME2 had a lot to do with ME1, and EA's hype machine, as opposed to any merit within ME2 itself.  .  As an earlier poster said, ME1 made them pre-order ME2, but ME2 made them not pre-order ME3.  

tl;dr: As long as we're insulting each other, only worthless sheeple would think that ME2 didn't fail.  

#194
Terraneaux

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

I won't argue with you about the storyline since that never leads to anything good on these forums, but I'd like to mention the "stripped RPG elements."


In my opinion, the RPG elements that got stripped were character development and a good story.  

#195
JeanLuc761

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Terraneaux wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

I won't argue with you about the storyline since that never leads to anything good on these forums, but I'd like to mention the "stripped RPG elements."


In my opinion, the RPG elements that got stripped were character development and a good story.  

Well, to each their own I guess.

I enjoyed the storyline immensely, and I personally have a difficult time understanding "lack of character development" when referencing anyone other than Shepard himself.  Every single loyalty mission gave unprecidented depth to the character in question.

Ah well, can't please everyone :?

#196
KotOREffecT

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

I won't argue with you about the storyline since that never leads to anything good on these forums, but I'd like to mention the "stripped RPG elements."


In my opinion, the RPG elements that got stripped were character development and a good story.  

Well, to each their own I guess.

I enjoyed the storyline immensely, and I personally have a difficult time understanding "lack of character development" when referencing anyone other than Shepard himself.  Every single loyalty mission gave unprecidented depth to the character in question.

Ah well, can't please everyone :?

Yea you really can't.. I too thought the story and characters were great. Sure the story isn't as satiysfying or as indepth as the first one, but it is more personal and sets up for ME 3 perfectly I think. It leaves a bit to be desired, but is that so bad? Esp if ME 3 lives up and delivers a satisfying end to this epic connecting trilogy.

#197
MassAffected

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No, ME2 didn't fail by any measure of the word...this topic however...

#198
CmdrFenix83

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's great and quite so true, but why was ME1 lore trashed?

What happened to companions' powered armor? What happened to guns with unlimited hypervelocity ammo? Why tech, biotic and ammo "powers" work like magic now? Why are we mining gas giants for heavy metals? What happened to Normandy's airlock? Where are desolate planets? Why are we able to scrog anything that moves now? What's that with drinking Tupari through helmet's windshield? What's that with "Thank you" e-mail crap? What's that with saving everyone on the "suicide" mission?


Companion Armor:  They didn't feel like creating suits to tailor to 12 different character models.  In the first game, every single human male had the same model.  Every single human female had the same model for their bodies.  That meant they only needed 5 different armor skins.  Human male, Human female, Turian, Krogan, Quarian.  That's it.  Now we would need 12, 13 when you count Kasumi.  They made each character unique this time around.  Side effect of not making custom armor for 12 squadmates and upgrading the character models graphically to make them all unique people and not reskins with a new head.

Ammo:  Mechanics change.  They justified it good enough in the codex to make the majority of people happy with it.  There are a couple inconsistancies(Why does Shepard know about thermal clips when he wakes up after spending 2 years dead when said tech didn't exist then?  Why are there modern security mechs during Jacob's loyalty mission that drop these thermal clips when they've been stranded on a planet for 10 years?).  However, none of these are big enough for the majority of people to care about in the slightest.  The mechanics change was for the better anyway.

'Magic' Powers:  First off, you realize that in the first game, Tech abilities were done by chucking little mines at the enemies that then exploded, yes?  The only difference now is that you can curve them around cover.  Biotics, again, side effect of Shepard's new implant after being rebuilt by Cerberus.  Shepard can now control how his powers effect the target by angling the direction in which he uses them.

Mining metals from gas giants:  Why are you wasting time scanning such worthless planets as gas giants?  They are never more than moderate.  You can get 100% of the needed minerals from scanning only the rich planets in the first three available clusters.  As for why they're there, again, mechanics.  I suppose it wouldn't matter in the slightest if these planets simply were barren, however.

Normandy's Airlock:  I don't get the point, here.  The airlock is used in both games and on both ships. 

Desolate Planets:  They're everywhere.  We strip mine them.  Why would you bother landing on a planet where nothing is?

'Scrog' whatever moves:  Shepard is a very charismatic individual that just took time from their very important mission to help whoever on a very personal problem.  Any individual that might be available(single, interested in love to begin with) would be very welcoming to the advances to Shepard in this case.  Why is this a problem again other than the fact that these individuals have nothing to say to you if you aren't trying to bang 'em?

Drinking through the helmet:  Why did you put on the full helmet in the first place?  Planning to be gassed everywhere you go?  At no time when you have the required breath mask down are you ever available for a drink.  Don't know many people that would walk around cities in a full envirosuit that aren't a Quarian/Volus.

Thank-You mails:  A reminder that your decision isn't forgotten.  Will they have a larger role in ME3?  We can't say.  However, most of them are for very, very minor sidequests from the first game.  Why would most of these have *any* effect on the story at all?  The mail at least lets you know that your decision effected something, in this case it's the life of an individual NPC.  I don't see the problem here.

Saving everyone on the suicide mission:  This seems to be the only point you have that I agree on.  Saving everyone should be extremely difficult.  Extremely.  I'm talking like requiring a time limit in certain sections of the mission or someone will bite the bullet.  It should be possible in this case, but it shouldn't be easy by any means.  Conversely, I would have preferred things like the vents(Jacob calls it a suicide mission), have been more like... individual has to infiltrate a single control room defended by guards, disable the guards, then hack the computer system to activate the doors to let the two teams past.  However, the guards retake this room shortly thereafter, ensuring this individual's death.  The choice here will determine how effective this person is at taking out the guards/opening those doors, meaning a less-than-ideal individual will result in a random death from someone on one of the fire teams, as they are the ones taking heavy fire pinned at those doors waiting for them to open.

Conclusion @ Douchebag Shepard, aka Zulu:  I dont' know why you bother coming on these forums.  All you do is complain about this game left and right.  If you hate it so much, why do you care?  Are you just here to **** and moan?

#199
CmdrFenix83

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

Really though, I think it's time we move past our definition of a "traditional" RPG and start focusing on what RPG really means: Playing a role and making the universe your own.


Amen.  No more grinding, etc. 

#200
Daeion

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JeanLuc761 wrote...

Daeion wrote...

As a game ME2 doesn't fail, as a successor to ME it fails. The plot doesn't advance, and too many things were stripped to make the game play more like a shooter which wasn't really needed IMO. Christina Norman admitted last week that there is a significant portion of the community that feels the RPG aspects took a back seat in ME2 and that they want to adjust that in ME3.

Depends how you look at it I suppose.

I won't argue with you about the storyline since that never leads to anything good on these forums, but I'd like to mention the "stripped RPG elements."

Personally, I never much cared for the insane amounts of loot we had to carry around in Mass Effect 1; I thought it was unrealistic and downright annoying.  Mass Effect 2 took it a little too far by not allowing for anything other than swapping ammo types, but I prefer it over the 30 assault rifles I was guaranteed to be lugging around at any given time.  If they want to have more inventory options, I'd suggest something like the system Crysis has in place; you have your default weapon but you can add to it on the fly.  

Really though, I think it's time we move past our definition of a "traditional" RPG and start focusing on what RPG really means: Playing a role and making the universe your own.


I've never found anyone who has not said that the inventory system in ME wasn't over the top, even someone like myself who loves inventories and finding new items will agree to this.  However BW went to far and in ME2 and I've heard a lot of people, even reviewers on podcasts say that they felt BW took the easy route in regards to inventory.  The better solution would have been to cut 50% of the manufactureres from a given level range, reduce the number of drops by about half, and add in auto equip, breakdown, and sell buttons for people who just don't want to take 30 seconds to manage their inventory.

As for your definition of a RPG, you play a role in every game you play, and making the universe your own doesn't need to mean you are playing a RPG because games like Bioshock which i think most people consider a shooter already allow you somewhat customize your experience.  This will become more prevelant as more and more companies relize that they can add what was traditionally considered to be a RPG element into their non RPG games to enhance the players experience while still maintaining the feel and experience that they want for the game.