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David Gaider has killed Duncan!


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#176
Darth Beaver

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Daigoji Gai wrote...

My first char (that knocked up Morrigan rather than die) .


It baffles me that somewhere out there, there are people who chose death over having sex with Morrigan. I have a theory that the only folks who chose the ultimate sacrifice had female wardens.

I seem to be alone in hating Duncan, but it works quite well with the story. Once i had my initial outburst, a dislike for Duncan was easily facilitated by the story and its dialog options. There is a man in there worth hating. His administration of the wardens in regards to the events at Ostagar was quite poor. In my particular origin story, I raised many concerns about the strategy employed at Ostagar and it was met with a lot of handwaving and general disinterest on Duncan's part. He catered to Cailain's childhood adoration of the Wardens in order to foster political favor for the Wardens of Ferelden down the line, and most of us know what the consequences were. I resented being assigned busywork while there was a battle going on. I also found him complicit in the circumstances surrounding Alistair's childhood, which from my perspective does not paint Duncan in a favorable light. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but even before i knew how the story at Ostagar plays out I thought he was making some really poor choices. There is a lot of suffering that could have been avoided had he been a better leader. I really am glad he is dead. 

#177
Guest_Colenda_*

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Pfeh. I don't see why anyone's paying attention to what this Gaider-bloke says. I mean, look at Elvis Presley. The doctors and the coroners all thought he was dead, but my mother's cousin's wife saw him yesterday in her local chippy ordering a hot-dog.




#178
YohkoOhno

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The problem with Duncan's Death isn't the writing, it's fan expectations.



The problem is whenever you write any character, there's always a small group of fans devoted to that character. This is why you have fanlistings and phenomenons such as "shipping" (when you become fans of a romantic pairing).



The unfortunate side-effect is that it is hard for those fans to let go if either the character is killed or the story ends for that character. I mean, we've only had the expansion released a few days and now we already have a group for a character that meets their end. It also leads to them imagining what is happening behind the scenes, etc, if a death scene isn't 100% crystal clear to them. This is also why you have people getting very emotional about the lack of continuation of certain supporting cast members in the expansion.



I think fans need to "let go" at some point of these things. One thing I noticed on TV message boards is that the 'shippers tend to get in the way of writers writing good stories. They get so mad if a romantic pairing is ended, or if there is lack of consummation, or even if the couple isn't given enough screen time, etc. They don't always see the bigger picture. I don't want Bioware's writers to ever think they should be beholden to this vocal group.



Sometimes, for the sake of a good impacting story, you do need characters to die, you do need some to move on or retire, and you have to say goodbye to beloved characters. Chapters in life end all the time--we go from school to college to the workforce to marriage and new locations. We lose and gain family members.



I also think another side effect is that since this is a fantasy game, we are expecting Deus Ex Machinas like resurrections, or soap-opera stuff. While I can see some plausibility to believe Duncan might be alive, I saw it as wishful thinking. You shouldn't always have to see and waste time on a burial scene for each character that dies to "confirm" their death.








#179
boardnfool86

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David Gaider wrote...

Stoomkal wrote...
To be fair, David, it has been four months of conspiracy theories flying around that were never addressed.

Sure, you can drop in to be sarcastic, but you never confirmed or denied his status until a few days ago when you threw it out there in a "sad face" post where people were bagging Awakening pre-release...

If people are reacting with suprise, it is probably due to this.

I'm sorry... are we supposed to run around and address every conspiracy theory that comes down the pipe? The lack of a denial means it must be true?

Come on. I don't generally read threads that don't look like I might have something to say on the topic.

I have no idea how you are handling the reaction to this non-functional expansion.

Which non-functional expansion? The one that many people are playing right now?


You know how I know you're a writer, everything you say is right on and awesome. I know I am brown nosing right now, but even when you shoot down conspiracy theorists I am entertained

#180
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I also think another side effect is that since this is a fantasy game, we are expecting Deus Ex Machinas like resurrections, or soap-opera stuff. While I can see some plausibility to believe Duncan might be alive, I saw it as wishful thinking. You shouldn't always have to see and waste time on a burial scene for each character that dies to "confirm" their death.




I'm a fan of Duncan's Beard, not of Duncan himself - and despite my relative indifference to his fate, the way that he narrated the epilogue seemed to be a strong point in favour of thinking he had somehow survived Ostagar. It sounds to me like the writers left that avenue open on purpose, and only later decided that Duncan like Maric was to be 100% dead.

#181
Bryy_Miller

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Aldaris951 wrote...

In return to ostigar his body is missing, thats 1 thing, 2nd thing I cant remember what character said it (wynn or alistair) said that the darkspawn can still feel duncans power at the campsite as if hes alive. 3rdly Duncans armor was not at ostigar either so he couldnt of been eaten right there and then.


Ald, I understand you feel connected to a video game character (which is quite awesome except for how far in you are). But the guy that wrote him just told you that he is dead. He wouldn't of written it if the programmers and the rest of the devs - including the creative director - did not sign off on it. There is no "loophole" (which doesn't mean what you think it does). Make a fanfic, replay the game, just don't tell the guy that wrote Duncan that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

#182
MelodicCure

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It is genius writing in my opinion. You create a strong and likable character and kill him causing emotions to stir and hate to grow for the dark spawn. That is the point really. If the entire war didn't happen in the beginning I would ask myself why I care so much to even go after the dark spawn, let some other "hero" do it.

#183
Feraele

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HallowedWarden wrote...

Feraele, I've had glitchy cutscenes and two crashes to desktop (also on PC). I'm not using those as reasons to like or dislike Awakening but it's not just the consoles.


Yup..as it turns out ( I'm on PC)  I don't use mods..YET.   But the very last cut-scene bugged out on me, on the final battle.

It went into auto-repeat,  and ended up I had to ctrl alt del out of it.    I looked at my saved files and I don't have an epilogue save from the looks of it.   So I may have to replay the ending..and see if the cutscene acts up again.

Hopefully not...we'll see.

#184
Bryy_Miller

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tmelange wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Jenocide wrote...
i'm sure they have something planned.

For Duncan? There is nothing planned.

Because he is dead.

Like I said, the only way he could possibly be used is in something that takes place in the past.


Why the no-love? Why harsh our squee? Can't we keep hope alive without that ice cold splash of reality? Don't you know that delusion is an essential ingredient of fandom? The Man should never take away the hope and delusions of the masses (ref. J.Whedon for appropriate behavior towards delusional fans).

Bad Bioware is Bad. Keep hope ALIVE.


Creators should NEVER pander to their more delusional fans. Some of them can be very disturbed.

#185
Feraele

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

In return to ostigar his body is missing, thats 1 thing, 2nd thing I cant remember what character said it (wynn or alistair) said that the darkspawn can still feel duncans power at the campsite as if hes alive. 3rdly Duncans armor was not at ostigar either so he couldnt of been eaten right there and then.


Ald, I understand you feel connected to a video game character (which is quite awesome except for how far in you are). But the guy that wrote him just told you that he is dead. He wouldn't of written it if the programmers and the rest of the devs - including the creative director - did not sign off on it. There is no "loophole" (which doesn't mean what you think it does). Make a fanfic, replay the game, just don't tell the guy that wrote Duncan that he doesn't know what he is talking about.


I think Bryy..what is going on here, is folks were expecting a plot twist, and when that didn't happen, they were of course disappointed.   Kind of along the lines of Morrigan..we kind of know that "something" may happen further down the road with her.

It would have been rather great if we could have met a "changed" Duncan....no longer our friend and hero, ..but some sort of sinister monster ....

You can't blame people for imaginations. :)   Roleplay..is a good thing.  Continuity is a good thing.   Plot twists are wonderful..long as they're done right.

But I put it down to..again, no time, no money, no will to do it..probably.   I think too, that because of Origins, people might possibly expect "fantastic" things of Bioware, and perhaps some of those expectations turn out to be unreasonable, with hind-sight.

But you can't blame folks for hoping, wishing..or whatever.

#186
MelodicCure

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Feraele wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

In return to ostigar his body is missing, thats 1 thing, 2nd thing I cant remember what character said it (wynn or alistair) said that the darkspawn can still feel duncans power at the campsite as if hes alive. 3rdly Duncans armor was not at ostigar either so he couldnt of been eaten right there and then.


Ald, I understand you feel connected to a video game character (which is quite awesome except for how far in you are). But the guy that wrote him just told you that he is dead. He wouldn't of written it if the programmers and the rest of the devs - including the creative director - did not sign off on it. There is no "loophole" (which doesn't mean what you think it does). Make a fanfic, replay the game, just don't tell the guy that wrote Duncan that he doesn't know what he is talking about.


I think Bryy..what is going on here, is folks were expecting a plot twist, and when that didn't happen, they were of course disappointed.   Kind of along the lines of Morrigan..we kind of know that "something" may happen further down the road with her.


Actually,  I would love to never hear of her and the kid again.  Having sex with women,  making babies,  and then never seeing them and the kid again is kind of every man's dream.  haha

#187
Feraele

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

tmelange wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Jenocide wrote...
i'm sure they have something planned.

For Duncan? There is nothing planned.

Because he is dead.

Like I said, the only way he could possibly be used is in something that takes place in the past.


Why the no-love? Why harsh our squee? Can't we keep hope alive without that ice cold splash of reality? Don't you know that delusion is an essential ingredient of fandom? The Man should never take away the hope and delusions of the masses (ref. J.Whedon for appropriate behavior towards delusional fans).

Bad Bioware is Bad. Keep hope ALIVE.


Creators should NEVER pander to their more delusional fans. Some of them can be very disturbed.


Hopefully..that label is not being applied to any good folks in this thread.   I really don't think thats warranted to be honest. :)

#188
Bryy_Miller

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Feraele wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

In return to ostigar his body is missing, thats 1 thing, 2nd thing I cant remember what character said it (wynn or alistair) said that the darkspawn can still feel duncans power at the campsite as if hes alive. 3rdly Duncans armor was not at ostigar either so he couldnt of been eaten right there and then.


Ald, I understand you feel connected to a video game character (which is quite awesome except for how far in you are). But the guy that wrote him just told you that he is dead. He wouldn't of written it if the programmers and the rest of the devs - including the creative director - did not sign off on it. There is no "loophole" (which doesn't mean what you think it does). Make a fanfic, replay the game, just don't tell the guy that wrote Duncan that he doesn't know what he is talking about.


I think Bryy..what is going on here, is folks were expecting a plot twist, and when that didn't happen, they were of course disappointed.   Kind of along the lines of Morrigan..we kind of know that "something" may happen further down the road with her.

It would have been rather great if we could have met a "changed" Duncan....no longer our friend and hero, ..but some sort of sinister monster ....

You can't blame people for imaginations. :)   Roleplay..is a good thing.  Continuity is a good thing.   Plot twists are wonderful..long as they're done right.


I'm not saying imagination is bad. I even told him to make a fanfic if he is so upset. What IS bad is when your "obsession" leads you to disregard what the creator/writer says about it.

Comic-Con 2009: True Blood panel. Alan Ball was talking about why certain characters of the books were not in the series. He was practically booed off the stage. Joss Whedon fans are another good example of hysteria.

Feraele wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

tmelange wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Jenocide wrote...
i'm sure they have something planned.

For Duncan? There is nothing planned.

Because he is dead.

Like I said, the only way he could possibly be used is in something that takes place in the past.


Why the no-love? Why harsh our squee? Can't we keep hope alive without that ice cold splash of reality? Don't you know that delusion is an essential ingredient of fandom? The Man should never take away the hope and delusions of the masses (ref. J.Whedon for appropriate behavior towards delusional fans).

Bad Bioware is Bad. Keep hope ALIVE.


Creators should NEVER pander to their more delusional fans. Some of them can be very disturbed.


Hopefully..that label is not being applied to any good folks in this thread.   I really don't think thats warranted to be honest. :)


Well, this forum has seen it's fair share of disturbed or disturbing individuals (I mean, look at any of the Gay Shepard threads or the Tali threads). As far as flat out crazy? I've known a few off-the-rocker people who stalked internet forums in my time. Thankfully, none of them are here.

#189
Elastic Otter

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No "Weekend at Duncan's" in the works?


Lulz.

Modifié par Elastic Otter, 19 mars 2010 - 11:01 .


#190
Aldaris951

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Im not disreguarding David Gaiders comment that duncan is dead, I dont want him brought back to life, this is not the issue here, I want him to be honored like the King was in RTo. A plot twist that he would come back as a darkspawn would of been great too, But like i said i mainly just want a duncan DLC where we get to honor his death/body.

#191
QuixoticRogan

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There was no death. Duncan's beard defeated the infidel darkspawn and David Gaider swiftly and mercilessly. The tyrannical rule of Rutherford B. Hayes' beard will soon crumble under Duncan's immaculate glory. All hail the grand custodian of the divine beard!

#192
Bryy_Miller

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Aldaris951 wrote...

Im not disreguarding David Gaiders comment that duncan is dead, I dont want him brought back to life, this is not the issue here, I want him to be honored like the King was in RTo. A plot twist that he would come back as a darkspawn would of been great too, But like i said i mainly just want a duncan DLC where we get to honor his death/body.


Ok, Ald, it's a video game character. It's not like your actual grandpa died.

#193
QuixoticRogan

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

Im not disreguarding David Gaiders comment that duncan is dead, I dont want him brought back to life, this is not the issue here, I want him to be honored like the King was in RTo. A plot twist that he would come back as a darkspawn would of been great too, But like i said i mainly just want a duncan DLC where we get to honor his death/body.


Ok, Ald, it's a video game character. It's not like your actual grandpa died.


Be mindful of your words, unbeliever...  The beard hears all...

#194
Bryy_Miller

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QuixoticRogan wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

Im not disreguarding David Gaiders comment that duncan is dead, I dont want him brought back to life, this is not the issue here, I want him to be honored like the King was in RTo. A plot twist that he would come back as a darkspawn would of been great too, But like i said i mainly just want a duncan DLC where we get to honor his death/body.


Ok, Ald, it's a video game character. It's not like your actual grandpa died.


Be mindful of your words, unbeliever...  The beard hears all...


Your filthy Beard-Religion won't save you when the Rapture happens.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 20 mars 2010 - 01:58 .


#195
QuixoticRogan

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

QuixoticRogan wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

Im not disreguarding David Gaiders comment that duncan is dead, I dont want him brought back to life, this is not the issue here, I want him to be honored like the King was in RTo. A plot twist that he would come back as a darkspawn would of been great too, But like i said i mainly just want a duncan DLC where we get to honor his death/body.


Ok, Ald, it's a video game character. It's not like your actual grandpa died.


Be mindful of your words, unbeliever...  The beard hears all...


Your filthy Beard-Religion won't save you when the Rapture happens.


It will if it's BEARD RAPTURE!

#196
NoAngel89

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[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
David, how can you let alistair not honor duncans death? your favour character you said (alistair) and yet you dont want him to honor duncans death[/quote]
Alistair honored Duncan's death plenty. He grieved over him like a father. He just doesn't do it in Return to Ostagar -- perhaps if he'd found his body, he would have, I suppose. But he didn't. I didn't write Return to Ostagar, however, so I can't really comment on their decisions.
[quote]I mean come on we got to honor the kings death in return to ostigar, But not duncan? fair enough hes dead then as you are his writer, But at least let us honor his death[/quote]
You can honor his death all you like.
[quote]Also not every player comes on the forums, So alot of people dont know that you declared duncan dead.[/quote]
I didn't declare anything. He died at the beginning of Origins. It's part of the tragedy. Squeezing your eyes shut and clicking your heels together isn't going to make that un-happen.
[quote]its very unprofessional to leave such a loophole in this very well written lore game.[/quote]
Loophole? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
[quote]We only have your word duncan is dead but alot of the evidense in-game suggests he alive (from RTo)[/quote]
You mean... the evidence which is not there? The lack of evidence being the evidence you are speaking of?

It's flattering that you're so attached to a character I made, but at the same time a little disturbing. I suggest you accept that Duncan is dead. Sorry to break it to you, man.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be fair, David, it has been four months of conspiracy theories flying
around that were never addressed.

Sure, you can drop in to be
sarcastic, but you never confirmed or denied his status until a few days
ago when you threw it out there in a "sad face" post where people were
bagging Awakening pre-release...

If people are reacting with
suprise, it is probably due to this.[/quote]
I'm sorry... are we
supposed to run around and address every conspiracy theory that comes
down the pipe? The lack of a denial means it must be true?

Come
on. I don't generally read threads that don't look like I might have
something to say on the topic.
[quote]I have
no idea how you are handling the reaction to this non-functional
expansion.[/quote]
Which non-functional expansion? The one that
many people are playing right now?
[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol David Gaider can really be mean when he wants to be. And does it well. Just a small suggestion, don't insult his writing/profession, he does it well, and if you do, he will tear you apart. Hes just protecting his rep.

PS Gaider you should be honored people are so attacted to your character duncan, hes like shaquille o'neal of DAO, and people still want to see him play in the game. How his death was protrayed looked so msyterious, and people just want to know what happened, that all, I don't think people are/this person as you described are "obsessed" with him, they're just curious about what happen to the guy. I think it should of been better if we seen his head sliced off, since theres no body, there was no crime, and thats how people think.  Though I have to admit, how you are reacting to your fans, I wouldn't blame them if they turn sour to you. Still I wish you didn't take some of these things so seriously, they're just forums.

lol talk about a melee dual and drawing first blood with words, lol reminds me of Orghen's blood draw dual

Modifié par NoAngel89, 20 mars 2010 - 03:15 .


#197
Walina

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Aldaris951 wrote...

We get a Whole DLC burying a king no one cares about, We could of had a chance to honor duncan in RTo since david gaider confirms him to be dead, But whats this?!?! duncans body isnt in RTo so we cant even honor him? we're left with honoring a stupid king that we dont care about but Duncan gets no closure?


+10:wub:

#198
Kerilus

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Oh so venomous, so spiteful...yet so witty! Can we have you as a companion in the next sequel/expansion, Mr. Gaider? PLZZZZZZZZZZZZ?

#199
imboz

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two main characters (duncan and cailan) died at the same time? that's just so f*cking lame. epic story fail

#200
Elastic Otter

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Here's a shameless plug for a forum.
If you want to take your rant out and find out where Duncan might be, via spoof, you can go HERE--Where's Duncan?

Modifié par Elastic Otter, 20 mars 2010 - 05:59 .