105 réponses à ce sujet

[Guldborgen]

KnotEngaged wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Note: I think it would be a harder / "better" decision to have to order folks to die as opposed just jumping into the fire yourself. As long as it makes sense as to how you got into the situation I think it could add a lot dramatically.

This.
Take the suicide mission from ME2 and ratchet up the pressure and consequences.  Like the fate of an entire race may rest in the decisions you make.  Imgaine that you have to chose a certain race's fleet as a distraction force, but the chances of that race being wiped out are near 100%.  You have to chose one, but who?  The geth, rachni, krogan, humans, etc?  That would be the ultimate decision.  Chosing one race to become practically extinct in the name of the greater good.
 

As much as I'd like to agree with consequences of that action surely are big, I dont think that they are very emotionally satisfying. What I'm trying to say is that I probably wouldn't want to play through the game again just to see some other fleet die, because I dont really have any emotional attachment to this fleet, like you would have to any of your crew mates or especially your chosen LI. I think a decision deciding their fate, rather than some "abstract" fleet would be MUCH more satisfying.

I like to think that ME1 and ME2 has done a really good job of making you bond with your crew, and not using this somehow in ME3 would be a mistake. Does that mean I definetly want your crew to die? No, but missions deciding their fate would be sweet, because you would really CARE about saving them.

[Vaenier]

I want huge choices in ME3 that will radically effect the galaxy. BUT I dont want it to be a simple right and wrong choice. No choice should make the super happy ending.

We need things like the decision to rewrite or blow up the Heretic Geth, or the decision between Ashley/Kiaden on Virmire. No paragon/renegade checks, just the tough decisions of war. So no Wrex paragade check, no Saren suicide paragade check, nothing that have a magic easy button.

[implodinggoat]

Tooneyman wrote...

In ME 2 we got to choose a love interest. Well, what will happen in ME 3. What would you do if you had to choose a love interest or your crew  or its something bigger. Maybe its you choose your LI or your ship. What kind of desicion would you make in order to save the galaxy. Would you choose your LI or would you help save the galaxy. What would happen if bioware made you give the ultimate sacrifice. In order to save the galaxy you had to sacrifice yourself or even your LI to save it. I don't know if I would still be in love with my ME romance if I had to make a desicion which would decide the fate of the galaxy.

Would you save one person or save your crew on your ship. This decision was not in ME 2. Could you image it. In order to save your LI. You would have to give up your entire crew. What a weight this would be on Shepard. Also could you do it? Could you watch Ashley/kaiden/ Liara/ Tali/Jack/Jacob/Miranda/Thane/Garrus/Kelly die with if this decision this knowledge of your crew about to die. This isn't about saving your council. This is your crew. The people you die for and who gave their time for you. Joker would also be among them as would be Doctor Chakwas.

I thought a decision which demands sacrafice would be a really good use for the New Game + feature in ME3.  In ME2 there are some really tragic endings; but if you're like me you never see them because you always go the distance to save your crew and your team.   So in ME3, I think it would be pretty cool if on your first playthrough the best endings won't be available so that you'll find yourself forced to make some terrible decision; but if you play through a second time a new mission opens up during the main campaign and when you finish it you get some extra help in the final mission which lets you have your cake and eat it too (like the Paragon and Renegade dialougue choices do). 

For example on your first playthrough you might face a final decision where you have too choose between....

Paragon:  The Reapers are destroyed; but Shepard and the Normandy are also destroyed in the process.  They are all remembered as big God damned heroes.

Neutral:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive; but the Citadel is destroyed as a result of Shepard's refusal to make the ultimate sacrafice and Shepard lives out the rest of his/her life with a reputation for cowardice.

Renegade:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard survives; but in order to do so you have to sacrafice the Normandy (and her crew) and make a deal with the devil which results in the Illusive Man becoming the dictator of the entire galaxy and Shepard living out his/her days as the Illusive Man's errand boy/girl.

Then on your second playthrough two new options would open up, like...

Paragon + : The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   A huge medal ceremony is held for Shepard on the Citadel (like the end of the first Star Wars); but when Shepard is introduced, he/she doesn't show and the council (or Udina) sit around looking like jackasses wondering where Shepard is.   At which point the game cuts to Virmire where Shepard and the entire crew are hanging out on the beach living it up and drinking Margarittas.   Naturally, this scene would include gratuitous shots of Liara and Miranda in Bikinis.

Renegade +:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   Shepard makes a deal with the Illusive Man; but then he/she stabs that SOB in the back and Shepard becomes ruler of the galaxy.


So on your first play through the best you can do is a bittersweet ending; but on your second go around you gain the option to have your cake and eat it too.   Since the player will almost always choose the best ending possible setting things up like this gives the player the experience of a gut wrenching final decision; but still gives you the freedom to get the "happily ever after" ending if you put the effort into it.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 16 mars 2010 - 07:07 .

[KnotEngaged]

Guldborgen wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Note: I think it would be a harder / "better" decision to have to order folks to die as opposed just jumping into the fire yourself. As long as it makes sense as to how you got into the situation I think it could add a lot dramatically.

This.
Take the suicide mission from ME2 and ratchet up the pressure and consequences.  Like the fate of an entire race may rest in the decisions you make.  Imgaine that you have to chose a certain race's fleet as a distraction force, but the chances of that race being wiped out are near 100%.  You have to chose one, but who?  The geth, rachni, krogan, humans, etc?  That would be the ultimate decision.  Chosing one race to become practically extinct in the name of the greater good.
 

As much as I'd like to agree with consequences of that action surely are big, I dont think that they are very emotionally satisfying. What I'm trying to say is that I probably wouldn't want to play through the game again just to see some other fleet die, because I dont really have any emotional attachment to this fleet, like you would have to any of your crew mates or especially your chosen LI. I think a decision deciding their fate, rather than some "abstract" fleet would be MUCH more satisfying.

I like to think that ME1 and ME2 has done a really good job of making you bond with your crew, and not using this somehow in ME3 would be a mistake. Does that mean I definetly want your crew to die? No, but missions deciding their fate would be sweet, because you would really CARE about saving them.

I guess I'm the only one that would be bothered by the fact that I made the decision that led to the death of an entire race.  That's a big decision that would change the galaxy forever.  Imagine sending the turians, asari, or salarians to their deaths as part of the first wave or as a distraction.  People have been saying they would chose their crew or the galaxy over their LI with no problem; saving the greatest number possible.  I think it would be more powerful to have to chose a race to sacrifce themselves with no way around it.

The crew is red-shirts for the most part, as someone has already said.  I could care less if Gardener, Ken, Gabby, or Chakwas died because I saved vital squad members or an LI.  Joker would be a tough goodbye but squaddies take priority because they are actually useful and the relationships are more meaningful.  A choice between an LI vs. non-LI is a no brainer for most, if it's a 1-for-1 exchange the LI wins every time.  I hope BioWare isn't dense enough to try and trick us with a LI or entire galaxy trade off.  That would be so lame, and it's not really a choice.  Billions or 1?  Come on, that's just melodrama.

Modifié par KnotEngaged, 16 mars 2010 - 07:01 .

[apotheosic]

implodinggoat wrote...

I thought a decision which demands sacrafice would be a really good use for the New Game + feature in ME3.  In ME2 there are some really tragic endings; but if you're like me you never see them because you always go the distance to save your crew and your team.   So in ME3, I think it would be pretty cool if on your first playthrough the best endings won't be available so that you'll find yourself forced to make some terrible decision; but if you play through a second time a new mission opens up during the main campaign and when you finish it you get some extra help in the final mission which lets you have your cake and eat it too (like the Paragon and Renegade dialougue choices do). 

For example on your first playthrough you might face a final decision where you have too choose between....

Paragon:  The Reapers are destroyed; but Shepard and the Normandy are also destroyed in the process.  They are all remembered as big God damned heroes.

Neutral:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive; but the Citadel is destroyed as a result of Shepard's refusal to make the ultimate sacrafice and Shepard lives out the rest of his/her life with a reputation for cowardice.

Renegade:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard survives; but in order to do so you have to sacrafice the Normandy (and her crew) and make a deal with the devil which results in the Illusive Man becoming the dictator of the entire galaxy and Shepard living out his/her days as the Illusive Man's errand boy/girl.

Then on your second playthrough two new options would open up, like...

Paragon + : The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   A huge medal ceremony is held for Shepard on the Citadel (like the end of the first Star Wars); but when Shepard is introduced, he/she doesn't show and the council (or Udina) sit around looking like jackasses wondering where Shepard is.   At which point the game cuts to Virmire where Shepard and the entire crew are hanging out on the beach living it up and drinking Margarittas.   Naturally, this scene would include gratuitous shots of Liara and Miranda in Bikinis.

Renegade +:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   Shepard makes a deal with the Illusive Man; but then he/she stabs that SOB in the back and Shepard becomes ruler of the galaxy.


So on your first play through the best you can do is a bittersweet ending; but on your second go around you gain the option to have your cake and eat it too.   Since the player will almost always choose the best ending possible setting things up like this gives the player the experience of a gut wrenching final decision; but still gives you the freedom to get the "happily ever after" ending if you put the effort into it.

this.

i love bittersweet endings, and hate when games throw happy endings in my face just because i was smart. i think that the added scene if people die on the suicide mission adds greatly to the ending of the game,. but i didnt get to see it until my second playthrough, and even then i had to consciously try to get people killed.
your idea is awesome. although i dont necessarily support some of your ending ideas...  but thats just opinion.

Modifié par apotheosic, 16 mars 2010 - 07:25 .

[implodinggoat]

apotheosic wrote...

this.

i love bittersweet endings, and hate when games throw happy endings in my face just because i was smart. i think that the added scene if people die on the suicide mission adds greatly to the dning of the gaem,. but i didnt get to see it until my second playthrough, and even then i had to conciously try to get people killed.
your idea is awesome. although i dont necessarily support some of your ending ideas...  but thats just opinion.

I don't even support my ending ideas.   That's just what I thought up in 5 minutes while I was writing the post.  I would hope that the entire writing staff of Bioware could do better.

I do think its a good idea, though.   They introduced New Game+ just as a means to give the game replay value; but it seems to me like they overlooked its plot altering potential.   If you force a bittersweet ending on the player without a means to have everything turn out smelling like roses they'll be pissed (I would anyway) since it feels like the game is just screwing them by denying them the means to get the ending that they want no matter how hard they try.   But; if you give the player the means to get the perfect ending the first time through then they're likely to miss out on some of the more dramatic endings possible.   

To me this gives you the best of both worlds, the writers get to create tragic gut wrenching endings that the player will actually see; but the player still has the freedom to work things out perfectly if they try hard enough.  Plus it makes the replay value of NG+ far more profound.

PS:  While I don't support most of my ending ideas, I am adamant that the best ending possible would have to involve Liara and Miranda in bikinis.....or less.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 16 mars 2010 - 07:27 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Collider wrote...

I would save the crew rather than my love interest. But I'd be ****ing annoyed if Bioware did something like that to us.

But they ****ing should.

[Guldborgen]

Well, obviously the purpose of ME3 is to save the galaxy from the Reapers, and I honestly don't think there will be an ending where you don't actually do this. What I meant is that I personally think it would be stupid for BioWare not to use the fact that many players have probably bonded with their crew, and use this to make hard decision.

Might just be me that has a habit of loving BioWare characters a bit too much. <3

The thing about fleet distraction: If they implemented this, it would probably have to be implemented in such a way that one of these fleets had to die no matter what. It's a decision that has harsh consequences for whoever you choose. I'm not against a decision such as this, but for me, it wouldn't be half as satisfying as deciding the fate of your crew because you KNOW them. You don't KNOW the fleet that you are sacrificing.

The fact that an entire fleet would die would probably have a MUCH bigger impact if it was a real life scenario, but as it is, it is just a game.

[sagefic]

Collider wrote...

I would save the crew rather than my love interest. But I'd be ****ing annoyed if Bioware did something like that to us.

Agreed. And seriously, what would your LI want? Unless you romanced Jack, they're going to want you to save the crew. 

But I would *NOT* be happy if that happened. I'm still completely scarred from the demon-baby crap in DAO. Shep deserves a happy ending after all he/she's done. Or at least one that involves unlimited nookie.

[sagefic]

implodinggoat wrote...

Then on your second playthrough two new options would open up, like...

Paragon + : The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   A huge medal ceremony is held for Shepard on the Citadel (like the end of the first Star Wars); but when Shepard is introduced, he/she doesn't show and the council (or Udina) sit around looking like jackasses wondering where Shepard is.   At which point the game cuts to Virmire where Shepard and the entire crew are hanging out on the beach living it up and drinking Margarittas.   Naturally, this scene would include gratuitous shots of Liara and Miranda in Bikinis.

*raises hand*  And what are the male LIs wearing? No speedos, please.

But yeah, let's all retire to Virmire. Legion can serve drinks.

[Acero Azul]

 I would throw kelly chambers under the bus in ME3 if it saves the galaxy, she wasn't my love interest though i just don't care much for her character even after saving her from being melted.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Mallissin wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I'd break the game because my main Shepard has no LI.

Everyone wins.

And the Reapers are destroyed by the massive black hole in Shepard's heart.

Acutally reapers have awesome mass effect drive cores. They would probably survive the black hole. He would have to come up with something else. Sense they are to dang technical.

Which part of massive didn't you understand?

Sorry, hold on. Maybe this would help.

MASSIVE black hole

Get it now?

Edit note: BBCode fail.

Its nota massive black hole in my Shepards heart, its a super massive black hole

So big it breaks the game if they were misdirected enough to make this  the case.  I'm just that good.

[Big_Choppa]

I'd like to see epic endings. Though, I hope there is a 'perfect' end like I got in ME2 where I saved EVERYONE. I agree with having as many awesome endings as possible, though I'd have to pick my LI instead of the Normandy because my shepard is head over heels in love >.>

Modifié par Big_Choppa, 16 mars 2010 - 09:02 .

[Azint]

I sincerely hope that choices like that will not be in ME3. Besides, how would such an event set itself up? Improbable.

[Big_Choppa]

Azint wrote...

I sincerely hope that choices like that will not be in ME3. Besides, how would such an event set itself up? Improbable.

Hey, as much as I think those situations are improbable, theatrics and drama loves them.

[Jarcander]

I choose... d) All of above!



Surely devs can't be such douches as trying to make us feel bad about having RI's. There must be a way to get everything you want with sneaky choices. At any rate, if it came to that, I'd let Normandy burn.

[Big_Choppa]

I don't care if the 'perfect' ending his hard to get. I want all my team to survive in the end. I love them too much to see them die.

P.S. - It's crazy when video games are that good. lol

[282xvl]

Please don't imply that huge fleets won't be lost regardless. I want my huge fleet battle(S)!

[Tooneyman]

Jarcander wrote...

I choose... d) All of above!

Surely devs can't be such douches as trying to make us feel bad about having RI's. There must be a way to get everything you want with sneaky choices. At any rate, if it came to that, I'd let Normandy burn.

This is what I'm saying to get your bitter sweet ending you would have to be a full renegade or a paragon. This way you could get your so called prefect ending. Though myself I'm a paragade and renegon! I like choosing the middle road. Mostly because Its more realisitic. At least more true to life standers. I like the idea and I did like the way they through it at you in DA:O. I'm beating to many times with to many ways with each origins and I've loved those nutzy decisions. It made the game really make me think instead of just pushing the button and say ok heres my perfect ending. I bet you though with a decision like this. All the people who say they don't want it would actually go back and try to play again just to see if they could changed the end result so this way they did succeed in keeping the galaxy alive and keep their crew and love interest safe, but as for me. I would go back  and make it worth my while. I would stay middle of the road. I've re done every character except on in ME 2 and I decided to have certain people die in the suicide mission and let me tell you it wasn't easy watching them go. I even created a character to watch tali pass and I did cry.  but I gave the game even more meaning when I saw the reaction and then I saved it knowing I couldn't redo it again. With this character Tali is dead in the third game and boy Its going to be tough. I love my renegon.

[Alamar2078]

Guldborgen wrote...

<snip>

As much as I'd like to agree with consequences of that action surely are big, I dont think that they are very emotionally satisfying. What I'm trying to say is that I probably wouldn't want to play through the game again just to see some other fleet die, because I dont really have any emotional attachment to this fleet, like you would have to any of your crew mates or especially your chosen LI. I think a decision deciding their fate, rather than some "abstract" fleet would be MUCH more satisfying.

Ahh but if Tali were with the Quarian Fleet, Legion with the Geth, Kaiden/Ash with the humans, etc. then who do you send to their deaths??

Obviously there should be lots of other good examples of things like this but I can't think of more at this point.


If you knew that everyone Holding-the-Line would die who would you put there, who would you take with you, and who [if anyone] would you send to escort the crew back.   Wow.   I guess I'd have to take Tali & Legion [too important to the story i suspect] / if I don't metagame I let Thane escort the crew back / then hope for the best.

[sagefic]

Big_Choppa wrote...

I'd like to see epic endings. Though, I hope there is a 'perfect' end like I got in ME2 where I saved EVERYONE. I agree with having as many awesome endings as possible, though I'd have to pick my LI instead of the Normandy because my shepard is head over heels in love >.>

Agree! With big flashing lights on that "agree"

I think that would be the best scenario - where there *is* a way to end well (if not perfectly), but you're going to have to work for it.

Personally, I kind of think this is in the works. After all, in ME2, you find that you have multiple chances to have allies, info, tech, etc. OR you can destroy it. I think ME3 may end with certain choices giving you help to save your party or lose everything (the rachni are here to save the day. oh crap, the krogran take over, etc.)

[Collider]

Wtf? We should be able to get the best ending first time through. Whether or not you get a good ending shouldn't hinge on metagame "oh, its your second playthrough lololololololool" Sacrificing your love interest may have worked in DA:O, but that was a single game. ME is a trilogy. Don't punish us for our LIs.

[Zulmoka531]

Collider wrote...

Wtf? We should be able to get the best ending first time through. Whether or not you get a good ending shouldn't hinge on metagame "oh, its your second playthrough lololololololool" Sacrificing your love interest may have worked in DA:O, but that was a single game. ME is a trilogy. Don't punish us for our LIs.

I like the way you think.

[SimonTheFrog]

I thought it was really stupid when Fable2 made something like this. (Spoiler, if you havent played it: you pick either money and everyone dies, loads of npc's and your li's die or your li's and loads of npc's die. That was hilariously stupid and felt so forced just for the sake of a "hard decision" muahaha)



I really hope, either way, that if they make another hard choice plot thingy that they make it understandable at least.

[Lara Denton]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Wtf? We should be able to get the best ending first time through. Whether or not you get a good ending shouldn't hinge on metagame "oh, its your second playthrough lololololololool" Sacrificing your love interest may have worked in DA:O, but that was a single game. ME is a trilogy. Don't punish us for our LIs.

I like the way you think.

So do I.