105 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Tooneyman wrote...

In ME 2 we got to choose a love interest. Well, what will happen in ME 3. What would you do if you had to choose a love interest or your crew  or its something bigger. Maybe its you choose your LI or your ship. What kind of desicion would you make in order to save the galaxy. Would you choose your LI or would you help save the galaxy. What would happen if bioware made you give the ultimate sacrifice. In order to save the galaxy you had to sacrifice yourself or even your LI to save it. I don't know if I would still be in love with my ME romance if I had to make a desicion which would decide the fate of the galaxy.

Would you save one person or save your crew on your ship. This decision was not in ME 2. Could you image it. In order to save your LI. You would have to give up your entire crew. What a weight this would be on Shepard. Also could you do it? Could you watch Ashley/kaiden/ Liara/ Tali/Jack/Jacob/Miranda/Thane/Garrus/Kelly die with if this decision this knowledge of your crew about to die. This isn't about saving your council. This is your crew. The people you die for and who gave their time for you. Joker would also be among them as would be Doctor Chakwas.

I would sacrifice myself first, LI second if the other option involves several lives.  All the time in movies and shows we see world leaders having their families kidnapped and used as bargaining chips against them.  Every time I think to myself that if these leaders aren't willing to lose these individuals for the greater good, they have NO RIGHT being the leader.  

1 person, while tragic, cannot compare with the lives of several others unless that one person is someone of great importance(like the Council).  I watched Bastila be tortured, and if necessary I would have sacrificed her for the mission.  It was just too important.  If you saved your LI, they would forever resent your decision.  Look at how guilty Kaiden/Ash felt after you chose to save one over the other?  Imagine how much pain your LI would be in if you sacrificed *everyone* for them?  They would know that it's their fault that the rest of the team is dead.

It's kind of like the end of Fable 2.  You get to choose who to bring back.  1) Your sister/brother 2) Any family you had that was killed just to spite you(husbands/wives/kids) 3) Every single other individual who was killed during the course of the game.  This decision is as obvious as it is painful.  Taking 3 is the only one that makes sense.  Taking any other is just horribly selfish, and leaves the cost of many, many lives on your hands.

[CmdrFenix83]

Mondo47 wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I'd sacrifice myself before someone I love or a loyal ship and crew... not having the third choice would be something of a massive tear-yourself-in-two copout.

As long as it doesn't force that choice on me like some Bioware RPGs I could mention *ahem*

'Ey, that's Riordan's fault. Stupid Orlesian idiot shoulda told us -before- the Landsmeet about the sacrifice, and then Alistair and I coulda got together and cackled evilly as we planned to toss Loghain to the archdemon.

Granted. I just didn't like playing for 30+ hours only to be told I either die, deprive the realm of a king, sell the soul of humanity or allow a douchebag to regain honour he didn't deserve. I felt like I was being punished for having morals and not having a penis

Eh?  Us with penises got screwed over just as bad at the end, ya know.

[CmdrFenix83]

implodinggoat wrote...

apotheosic wrote...

this.

i love bittersweet endings, and hate when games throw happy endings in my face just because i was smart. i think that the added scene if people die on the suicide mission adds greatly to the dning of the gaem,. but i didnt get to see it until my second playthrough, and even then i had to conciously try to get people killed.
your idea is awesome. although i dont necessarily support some of your ending ideas...  but thats just opinion.

I don't even support my ending ideas.   That's just what I thought up in 5 minutes while I was writing the post.  I would hope that the entire writing staff of Bioware could do better.

I do think its a good idea, though.   They introduced New Game+ just as a means to give the game replay value; but it seems to me like they overlooked its plot altering potential.   If you force a bittersweet ending on the player without a means to have everything turn out smelling like roses they'll be pissed (I would anyway) since it feels like the game is just screwing them by denying them the means to get the ending that they want no matter how hard they try.   But; if you give the player the means to get the perfect ending the first time through then they're likely to miss out on some of the more dramatic endings possible.   

To me this gives you the best of both worlds, the writers get to create tragic gut wrenching endings that the player will actually see; but the player still has the freedom to work things out perfectly if they try hard enough.  Plus it makes the replay value of NG+ far more profound.

PS:  While I don't support most of my ending ideas, I am adamant that the best ending possible would have to involve Liara and Miranda in bikinis.....or less.

See, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  New Game + should never be anything more than a gimmick.  I absolutely hated that it was required to max a character in ME1.  Playing through the entire game a second time with zero upgrades to gear and only getting a couple more skill points was boring as hell.  The story never changed, since it was the same character going through the motions again.  Even if you can get some differences, it's still the same character.

If you want to use that long-career achievement for that basis, I suppose that's ok, it just means my first playthrough needs to be my new Abigale Shepard that just had half her crew die because while she's a good soldier, she's terrible at leading others.  (Lost unit on Akuze, lost someone at every opportunity during suicide mission, etc).

[Collider]

I agree 100% with Fenix. We shouldn't be gimped just because of NG+. NG+ should remain something that is done just for fun. And having a lame ending the first time through ruins the impact. The first playthrough is the most important and the most poignant.



Don't punish us for our LIs.

[Tooneyman]

Collider wrote...

I agree 100% with Fenix. We shouldn't be gimped just because of NG+. NG+ should remain something that is done just for fun. And having a lame ending the first time through ruins the impact. The first playthrough is the most important and the most poignant.

Don't punish us for our LIs.

Though it would be like ME 2 in the suicide missions. If you worked things out right from the beginning of ME 3. You could get your ultimate happy ending, but you would definitely have to pursue a  renegade or paragon status on your end result.

[Tooneyman]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

In ME 2 we got to choose a love interest. Well, what will happen in ME 3. What would you do if you had to choose a love interest or your crew  or its something bigger. Maybe its you choose your LI or your ship. What kind of desicion would you make in order to save the galaxy. Would you choose your LI or would you help save the galaxy. What would happen if bioware made you give the ultimate sacrifice. In order to save the galaxy you had to sacrifice yourself or even your LI to save it. I don't know if I would still be in love with my ME romance if I had to make a desicion which would decide the fate of the galaxy.

Would you save one person or save your crew on your ship. This decision was not in ME 2. Could you image it. In order to save your LI. You would have to give up your entire crew. What a weight this would be on Shepard. Also could you do it? Could you watch Ashley/kaiden/ Liara/ Tali/Jack/Jacob/Miranda/Thane/Garrus/Kelly die with if this decision this knowledge of your crew about to die. This isn't about saving your council. This is your crew. The people you die for and who gave their time for you. Joker would also be among them as would be Doctor Chakwas.

I would sacrifice myself first, LI second if the other option involves several lives.  All the time in movies and shows we see world leaders having their families kidnapped and used as bargaining chips against them.  Every time I think to myself that if these leaders aren't willing to lose these individuals for the greater good, they have NO RIGHT being the leader.  

1 person, while tragic, cannot compare with the lives of several others unless that one person is someone of great importance(like the Council).  I watched Bastila be tortured, and if necessary I would have sacrificed her for the mission.  It was just too important.  If you saved your LI, they would forever resent your decision.  Look at how guilty Kaiden/Ash felt after you chose to save one over the other?  Imagine how much pain your LI would be in if you sacrificed *everyone* for them?  They would know that it's their fault that the rest of the team is dead.

It's kind of like the end of Fable 2.  You get to choose who to bring back.  1) Your sister/brother 2) Any family you had that was killed just to spite you(husbands/wives/kids) 3) Every single other individual who was killed during the course of the game.  This decision is as obvious as it is painful.  Taking 3 is the only one that makes sense.  Taking any other is just horribly selfish, and leaves the cost of many, many lives on your hands.

But the difference in Fable three is you couldn't avoid the decisions. They were forced on you and in all honesty your family didn't even comment on what happened. In ME 3 bioware could make you talk to the people after words to find out their opinions on what happend which would give the game and awesome incentive to want to know what happens after your choice and after many other paly throughs. This would make it very much more rewarding than fable 2 ever had. I mean yeah people commented on what you did if you sacrified your family in the good decision, but it didn't have the meaning I thought it would it just felt empty. When I played ME 2 and heard the crews comments after the mission and seeing the reaper army coming I realized bioware could make this happen with some serious spice.

[Collider]

Tooneyman wrote...

Collider wrote...

I agree 100% with Fenix. We shouldn't be gimped just because of NG+. NG+ should remain something that is done just for fun. And having a lame ending the first time through ruins the impact. The first playthrough is the most important and the most poignant.

Don't punish us for our LIs.

Though it would be like ME 2 in the suicide missions. If you worked things out right from the beginning of ME 3. You could get your ultimate happy ending, but you would definitely have to pursue a  renegade or paragon status on your end result.

Here's the thing, I don't want to have to be a jerk to keep my romance. I also don't think it should be thing where you can miss the thing you need for a happy ending in the beginning of the game, rather it should be something like ME2 where it's decided by whether you are prepared or not for the reapers.

[Gocad]

I know that could be hard to swallow for some, but having a LI is NOT mandatory. It's therefore unlikely that an optional event could suddenly become a central plot point.

[alickar]

Collider wrote...

I would save the crew rather than my love interest. But I'd be ****ing annoyed if Bioware did something like that to us.

i agree strongly

[PseudoEthnic]

Gocad wrote...

I know that could be hard to swallow for some, but having a LI is NOT mandatory. It's therefore unlikely that an optional event could suddenly become a central plot point.

/thread

[Commissar Gash]

implodinggoat wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

In ME 2 we got to choose a love interest. Well, what will happen in ME 3. What would you do if you had to choose a love interest or your crew  or its something bigger. Maybe its you choose your LI or your ship. What kind of desicion would you make in order to save the galaxy. Would you choose your LI or would you help save the galaxy. What would happen if bioware made you give the ultimate sacrifice. In order to save the galaxy you had to sacrifice yourself or even your LI to save it. I don't know if I would still be in love with my ME romance if I had to make a desicion which would decide the fate of the galaxy.

Would you save one person or save your crew on your ship. This decision was not in ME 2. Could you image it. In order to save your LI. You would have to give up your entire crew. What a weight this would be on Shepard. Also could you do it? Could you watch Ashley/kaiden/ Liara/ Tali/Jack/Jacob/Miranda/Thane/Garrus/Kelly die with if this decision this knowledge of your crew about to die. This isn't about saving your council. This is your crew. The people you die for and who gave their time for you. Joker would also be among them as would be Doctor Chakwas.

I thought a decision which demands sacrafice would be a really good use for the New Game + feature in ME3.  In ME2 there are some really tragic endings; but if you're like me you never see them because you always go the distance to save your crew and your team.   So in ME3, I think it would be pretty cool if on your first playthrough the best endings won't be available so that you'll find yourself forced to make some terrible decision; but if you play through a second time a new mission opens up during the main campaign and when you finish it you get some extra help in the final mission which lets you have your cake and eat it too (like the Paragon and Renegade dialougue choices do). 

For example on your first playthrough you might face a final decision where you have too choose between....

Paragon:  The Reapers are destroyed; but Shepard and the Normandy are also destroyed in the process.  They are all remembered as big God damned heroes.

Neutral:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive; but the Citadel is destroyed as a result of Shepard's refusal to make the ultimate sacrafice and Shepard lives out the rest of his/her life with a reputation for cowardice.

Renegade:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard survives; but in order to do so you have to sacrafice the Normandy (and her crew) and make a deal with the devil which results in the Illusive Man becoming the dictator of the entire galaxy and Shepard living out his/her days as the Illusive Man's errand boy/girl.

Then on your second playthrough two new options would open up, like...

Paragon + : The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   A huge medal ceremony is held for Shepard on the Citadel (like the end of the first Star Wars); but when Shepard is introduced, he/she doesn't show and the council (or Udina) sit around looking like jackasses wondering where Shepard is.   At which point the game cuts to Virmire where Shepard and the entire crew are hanging out on the beach living it up and drinking Margarittas.   Naturally, this scene would include gratuitous shots of Liara and Miranda in Bikinis.

Renegade +:  The Reapers are destroyed and Shepard and the Normandy survive.   Shepard makes a deal with the Illusive Man; but then he/she stabs that SOB in the back and Shepard becomes ruler of the galaxy.


So on your first play through the best you can do is a bittersweet ending; but on your second go around you gain the option to have your cake and eat it too.   Since the player will almost always choose the best ending possible setting things up like this gives the player the experience of a gut wrenching final decision; but still gives you the freedom to get the "happily ever after" ending if you put the effort into it.

I really like the Renagade+ ending, but I still want the bikini scene and in place of saying: "I should go" I want to say:  "I have a Galaxy to run" and I want a cigar.

[Tooneyman]

AS for a bikini scene in the game you should just let it go. Vermie is radiated now. Its call you will be on the beach soking up the cancer cells. with the walking grey craps you killed with your nuke and I don't think any of the shepards wants to go back to a place where they killed off one of their crew mates.



When it comes to this ultimate decision. I don't think it would be forced on you, but it would be a good option depending on how your decision through the beginning of the game came about. It would definitely have an affect on your opinion and if it created a hug emotion then it would have done its job.

[tdb023]

I don't see us having to choose the crew over the LI. I do however see us having to choose to die, or let the Reapers win.

[tango jack]

I would pick the Normandy / Crew everytime over the love interest as I believe in the old saying...

" We must sacrifice the few if all are to be saved '''

This I think will definitly apply in ME3 where we will have to let some go to defeat the Reapers and save the galaxy.

[Onyx Jaguar]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Gocad wrote...

I know that could be hard to swallow for some, but having a LI is NOT mandatory. It's therefore unlikely that an optional event could suddenly become a central plot point.

/thread

Yes

[thegreateski]

I don't have an LI . . . I wonder what would happen.

The game pauses, a little pop up window comes up saying:

"You didn't romance anyone? wtf is wrong with you?"

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 mars 2010 - 01:40 .

[Elessara]

I'm a happy ending kind of person. I will go the extra mile to save everyone. I will jump through hoops. But darn it I want the main char and their friends and family to live at the end! Ok for those who want the option fine, give them the option. I'm ok with that. But while they should have the option to make an uber dramatic decision to agonize over in a game then I should have the decision to to have a happily ever after.

[noobzor99]

This thread is essentially asking me to choose between liara and garrus.

.....
.....
.....
reflex response is Garrus but if this came up in game i would be sitting at that choice for hours.

[Dreykov]

Tali will have to die in this thread. I'm a specture. The Mission always comes before myself.

[Tooneyman]

Dreykov wrote...

Tali will have to die in this thread. I'm a specture. The Mission always comes before myself.

You would give up tali for the galaxy and the crew. You disappoint me Tali cultist, I'm sorry in my personal opinion. I'm saving her. HEHE. By crew!

[BurningArmor]

Actually, my femshep, Jane Shepard, has already had the choice of LI or crew on Virmire.  In that first, play through I still assumed Kaiden would arm the bomb and board Normandy.  Best laid plans...

Instead, I balanced the number of people that would be saved.  Jane saved Williams and the surviving STG members on the AA Tower.

As you can imagine, Jane was grouchy for awhile.

[Tooneyman]

BurningArmor wrote...

Actually, my femshep, Jane Shepard, has already had the choice of LI or crew on Virmire.  In that first, play through I still assumed Kaiden would arm the bomb and board Normandy.  Best laid plans...

Instead, I balanced the number of people that would be saved.  Jane saved Williams and the surviving STG members on the AA Tower.

As you can imagine, Jane was grouchy for awhile.

This is what I'm talking about for the ultimate decision something like this. It makes sense and bioware made you choose. If we got way more of these I think I would just burst with joy.

[Collider]

Tooneyman, the problem is that your "ultimate choice" is lopsided. You'd have to be a ****** to choose your LI over multiple people. Whereas the Ashley/Kaidan choice was between two equally human people.

[Raphael diSanto]

Collider wrote...

Tooneyman, the problem is that your "ultimate choice" is lopsided. You'd have to be a ****** to choose your LI over multiple people. Whereas the Ashley/Kaidan choice was between two equally human people.

Actually BurningArmor has it right.

The Virmire choice isn't between two people.

It's between one person and a squad (or what's left of them)

On one hand you have:

One soldier, who has already set the bomb to go off, thus the mission is going to be successful, no matter what.

and on the other hand

The remains of Captain Kirrahe's STG Team, plus your other crew member.

The purely mathematical choice will always be the AA Tower team, not whoever's with the bomb. The only reason to go back to the person with the bomb is because they're your LI and you don't want them to die. And that's not a tactical reason at all, that's an emotional one.