158 réponses à ce sujet

[Sunnie]

BeckShort wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Just because BW is in Canada, does not mean they are exempt from US laws

Canada is exempt from US laws. 

You are honestly pathetic if you're threatening to sue over a character dying.  I don't think it was bad writing at all - the joining is dangerous, like it or not.  Just...Jesus Christ, Sunnie22.

Wow, did I say that "I" was going to go sue them? NO I don't think so, but there are people and ambulance chasing attorneys that would definately go for it.  So before you go saying anything else, stop being an ass and read/comprehend what was said.  I understand well what would be a likely result in such a suit, as Default pointed out and he is right, but that doesn't stop the sue crazys. Oh, and by the way, no company is exempt from US laws while doing business within its borders or within its terratories.

[Rocket_Propelled_Grenade]

I love that she was built up so much before being killed. Made me feel all the more invested in the game when the sucker punch came.

[bobtheworm]

I got on here an specificly looked for this thread. I was just shocked. I was waiting for her to walk through the door like it was some sick joke being played by the guy running the Joining. I am halfway tempted to tell her off at the beginning of the game and tell her she isn't wanted to see if she survives. Much like I was half tempted to be a Doomsayer in Denerim and tell everyone to run before its too late after the landmeet.



I can understand the whole, "Someone has to die at the Joining" thought process. But do you know what makes heroic stories heroic? It is when everyone survives and they go on to save the world. I mean you also have to ask yourself why Fort Drakkon puts the weapons and armor of the immates right outside their cells and not in the commander's office.



This was a sour taste a the begining of the game only lightened by Anders who makes up for Alistair not being there.

[Bryy_Miller]

Le_Mieux wrote...

It's what is known in the industry as, 'Bad Writing'.

Lazy writers will often use this as what they think as a clever way to convince the player/reader that, 'sh** just got real'. When in fact it's just a dick move.

Basically they create and kill a character to give the illusion of the trope, 'Everybody Dies', without actually affecting the story or the world at all.

Um, actually, everything you said is completely wrong. The 'Everybody Dies' trope is NOT a negative, and using death to convey shock or urgency is very good writing, especially if it's an unexpected situation. The only way character death is Bad Writing is if it's the 'Deus ex Usefulness' trope or the 'Women in Fridge' trope.

[Wraith of Shadow]

SirenCurse wrote...

That does not make any sense!? Why did they introduce her as a member of your group if she just going to die early in the game?? I mean they did not do that with Daveth and Jory who both died at the joining in DAO...

I rather think this is exactly why they did it this way. If you'd walked up with her and two other generic characters who want to become grey wardens, well it wouldn't take a genious to figure out who wouldn't survive the joining. This was essentially a feint, a literary misdirection if you will. They wanted someone to die but it couldn't just be some random NPC, it'd be too obvious since they did that in the original game.

Modifié par Wraith of Shadow, 17 mars 2010 - 07:42 .

[Sabriana]

Now that would've been a cool turn-around. Have her and two generic characters start the game with the PC, build her up, make the PC care, and then have her die while two generics survive.

The thing is, that most people expected someone to die. I just wish it wasn't the warrior. I watched someone play (didn't get further than up top) but she was awesome, smacking people around.

I mean, it was always said that there were 5 new companions and returning old one. So it was a given that someone would kick the bucket. I rather hoped it would have been anyone but her (yes, "anyone" includes the femMage and the femRogue)

[elearon1]

Actually, I was kind of disappointed no one else ever died during the joining - After the first batch you aren't forced to put your recruits through the process, so it would have been fun to see one of them die when you force them to go through with it.

[ImNotTrent]

Mhair is the Jowan/Bride/Groom/Daveth/Jory... etc etc etc. they play a small part in starting the story, then they die. and really, someone who wanted so badly, waited so long to become a warden, was pretty much destined to die when they finally got the chance.

[Sabriana]

ImNotTrent wrote...

Mhair is the Jowan/Bride/Groom/Daveth/Jory... etc etc etc. they play a small part in starting the story, then they die. and really, someone who wanted so badly, waited so long to become a warden, was pretty much destined to die when they finally got the chance.

And that should've been the dead give-away. The only other one who actually wanted to join was Oghren, and we all know that it wouldn't have been in the least dramatic to see an 'old favorite' die.

[Burningwolf]

Why couldnt it have been oghren that died?*sighs* THAT would have been epic.

[Maria Caliban]

cachx wrote...

Couldn't they just have killed a redshirt during the joining and have the girl die in a more dignfied, better written way?

As I understand it, Mhairi was a redshirt. Her function was to help squishy mage and rogue characters through the beginning part and then die.

The Real Bowser wrote...
Daveth and Jory were throw-away characters, not characters we were planning on playing with throughout the game.  That's why it's bad writing.

Mhairi was a throw-away character. She was a throw-away character that players believed would be a permanent companion. However, trailers on the BioWare website aren't the game's writing. If BioWare made a trailer suggesting Morrigan was a sweet and loving gal without issues, that wouldn't make Morrigan a poorly written character or David a hack writer.

People are conflating two different issues:
1. The trailers were misleading - which is true
2. The character and her part in the story was poorly written - which is not true

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mars 2010 - 09:18 .

[MutantSpleen]

Look if they are going to get actually invited to the Joining then they are going to have some character; just like Daveth and Jory. Having some no-name, mute be at the joining that dies; now that would have been bad writing. The fact that people actually liked her and she died is good writing, it has emotional weight.

[Oslegend]

Well, I mean as she was doing the joining I was thinking to myself "she won't make it, she won't make it" and guess what?? She didn't. So I mean, as much as I wanted her in the party, it just wasn't meant to be.

[Darth Wraith]

Burningwolf wrote...

Why couldnt it have been oghren that died?*sighs* THAT would have been epic.

Epic indeed.

"Aaaah, a cup full of some liquid. Give it here. *Chug* *Burp* Hey, did you hear that one about..." *Dies*

That one would have been pure awesome.

Modifié par Darth Wraith, 17 mars 2010 - 10:09 .

[RedScorpion08]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Well, I was worried that I may be wasting my hard earned money. I looked at the box real hard and long and decided to go ahead and take a chance. Boy am I disapointed. With all the hype and claims of new companions and the hype that led just about everyone to believe she was going to be around for a while, I'll bet one of those ambulance chasing attornies advetising on TV would love to get a hold of this as a class action suit. All sorts of false advertising in this, and there are laws in the US against false advertising. Not a really great move I'd say.

As an attorney I just have to say: You are a very special individual and have undoubtedly brought your parents great great joy.  Every sentence of your pragraph is a model exercise in expertly crafted stupidity.  Way to do our great public education system credit. Bravo! *claps awkwardly while drooling and attempting to bite his own shoulder*

class action law suit over a story mechanism in a videogame?  Are you that mental?  

Personally, I have been playing the expansion for about 7 hours and I'm loving it.  The pacing is much better than Origins and the new characters are interesting.  (I'm a little bit bugged that my Blood Dragon Armor and Starfang did not make the transfer...)  I find it amazing that so many people are getting upset about a character that doesn't make it past the joining, but cest la vie.  It's a VIDEO GAME!  (and in my opinion, it's been very well done... Especially for an expansion...)

I guess it's a testament to the writing and character design that so many people are upset that Mhairi, a supporting character, dies.

[RedScorpion08]

Banesydhe wrote...

Someone dying at the Joining doesn't confuse me. What confuses me is why she was advertised as a companion for the expansion when it's clear now she was temporary at best.

She WAS a companion.  Just not one that lasted very long.

[Super_Cat]

Charzonsos wrote...

Yet, I am peeved they chose the first Female warrior party member to kill off... they chould have choosen someone else... but what do ya do...

I know, that annoyed me too. It sends a really bad message when the two men beside her survive but she, the only female, dies.

I know it probably wasn't intentional but the fact remains is that joining scene sends me a slight misogynist vibe, but as I said, that is only my feeling, I don't think the writers intended that.

Modifié par Super_Cat, 17 mars 2010 - 11:48 .

[Le_Mieux]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Le_Mieux wrote...

It's what is known in the industry as, 'Bad Writing'.

Lazy writers will often use this as what they think as a clever way to convince the player/reader that, 'sh** just got real'. When in fact it's just a dick move.

Basically they create and kill a character to give the illusion of the trope, 'Everybody Dies', without actually affecting the story or the world at all.

Um, actually, everything you said is completely wrong. The 'Everybody Dies' trope is NOT a negative, and using death to convey shock or urgency is very good writing, especially if it's an unexpected situation. The only way character death is Bad Writing is if it's the 'Deus ex Usefulness' trope or the 'Women in Fridge' trope.

If you had read all of my post it would make sense.  The trope, 'everybody dies' is only good when it actually matters.  I never implied that the trope itself was bad...I think when done right it's great and keeps the audience on it's toes and can make for some extremely powerful moments.  Full Metal Alchemist did it in a brilliant way I thought.  However what Bioware did was create a personna exclusively for the purpose to be killed.  There will be no powerful moments, because this is just a 'red shirt' to us...except it's a 'red shirt' that was advertised as a companion in order to have the audience have some pseudo attachemnt to her.  Personally I would have loved to seen a character that actually mattered die.

That is what makes it bad writing. 

It's rug-pull move and never makes anyone happy in any situation.  At best you will have Bioware loyalists hesitantly defending it like a crazy friend.

So, yes...it's still bad writing.

Modifié par Le_Mieux, 17 mars 2010 - 12:29 .

[inkaholicj]

I cannot even begin to tell you how pissed this makes me. Walks away fuming . . .

[Venatio]

So much for a female warrior, but hey atleast we got a male mage this time around.  Women arent the only ones that can where skirts!

Modifié par Venatio, 20 mars 2010 - 11:28 .

[Darth Wraith]

Those bastards promised 6 new characters, not 5 new ones and an old one, 6. 

Actually, 5 new characters and 1 returning old one is EXACTLY what they promised when they first announced the game. You jumping to conclusions because she got her own trailer on the Awakening site is certainly not BioWare's fault.

[Walina]

That's really stupid of Bioware introducing her as a companion just to make her die at the begigin of the game!
Lol!!

[Nudo Judo]

Well, from the reactions in this thread, the attempt by the writers to convey the inherent danger of being a warden, and the frustration one must feel when having to endure it, was quite successful. Well done, BioWare.
Besides, I imagine that if NO ONE died during the Joining, then people would complain how the Joining is supposed to be super lethal, yet no one relevant seems to die from it.
By the way, they also sold Jory as a potential companion, or as a meaningful character, a while ago. I remember one of the writers putting Jory in some list of what type of drink a character would want... or maybe it was chocolates. Whatever. Jory and Duncan were mentioned along with Leliana, Sten, and others. Granted, Jory didn't get his own trailer, and they even spoiled his fate in a trailer if I remember properly, so it's not the exact same. But still, c'mon.

Modifié par Nudo Judo, 17 mars 2010 - 11:14 .

[Dan_cw]

Not played the game yet. Should have it tomorrow. But I've watched a few let's play videos on YouTube.

I've just been playing through Origins again. I just did the Joining. Is it just me who would, if I saw the fact that two characters can't level up, realise that a character wouldn't be with you for long? Regardless of whether that meant they left you for whatever reason or died. Honestly, the way it was done (assuming she has an exp bar and everything that progresses indicating she'll be playable for quite some time), makes you not think she's going to die. Therefore, it hits you harder and that is the intent. I'm a writer myself and if I were to write a scene where a character dies, I would want it to hit people hard.

And honestly, the complaints surrounding everything in the game is pretty unbelieveable. I mean, mentioning sueing because a video game character dies? Yeah, that'll fly. I'm sure you won't get laughed out of the courtroom. Doesn't matter if you weren't meaning you yourself would sue. It's just the fact it was even brought up.

Edit: Anyway, to clarify, it's alright being dissapointed etc. but really, people take things too far. And I really do not share the sentiments that it's bad writing. Hell, if I write something, I want to give the impression that anyone could die at any given time. It gets people invested. (and before anyone brings it up in case they do, I'm not published. Haven't even sent anything off but I've been practising for quite a few years.) However, if she was advertised as a full fledged companion, I can somewhat understand what's said as I mentioned above. Doesn't take away the fact that people are over-reacting.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 17 mars 2010 - 11:58 .