158 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

I for one thoroughly approve that Bioware at least made an attempt to disguise the fact that Mhari dies, by giving her approval and everything. I want to be surprised, even if I admit I had a hunch she might be the one to die at the joining. It's boring when story becomes predictable.



I can still understand why people get disappointed that they don't get a proper tank spec character at start unless they are sword and shield warriors themselves though. That part felt like bad planning.

[CybAnt1]

True enough, people didn't expect her to die and some of us wanted to use her for the rest of the expansion, being announced prior to release and all. But then, people didn't expect Yoshimo to betray you in BG2 and some of us wanted to use him for the rest of that game. Should I blame Bioware for Yoshimo's betrayal? If they said that Mhairi will die in the promo it would be a spoiler, not to mention how much of a spoiler would be if they said "you might not want to use Yoshimo as a companion and waste xp on him because he will ultimately betray you" prior to BG2's release. **** happens, get over it

Dunno. It seems to me that it's different because Yoshimo's betrayal is an integral plot element. It's a key part of the story arc. Adding to the list of things the foul Irenicus has done, he even slipped a "mole" into your group. 

There also was the character in the 1st NWN OC - forget her name at the moment (NWN companion names don't stay with me, wonder why that is) - she's a farmer who you eventually turn into a warrior - she dies, and it ends up she was the daughter of the evil wizard you were looking for. Again, fine, you lose her in the middle, too, but it neither seems as abrupt or as unnecessary as this. It's very plot-fulfiliing. 

The point is, the Mhairi death seems unnecessary (plotwise) as compared to the other two situations. OK. Joining is serious. Someone can die. (Others will belch). Fine. Give us a real redshirt who also accompanies us (i.e. no approval bar) goes to the Joining, dies. Makes the same point. It just didn't seem to add anything to the plot, really, for her to die there. I might have felt better if she steps in front of an arrow to save your life, or something a bit more noble. And yes it happens early enough in the game that you couldn't build much 'attachment' to her, but that may also be why it feels worse than what happens in BG2 and NWN - where it just feels like when you lose them in the middle, it wasn't so early & so abrupt. 

[RazorrX]

I like how they made her a cool warrior companion and then she dies in the joining.  It was a nice way to show how dangerous and harsh it is to be a Warden.  So kudos for that.

HOWEVER - in the same scene they had Drunk Deadbeat Dwarf just Burp.  Way to trivialize the ritual.  Why kill a cool fighter and have Nug Guts just Burp?

Now if there was a random chance for any party member to die, that would rock!  I would save the game prior to ritual and play it over and over to watch Nug Guts die! 

[RazorrX]

CybAnt1 wrote...

True enough, people didn't expect her to die and some of us wanted to use her for the rest of the expansion, being announced prior to release and all. But then, people didn't expect Yoshimo to betray you in BG2 and some of us wanted to use him for the rest of that game. Should I blame Bioware for Yoshimo's betrayal? If they said that Mhairi will die in the promo it would be a spoiler, not to mention how much of a spoiler would be if they said "you might not want to use Yoshimo as a companion and waste xp on him because he will ultimately betray you" prior to BG2's release. **** happens, get over it

Dunno. It seems to me that it's different because Yoshimo's betrayal is an integral plot element. It's a key part of the story arc. Adding to the list of things the foul Irenicus has done, he even slipped a "mole" into your group. 

There also was the character in the 1st NWN OC - forget her name at the moment (NWN companion names don't stay with me, wonder why that is) - she's a farmer who you eventually turn into a warrior - she dies, and it ends up she was the daughter of the evil wizard you were looking for. Again, fine, you lose her in the middle, too, but it neither seems as abrupt or as unnecessary as this. It's very plot-fulfiliing. 

The point is, the Mhairi death seems unnecessary (plotwise) as compared to the other two situations. OK. Joining is serious. Someone can die. (Others will belch). Fine. Give us a real redshirt who also accompanies us (i.e. no approval bar) goes to the Joining, dies. Makes the same point. It just didn't seem to add anything to the plot, really, for her to die there. I might have felt better if she steps in front of an arrow to save your life, or something a bit more noble. And yes it happens early enough in the game that you couldn't build much 'attachment' to her, but that may also be why it feels worse than what happens in BG2 and NWN - where it just feels like when you lose them in the middle, it wasn't so early & so abrupt. 

That was NWN 2 OC not NWN1.

[ZeRux]

Emerald Melios wrote...

ZeRux wrote...

She's the only NPC who dies in the Joining and she wasn't in the party long enough for you to become attached to her. So it's a far deal.

BEing stuck with Oghren isn't fair at all...

Truely 'twould be fairer if Oghren died instead of her. But life isn't alway fair, so that's just being picky

Being the only remaning Warden in Ferelden, you take everything you got, even a dwarven drunkard who pisses in his armor during fights :happy:

[marz311]

They could have totally made the death's random when each character would go into the joining so that people can go around the water cooler and discuss who died in whose game due to the joining. Sure there's a chance that every one of your new characters can die and you have to solo the rest of the game but it makes it more fun and tense.

[CybAnt1]

That was NWN 2 OC not NWN1.

Yep. Shandra Jerro, daughter of Ammon Jerro. She was in NWN2 OC. 

I guess we don't need to give spoiler warnings for other games, so I won't.

Yes, she dies, but it's not bad from either a story or practical point of view. #1, it's the main thing that helps you to change Ammon Jerro from adversary to party member. It's very integral to the plot. #2, the game was practically packed full of NPCs, losing her was no big deal from that POV, either. #3 it doesn't happen right at the beginning. 

Plus I think she dies a lot more nobly and purposefully than Mhairi.

Frankly, I even thought the way the Seneschal discussed it was kind of ... tasteless, too. "Oh. Looks like the redshirt just died. OK, gang, move her corpse before she smells up the room." Very ... unceremonious. 

[bzombo]

Xandurpein wrote...

I for one thoroughly approve that Bioware at least made an attempt to disguise the fact that Mhari dies, by giving her approval and everything. I want to be surprised, even if I admit I had a hunch she might be the one to die at the joining. It's boring when story becomes predictable.

I can still understand why people get disappointed that they don't get a proper tank spec character at start unless they are sword and shield warriors themselves though. That part felt like bad planning.

it doesn't take long to find oghren. he's a tank. whether or not someone likes him is a personal thing and bioware is not going to please everyone's personal tastes. the darkspawn are weak in the beginning anyway, so a mage and mhairir are enough to get to oghren and at that point it does not matter if mhairi dies. i did like her though. i wish she lived, but she didn't. i felt bad.

[Devil_666]

ZeRux wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...


Maybe. Doesn't it seem a bit odd then to write a promo for her on the site and on the forums? Here's this great new char, Mhairi! Oh did we mention she dies right at the beginning ?! They didn't write a promo for Jory or Daveth. They didn't write a promo for the Ishal Tower guard. I have no problem with redshirt temps; just make clear they are who they are. 

Again, that's what makes her more of a psyche-out job. Just irritating. 

True enough, people didn't expect her to die and some of us wanted to use her for the rest of the expansion, being announced prior to release and all. But then, people didn't expect Yoshimo to betray you in BG2 and some of us wanted to use him for the rest of that game. Should I blame Bioware for Yoshimo's betrayal? If they said that Mhairi will die in the promo it would be a spoiler, not to mention how much of a spoiler would be if they said "you might not want to use Yoshimo as a companion and waste xp on him because he will ultimately betray you" prior to BG2's release. **** happens, get over it
At least Mhairi dies early and not half-way through the game like Yoshimo

Well, i really dont know how it was with BG2, was there also announced that hes your companion, and i dont even really care, thats history! It would have even been cooler if she would turn against you in the end, than just drop dead! Man how lame.
And even so, why always the few cooler characters have to have such an idiotic end, isnt there still enough clown's in the party to choose from? I would trade any of them in for Mhairi, except Velanna.
At least one of them i could get rid of, the wuzzy Howe boy (hmm... did BW really think... well now we made an awesome character lol) my ass he is now he got hanged (H) I havent finished the awakening yet, but i hope he stay's dead

[IceTitan]

They made her that way so you would care about the character.

Makes the death more angering etc.... alot of the stuff with DA and ME 2 was miss informations and such. Some find things like that a good way to keep people wondering. They hyped her as a companion, for the sole reason of making her dying more tragic in your eyes. They hyped Legion was stalking you to kill you, thought people would expect lies and deception in the mix by now. Everyone has different ways of advertising ways, bioware just took a different approach and made people cry foul, and the honest answer, what bioware did is acceptable. Just people are spoiled and want everything, without giving anything.

It's a plot line, you can't live with it, then it's your problem for not adapting to it.
Stories more than often never always go the way you'd like. Take Blizzard, they never make good endings, it always ends bad, or worst.. never a nice/good ending.  If stories always went the way you wanted, it wouldn't be much of a plot, and wouldn't be worth it's weight in paper/data.

If you can't accept things as they are, then you really only have yourselves to blame and hate. I ain't defending awakening, but getting sick of American's whinning like cry babies then swining the suing book around like idiots for things that should of been expected to begin with.

You don't like the story, mod it it's that simple. Otherwise stop whining like spoiled children and go play something else.

Modifié par IceTitan, 13 avril 2010 - 08:31 .

[Devil_666]

IceTitan wrote...

They made her that way so you would care about the character.

Makes the death more angering etc.... alot of the stuff with DA and ME 2 was miss informations and such. Some find things like that a good way to keep people wondering. They hyped her as a companion, for the sole reason of making her dying more tragic in your eyes. They hyped Legion was stalking you to kill you, thought people would expect lies and deception in the mix by now. Everyone has different ways of advertising ways, bioware just took a different approach and made people cry foul, and the honest answer, what bioware did is acceptable. Just people are spoiled and want everything, without giving anything.

It's a plot line, you can't live with it, then it's your problem for not adapting to it.
Stories more than often never always go the way you'd like. Take Blizzard, they never make good endings, it always ends bad, or worst.. never a nice/good ending.  If stories always went the way you wanted, it wouldn't be much of a plot, and wouldn't be worth it's weight in paper/data.

If you can't accept things as they are, then you really only have yourselves to blame and hate. I ain't defending awakening, but getting sick of American's whinning like cry babies then swining the suing book around like idiots for things that should of been expected to begin with.

You don't like the story, mod it it's that simple. Otherwise stop whining like spoiled children and go play something else.

urrr lol
well if you were smart enough you would have understood it wasnt whining
Everyone just wrote what they thought about this "playable" character, and if for you it made it more tragic...  then congrats to you lol
Also actually with the death of Mhairi i wouldnt say its the ending, its more like the beginning, and thats the point
And well Blizzard endings hah... Rock'nRoll racing, Lost Vikings - cant say the endings were so bad  lol  it didnt happen that oops after the first level olaf dies (6)
Mhairi is like in Diablo 2 the recruitable mercenary, who can die anytime
Game companies after all make games for players not for themselves.

[Thalorin1919]

Devil_666 wrote...

IceTitan wrote...

They made her that way so you would care about the character.

Makes the death more angering etc.... alot of the stuff with DA and ME 2 was miss informations and such. Some find things like that a good way to keep people wondering. They hyped her as a companion, for the sole reason of making her dying more tragic in your eyes. They hyped Legion was stalking you to kill you, thought people would expect lies and deception in the mix by now. Everyone has different ways of advertising ways, bioware just took a different approach and made people cry foul, and the honest answer, what bioware did is acceptable. Just people are spoiled and want everything, without giving anything.

It's a plot line, you can't live with it, then it's your problem for not adapting to it.
Stories more than often never always go the way you'd like. Take Blizzard, they never make good endings, it always ends bad, or worst.. never a nice/good ending.  If stories always went the way you wanted, it wouldn't be much of a plot, and wouldn't be worth it's weight in paper/data.

If you can't accept things as they are, then you really only have yourselves to blame and hate. I ain't defending awakening, but getting sick of American's whinning like cry babies then swining the suing book around like idiots for things that should of been expected to begin with.

You don't like the story, mod it it's that simple. Otherwise stop whining like spoiled children and go play something else.

urrr lol
well if you were smart enough you would have understood it wasnt whining
Everyone just wrote what they thought about this "playable" character, and if for you it made it more tragic...  then congrats to you lol
Also actually with the death of Mhairi i wouldnt say its the ending, its more like the beginning, and thats the point
And well Blizzard endings hah... Rock'nRoll racing, Lost Vikings - cant say the endings were so bad  lol  it didnt happen that oops after the first level olaf dies (6)
Mhairi is like in Diablo 2 the recruitable mercenary, who can die anytime
Game companies after all make games for players not for themselves.

I think I just got a migaine.

[GardenSnake]

Man I said she be dead! Lol. Bioware are good at doing that, posting phoney party members on the site. In Origins I was promised Duncan was in my party, after he died I was like..... what the **** is this ****?! Mhairi wasn't a tragic loss however I wasn't expecting that to happen. Good twist.

[Devil_666]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Devil_666 wrote...

IceTitan wrote...

They made her that way so you would care about the character.

Makes the death more angering etc.... alot of the stuff with DA and ME 2 was miss informations and such. Some find things like that a good way to keep people wondering. They hyped her as a companion, for the sole reason of making her dying more tragic in your eyes. They hyped Legion was stalking you to kill you, thought people would expect lies and deception in the mix by now. Everyone has different ways of advertising ways, bioware just took a different approach and made people cry foul, and the honest answer, what bioware did is acceptable. Just people are spoiled and want everything, without giving anything.

It's a plot line, you can't live with it, then it's your problem for not adapting to it.
Stories more than often never always go the way you'd like. Take Blizzard, they never make good endings, it always ends bad, or worst.. never a nice/good ending.  If stories always went the way you wanted, it wouldn't be much of a plot, and wouldn't be worth it's weight in paper/data.

If you can't accept things as they are, then you really only have yourselves to blame and hate. I ain't defending awakening, but getting sick of American's whinning like cry babies then swining the suing book around like idiots for things that should of been expected to begin with.

You don't like the story, mod it it's that simple. Otherwise stop whining like spoiled children and go play something else.

urrr lol
well if you were smart enough you would have understood it wasnt whining
Everyone just wrote what they thought about this "playable" character, and if for you it made it more tragic...  then congrats to you lol
Also actually with the death of Mhairi i wouldnt say its the ending, its more like the beginning, and thats the point
And well Blizzard endings hah... Rock'nRoll racing, Lost Vikings - cant say the endings were so bad  lol  it didnt happen that oops after the first level olaf dies (6)
Mhairi is like in Diablo 2 the recruitable mercenary, who can die anytime
Game companies after all make games for players not for themselves.

I think I just got a migaine.

Good for you.

[Lolomlas]

I think they wanted her to be a party member, but BioWare cut her out, because they wanted to finish the game faster. I think. I hope in some DLC they bring her back somehow.

[IvAn HaHa_]

ahhh my dream wish a pretty party member and she says "i have been waiting for this",i grabbed on my chair as she says that and she drinks and falls dead WTF!!!!!!

[Sarah1281]

well that sucked,why couldnt you use some cerebral matter and have some real consequences such as...

1,recruit oghren and he dies but mhairi lives,

2.dont recruit ohgren and mhairi dies

3.dont recruit either ohgren or anders and mhairi lives

Because it would make no sense whatsoever? Seriously, Mhairi dies because her body cannot handle the taint. What the hell does whether Oghren or Anders try the Joining, Mhairi's approval, what she's wearing, or anything else you could possibly do or say have to do with that?

[Sarah1281]

jojimbo wrote...

what makes no sense is killing off the only human female (oh wait no romance) awakenings is a real epic ****ing fail,i refuse to play it,what happened to choice? its nothing but a lazy arsed dlc for dwarf lovers and elves

You realize that from the dwarves and elves we have to put up with Oghren and Velanna, right?

And saying Mhairi dying takes away your choices is like saying Daveth and Jory dying took away your choices. Did that ruin the game for you?

And who cares if you don't have a human female party member? Origins gave you three whereas Sigrun is the first dwraf female and Velanna is the first elven female you have and there's no male elf in your party in Awakening either.

Also, how does not having every single random person you meet survive the Joining not make sense? It's weird that Oghren, Nate, Sigrun, Anders, and Velanna all survive.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 juillet 2010 - 09:12 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Can't say we weren't warned either. BioWare did say that not everyone we have undertake the Joining would live. Sucks that Mhari is the one who didn't, but hardly worth stopping a game entirly. Esp since you've already paid for it.



I didn't particularly like either of the warriors available to us and spent pretty much the whole game with Sigrun or Nathaniel/Velanna/Anders and beat it without anytrouble what so ever. Even after my PC lost all her equipment in the Mines. (That bug I can see there being more b***hing over.)



As Sarah said, frankly it's more surprising that the other six live.

[SirGladiator]

I felt like it should be more up to the player whether each character survives the joining or not. We should've had some way to help strengthen them, prepare them for the joining in some fashion or other, and if we don't do it or don't do it right, they die. Instead they all live or die regardless of how much or how little you care about them, it seems there's real room for improvement there. To be honest, after reading all the negative stuff about Mihairi dying, I'm a bit surprised by how little I actually cared when it happened. She was with you so little, you don't really get to know her.



I can understand though, if I had been one of those folks who were paying super close attention to the pre-release information they were putting out (I didnt, I prefer being surprised) I might've been mad too, apparently from what I've read they implied that she would be a real team-mate, and then she wasn't, clearly that is not cool if that's what happened. For me, the worst part about it was that she died and Oghren lived. That sucked really bad, certainly if one had to die I would've much rather it have been him than Mihairi. Bringing back Oghren while giving you a superior Warrior in Mihairi, only to take her away while leaving you still with Oghren, is just all kinds of wrong .

[Sarah1281]

But HOW could anything you possibly did (except, I guess, maybe blood magic) influenced whether they could handle the taint or not? Some people are just naturally more resistant to it than others.

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But HOW could anything you possibly did (except, I guess, maybe blood magic) influenced whether they could handle the taint or not? Some people are just naturally more resistant to it than others.

Oghren apparently to such a degree that he stays conscious through the whole ordeal... I always hated that.

[TJPags]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

But HOW could anything you possibly did (except, I guess, maybe blood magic) influenced whether they could handle the taint or not? Some people are just naturally more resistant to it than others.

Oghren apparently to such a degree that he stays conscious through the whole ordeal... I always hated that.

Oh, that was one of the 2 funniest scenes in Awakenings!!!

(the other being when you first see Ohgren, and he waves)