264 réponses à ce sujet

[Wicked 702]

Sunder_2 wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

I have a right to demand a product that is free from errors. If you disagree then you are the type of person that is willing to settle for mediocrity. I for one, am not. I expect perfection, as should any consumer, and I don't believe that it is unreasonable.
This product is mediocre, not because of its content but because of its execution. I will not purchase a product that is poorly executed. Correct the errors with this and the original or forget me as a customer now and in the future. DA coding reminds me of Windows Millennium.

.....yeah, I went there.

If you're refering to a PC game.......that's hardly fair.  I agree that I don't see the value in the game at $40 and plenty of reasons not to purcchase the game.  But less be realistic.  Any PC gamer should know that there is no such thing as an error free game that will work on everyone of the thousands upon thousands of rigs out there.  By your reasoning no one should ever buy any PC game again. Period........hardly something that would help us PC game attics.

No, you're missing the point. In the past, customers blindly expected their computers and software to work perfectly and without issue. When they didn't (obviously), the backlash generally forced companies to fix the problems with their product. We have now reached a point where people "understand" that computers and programs don't always work perfectly and they now accept it.

Let me explain. (Disclaimer: Numbers are for relative descriptive purposes, not realistic estimates.) Before, you'd want a program working at 100% and it'd be 80%. You complain and they patch it up to 90% capacity. Certainly acceptable. Now, you accept that a program won't be perfect. Now you only want it working at 90% but they send you one working at 60%. Now they patch it up to 75% and you simply accept it. That's just wrong. You should still demand 100% and expect them to get as reasonably close as possible. 75% is not reasonable.

Oh and by the way, perfection is absolutely possible. Anytime someone tells me that perfection is unreasonable I point them to a little Japanese company named Square Enix (formerly Squaresoft). Whatever you think about their games or their content doesn't matter the simple fact is that they have consistently delivered nearly 100% bug free products on a regular basis. It can be done....

[kingthrall]

tell that to the people of CA for giving me Empire total war. and i give you a golden handshake

[cptncanuck]

Personally I don't know why people are fussing so much about it. There are differences about it sure, but nothing that breaks a character or anything so extreme.

My biggest upset was how a character just bursting with potential gets put down before we even got to know her



If you do pop back into this thread, Chris, and you do have some imput on the 'which character gets whacked commity', I would suggest - as a customer and fan - that you implement some way (direct or otherwise) that the player gets to choose which character is in line to get killed. I know that I instantly started over from scratch to see if I could somehow complete the joining without said character dying, and from the sounds of it so did many others.

God forbid that anything like that happened in ME3 - the world might just implode if Tali died and there was nothing we could do about it

[Default137]

melkathi wrote...

Sunder_2 wrote...

If you're refering to a PC game.......that's hardly fair.  I agree that I don't see the value in the game at $40 and plenty of reasons not to purcchase the game.  But less be realistic.  Any PC gamer should know that there is no such thing as an error free game that will work on everyone of the thousands upon thousands of rigs out there.  By your reasoning no one should ever buy any PC game again. Period........hardly something that would help us PC game attics.

There is a reasonable amound of bugs one should make allowance for, that's true. But that does not mean any amound of bugs is reasonable. From what I see on the forum and from what I know of patch 1.03, Awakening is past that reasonable line, at least for some of us.

?

Whats so bad about 1.03?

All I know is you can't steal stuff, and it crashes every so often if you have below requirements PC

There are TWO ENTIRE classES that can't pickpocket people in most games, even in Dragon Age there is very little point to picking up stealing other then to do Slim Couldys missions, and after you've done them once, not much reason to do them again, unless you really desperatly need money, but after awhile, you should be rolling in cash anyway.

[Wicked 702]

@: cptncanuck

I see you've never heard of the corrupt saves bug? Or perhaps the issue with the dwarf city quest lines (no spoilers here)? Or the many other bugs as have already been so meticulously detailed by the DA community?



@ Default 137

Oh nothing, only that it's something they intentionally put in the game for people to use. And it doesn't work. But settling for mediocrity is ok, now isn't it?

[Default137]

Wicked 702 wrote...

@: cptncanuck
I see you've never heard of the corrupt saves bug? Or perhaps the issue with the dwarf city quest lines (no spoilers here)? Or the many other bugs as have already been so meticulously detailed by the DA community?

@ Default 137
Oh nothing, only that it's something they intentionally put in the game for people to use. And it doesn't work. But settling for mediocrity is ok, now isn't it?

Ho Ho, I disagree with you, time to insult me, how mature you must be, I thought we passed such things in Kindergarten.

Its a feature that has very few uses, and very little addition to the story, none of the things you steal throughout the game are actually very useful, and really, the only reason to take it is to do the Slim Couldy missions to make a decent bit of sidecash. I understand people being slightly peeved by not being able to steal things in a video game, sure, I'd be mildly annoyed if it actually affect my game to ( even thought it doesn't, and I play on PC, obviously it affects everyone, and not just the vocal forum minority ), but its such a minor thing in the game, that using it for an excuse not to buy something that pretty much everyone on the forums are agreeing is a damn good game, that adds many new useful features to the game, and is a great addition to the franchise, is well, its pretty hilariously petty.

Now if we were talking something big, like spells not getting the correct spellpower, or dexterity still being broken, or armor not mitagating anything, then yeah, then its time to start throwing an uproar, and wondering why Bioware isn't fixing these issues, and starting little rawr I will not buy this game until you fix this MAJOR issue. But its fuggin stealing, it does nothing, its like throwing a fit because you can't see people on the minimap with Survival, OH NO WHAT WILL I DO.

[Masticetobbacco]

just buy it



2 outcomes can happen:

Bioware makes enough profit and still retains the motivation to create an amazing Dragon Age 2

or Bioware gets lazy due to excess profit and dragon age starts to decline in quality

[Wicked 702]

Thank you for proving my point.

Instead of being willing to accept "small issues", as you deem them, why not ask for EVERYTHING to work as intended? Is that really too much to ask?



Fair warning, that's a loaded question. If you say no, then I'm right. If you say yes, then you are willing to settle for less than perfect in which case, I'm still right.

[Moogliepie]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Sunder_2 wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

I have a right to demand a product that is free from errors. If you disagree then you are the type of person that is willing to settle for mediocrity. I for one, am not. I expect perfection, as should any consumer, and I don't believe that it is unreasonable.
This product is mediocre, not because of its content but because of its execution. I will not purchase a product that is poorly executed. Correct the errors with this and the original or forget me as a customer now and in the future. DA coding reminds me of Windows Millennium.

.....yeah, I went there.

If you're refering to a PC game.......that's hardly fair.  I agree that I don't see the value in the game at $40 and plenty of reasons not to purcchase the game.  But less be realistic.  Any PC gamer should know that there is no such thing as an error free game that will work on everyone of the thousands upon thousands of rigs out there.  By your reasoning no one should ever buy any PC game again. Period........hardly something that would help us PC game attics.

No, you're missing the point. In the past, customers blindly expected their computers and software to work perfectly and without issue. When they didn't (obviously), the backlash generally forced companies to fix the problems with their product. We have now reached a point where people "understand" that computers and programs don't always work perfectly and they now accept it.

Let me explain. (Disclaimer: Numbers are for relative descriptive purposes, not realistic estimates.) Before, you'd want a program working at 100% and it'd be 80%. You complain and they patch it up to 90% capacity. Certainly acceptable. Now, you accept that a program won't be perfect. Now you only want it working at 90% but they send you one working at 60%. Now they patch it up to 75% and you simply accept it. That's just wrong. You should still demand 100% and expect them to get as reasonably close as possible. 75% is not reasonable.

Oh and by the way, perfection is absolutely possible. Anytime someone tells me that perfection is unreasonable I point them to a little Japanese company named Square Enix (formerly Squaresoft). Whatever you think about their games or their content doesn't matter the simple fact is that they have consistently delivered nearly 100% bug free products on a regular basis. It can be done....

I'm glad you brought this up. Another game designer who is unwilling to release a product that isn't perfected is Shigeru Miyamoto, of Legend of Zelda fame. He is known for delaying the release dates of many of his games to make sure they come out right. . That is because he considers his games works of art.

[Densha82]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

just buy it

2 outcomes can happen:
Bioware makes enough profit and still retains the motivation to create an amazing Dragon Age 2
or Bioware gets lazy due to excess profit and dragon age starts to decline in quality

What about refusing to buy it and telling Bioware/EA that when it comes to single player RPGs in the future that we would like more than 10-15 hours of play time for $40? 

[Masticetobbacco]

yea I bought DAO for 29.99 CAN rofl

[camcon2100]

whodawhanow wrote...

Why is this even an issue? He stated he wouldn't buy it and gave reasons. Instead of arguing or agreeing with him, just nod and go on to the next topic. Posting that he isn't going to buy it just proves it was an attention grabber and really is only for himself and not for Bioware or EA.

Sorry you don't like a game you have never played. Rest assured that the rest of us who do get it will enjoy it for it's own values.

Devolopers need to understand that we wont open our mouths for them to **** all over in them. It is bull****!!!!!!!! He has a right to be upset when something is trash you tell them its trash

Modifié par camcon2100, 17 mars 2010 - 02:34 .

[Wicked 702]

Moogliepie wrote...

I'm glad you brought this up. Another game designer who is unwilling to release a product that isn't perfected is Shigeru Miyamoto, of Legend of Zelda fame. He is known for delaying the release dates of many of his games to make sure they come out right. . That is because he considers his games works of art.

Thank you for listing another.

I'm quite sure, with a little diligence and research, I could come up with a decent list of developers that have this type of work ethic. I just can't believe people want to see this as the exception instead of demanding it be the norm.

[camcon2100]

danabe wrote...

Livemmo owner of yet another whine thread! What a suprice!.... Not realy...

Spell surprise right please...............Thanks

[camcon2100]

I wish they followed borderlands dlc. What a good way to spend my money 15 hours for 5 bucks

[mottaaf]

Sunder_2 wrote...

Where they really missed the boat to me is not making new skills, respecs, talents, ect. backwards compatable to Origins. I have not made up my mind if I am going to get Awakenings or not, and this is one thing that may have tempted me. Plenty of great expansions have really no tie to previous campaigns and work great. NWN is a perfect example (and to a lesser extent NWN2). However both of these games added spells, skills, classes, ect that could be used in the previous game as well. In NWN2 I bought both expansions and both games added character classes and skills that could be used in the previous ones. Pretty simple, yet they did'nt do it. It would have added a whole lot of worth to the expansion as it would have added much replay value to DA:O........as it is- its just a stand alone game that I am surprised you would even need to own DA:O to play. (More like Company of Heroes or Dawn of War titles where expansions are stand alone.) Personally I think expansions that explore different areas & characters are preferable to continuing a story that usually has ran its course.

This is why I refuse to pay 40 dollars for this "expansion."  Also, this

[danabe]

camcon2100 wrote...

danabe wrote...

Livemmo owner of yet another whine thread! What a suprice!.... Not realy...

Spell surprise right please...............Thanks

Is this the point when i am supposed to be pointing out that you left out a dot in the end of the sentence? Grow up. <_<

[Crysee]

lol. im 6 hours in and im loving it!!! I think you need to play more before you judge this game so harshly.

[Arcaneailment]

So you started a thread to **** about the semantics of "expansion" versus "episode"?

Sweet deal, OP.

[MassFrost]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

Bioware makes enough profit and still retains the motivation to create an amazing Dragon Age 2

I think this is going to happen regardless of how well Awakening sells.

[Livemmo]

Arcaneailment wrote...

So you started a thread to **** about the semantics of "expansion" versus "episode"?

Sweet deal, OP.

So you made that comment to **** about me ****ing about the semantics of "expansion" versus "espisode" even though thats really not even what the thread is about?

Sweet deal, mindless intruder.

How about next time you post your crap you take the time to read past the first sentence of the original post? Too much to ask?

[Sunder_2]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Sunder_2 wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

I have a right to demand a product that is free from errors. If you disagree then you are the type of person that is willing to settle for mediocrity. I for one, am not. I expect perfection, as should any consumer, and I don't believe that it is unreasonable.
This product is mediocre, not because of its content but because of its execution. I will not purchase a product that is poorly executed. Correct the errors with this and the original or forget me as a customer now and in the future. DA coding reminds me of Windows Millennium.

.....yeah, I went there.

If you're refering to a PC game.......that's hardly fair.  I agree that I don't see the value in the game at $40 and plenty of reasons not to purcchase the game.  But less be realistic.  Any PC gamer should know that there is no such thing as an error free game that will work on everyone of the thousands upon thousands of rigs out there.  By your reasoning no one should ever buy any PC game again. Period........hardly something that would help us PC game attics.

No, you're missing the point. In the past, customers blindly expected their computers and software to work perfectly and without issue. When they didn't (obviously), the backlash generally forced companies to fix the problems with their product. We have now reached a point where people "understand" that computers and programs don't always work perfectly and they now accept it.

Let me explain. (Disclaimer: Numbers are for relative descriptive purposes, not realistic estimates.) Before, you'd want a program working at 100% and it'd be 80%. You complain and they patch it up to 90% capacity. Certainly acceptable. Now, you accept that a program won't be perfect. Now you only want it working at 90% but they send you one working at 60%. Now they patch it up to 75% and you simply accept it. That's just wrong. You should still demand 100% and expect them to get as reasonably close as possible. 75% is not reasonable.

Oh and by the way, perfection is absolutely possible. Anytime someone tells me that perfection is unreasonable I point them to a little Japanese company named Square Enix (formerly Squaresoft). Whatever you think about their games or their content doesn't matter the simple fact is that they have consistently delivered nearly 100% bug free products on a regular basis. It can be done....

I think its more of a misunderstanding.  I agree that any bugs that show up on any significant amount of PCs should not happen & should be all but non-existant on consoles.  I was just stating it is quite literally impossible to QA test for every possible configuration of graphic cards, hard drives, processors, audio systems, ect, ect, ect.  Therefore bugs are going to happen.  Anyone that has ever worked with a windows based Operating system can tell you that no 2 PCs are gauranteed to work the same way with the same software.  Blame Bill Gates and marketing I guess.  They could have delayed production another year & stll had some bugs that cropped up on some end user PCs.  Now the the stealing bug and other wide rtanging issues?  That is pathetic & more evidence that quality continues to be replaced quanity & eye candy in the gaming world.  Truthfully, I was not aware of the 1.03 issues until they came up in this thread.  Inexcusable.  Along with the missing backwards compatabilty to Origins, missing DLC (which the community managed to create a mod for the same day as release-  really?  Musta been some HUGE tech issues there Chris & Gaider!), general arrogance, and that DA:O was not the game I was hoping for(admittedly that is strictly my opinion & fully understand others feel different), the joke that the DLC was,  and price all go into the decision that this will not be purchased til steam has a bargain basement price maybe long down the road.

[The_Abyss]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Moogliepie wrote...

I'm glad you brought this up. Another game designer who is unwilling to release a product that isn't perfected is Shigeru Miyamoto, of Legend of Zelda fame. He is known for delaying the release dates of many of his games to make sure they come out right. . That is because he considers his games works of art.

Thank you for listing another.

I'm quite sure, with a little diligence and research, I could come up with a decent list of developers that have this type of work ethic. I just can't believe people want to see this as the exception instead of demanding it be the norm.

You must be new to western game companies.

[AlanC9]

If you don't want people talking about stuff you don't consider relevant, Livemmo, then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't bring up that stuff yourself. You're the one who put the definition of expansion in play.

[Bratt1204]

Cyjack wrote...

Meh.

I think I could have been happy with Awakenings if it was billed as a "module" at a 15-20$ pricepoint.  It's not an "expansion". It does nothing to "expand" the original campaign.  The new skills/talents/specs dont apply outside of the short ( in comparison to the orginal game campaign) campaign.  Generally, "expansions" add content to the original game, in addition to  a new campaign, like Throne of Bhaal did.


It's basically just a little more of the same, for nearly the same price as the full original game.  Priestly can spin all he wants, but Awakening is not a good value.  And the storyline/characters are so divorced from the original campaign, its hard to view it as an expansion on the original story  either.


It's not *bad*, but its hard not to feel a little ripped off, especially in light of the *still* bug-ridden nature of the original game.   Bioware has delivered better in the past.

Who thought this was a good idea?? I am just baffled by this