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Windows or Mac?

Débuté par Guest_Captain Cornhole_* , mars 16 2010 09:23

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#51
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 09:40

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Godak wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

Out of curiosity, did she use a Windows notebook when comparing it to a Macbook or a desktop? Also, were they of comparative generations? Luc0s opinion is pretty common here. One of my artist acquaintances swears by Macs too. This is the first I've heard of someone preferring Windows for that.


She was using her Dell Laptop, and my cousins brand new (as in: opened that day) Macbook. It might help that my sister is a bit of a computer nerd, so she can probably do more with a computer than your average graphic arts student.


Dells... I hate those things, no seriously, I really do. I had a Dell before I had my first Macbook, I got really really really angry and frustrated at my Dell several times. I even yelled at my Dell once. Can you believe it? Yelling at a laptop? It must have looked really silly, but I was so angry after it failed me for the 3rd time in 2 months, and I had to send my Dell back for repairs for the 4rd time in 1 year.

My Dell was not even all that bad when it comes to specs, it was one with a 2,4ghz processor (dualcore), not bad a for a laptop, yet, it didn't run Photoshop for sh*t if I worked at A4 scale on 300dpi, and don't get me started on video-editing. Something that's doomed to fail on an ordinairy laptop, but not on a Macbook. Heck, my Macbook Pro runs After Effects smoother than my previous Windows dektop pc.

Besides, Dell laptops are clunky and ugly, they're not easy to take with you if you also have to carry around 3 big books for art and animation classes.

The fact that your sister is a PC nerd does play a huge role. Macs give you less control when it comes to tweaking your OS, the Mac OS X is a little more closed-in so it's not easy to get to the vital parts of the OS, something I consider as good because that way regular computer users or newbies can't screw up their system by doing something stupid they couldn't do or shouldn't even be able to do in the first place. My vision on Mac OS X is: "if it's not broken, don't try try to fix it".
Mac OS X works fine the way it does, so instead of feeling the urge to tweak and change the system, just take a little time to get used to the OS.

It's funny that 99% of all computer tech people hate Macs only because they refuse to take the time to get to know their system. Instead they moan about how it's not the same as they're used to with Windows and they're angry that they can't alter or mod the system. Instead of learning how a Mac works (really people, it's not that hard and it can do a lot more awesome ánd usefull things than you might think) they say sh*t like "wehhhhh I can't mod my system now I'm angry Mac sucks Apple are stupid facist bastards!".

#52
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 09:50

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On the whole Mac v.s virus thing:

The market share of Macs (less than 10% of all computer users own a Mac) is one reason why there aren't any active viruses for Mac's right now, but there is another reason.

The vital core and systems of Mac OS X are really locked in and closed to the public, even the user. The OS X kernel is the core, it's locked and the rest is build around it. Windows is not like that.

The fact that the OS X kernel is UNIX-based also plays a role. UNIX is more stable and secure. Look at Linux, that OS hardly gets any viruses either, even though Linux is completely open-source.

Also, when you want to make a vital change in Mac OS X or if you want to install a new program (even with auto-execute), you'll always be prompted to fill in your password. Note that this only happens if you install or execute new programs for the first time.

So even if a working virus got on my Mac and auto-executed, a window would pop-up to ask me if I really want to run this program and it will ask me to fill in my user password. That way I, as a user, am always fully aware if a new program gets executed for the first time. It's a simple but effective security method.

Modifié par Luc0s, 17 mars 2010 - 10:04 .

#53
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 09:56

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Noilly Prat wrote...

Uh... I wasn't defending life in a bubble.  I was simply giving a contrary view using an analogy that had already been brought up.

I think analogies are fine, for argumentative purposes, but let's not take it too literally now.  Fact is, human biology and computer hardware are two different things, and should not be equated except in a purely rhetorical sense.  The last time I checked, I don't think that my body's immune system was subject to market considerations in its ability to defend me against infection.  (Okay, perhaps in a very indirect sort of way, with the pharmaceutical industry's influence in doctor prescriptions and the effect that can have on one's immunity, but that's another matter.)

We can argue over the comparative advantages to having a great immune system while being barraged with a constant viral and bacterial onslaught versus having a weak immune system while having relatively few environmental contaminants to worry about, but I don't think it's really worth it.  Personally, I'm not that interested in defending my choice of computer.  I'm not one of those Mac users.  I fully admit that the choice comes down mostly to personal preference.  We all have our own personal preferences, and I'm not about to suggest that anybody else's is wrong, or try to dress up my own personal preference in purportedly objective criteria.


I'm with Nolly Prat here. Well said, sir.

#54
Caozen
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 10:22

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"If I put poop on a stick and said it was from Apple, would you buy it?"

#55
Guest_Celrath_*
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 10:24

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Caozen wrote...

"If I put poop on a stick and said it was from Apple, would you buy it?"


Only if it had a touch screen and was compatible with the app store and Itunes. They could call it the iPoo

Modifié par Celrath, 17 mars 2010 - 10:27 .

#56
Guest_Captain Cornhole_*
Posté 18 mars 2010 - 01:07

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Luc0s, you do realize Dell only assembles and provides the parts for the computer.

#57
Sloth Of Doom
Posté 18 mars 2010 - 01:10

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Captain Cornhole wrote...

Luc0s, you do realize Dell only assembles and provides the parts for the computer.


You mean poorly assembles and provides inferior proprietary parts for the ill-designed computer.  Right?

#58
Balerion84
Posté 18 mars 2010 - 08:25

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Luc0s wrote...


The vital core and systems of Mac OS X are really locked in and closed to the public, even the user.

Users don't create viruses though. That's the important thing.


Luc0s wrote...


The fact that the OS X kernel is UNIX-based also plays a role. UNIX is more stable and secure. Look at Linux, that OS hardly gets any viruses either, even though Linux is completely open-source.

Seriously, why would anyone make viruses for Linux? Those 10 people using it aren't worth it. Same with Mac.


Luc0s wrote...


Also, when you want to make a vital change in Mac OS X or if you want to install a new program (even with auto-execute), you'll always be prompted to fill in your password. Note that this only happens if you install or execute new programs for the first time.

So even if a working virus got on my Mac and auto-executed, a window would pop-up to ask me if I really want to run this program and it will ask me to fill in my user password. That way I, as a user, am always fully aware if a new program gets executed for the first time. It's a simple but effective security method.

I'm no expert on viruses, but seeing how it's possible to hijack a fully updated Mac through Safari under 10 seconds, I'd say that if Macs had Windows' market share and got the attention of hackers/crackers/etc., you'd be running a Firewall and Anti-virus right about now :)

Here, a good interview with Miller about the vulnerability of Macs:
blogs.zdnet.com/security/

Macs are not "secure", they are just ignored. That's the difference people need to realize.

Modifié par Balerion84, 18 mars 2010 - 08:30 .

#59
Noilly Prat
Posté 18 mars 2010 - 08:36

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Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Noilly Prat wrote...

I can be a bit pretentious, admittedly, but not when it comes to computers.


Liking Noilly Prat dosn't make you pretentious, it just means you know how to mix a good martini :D


That's how I like to think of it!

*adjusts monocle*

#60
orpheus333
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 04:53

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When it comes to working with audio, engineering or creating. Macs have no advantages next to equivalent PCs. In fact the PC is easier to customize for audio input/outputs. I use macs regularly but have yet to experience that life changing epiphany when using them. OS X is just another operating system to me, and it has just as many annoying  quirks as a windows based system. More actually.

Just my two pence worth.

Modifié par andyr1986, 19 mars 2010 - 05:00 .

#61
Bann Duncan
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 05:52

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Godak wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

Out of curiosity, did she use a Windows notebook when comparing it to a Macbook or a desktop? Also, were they of comparative generations? Luc0s opinion is pretty common here. One of my artist acquaintances swears by Macs too. This is the first I've heard of someone preferring Windows for that.


She was using her Dell Laptop, and my cousins brand new (as in: opened that day) Macbook. It might help that my sister is a bit of a computer nerd, so she can probably do more with a computer than your average graphic arts student.


It's very possible though that the Dell was simply a more powerful machine. I like both platforms and have no interest in the system wars but, in my experience, for PS and such on a Mac and a PC with equal specs, the former has always outperformed the latter (probably because of the OS architecture.) I use a Mac because that way I can run both OS X and W7 on my system.

As for those talking about Macs being far more expensive - this is true on the lower end of the Mac spectrum, but not so much on the high end Macs these days, which work out to being about the same price as and sometimes even cheaper than similarly equipped PCs.

#62
Mordaedil
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 07:33

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All I know is that every time I try to be creative on a mac by doing HTML, PHP, using Photoshop or 3ds Max, it ****s itself and dies because it can't handle anything.



Also, it's overpriced for the hardware you get.

#63
Dahn-Var Starcloak
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 09:34

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Well what have we here...



"...I've got a friend of a friend of a buddy of a pal who can hack into
mac in 2.8 sec- he's so good, he only needs a root password to
accomplish this extraordinary feat..."



"...macs are communists' latest plot to achieve world domination..."



"...Steve Jobs is practising witchcraft *and* he's got a poor fashion
taste..."



"...apple doesn't *care* about updating security issues..."



"...macs are too expensive..."

"...macs suck because they use
hardware more efficiently and we're jealous..."

"...macs suck
simply because they don't agitate you with registry-related problems and hence we're even more jealous..."

.
.
.
et cetera ad nauseam

What can I say - dogs bark,
caravan moves forward.

That said, I'm using Windows XP but will
soon switch to Win 7 64-bit. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]



Mordaedil wrote...



All I know is that every time I try to
be creative on a mac by doing HTML, PHP, using Photoshop or 3ds Max, it
****s itself and dies because it can't handle anything.



Define 'creative', Mordy. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

In
your place I'd do the hardware test before anything else- if Photoshop
is crashing on a mac, that's too damn suspicious.

#64
the_one_54321
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 09:37

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Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...
"...macs are too expensive..."
"...macs suck because they use hardware more efficiently and we're jealous..."
"...macs suck simply because they don't agitate you with registry-related problems and hence we're even more jealous..."

One could easily argue that these are all actually serious problems that are deeply interrelated.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 19 mars 2010 - 09:42 .

#65
Dahn-Var Starcloak
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 09:43

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By the way, thank you Luc0s for trying to explain things as they really are- I don' t have the patience for that anymore.

the_one_54321 wrote...

One could easily argue that these are all actually serious problems that are deeply interrelated.


Of course it's all one big friggin problem- for M$ shareholders.  :P

Modifié par Dahn-Var Starcloak, 19 mars 2010 - 09:44 .

#66
the_one_54321
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 09:47

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Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...
By the way, thank you Luc0s for trying to explain things as they really are- I don' t have the patience for that anymore.

the_one_54321 wrote...
One could easily argue that these are all actually serious problems that are deeply interrelated.

Of course it's all one big friggin problem- for M$ shareholders.  :P

You see what your mac did there? =] (BAH fixed it before I could get my joke off, you cheater)

But seriously. You can't build a mac. All the hardware comes integrated and thus it runs more efficiently. This also means that the machine is stagnant. It's like a console: you buy a new one when the old one isn't good enough any more. You can't upgrade, you can't choose your components, you can't build it to order, you can't build it at all only pick from a list.

True, that because you can't combine parts you see less problems with firmware incompatability or bugs, but that's a result of you not being able to build your own machine.

And, since you can't buy the hardware and put it together yourself, whenever you buy a mac, you pay the store price for the whole machine. Hence the higher price tags.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 19 mars 2010 - 09:48 .

#67
Dahn-Var Starcloak
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:11

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the_one_54321 wrote...
You see what your mac did there? =] (BAH fixed it before I could get my joke off, you cheater)


Actually, I'm writing this on PC...

But seriously. You can't build a mac.


Not from scratch, no. That's why I'll continue to be a PC user- too much fun with assembling and mixing various components. :D  [and it's cheap - wheee!]

All the hardware comes integrated and thus it runs more efficiently. This also means that the machine is stagnant. It's like a console: you buy a new one when the old one isn't good enough any more. You can't upgrade, you can't choose your components, you can't build it to order, you can't build it at all only pick from a list.


My my, you've done your homework. ;)

True, that because you can't combine parts you see less problems with firmware incompatability or bugs, but that's a result of you not being able to build your own machine.


I'm inclined to agree with this but there's a little more to it than that. But like I said before- only engineers who are involved in the design would know for sure.

And, since you can't buy the hardware and put it together yourself, whenever you buy a mac, you pay the store price for the whole machine. Hence the higher price tags.


You pay for the machine that doesn't *need* upgrading for at least three years. And with it, you can actually focus on the problems that need solving. That's what computers are for in the first place- solving problems, not combating malware every step of the way. If that means 'closed' architecture, then so be it. Just my pow.

Modifié par Dahn-Var Starcloak, 19 mars 2010 - 10:17 .

#68
Godak
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:14

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Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...

You pay for the machine that doesn't *need* upgrading for at least three years.


No, it still needs the upgrades. You just can't upgrade it.

#69
the_one_54321
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:16

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Well first, stop breaking the quote button. :P

Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...
You pay for the machine that doesn't *need* upgrading for at least three years.

Second, what? You can keep a PC for 3 years just as easily as a mac. And I doubt they age very differently in terms of advancing tech.

Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...
And with it, you can actually focus on the problems that need solving. That's what computers are for in the first place- solving problems, not combating malware every step of the way. If that means 'closed' architecture, then so be it. Just my pow.

My POV is that why bother spending extra money unless the tool you spend it on can actually do something a cheaper tool can't. Sometimes that is the case for a mac. For most people, it really isn't.

#70
Noilly Prat
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:21

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For my part, I can't see any reason I would want to upgrade a computer's hardware every year but for gaming purposes, which is generally a fairly moot point on a Mac, so...



Still, it depends on what you want to use your computer for. I wouldn't mind being able to play a few more PC-only games here and there, but I can't say I would love having to deal with upgrading video and sound cards and all the rest. I know most probably don't consider it a big deal, but I'm just lazy and more or less indifferent about computer hardware.

#71
Statulos
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:23

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Noilly, upgrading a sound card is pretty much useless if you do not get a set of propper speakers.

#72
Dahn-Var Starcloak
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:27

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Wait- did I just say prisoner of war? Oops...

Godak
wrote...

No, it still needs the upgrades. You just can't
upgrade it.


If you don't mind me asking- how long have
you been using a mac and what did you use it for?

the_one_54321 wrote...

Second, what? You can keep a PC for 3 years just as easily as a mac. And I doubt they age very differently in terms of advancing tech.


Not sure what you mean there but by my experience software generally runs smoother on older macs than on older pcs. Comparative hardware of course.

My POV is that why bother spending extra money unless the tool you spend it on can actually do something a cheaper tool can't. Sometimes that is the case for a mac. For most people, it really isn't.


And I fully acknowledge that.

#73
Gabtinha
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:41

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Mac all the way

#74
Godak
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:41

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Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...

Wait- did I just say prisoner of war? Oops...

Godak
wrote...

No, it still needs the upgrades. You just can't
upgrade it.


If you don't mind me asking- how long have
you been using a mac and what did you use it for?


I've been using Macs in my TV Production class for two years. We needed new software, and we needed new Macs. Image IPB

#75
Noilly Prat
Posté 19 mars 2010 - 10:48

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Statulos wrote...

Noilly, upgrading a sound card is pretty much useless if you do not get a set of propper speakers.


I don't doubt that.  Getting the better speakers would obviously take priority over the sound card if I had a gaming PC, but the sound card thing is just a non-issue on my Mac.  I've already got better speakers for it than the ones it came with.
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