130 réponses à ce sujet

[Bratt1204]

Venatio wrote...

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

We were promised 6 new characters on the side of Oghren, whose dumb**** idea was it that someone who dies 30 min in counts? This is the worse thing that Bioware has ever done to their fanbase. If there was anyway to make them pay other than something unreasonable or not buying their games I would do it in a heart beat.

I was wondering if there would be more to your post. 

[Parallax Demon]

By now you expext companies to know what kind of DLC works and what kind doesn't.

Just some examples from my own experience:

Oblivion: Horse armour was a big NO. Shivering Isle was a big YES.

Mass Effect: Pinnacle Station was a big NO. Bring Down the Sky was a small Yes.

Fallout 3: Operation: Anchorage was a No. Broken Steel was a very big YES.

Borderlands: Mad Moxxi's Underdome was a very big NO. The Secret Armory of General Knoxx is probably the best DLC ever.



Point to this is: when making an expansion make sure it really expands the original game. Let gamers play the game as if it is the original play and give them some extras. Don't change just expand.

[cmessaz]

Parallax Demon wrote...

By now you expext companies to know what kind of DLC works and what kind doesn't.
Just some examples from my own experience:
Oblivion: Horse armour was a big NO. Shivering Isle was a big YES.
Mass Effect: Pinnacle Station was a big NO. Bring Down the Sky was a small Yes.
Fallout 3: Operation: Anchorage was a No. Broken Steel was a very big YES.
Borderlands: Mad Moxxi's Underdome was a very big NO. The Secret Armory of General Knoxx is probably the best DLC ever.

Point to this is: when making an expansion make sure it really expands the original game. Let gamers play the game as if it is the original play and give them some extras. Don't change just expand.

Exactly.

[SirOccam]

Zeleen wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Spin****e wrote...

Either that, or they don't release a trailer for her and then everyone knows she's going to die.

Okay, but then I still have to ask...to what end? We get a totally abrupt, arbitrary death with no dramatic impact. So why even have it in at all? Just to say you really pulled one over on your fans? Why not at least have it happen later, so we can get to know her, and maybe even start to care a little?

Hey! we spent time with Daveth and Jory - they both died....  didn't hear any crying over them...  what's up?  Me thinks you protest too much..

You say that as though you disagree with me. But we're saying the exact same thing.

No one flipped out on the forums about Daveth and Jory because they were not told these two would be companions. The human beings playing the game didn't have any expectations, so all we had was what we saw in the game. As you say, we spent time with them. Not a lot, but enough. We learned about their pasts and personalities. When they died, it had an impact. For a brief, absurd moment, I wondered if my character could die too (then the obviousness of reality kicked in). It definitely had an effect IN THE GAME. Mission accomplished.

Now compare that to Awakening, where there's all this pre-game hype about the companions we'd be getting. Mhairi being one of them. As I said in my first post, I tried to avoid spoilers, but I did see the name, and I knew a trailer had been released, as with the other companions. When I started playing the game, I was wondering who this person was walking with me. Eventually I get her name, and I'm thinking "ah, so this is Mhairi." Then she died. I had 0 reaction to it as far as in the game...my thoughts were 100% out of character. I had no reaction to it IN THE GAME because I knew next to nothing about her. The only thing I did know was that she was supposed to be one of my companions. I thought I messed up somewhere. Mission most definitely not accomplished.

When Jory and Daveth died, it was not arbitrary. It did not seem random or jarring or make me wonder about Bioware and the voiceover business. Instead, I was wondering about darkspawn and the ritual. I was still in the game, mentally. And I'm sure a lot of it was due to the fact that they didn't hype them beforehand and make us think they were going to be a major part of the game. I don't think it'll be nearly as big a deal to people who truly avoided all spoilers, and didn't even hear the name. But to the rest, even for people like me who only heard the name, it was definitely a "WTF?" moment.

[ejoslin]

Jory and Daveth, I spoke to them. My warden got to know them. We saw how they reacted to different situations, with fear, with bravery, with bravado. You got to learn about their pasts -- both had actually good backstories. When they died, I wasn't sad about them dying so much as shocked. They weren't there long enough to get an attachment, but there was enough to them that you saw them as real people, not just RandomWardenRecruit.

Edit: In truth, I felt more of an attachment to Jory and Daveth (liked Daveth, found Jory annoying) than I do to any of the awakening characters.  *sigh*

Modifié par ejoslin, 17 mars 2010 - 11:40 .

[RPGmom28]

Non-interaction between party members and the main character is the difference between having a conversation with a friend and being in the same room as a friend when they talk to themselves. You can't really get a feel for what's going on or help that friend with their problems- and a friend that would talk out loud without ever listening to you or interacting with you would not remain a friend long. It comes down to this- we created a character in this fantasy world and invested a lot of time and effort in getting that character's personal story just the way we wanted it. And we don't get to be included! We're just along for the ride. We are bystanders. And we're not special. Our story isn't special. We could be anyone. Our party members don't know us, nor do they care to know us. They just want to talk to themselves and get presents sometimes.

[SirOccam]

ejoslin wrote...

Jory and Daveth, I spoke to them. My warden got to know them. We saw how they reacted to different situations, with fear, with bravery, with bravado. You got to learn about their pasts -- both had actually good backstories. When they died, I wasn't sad about them dying so much as shocked. They weren't there long enough to get an attachment, but there was enough to them that you saw them as real people, not just RandomWardenRecruit.

Edit: In truth, I felt more of an attachment to Jory and Daveth (liked Daveth, found Jory annoying) than I do to any of the awakening characters.  *sigh*

Agreed. Though I probably don't think I'd go as far as that last sentence. I'm a big fan of Anders so far, at least.

Jory and Daveth were actually pretty interesting people. I thought it notable that the tourney-winning knight from Redcliffe was the one who complained the most and seemed to be the most cowardly, and the lowly cutpurse was the one saying "wouldn't you gladly die to save your wife and child at home?" I was sorry they were gone (well Daveth anyway), but I didn't think Bioware did anything wrong, certainly. On the contrary, they did it exactly right.

RPGmom28 wrote...

Non-interaction between party members and the main character is the difference between having a conversation with a friend and being in the same room as a friend when they talk to themselves. You can't really get a feel for what's going on or help that friend with their problems- and a friend that would talk out loud without ever listening to you or interacting with you would not remain a friend long. It comes down to this- we created a character in this fantasy world and invested a lot of time and effort in getting that character's personal story just the way we wanted it. And we don't get to be included! We're just along for the ride. We are bystanders. And we're not special. Our story isn't special. We could be anyone. Our party members don't know us, nor do they care to know us. They just want to talk to themselves and get presents sometimes.

Good point. I think this is why I liked Wynne so much. She asked a lot of questions about you and your past and what you went through, and comforted you if you revealed worries about living as a Grey Warden or being a leader. I think Leliana and Alistair each might ask you one thing about yourself, and that's it. I don't think anyone else bothers even once.

Modifié par SirOccam, 17 mars 2010 - 11:57 .

[ejoslin]

Don't get me wrong. I LIKE Anders. He's very likable. But I feel zero bonding with him or any of the characters. Ah well.

[MacAttack001]

Well I =finished= playing all the way through Awakenings. 

There are certain aspects that I liked about it and others that just chapped my ****.


What I liked...
I liked getting the chance to have Oghren backin me up is fun. A number of a the settings were visually interesting and even noteworthy in terms of contributing to the story. Getting to advance my origins character, the new skills and talents were interesting and even fun to use. Crafting runes was a very cool IDEA. There seemed to be a much better economic balance to this one.


What I did not like...
Execution of the rune crafting vexed me...logistically speaking...the elven woman with the materials in a room where only the main character has access to their radial menu was a bad idea.

It (the whole story) seemed really...really...really...really...short (considering the price tag).

The ending...the new definition of anti-climax.

I was given the distinct impression that the story line was finished with this add-on...

[Bratt1204]

MacAttack001 wrote...

Well I =finished= playing all the way through Awakenings. 

There are certain aspects that I liked about it and others that just chapped my ****.


What I liked...
I liked getting the chance to have Oghren backin me up is fun. A number of a the settings were visually interesting and even noteworthy in terms of contributing to the story. Getting to advance my origins character, the new skills and talents were interesting and even fun to use. Crafting runes was a very cool IDEA. There seemed to be a much better economic balance to this one.


What I did not like...
Execution of the rune crafting vexed me...logistically speaking...the elven woman with the materials in a room where only the main character has access to their radial menu was a bad idea.

It (the whole story) seemed really...really...really...really...short (considering the price tag).

The ending...the new definition of anti-climax.

I was given the distinct impression that the story line was finished with this add-on...

I'm certain that you're correct. I don't expect see anyone from DA:O in a sequel; very depressing indeed 

[kingthrall]

IF YOU FELT RIPPED OFF, I SUGGEST YOU PREVIEW THE LINK I SENT YOU ITS IMPORTANT.

[Spinnazie]

I feel like this could of been amazing full game, rather then a small expansion pack.



IMO EA pushed them to get this out. The game just feels rushed. (I still enjoyed it for what it is, and it shows how good Bioware is when the product was clearly rushed.)

[Stabbath123]

The companion I liked most, croaked. Bummer. Just found out about the no romance thing. Not sure why they'd do that. Foot meet own bullet.



Game has been fun and better than nothing though. Seems designed more for a new character than a previous one so far however.

[Stabbath123]

Lol. Yes Anders reminds me of Alistar constantly too lol. And Nat's spec is just the same as Lel. I much rather have Lel:(



And where's my Morrigan ring? I swore I'd find her....

[Dotski11]

It seems like whoever played tested this game had never played DAO before or BioWare was in too big a hurry to get something out on the markeet .

[Addai]

Stabbath123 wrote...
And Nat's spec is just the same as Lel. I much rather have Lel:(

Uh, what?  Nathaniel is a dex/str rogue and would run rings around the Orlesian tart.  My PC is a cunning-based rogue and he gives me damage envy with that bow of his.

[BeastMTL]

Awakenings felt rushed and a bit disjointed to me. Hated that I couldn't talk to my companions except by clicking on trees / casks / gifts. Made conversations feel forced and not natural. A few landmarks on top of the regular style in DAO would have been perfect.



Oghren: I had him at 100 loyalty in the original game.. Did the entire world reset ? He comes back at neutral (0). So why did I bother with him in Origins at all ?



Cameos: Alistair/Wynne. Alistair was at 96 at the end of Origins and the conversation options are all very cold (ok ok he's the king, maybe formality requires, but he was also a good friend). And wasn't Wynne going with Shale to Tevinter ? Did finding a cure for Shale take only 6 months ?

Dog was imprinted on me.. Not even a peep why he's not there. Same for Zev. A little nod would have helped maintain the integrity of the story.



New characters: Liked Sigrun, but never managed to care much for the characters.. Expansion was too short to get attached.



Areas were top notch in design and look.Just not a lot of them. (MOAR!)



Overall: 2nd bad pack for DAO. Abstaining from any more before they totally ruin it.

[kingthrall]

i recon, that there were 2 different bioware teams, one for the main game and the other for the expansion, as stated it was made beforehand. It seems to me the expansion team got real bitter that they were not a part of the main game so they didnt put nearly enough effort as required. Only enough to make it passable by bioware standards. This is just a assumption but i get this gut feeling its true, since Chris Presley even states it getting made in october last year.



Just a thaught, you should try responding to

[galesong1234]

kingthrall wrote...



IF YOU FELT RIPPED OFF, I SUGGEST YOU PREVIEW THE LINK I SENT YOU ITS IMPORTANT.

What does this link have to do with DAO Awakenings?  I got something about  Doctor/Patient relations when I watched it.

[Bratt1204]

galesong1234 wrote...

kingthrall wrote...



IF YOU FELT RIPPED OFF, I SUGGEST YOU PREVIEW THE LINK I SENT YOU ITS IMPORTANT.

What does this link have to do with DAO Awakenings?  I got something about  Doctor/Patient relations when I watched it.

I had the same question, I don't get it? 

[Kohaku]

Bratt1204 wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

kingthrall wrote...



IF YOU FELT RIPPED OFF, I SUGGEST YOU PREVIEW THE LINK I SENT YOU ITS IMPORTANT.

What does this link have to do with DAO Awakenings?  I got something about  Doctor/Patient relations when I watched it.

I had the same question, I don't get it? 

Well that was bizzare. There must be some hidden meaning we don't get.

[MacAttack001]

I hate to say it...but overall if they would have originally stolen/borrowed the basic premise of Oblivion:The Elder Scrolls...DAO would have been mind blowing in every aspect. As it is...unlike Oblivion...this has a very real shelf life to it.

A shame really...because the voice talent and dialog was awesome for DAO.

[Bratt1204]

kingthrall wrote...

i recon, that there were 2 different bioware teams, one for the main game and the other for the expansion, as stated it was made beforehand. It seems to me the expansion team got real bitter that they were not a part of the main game so they didnt put nearly enough effort as required. Only enough to make it passable by bioware standards. This is just a assumption but i get this gut feeling its true, since Chris Presley even states it getting made in october last year.

Just a thaught, you should try responding to

These people need to get over themselves  - in a big way. I'll show you, I'll put our a substandard product just because "I" was not allowed to work on the main game *sulks like child*. Yet, I'm reading posts from writers and devs stating that 'we don't make games to order', really? What a pompous (and expected) response. Really, 'we don't make games to order'? How patronizing. Even though we are the people actually paying for these games but we should not expect to get what we desire from a game we are purchasing?  We should simply buy the games and keep quite if they do live up to our expectations, I suppose? Yes, perhaps taking the approach of 'making games that we want not what our customers want' will fare well for future sales; what a cleaver business strategy. 

[Whitering]

For the record, I really love Bioware games (especially, ahem, Jade Empire), so I want this expansion and I will likely pick it up this afternoon. Playing Mass Effect 2 likely prepared me for the experience of playing this expansion. In Mass Effect 2, you get 2 companions back, Tali and Garrus. They are both good characters so that's cool. The interaction with other former teammates is muted at best, only the interaction with Wrex holds to any truth from Mass Effect 1.



I guess we just have to come to terms with the reality that, like an episodic TV show, these game franchises will write the scripts based on what they think will make the best story for the episode they are working on. Mass Effect 2 had a great deal of continuity built in (thank you Bioware), so decisions we made in 1 had an impact in 2, even if it was just an email. It was nice.



I am not thrilled with what I hear about Awakening, but the game play should be good, the story, taken on its own should be great. I will miss the bonds I forged in DAO, but will try to enjoy the brief interactions I have with new characters in the expansion anyway. Maybe I will not play my warden since it sounds as though the expansion is not especially tailored to an existing character.