635 réponses à ce sujet

[Gr8rgamer]

YohkoOhno wrote...

WOW poor wittow baby got its feelings huart, awwwww...... definitely a Customer Service for DUMMY's is in order! In other words David was interested as long as people were kissing his butt!

He just said he WAS NOT in customer service. Clearly you have a problem with reading comprehension if you're telling him to read about customer service.

OK if I must I'll spell it out to you, I spent $40 on his ahh er..  "game", that makes me a C-U-S-T-O-M-E-R!  No matter how far he trys to hide from it! 


Also, Morrigan may have been faking it but she was hot, well with the exeption of their middle age's dental program

Modifié par Gr8rgamer, 21 mars 2010 - 09:23 .

[Gr8rgamer]

Also Morrigan is HOT! With a silence spell there would be real possibilities


Yep Lilliana was did jabber a bit on, but compared with having to mouse over every little thing I'll even be wiling to take Lillianna back.  However if she were to get replaced well I could so live with it!

Modifié par Gr8rgamer, 21 mars 2010 - 09:12 .

[Gr8rgamer]

Ok so i was mousing over everythhing anyway, hmmmm.... It's the holding the that other key while I'm do it (yes please dump this, ur good at dumping stuff)... Nope its just plain that they dumped a system I liked, yep thats it

Modifié par Gr8rgamer, 21 mars 2010 - 09:28 .

[Gr8rgamer]

For a similar game done much better also no romance (ya thank god for the most part in its case) I would recommend the Gothic 1-3 series

Modifié par Gr8rgamer, 21 mars 2010 - 09:31 .

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Dude, one word: troll

[Nassegris]

I really liked being able to pick up on a talk whenever I felt like it, rather than running around the world looking for possible triggers. The trigger-thing could be fun in combination with a normal dialogue system, but really, the talks were what set Origins apart from every other RPG I’ve played. I really got to know, and care, for my companion characters. Poking at Oghren’s beer barrel for the sixth time, I’m now thinking how utterly annoying my character must seem, and that she’d really rather prefer to let him drink alone and talk to him later – alas, I’m not really given that opportunity.



I wouldn’t say I hate the new dialogue system but it feels like it belongs to a far shallower game with far less interesting characters than in Origins.



I can’t see myself having got to know Alistair by maybe poking at trees or stones that might remind him of something or other and I certainly can’t see how I would ever got to know Zevran truly well through this system – I don’t want to think about the things I would have had to point and poke at (shudder).



Ugh. A combination of the two might work. I feel completely detached from the Awakening characters. I couldn’t care less if they lived or died. I would have burst a liver if any of my Origins companions had perished.

[kingthrall]

I think one of the real things that is missing from Dragon age is the fact you can not persuade enough npc members what you belive through either Persuation or Intimidation, or even other Atributes like Dexterity gambling with someone or Willpower if someone tries to force you to drink some mysterious liquid.

I mean throughout the entire of the Origins story, It seemed like I had to agree with everything a npc said to me just to make them happy, and only when it came to conflciting romance or a major character being killed that was accociated closley with that npc did you use it. Which adds up to about 10 times.

Modifié par kingthrall, 21 mars 2010 - 10:04 .

[Layn]

Nassegris wrote...

I wouldn’t say I hate the new dialogue system but it feels like it belongs to a far shallower game with far less interesting characters than in Origins.

you could point at a lamppost in winter

it just makes sense that when you are somewhere safe you'd chat with the people you have to travel with.
And after (for example) defeating Branka i'd actually expect that Oghren WOULDN'T have anything to say on it. It just happened, let the poor dwarf process it first.

[LaughingDragon]

Listen to these bioware guys.



They are sitting here dissing the click on your companion dialogue system. It's worked since diablo 1 and beyond, and has been in some of the greatest games ever made. It works amazingly well.



If you guys can't afford to pay your writers why don't you try outsourcing some of the writing? There are thousands of talented writers who would gladly write content for your company for FREE for a chance to get some experience and a writing credit or just for fun.



I seriously read some bioware guy say writing is expensive. lol.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

It is because they get payed to write something that is relevant and certain things can't be implemented because of voice actor costs or limited resources in other areas. People like to be payed, its their job to write and they are great writers and you really have no idea how much they toil through just to bring out a game for you. If you don't like BW then stop complaining and log off because the writers don't want to here s*** from you and everyone else who is complaining.

Modifié par Lady light doorbell, 21 mars 2010 - 11:42 .

[Hirdas]

I miss the interaction at camp, though the new way has some fun things too, i miss the bonding, you had at camp. At least that is how i saw it.

[Lethias]

Change one of the best part of the game because it's expensive isn't the right thing to do i think, of course i can't see inside the company therefore question their motivation or anything. But conversations in the original game added a big plus to it, and many many people bought DAO so i can't rly imagine it wasn't worth the cost .

Modifié par Lethias, 21 mars 2010 - 11:47 .

[Shenordak]

I for one think that the new system might indeed be a step forward, but it has one obvious drawback that makes it even less realistic than the old one. Let me explain:



If I understand correctly deep conversation is now initiated by having your companions tag along and comment on things. This is all very nice, and seems both more realistic and organic than the old conversation trees (although I wouldn't mind being able to get a little exposition back in camp as well). The problem is that you only get to know the characters you travel with, and that choice is not really made because of "I like Oghren, he comlpiments my skills" but because of "I can only bring along three of you because thats the law". You are the leader of a group of heroes and adventurers, but most of them sit around in camp do nothing while "the great four" run around doing quests. I might like Leliana, but can't have her tag along because I need a mage.



I've always hated this in RPG:s (BG, Kotor, Mass Effect etc., come to think about it the only games that doesn't seem to suffer from this are Torment and the Witcher) because it is just so artificial. There is just no reason for a party to act this way.



Please Bioware, if you are going through with your new realistic conversation system you have to have games set up so that you can bring every companion along at the same time. Frankly, I don't see it working any other way.

[YohkoOhno]

If you guys can't afford to pay your writers why don't you try outsourcing some of the writing? There are thousands of talented writers who would gladly write content for your company for FREE for a chance to get some experience and a writing credit or just for fun

This is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this board.

Why do people think writing is "easy", or that people should just do things for free because they enjoy them. A "writing credit" doesn't pay the bills. Would you suggest somebody should not get paid for debugging or writing documentation or qa testing because "it's fun"? Should I find somebody willing to do mowing your lawn for free because "it's fun, it's great exercise and you get fresh air". No.

People think creative arts are "reward in themselves", but people need to be paid. Just because something is "fun" to do doesn't mean it is not work and you should be compensated for that work. You should never demean the art and the hard work it takes to actually make a well thought out story by suggesting they write "for free" or outsource. (In fact, one of the hard things about outsourcing is that it is ill-suited for writing because there's a translation issue).

The same goes for voice acting, music composition, and art design. You should never suggest they cheaply outsource it. It makes no sense.



Now, as far as the "expense" goes, I don't think David Gaider was just talking about financial expense. There are other "expenses" involved. The key one is time. Let's ignore the voice acting costs. The more dialog you add the more coding, qa, and debugging must be done. The more branches you add the more "expensive" it gets to handle. You also need to handle so many things like who's in the party, adding asides and interjections from the third party companions (and needing to take this into account if you add DLC with additional characters like Shale). All that takes a lot to manage.

And like it or not, they have to manage schedules and expectations. I have a feeling all core Dragon Age games have an 18-month deliverable date. You can complain about the so-called "evil EA" a lot, but they can't afford to have no games released for 3-5 years.

Please Bioware, if you are going through with your new realistic conversation system you have to have games set up so that you can bring every companion along at the same time. Frankly, I don't see it working any other way.

David Gaider did suggest they might consider reducing the amount of companions you have. They have statistical information for instance from DA and ME on which companions are the most popular. Maybe instead of quantity we should have quality. The whole reason for multiple companions is to have various world-views and personalities, and I think to allow some personalities to be better for moral and dark character types. Either that or set things up where the companies don't accompany the entire missions and we have "acts" where you work with them for a time and then they leave.

The key thing is the craft of computer gaming is still maturing, and we should expect more experimentation and changes as we learn the best techniques. I have enough faith that they can create a compelling game while still experimenting with the interfaces.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Right on!

[Liso66]

I would not mind less companions to get more interaction to reduce cost. Seriously? I left Oghren, Sten, and a couple others in camp 90% of the time. I'd much rather have quality vs quantity. " ponders" Say 4 or 5 max? There are not enough classes to even justify having more anyway. Or the fact you can only have 3 with you at any given time. If you keep the re-spec books, that gives even less reason to have a pile of companions you never use. Just a thought...

[Mich-cz]

David Gaider wrote...
Excellent example!

The drawback might be viewed as you being unable to go around in camp and chat with every party member, regardless of whether you spend any time adventuring with them. I don't know that this is necessarily a drawback, however, as I think you *should* only be building friendships with the characters in your active party. That and I think a system that doesn't make the player feel like they have to keep "checking in" with a character regularly to see if they have anything new to say is more natural -- saving their interactions for those times when what they have to say is more significant.

There's going to be some people who are going to miss the "laundry list" of questions, because as far as they're concerned any conversation they can have with a character they like is gravy -- it is, let's face it, MOAR! -- but I've always felt that such dialogues are often exposition-filled by necessity, and personally I think a system where a player feels compelled to sit in camp and drain a character of all their dialogue options (in a lengthy process) just to have a "complete" picture of a character isn't ideal.

The approval system itself needs some looking at, but insofar as the dialogues in Awakening go, consider it a work in progress.

But in Awakening you took away the thing that made Origins the great game. Fewer conversations in the camp and more on spot conversations in the field with only active characters may be better way to go but Awakening has no camp conversation at all! Come on, even Mass Effect 2 has that.

Consequences of this are very clear - the story flows better but the characters in Awakening seems to be rather shallow and somehow not memorable compared to those in Origins. Not to mention that romances are missing a lot.

The solution is to completely remove gift system - that way the player choices during conversations with companions would matter a lot more. On field conversation would change approval only to those characters you are taking with you. That way the companions always forgotten in camp would be left with lower approval. Also, it wouldn't be possible to gain max rating shortly after beginning. And second, you can update you camp system talk so that some topics opens up only after reaching certain approval rating (and I still prefer clicking on character rather than triggering conversation on entering the area). Or maybe the better - camp talk topics could depend on situations character was in and global story it revolves around him/her - companion could comment it afterwards and start talking about his/her history, memories, tales and opinions related to those events.

[Witcha]

LaughingDragon wrote...

Listen to these bioware guys.

They are sitting here dissing the click on your companion dialogue system. It's worked since diablo 1 and beyond, and has been in some of the greatest games ever made. It works amazingly well.

To be fair they can't say admit they were wrong after they did it. That would be bad for them in a number of ways. Though I can't say I like how Mr. Gaider seems to be rigid and inflexible in his view and not even considering the preferences of so many players.

[dragon_83]

This new conversation system would be great, if it would exist side by side with the original system. So there are some places, items in the world, which trigger a conversation, but I would be able to chat with my characters anytime.

In this form alone, this system is a step back. What if I miss something in the world? Now I have to keep the Tab key pressed almost all the time, so the triggering places are highlighted. Automatically starting conversations at the trigerring places would make this system better.

Modifié par dragon_83, 21 mars 2010 - 02:51 .

[Layn]

dragon_83 wrote...

In this form alone, this system is a step back. What if I miss something in the world? Now I have to keep the Tab key pressed almost all the time, so the triggering places are highlighted. Automatically starting conversations at the trigerring places would make this system better.

but then other people would complain how annoying it is that companions start talking about their feelings even though they don't care at all. ...

[Karmianna]

Valentia X wrote...

I disagree. Given that the game is fairly limited, you have to hope you pick the right gift or make the correct decisions right off the bat, with little margin for error, in order to get to know your companions. I find it obnoxious and I honestly don't care for any of them anymore; I find myself wishing I had Alistair and Shale back instead of the chumps I'm landed with.

Agree, these companions lack any depth of personality. In origins I cared about some of them and others I didn't like. In awakenings it really doesn't matter, they are all equally shallow empty shells. So you simply pick the ones that are the most useful. With the exception of Oghren, I never pick him unless I had no choice.

[Karmianna]

Elps wrote...

Just to add - I've played DA right through 6 times and will keep playing it. I won't be playing Awakening again in a hurry and the biggest reason for that is the lack of immersion. The conversation system didn't engage me at all and even if I treat Awakening as a standalone game, its just not good enough to bother with. To me, it was the depth of the companions in DAO that made the game so compelling. Improving on that conversation system would be a good move but dropping it for the Awakening system would kill off any interest I have in purchasing more DA releases.

Thank you for saying that so clearly. I have been trying to make that exact point.

[Liso66]

Elps wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

I would not mind less companions to get more interaction to reduce cost. Seriously? I left Oghren, Sten, and a couple others in camp 90% of the time. I'd much rather have quality vs quantity. " ponders" Say 4 or 5 max? There are not enough classes to even justify having more anyway. Or the fact you can only have 3 with you at any given time. If you keep the re-spec books, that gives even less reason to have a pile of companions you never use. Just a thought...

Reducing the companions makes the game play more restrictive. I used different mixes of companions in each play-through. I did the quests in different orders too, just so I could get certain companions at earlier stages of the game. With each new game the only constant was that my parties always included whichever companion I decided to romance. I even had one game where Alistair was left at camp for everything except Redcliffe.

Bioware has always been good at producing games that could be replayed for years. Reducing the companion choices would make DA less interesting from a replay perspective.

This is true, However. In DA:O you had a choice to take on a companion to begin with. "mostly" Aside from Oghren I guess. So hmm..  There must be a way to reduce overly bloated expenses vs quality of the game. They are already looking to make cut backs on what is still a new series.

I don't wish to compare NWN2 to this, as it pales in comparison. However. Mask the of Betrayer was around 30ish hours for $30.00..  The companions were fully VO'd but not merchants, minor quest etc.. There was a romance'ish.. Like all the other nwn games.. They were kind of pointless. However.. There must be some sort of balance..

Having said that. Do we need every merchant and or minor quest to be a major cutscene? I am just sorting ideas though my head. Not that it is our job to figure out BioWares budget issues. However, we are 1000's of players, and someone must have a brilliant idea..  Even if they stopped posting, I am sure there are lurkers.

My thoughts..

No reason for merchant cutscenes. Unless said merchant has a quest?

Minor side quest.. "FedEx" style. We are used to finding clues laying around. No need for all the cutscenes or VO while we are playing scavenger hunt.

I personally never felt having cutscenes and VO for things that really have no baring on the crital path needed. I have no desire to get to know the guy who sells me potions back story, or personality traits. It is not like my pc is going to invite them over for dinner..