635 réponses à ce sujet

[EccentricSage]

David Gaider wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Is it not the place of the people paying money for your game to decide what we want out of it?

"We" meaning the people on this forum? The people who like dialogue? Or all the people who buy our games or might want to in the future?

I didn't realize you were speaking on everyone's behalf. My mistake.

I think some people are getting the wrong impression, that my goal is to strip out your ability to initiate dialogue. That's not the case at all. It's more a matter of when and how. I'm not going to get into an argument about it, however, but I do recognize that some people are always going to look at any change as a net negative. From my perspective I just don't consider the aimless chatting a sacred cow -- especially when there can and has been excellent character development in RPG's that did not need to run in one, set method. It's always good to hear some perspectives, however, though you'll have to recognize that yours (meaning "yours" plural) is not the only one we're going to listen to.

I've gotten to know Addai in the forums a bit, I don't think she meant to offend (She's really sweet!).  Your own statement that she was responding to was off-putting to more than her because it seemed like you were disreguarding the feelings of fans who loved the system in DA:O, and 'we' as in fans who liked Origins dialogue are afraid the next game will end up like awakenings, which still is not a perfect system from all I'm hearing.  It sounded like you were saying 'You fans don't know what you like.  I will tell you what you like.'  XD  Though I kinda figgured that's not how you meant it! lol

I'm really glad you're here telling us what you are trying to acomplish, and trying to hear us out on our ideas and concerns.  A lot of it might seem negative, but look at it as trouble shooting... People want you to know up wront what changes they didn't like and why, what they want more of, and what they are concerned about.  I think it speeks volumes about how atached we fans have already become to what you have created.  It must sound like a whole lot of yelling at times, though, when you spend so much time creating something just to throw it to thronging masses. 

Haha... I wonder if this is what it's like to be god?  You are the Maker of Thedas, after all.  XD

Mmmm... anyhow, I like what you are TRYING to do, and hope to learn more about what you have in store for us and continue to see you engaging us fans.  I really think it's fantastic that you bother instead of hiding behind the curtain and playing Wizard of Oz with us.  I do think people should appreciate that.  We should try not to sound too defensive.  Being an artist, I can only imagine what it's like to be in a possition where you are trying to please fans and have two camps going 'we're right, they're wrong, listen to us!'... I hope it doesn't come to that, here!

Blah.  I ramble at you.  Sorry.... >_>

*edit*

And I have to agree that the 'aimless chatter' comment is distressing to me, too.  It didn't seem aimless to me at all.  We got to know these characters as people through the random storries and chatter, rather than just as their purpose in the game.  Zevran becomes more than an assassin, Alistair becomes more than the King's bastard or a Templar, Morrigan becomes more than a Malificar... You made them each have a role that could have read as two dimensional if their dialogue were limited to dialogue relivent to the plot of the game or a quest.  Zevran's storries about his early missions and Morrigan's chit chat about what it's like to be a shape shifter made them feel human and made me connect with them. 

I also think such chatter lends to realism.  It doesn't matter how important your work is, you are going to need down time where you don't talk shop.  For example, soldiers at war probably get pretty sick of talking about the war after awhile.  I found the off-toppic chatter extremely refreshing, and enjoyed the insight it gave me into character's psyches. 

It's true what we are saying, don't doubt the greatness of what you created.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 17 mars 2010 - 11:09 .

[ejoslin]

And about the complaints -- if DA:O wasn't so fabulous, no one would care enough to complain.

Modifié par ejoslin, 17 mars 2010 - 11:27 .

[Jenocide]

David Gaider wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I do not like the fact that it's the game that imposes where and when I should talk to my companions. 
In addition, the new system doesn't allow me to ask them personal questions. I can't ask Oghren how Felsi is doing, how he feels to be a father and why he joined the Wardens.
I can't ask Howe what he was doing in the Free MArches or what he feels about the Couslands.

I really do not see how the origin system is a problem. It could have been improved, but it didn't need to be removed in this fashion. Truly, if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Just add to it. 

Well, my response to that is: "why do you think you should be able to ask a follower a bunch of personal questions?" Is it because Origins conditioned you to expect those questions? Or because you actually needed them in order to find out more about the character? Baldur's Gate 2 didn't allow you to click on party members for anything -- all dialogue was initiated by them. Not that the BG2 system didn't have its own weaknesses (the random "initiate anywhere" style, for one) but I think the point still holds. Nobody was looking for it, and it wasn't missed -- people still felt very connected to those characters. I'm seeing people wanting some more personal interaction with their party members, but I'm not sure the "list of questions" is needed in order to achieve that.

And it is broken, I'm afraid. Simply because you liked something despite its flaws doesn't mean those flaws don't exist. Adding more and more dialogue is not an option, and establishing the expectation that this is what you should be doing in a game like this (as we're seeing) in order to explore a party member isn't the right way to go -- despite how nice some people might think that is. I get it -- from the perspective of a fan, why not add more? More is always the solution. I'm simply looking for alternate ways to achieve the goal of character development without needing to provide it through exposition and heaps of low-impact dialogue.

I can see your point with the DA:O system though you can ask your party every question in the blue sky it feel sorta unrealistic in my mind. If i was Morrgian i wouldn't be happy about giving my life story 10 mins after i was fouced to leave my home to go on an adventure with a stranger. You have to be able to have moments where the NPC open themselfs this could be done by event triggers with gift giving or entering a new area. Case in point when you first take Morrgian too a major city she could be overwhelmed and this could be used to open a dialogue about her childhood / upbringing in the woods.

This in my mind gives a better sense of realism. Because it builds a more personal connection because the more you play alongside your friends the more they warm up too you and begin to share there lives.

[EccentricSage]

WTF... Sorry... meant to post in a different window and posted here!  Deleted it imedietly!  *head desk*  Disreguard this post.


Oh, Jenocyde, I love that idea.  Only thing woulod be that privacy would also be nice for when a character is opening up the the Warden, in some instances.  Though I love the idea of there also being instances where other party members are involved in the convo.  *__*

Modifié par EccentricSage, 18 mars 2010 - 12:22 .

[Lethias]

I think the conversation system in Awakening is a step back from the original game, but it's just an expansion and it was ok in it, but to use this in DAO 2 or further games? I think it was less dialoge, less options, less chance to learn about your party members... If someone don't want to talk with them in the normal games then just don't, but many people likes it so why take it away anyway... I tought conversations was a really nice part in the original game, so i was a little disapointed with this part of the expansion but well they made it quite fast.

[TheMadCat]

I can see your point with the DA:O system though you can ask your party every question in the blue sky it feel sorta unrealistic in my mind. If i was Morrgian i wouldn't be happy about giving my life story 10 mins after i was fouced to leave my home to go on an adventure with a stranger. You have to be able to have moments where the NPC open themselfs this could be done by event triggers with gift giving or entering a new area. Case in point when you first take Morrgian too a major city she could be overwhelmed and this could be used to open a dialogue about her childhood / upbringing in the woods.

That was the biggest problem I had with the DA:O system, tying almost all new dialogue to the approval ranking was a bad direction to go given how easy it is to get max approval. You can literally have the characters confessing their love and admiration for you and your deeds before your adventure really even gets started and they'd be out of stuff to say before the games even half over if you didn't pace yourself. That and as David said, people constantly checking to see if there was new dialogue and 99% of the time there wasn't, were the two major flaws and I would have rather seen an attempt to correct those in the original system before seeking a more drastic measure such as an overhaul.

[errant_knight]

A lot of the time when I went to the companions for conversation in camp, I knew there's be no new dialogue, or that it wouldn't have great consequence. That wasn't why I was there. Conversation isn't only about NPC character development and furthering the plot. Sometimes, it's about PC character development. After a difficult event, what does one do? They find someone they care about to talk to. Or someone who can give them a laugh. Or a kiss. It's not about how important the conversation is, it's about sharing a moment with a character who make things seem better for the PC. It's about them not feeling alone. The PC really has to be able to talk to people when they need to. I think that's a big part of why I felt like the companions in Origins had more life than any I've encountered in a video game before.

[bluebullets]

Default137 wrote...

abadomen wrote...

Why couldn't you ignore people in the camp? I rarely talked to the characters I disliked...only talked to those I liked.

It was a choice..added to the roleplaying aspect...I haven't played Awakening yet...but that sounds like something I may dislike.

From what I'm hearing sounds more like Mass Effect 2...

Well, the way its set up now is like this.

Basically, before you had to go to them in the camp, and go through the correct dialogue options to learn about "x", then you had to tell them how you feel about "x" and then after that, they get a boost, the problem is, after awhile you just gather so much "x" you have to talk to, and often its stuff that has NO connection to the game whatsoever, and is only mildly touching on things.

In Awakening, when you walk around with lets say Anders, he'll notice things, and suddenly say something about them, and you can turn to him and ask him how he feels about these things, its basically the same principle, but it actually makes the world feel more, well, real, hearing about it from another person while at a place like that, and seeing how they view such things, you still get the conversations, they are just split up a bit more, and allow a deeper understanding really.

A minor first example, I left my keep with Anders, and he noticed the statue to Andraste in my courtyard, and said a little bit about how he feels about Andraste, and the Chantry, and I was able to talk to him about it, and learn much more about the Chantry then I ever did from Morrigan and Wynne, however at the same time it was really fun, it didn't feel like he was reading it out of a book, I could feel how he felt about the Chantry, and it was just so much more interesting to see things from that angle.

LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He did not say anything until by luck, I happened to see the green circle when i got very close to the statue, and activated the scene

Modifié par bluebullets, 18 mars 2010 - 01:03 .

[bluebullets]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

wwwwwasd wrote...

i think the point is they dont want you "checking in" on companions to see if they have new stuff to say. they just want it to happen candidly while you're exploring or something, so it never feels like a chore to get to know your companions better.

Because it was so difficult before? Because it was boring?
This is an RPG, not an action game. To try to make it less of what it's supposed to be to accomodate the casuals, is going nowhere, they will always take God of War over any action-rpg hybrid.
I hate most of those mutt hybrid games. Just stick to your comparative advantage and specialise in what you do best.

The camp was one of my favorite places in Origins and no I am not exagerrating. Plus, this new system can't possibly accomodate romances in future games. The only way I could talk to my romance is if she was interested in a statue? Really? 
Yes, I have always wanted Morrigan to comment about a statue of Andraste. But to deny me the capability to talk to her at camp whenver I feel like it, sometimes just for a kiss, is bad.
 
The interaction with objects is fine and is a good idea. And it can be merged with casual camp talk. If one wants to learn more about a character, he could talk to him / her at camp and see what he / she has to say about certain objects.

I agree completely

[Baconmonster723]

I will say this. I love the fact that you can't just talk to someone in camp and raise approval. That is fantastic in my eyes. But, I do wish I could still talk to them to learn more about them and more about their life still. Just not have it go towards approval. Just because it adds more depth to each of the characters without making it too easy to raise approval. *cough Sten cough*

[AndreaDraco]

Now that I have played the expansion for almost five hours, I'd like to share my views on the new dialogue system.

I like it. I find it very cohesive and consistent, informative without being expository, deep without being verbose. The characters are still very well fleshed out and I almost instantly connected with them. Furthermore, many objects eliciting a dialogue are fascinating per se, and this is an added value.

However - yes, there is an however - I sincerely think that this system can't work well, at least as it is, when it comes to romances. Romances need a more active involvement from the player and the player should be able to know his or her romanceable companions more profoundly, lest the romances feel a little detached. Admittedly, romance usually involve a lot more of attachment on part of the player, and this attachment should be represented in-game by more considerable dialogue options.

I'd like to throw in a suggestion for a future expansion or a sequel.

In Origins, every romanceable character had a dialogue option like "I want to discuss something private", leading to sentimental or openly sexual options. If the dialogue will still be handled via this 'points of interest' system, maybe the player should be able to initiate camp conversations, with the possible love interests, centered about these private matters, leading not only to sexual options and/or sentimental expressions but also to options that allow the player to know his/her love interested in more a deeper way.

[errant_knight]

bluebullets wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

wwwwwasd wrote...

i think the point is they dont want you "checking in" on companions to see if they have new stuff to say. they just want it to happen candidly while you're exploring or something, so it never feels like a chore to get to know your companions better.

Because it was so difficult before? Because it was boring?
This is an RPG, not an action game. To try to make it less of what it's supposed to be to accomodate the casuals, is going nowhere, they will always take God of War over any action-rpg hybrid.
I hate most of those mutt hybrid games. Just stick to your comparative advantage and specialise in what you do best.

The camp was one of my favorite places in Origins and no I am not exagerrating. Plus, this new system can't possibly accomodate romances in future games. The only way I could talk to my romance is if she was interested in a statue? Really? 
Yes, I have always wanted Morrigan to comment about a statue of Andraste. But to deny me the capability to talk to her at camp whenver I feel like it, sometimes just for a kiss, is bad.
 
The interaction with objects is fine and is a good idea. And it can be merged with casual camp talk. If one wants to learn more about a character, he could talk to him / her at camp and see what he / she has to say about certain objects.

I agree completely

Yep, I spent a ton of time in camp that wasn't really necessary, just trying different things while talking to the characters to see what happened. I really didn't see any of the conversation as aimless or unrelated. It told us about our companions, allowing us to anticipate their behavior (heh, badly in some cases. In any case, it felt like what one should do in trying to form a cohesive group and keep moral up. And talking to Alistair was just fun, so I did it as much as possible.

[-Mythosaeon-]

A great way to add those 'getting to know you' dialogs would be to have them come up as walking conversations on the way back and forth between world locations. It wouldn't matter whether that character is in your 'chosen' party or not - I've always assumed the whole group was traveling togather as they all show up in camp no matter where you are. Many could be timed to only come up shortly after a certain trigger location, event, or object was seen by the player similar to the conversation trigger item system being used in Awakenings. That would resolve the issues of players trying to force all the conversations at once and the issue of feeling you need to pester them frequently to not miss when conversations are available.



For those that could care less about the personal conversations and just want to speed through, those conversations could be tied to an On/Off toggle in the options window so they don't pop up as events while traveling.

[bluebullets]

Okay, I have read through this thread, and it seems to me that more people would rather a game with random discussion than some world interaction.



Sure, I understand Gaider's perspective of not wanting people to have to check back all the time in case there has been a new option open up, but copletely removing the ability to initiate conversation is not the solution, and this completely removes the oppertunity for romances and impairs the ability to feel as though you ARE the Warden and become emotionally attached to your companions.



I know that this is not the best idea, but have you contemplated doing what you did in Awakening with the arrow? (show an arrow over a companion if there is a new conversation option)... This will solve the prbolem of continously going back to see if theres a new option.. Of course a better option would be text or them saying "Hey Warden, got a minute?"



Gaider, I do not think you realize how much this impacts the gaming experience.. I feel like a gamer, and not the commander of the grey wardens. This is what made Origins so great! i felt as though I was the warden, and I actually felt attached to the characters with high approval, and I felt negitively toewards those who hated me.. I do not feel like that with Awakening, I just feel like a guy with an xbox 360.



This affects the playability and inpact of the game massively.



What makes Bioware games great is the great characters and how you get to interact with them and kind of become friends with them.. That adds to the gaing experience, because what affects your companions emotionally affects you in some way. Also, the way it sucks you in, and makes you feel as though you are who you are controlling.

DA:A does not do this.

[EldritchGent]

Going to say that I'm enjoying Awakening as an expansion pack. It does have some odd bits in it - side quests that do not feel fleshed out enough. There's more quests here than in DA:O that are easily seen as "I r want more xps, kthx" rather than "Ah, yes, this is something my character would do!". I understand it's an xpac... but how about fewer quests with more meat on their bones. I abhor the 'bring me 10 o' these" step and fetches. It's hard to escape step and fetch in RPGs, but you really lose immersion when you're counting out those kills to get the last bit of bark.

On topic, I did not care for the dialogue system beyond the expansion's utilization; which is to say, it felt like a budgeted move, and it paid out nicely for a small adventure. I enjoyed it as a tool for immersion out in the world, but this talk of it as a replacement is frightening. I found myself clicking on people in the hall to attempt to FORCE conversation. Darkspawn or giant trees or angry bandits running around, and we're stopping to discuss a statue... well, all right, it does tell me about the character. But to be honest, I'm the Commander of the Grey now, and if I say "chat me up, X", they had damn well better. For an xpac, it's awesome and fine, gets the job done. For a new system you're considering? I would prefer the DA:O system perhaps with better pacing limits.

Also, the approval system this time around felt very forced. Ol Og, who gave me a very moving speech at the end of DA:O was incredibly... touchy... this time around. Like kid gloves touchy. Perhaps with more conversation I could figure out why, or more direct question/answer time. For the most part, Og's conversations were a reload to try to figure out WHY I got negatives, when I treated him the same way as before... I felt this was most well represented in the apothecary conversation. Without spoiling anything, I was dumbfounded how the approve/disapprove results worked out, and in the end, Og became far too sensitive for my tastes. It matters quite a bit, the limited conversations hooked to approval points, as my first playthrough felt like the Quest for Og's Whiskey So He Will Still Like Me.

Generally happy with the system for an expansion, but will hope you do a combination or return to the original party camp/dialogue on demand system. Quick example of this system retroactive in Dragon Age: Origins: I loved Zev, but unless you gave me a fifth spot, Leliana wasn't coughing up her place on the Four-Man team. I would have been forced to simply take the Antivan out for a casual walk through pre-cleared areas to hit his dialogue points, with Wynne firing up the Haste buff to run faster from point to point... and that's less realistic, to my view, than standing around the fire and chatting, trading stories, and such as we travel across the countryside.

I never assumed the crew I didn't take with me was sitting and awaiting my return. I always just imagined they were bartering for supplies, hunting for game, cleaning armour and equipment, packing for that land-travel without horses... you know, logistical stuff we players can't be bothered with   That the Mabari Warhound wasn't a summonable character to fight loyally at my side (a bit more in-depth but similiar to the Ranger's creatures) meant he had to stay and guard camp more oft than not in DA:O. But still, he was beloved by many, and me, and his absence was evident in the expansion. His interactions, back at camp, were fun and endearing. I don't think we'd had seen much of our Dog with this new system of dialogue-launching. I never felt the characters in DA:O I didn't bring weren't part of the team, I just always wished for a few more spots on the walking-around-roster so they could play more actively.

*edited for spelling*

I DO like Awakening, don't get the wrong idea. It's fun and continues the story of my favourite character - MY character This post is more a sounding off that for an Xpac, it rocked... but for a test-drive of new features in future games and DLC, I'm not enthusiastic with how it currently works and am voicing my concern. Criticsm is difficult to give without seeming over-negative sometimes; really, for a side-adventure it's amazingly good fun and I recommend playing it. The changes to conversation do worry me, however, and I hope to see them added to the "old" system rather than replacing it.

Modifié par EldritchGent, 18 mars 2010 - 03:33 .

[Raiynsong]

ok. back after playing what I'm guessing is about 1/3 of the expansion. I find that the approvals jump way too high too fast. Anders is already at 100! Nathaniel is over 70. I just got the dalish elf tonight and even as prickly as she started out she's already at warm. Oghran is acutally the lowest hehe. I find the characters to be fairly well drawn out (except, sadly for the Dalish elf who I find way too shrill, but of course that's personal taste.)



What I don't think will work in this game is the ME system of Paragon/Renegade. (well, I haven't played ME2, and am only part way through ME so far). While I like that system for ME, what I like about DA:O is that many of the choices you make are MORALLY AMBIGUOUS----just like real life! You try to do what you think is "the right thing" but it's not always clear what that is. I'd rather not have a "cheat" that says "choose this to become a morally better person" DA:O is deep enough that I could actually see using this in a philosophy class.



I agree with many here who have pointed out that while the "while travelling and questing" system is a lot of fun in Awakenings, we want at least SOME private and PLAYER-initiated dialog options as well----PARTICULARLY for romances, which I hope will come back in the next game(In fact, I'm looking for either a ZEVRAN IN AWAKENINGS or ROMANCING NATHANIEL mod for Awakenings, though I DO understand why the writers didn't put romance in this expansion.



I'm sensing a lot of defensiveness on the part of the Bioware folks and I just want to say that we wouldn't be so passionate about expressing our feelings about this if we didn't all love the game so much---those of us on both sides of the question. We aren't as polarized at you think---most of us see lots of goodness in the new system, but we want to retain if possible the goodness of the old system.



As far as useless dialog. The only camp dialogs I found to be WAY TOO LONG were some of Leliana's stories. Putting a flag over the person ( a turn-offable one maybe, for the real roleplayers) might be a very good option for those who don't want to click on everyone all the time).



Also I want to reiterate that as many have stated, we have only 3 party slots (at the BEST of times) and many characters to take around. I've probably played Origins 12 times all the way through and STILL haven't really gotten Oghran through Dalish or Redcliffe, Shale, through very little. I needed the camp dialogs to get a feel for them as part of my team. and yes, they were trading, repairing armor, resting up from bad wounds, etc.



Anyway, to the writers, and esp. DG. please take our comments, both pro and con, as an expression of how much we like the game and want to see it continue to be THE best RPG bar none.

[Mass Fraud]

Jenocide wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

I think some people should put it in perspective. Sure you can chat with your friends when your at the mall or something, but comfortable surroundings like someones house or hangout is more realistic way to get to know someone on a deeper level. You wouldn't 'believe' someone telling you all about their life in the middle of a crowded mall or in Reference to the game a Crowded Marketplace.

It'd be much more believable to have those deep chats with someone in a more quiet and relaxed setting. Thats mostly why I believe perhaps theres a place for both styles. Casual Conversations out in the world, but deeper more meaningful conversations back at your Base. That seems more immersive and realistic to me.

couldn't agree more.

I also agree, combining both systems would be great in the next Dragon Age game (or exspansion).

[MrGOH]

I like the new system, especially because it cuts back on the redundant and repeated conversation options that occur in DA:O and the ME games. You have a conversation with the companion, make your choices and then that topic is complete. The world is dense enough with conversation starters that I feel like I'm getting to know the companions quite well. In fact, I wish DA:O had this feature; to hear Sten's ruminations on the class system in Orzammar, or Morrigan's reaction to the Brecilian forest would have been better than exposition-filled (but nevertheless well written!) dialogues in camp.



But I understand the appeal, to some, of the camp conversation style of DA:O. I do like to ask questions of the companions, especially if my character would want their input into a decision beyond a brief interjection. I think perhaps implementing some sort of conference or palaver segment during certain points of major questlines in which the PC can ask relevant, but perhaps myriad, questions of the companions regarding (again) relevant world building topics and factors that may affect the party's plan. For example, I'd have liked to ask Alistair about the Templars and mages at the beginning of the Mages' Tower segment in DA:O rather than randomly in camp. Then Alistair's stories and reactions could be tied to some sort of in-game event than a random moonlit conversation. Of course, there could always be a companion-initiated romantic conversation by moonlight, should that be required...

[Hulk Hsieh]

I remembered when playing Kotor, if I don't bring someone to her/his specific trigger point, I'll miss his/her side quest. And there's no hint at all that I should bring someone to the trigger point.



The problem of the "environment trigger" is that you need to bring everyone to every place once in case you miss anything just out of bad luck.

[BooPi]

I think Mr. Gaider is being too nice.

He asked for feedback, not whining. There's a difference. Whining equals "Waah I hate it, it's worse, waah." Feedback equals taking a close, measured look at why you like the new system less, and articulating it in a way that helps the developers address the those reasons. Or, looking closely at why you liked the old system more, and articulating that in a way that looks at how those qualities could be preserved. Or, if it's the case, why you like the new system better and the ways to improve its weaknesses or capitalize on its strengths.

If, after you show a good-faith effort to do that, your feedback really isn't constructive and you end up advocating a roll-back, then you've justified yourself. But remember you're one person out of many, and at least be humble about it.

Sheesh, it feels like an undergrad writing workshop in here sometimes.

(For the record, I'm not responding to the person who posted immediately before me, or really any one specific person, just a few somewhat unproductive comments in here. And yes, I do realize that this is the internet.)

Modifié par BooPi, 18 mars 2010 - 04:17 .

[MrGOH]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

I remembered when playing Kotor, if I don't bring someone to her/his specific trigger point, I'll miss his/her side quest. And there's no hint at all that I should bring someone to the trigger point.

The problem of the "environment trigger" is that you need to bring everyone to every place once in case you miss anything just out of bad luck.

I think the in-camp interrupt from Awakening works just fine; I was just suggesting a way to bring in some question and exposition-filled convos at appropriate points, if the player wishes. That is, if you were replying to my suggestion.

[UrsulaCousland]

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying the new system, because I don't have to keep going through companions looking for new chat options endlessly.

[David Gaider]

MrGOH wrote...
But I understand the appeal, to some, of the camp conversation style of DA:O. I do like to ask questions of the companions, especially if my character would want their input into a decision beyond a brief interjection. I think perhaps implementing some sort of conference or palaver segment during certain points of major questlines in which the PC can ask relevant, but perhaps myriad, questions of the companions regarding (again) relevant world building topics and factors that may affect the party's plan. For example, I'd have liked to ask Alistair about the Templars and mages at the beginning of the Mages' Tower segment in DA:O rather than randomly in camp. Then Alistair's stories and reactions could be tied to some sort of in-game event than a random moonlit conversation. Of course, there could always be a companion-initiated romantic conversation by moonlight, should that be required...

That's an interesting idea, though if you were going to ask Alistair about the Templars at the beginning of the Mage Tower segment it would still require you to click on him to see if he had anything relevant to say -- and if he did, would you not be checking every party member at every major location just in case?

Mind you, if Alistair made some comment that amounted to "Huh, I know a lot about Templars" when you entered the area... that might provide a good cue that eliminated the need for for dialogue-trolling, as it were. Though really it's the difference between clicking on an ambient object to start a conversation and clicking on the party member themselves. But it seems that's a real sticking point for some people. I'm not convinced it's a big issue, but it's something to consider.

Another possibility might be spacing out dialogues in-between major plot points. You don't get to ask said character twenty questions right off the bat, no, but maybe after you complete a plot you could click on them in the camp and ask them about the plot point specifically -- and it leads into something related, perhaps at your option. I'd prefer that to exposition on their background (which is to say I'd prefer to reveal character and background while you are talking to them about something else rather than allowing the player to simply say "Tell me all about your background." Despite the fact that some people seem keen on that, I really do think we're the worse for letting them do it.), and if it was restricted to the camp or somewhere neutral (read: with a set stage so the cinematic designers don't tear their hair out) it might not be so bad so long as the expectation was very clear and there were no exceptions. Again, something to consider.

Romances, of course, are another ball of wax completely. But, yes, I knew that.

Modifié par David Gaider, 18 mars 2010 - 04:41 .

[ransompendragon]

okay, I admit I haven't even bought Awakening yet and I haven't read the whole thread but:

David Gaider: For those that are suggesting a "best of both worlds" that would include both the directed dialogues outside of camp as well as being able to click on followers and ask a bunch of questions -- you're missing the point. That would, once again, encourage the player to keep returning to the follower to check to see if they have any new dialogue options available.

I am on my second play through and I have never once felt like I needed to talk to a companion to see what dialogue options where available. My first playthrough I barely interacted with those I "didn't like" - some of whom are key companions now.

In another post - yep, we couldn't click on our BG characters and talk to them but this isn't BG. Even if the NPC doesn't want to talk they just say "I don't want to talk about that" or whatever. Initiating dialogue is huge - it is what people do. Its why goofballs like me that only play single player games come on to public forums and make comments - because somebody clicked on us with their compelling thread topic about the game we love!

edit:

Sandtigress: While I'm still getting used to the mechanics, finding places where people talk is a little awkward. But I'm sure that after a few playthroughs I'll be finding more objects to select, more discussions to unlock, etc etc. This is MUCH better than accidentally getting a rose or an earring in the middle of a battle. Tweak away with the dialogue system, Bioware, because I think you guys are doing a great job with it!

I am sorry, but how does "finding objects to select to unlock discussion" really function better than clicking on a companion to see if they have new dialogue? (Which I have never done--I click on them because my character wants to talk to them--yes, I redo conversations sometimes that send approval the wrong direction- but hey, it is my game).

The beer keg is probably the only object that makes sense--because we all know that we are really talking to the keg and only pretending to talk to the drunk standing next to it.

Modifié par ransompendragon, 18 mars 2010 - 04:53 .

[DiatribeEQ]

I liked the old conversation system. It helped make me develop a connection with some of these characters. A reason to care about them. Right now? I feel nothing for these new folks. I liked going back to camp to talk to Wynne, Alistair, Sten & Lelianna. Heck, I even liked talking to Shale & Dog (Duppypog for me).