133 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

easternswordman wrote...

I know, the data are not accurate. That's why I only compare based on platforms, say, copies sold only on 360.

Since we're mainly doing horizontal comparisons here, there's still some discussing value. Like you said, the data is just estimate. It didn't count every sell for ME2, neither it did for every other game. I know it's not 100% accurate, but we can still compare the sale number between ME2 and other games.

I still don't get the point of this discussion. All it's doing is giving people ammo to wildly speculate why the game "isn't selling that well" based on their own problems with "ME2". Nevermind the numbers aren't accurate. People aren't letting the facts get in the way of their personal vendetta against the game.

The main problem with comparing this to other games is, you mentioned "Halo" or "Gears of War". Those are among the most popular/successful games this generation. I mean, you're talking about "MW2" which is one of the best selling games of all time. It's basically like asking why can't Group A or Group B have as many #1 albums as Jay-Z or Elvis.

The only comparison that makes sense, is Bioware's expectations vs the actual success of the game. And it's obviously a success by that standard. They shipped 2 mill and sold 80% in 6-7 weeks in January, a time of year that's usually slow for game sales.

Modifié par hex23, 17 mars 2010 - 08:17 .

[incinerator950]

Thank you

[aksoileau]

Ok I'm on iPhone so no quoting for me. First week me2 shipped 2 million copies. That means retail stores bought 2 million copies of the game. This is a different number than NPD or vgchartz. Those two use retail sales. Retail sales will be less than wholesale sales because stores are still selling the game from the shelf. Think of it like this. One crate has 60 copies, but the store has only sold 40 of them. That's why numbers can be different!

[easternswordman]

hex23 wrote...

easternswordman wrote...

I know, the data are not accurate. That's why I only compare based on platforms, say, copies sold only on 360.

Since we're mainly doing horizontal comparisons here, there's still some discussing value. Like you said, the data is just estimate. It didn't count every sell for ME2, neither it did for every other game. I know it's not 100% accurate, but we can still compare the sale number between ME2 and other games.

I still don't get the point of this discussion. All it's doing is giving people ammo to wildly speculate why the game "isn't selling that well" based on their own problems with "ME2". Nevermind the numbers aren't accurate. People aren't letting the facts get in the way of their personal vendetta against the game.

The main problem with comparing this to other games is, you mentioned "Halo" or "Gears of War". Those are among the most popular/successful games this generation. I mean, you're talking about "MW2" which is one of the best selling games of all time. It's basically like asking why can't Group A or Group B have as many #1 albums as Jay-Z or Elvis.

The only comparison that makes sense, is Bioware's expectations vs the actual success of the game. And it's obviously a success by that standard. They shipped 2 mill and sold 80% in 6-7 weeks in January, a time of year that's usually slow for game sales.

Well I appologize if I unintentionally created a chance for some extreme speculation to rise again, I didn't mean it. But I'm sure the scale is small enough to avoid causing any mess on the forum.

I'm aware that I'm comparing ME with some the best in the industry's history. But I also pointed out ME2 scored 3rd highest in Xbox history and 6th in PC's. Therefore I think the game is qualified to sit in the same room with those games in comparison. Actually, the big difference is just the matter of subject we're discussing.

[TJSolo]

hex23 wrote...

easternswordman wrote...

I know, the data are not accurate. That's why I only compare based on platforms, say, copies sold only on 360.

Since we're mainly doing horizontal comparisons here, there's still some discussing value. Like you said, the data is just estimate. It didn't count every sell for ME2, neither it did for every other game. I know it's not 100% accurate, but we can still compare the sale number between ME2 and other games.

I still don't get the point of this discussion. All it's doing is giving people ammo to wildly speculate why the game "isn't selling that well" based on their own problems with "ME2". Nevermind the numbers aren't accurate. People aren't letting the facts get in the way of their personal vendetta against the game.

The main problem with comparing this to other games is, you mentioned "Halo" or "Gears of War". Those are among the most popular/successful games this generation. I mean, you're talking about "MW2" which is one of the best selling games of all time. It's basically like asking why can't Group A or Group B have as many #1 albums as Jay-Z or Elvis.

The only comparison that makes sense, is Bioware's expectations vs the actual success of the game. And it's obviously a success by that standard. They shipped 2 mill and sold 80% in 6-7 weeks in January, a time of year that's usually slow for game sales.

Most of that would mean something if ME2 was a stand alone game and not a sequel to a hit.
No matter what time they decide to release it the established fan base would swoop it up.

It isn't like that site didn't count every avenue of sales just to spite ME2. It takes sales numbers for recent games from reputable sources(3 or more) and gives a view of a game sales that is accurate enough for casual viewing and conversation. It should not be used for business decisions but none of the forumites here are doing that anyway.

[hex23]

easternswordman wrote...

Well I appologize if I unintentionally created a chance for some extreme speculation to rise again, I didn't mean it. But I'm sure the scale is small enough to avoid causing any mess on the forum.

I'm aware that I'm comparing ME with some the best in the industry's history. But I also pointed out ME2 scored 3rd highest in Xbox history and 6th in PC's. Therefore I think the game is qualified to sit in the same room with those games in comparison. Actually, the big difference is just the matter of subject we're discussing.

It's not your fault.

You aren't getting my point though. Best doesn't always = most successful. That's just how things are. And the problem is, you're comparing the best (ME2, the most critically acclaimed) to the most successful (MW2 for example) when there isn't a relation between the two measures of success.

I'll give another example. A rap album came out last year, Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx II". According to Metacritic it's the 4th best reviewed album of '09, at 88%. It only sold 60,000 it's first week despite this.

Jay-Z's "Blueprint 3" only received decent reviews and did 476,000 it's first week.

In this comparison "ME2" is Raekwon, and "MW2" is Jay-Z. Some things are just more popular, for varous reasons.

Modifié par hex23, 17 mars 2010 - 08:54 .

[hex23]

TJSolo wrote...

Most of that would mean something if ME2 was a stand alone game and not a sequel to a hit.
No matter what time they decide to release it the established fan base would swoop it up.

It isn't like that site didn't count every avenue of sales just to spite ME2. It takes sales numbers for recent games from reputable sources(3 or more) and gives a view of a game sales that is accurate enough for casual viewing and conversation. It should not be used for business decisions but none of the forumites here are doing that anyway.

"ME1" wasn't a hit though, and "ME2" is outselling it so I don't understand what you're saying.

I mean, if we're going by VG or NPD let's look at the numbers. VG has "ME1" first week sales at 394,000 counting Japan. "ME2" on the same chart is at 961,000 first week without Japan.

All of this is pointless though because like I said the numbers aren't accurate. NPD covers 60% of the retailers and VG has been called inaccurate by Bioware in the past. Also we have zero info on the PC sales, or digital distribution. I don't see how this is "accurate enough" to discuss.

Modifié par hex23, 17 mars 2010 - 08:54 .

[easternswordman]

hex23 wrote...


It's not your fault.

You aren't getting my point though. Best doesn't always = most successful. That's just how things are. And the problem is, you're comparing the best (ME2, the most critically acclaimed) to the most successful (MW2 for example) when there isn't a relation between the two measures of success.

I'll give another example. A rap album came out last year, Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx II". According to Metacritic it's the 4th best reviewed album of '09, at 88%. It only sold 60,000 it's first week despite this.

Jay-Z's "Blueprint 3" only received decent reviews and did 476,000 it's first week.

In this comparison "ME2" is Raekwon, and "MW2" is Jay-Z. Some things are just more popular, for varous reasons.

I got your point. Actually finding why the critical acclaim can't convert into equivalent commercial success for a game like ME2 is also being discussed here. I don't hope ME game can ever sell 20 million like MW2, but imo it does deserve more attention and maybe double the sale for its quality.

Modifié par easternswordman, 17 mars 2010 - 09:05 .

[Ryzaki]

Simple answer to a simple question.



Why is ME2 not selling as well as some other game?



Because ME2 is not those other games.

[hex23]

easternswordman wrote...

I got your point. Actually finding why the critical acclaim can't convert into equivalent commercial success for a game like ME2 is also being discussed here. I don't hope ME game can ever sell 20 million like MW2, but imo it does deserve more attension and maybe double the sale for its quality.

IMO it's as successful as it can possibly be without compromising it's "vision", so to speak.

No offense but I think you have unrealistic expectations. I mean, it's on track to be GOTY, 96% average on Metacritic, sold close to 1 mill it's first week in January, a historically slow time for game sales. And it's not a FPS or a casual game. Or from an extremely well known franchise. IMO that should be applauded instead of pondering why it's not selling better or not as popular as another game.

Modifié par hex23, 17 mars 2010 - 09:09 .

[Burdokva]

One very simple question - are those figures USA or worldwide? Because usually to US folks it's simply home market and then the "rest of the world", although from my personal observation (at least in music and movies) "rest of the world" tends to outsell US market by two to three times. A recent example would be "Avatar" - I point out to it simply because there's loads of info on revenues.



I wouldn't be surprised if those 1.5 million copies are sold in the US alone, esp. seeing that vgchartz.com has an honorable "Others" chart, which could easily be Canada & Mexico alone...

[UHitMeInTheEar]

hex23 wrote...

easternswordman wrote...

Well I appologize if I unintentionally created a chance for some extreme speculation to rise again, I didn't mean it. But I'm sure the scale is small enough to avoid causing any mess on the forum.

I'm aware that I'm comparing ME with some the best in the industry's history. But I also pointed out ME2 scored 3rd highest in Xbox history and 6th in PC's. Therefore I think the game is qualified to sit in the same room with those games in comparison. Actually, the big difference is just the matter of subject we're discussing.

It's not your fault.

You aren't getting my point though. Best doesn't always = most successful. That's just how things are. And the problem is, you're comparing the best (ME2, the most critically acclaimed) to the most successful (MW2 for example) when there isn't a relation between the two measures of success.

I'll give another example. A rap album came out last year, Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx II". According to Metacritic it's the 4th best reviewed album of '09, at 88%. It only sold 60,000 it's first week despite this.

Jay-Z's "Blueprint 3" only received decent reviews and did 476,000 it's first week.

In this comparison "ME2" is Raekwon, and "MW2" is Jay-Z. Some things are just more popular, for varous reasons.

Another example would be films.  Avatar made more money then any film ever but The Hurt Locker won all the academy awards.  Critics liked the Hurt Locker more.  General audiences like Avatar more.  so which is better? 
It's a pointless argument and can't be proven either way. 

As for ME2 vs MW2.  lets just face it ME2 has a targeted audience.  Where as MW2 is aimed at 12-30 year old males who generally account for the majority of the entertainment spending.  It's the same demographic Avatar went after.  

[hex23]

Burdokva wrote...

One very simple question - are those figures USA or worldwide? Because usually to US folks it's simply home market and then the "rest of the world", although from my personal observation (at least in music and movies) "rest of the world" tends to outsell US market by two to three times. A recent example would be "Avatar" - I point out to it simply because there's loads of info on revenues.

I wouldn't be surprised if those 1.5 million copies are sold in the US alone, esp. seeing that vgchartz.com has an honorable "Others" chart, which could easily be Canada & Mexico alone...

VG is world, NPD is U.S.

The problem is, NPD only covers 60% of the U.S. retailers. So it's more of an educated guess.

And as far as VG, Bioware called them out on botching the first week sales for "ME1".

So unless a Bioware rep comes in here with cold hard numbers we have no idea how much "ME2" sold. We have vague estimates otherwise.

Modifié par hex23, 17 mars 2010 - 09:12 .

[stdepriest]

DarthCaine wrote...

Same reason adventure games became a dead genre, people don't like using their brain

I want to play some King's Quest and Space Quest again...  :-)
And Leisure Suit Larry with a bowl of Gaucamole on my head...

[TJSolo]

hex23 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Most of that would mean something if ME2 was a stand alone game and not a sequel to a hit.
No matter what time they decide to release it the established fan base would swoop it up.

It isn't like that site didn't count every avenue of sales just to spite ME2. It takes sales numbers for recent games from reputable sources(3 or more) and gives a view of a game sales that is accurate enough for casual viewing and conversation. It should not be used for business decisions but none of the forumites here are doing that anyway.

"ME1" wasn't a hit though, and "ME2" is outselling it so I don't understand what you're saying.

I mean, if we're going by VG or NPD let's look at the numbers. VG has "ME1" first week sales at 394,000 counting Japan. "ME2" on the same chart is at 961,000 first week without Japan.

All of this is pointless though because like I said the numbers aren't accurate. NPD covers 60% of the retailers and VG has been called inaccurate by Bioware in the past. Also we have zero info on the PC sales, or digital distribution. I don't see how this is "accurate enough" to discuss.

I don't know what you're talking about as far as saying ME1 was not a hit.
IF you want to use numbers now. Look at them and tell me 2million+ on the 360 is not a "hit".

I even quoted your dated article.
It is not accurate as the number BW and the article mention about ME1 has be adjusted.
Even though the point of the inaccuracy was that ME1 sold more than that was stated at the time.

The site doesn't have enough data on PC sales for either game, equally.
I am purely comparing apples to apples. 360 to 360 for a rough estimate of sales.

To add PC sales for ME2 would mean you would have to add PC sales for ME1 since both games don't have that stat on the site.
Or do you only want to bias your claim by only adding PC sales to ME2.
Most polls of public sales figures are based on retail sales and not digital sales.
You are kidding yourself in an attempt to demean the site because it doesn't completely support you notions on ME2.

Also most of the articles claiming ME2 sold 2million copies were ambiguish between the sold or shipped.

[Sith Reaper]

Several factors go into the sales of Mass Effect 2 compared to other titles, and a more technical outlook shows that it has sold fairly well. Also, it is generally due to advertisement and so on that contributes to the sales of games.

1. You will see that Mass Effect sold around a million copies in the first week, as most tend to do. When compared to other games, that's enormous. So it's actually selling well compared to other games.

2. You will notice the major demographic in there is the Wii platform. Many of the games in the top 20 are Wii games. The Wii platform has the widest audience, and therefore sells the most games, and because Mass Effect 2 isn't in this market, it cannot compete with those titles. If we compared the sales to only Xbox and PC titles, Mass Effect 2 would be higher in the list.

3. Genre. Generally, single player games tend to sell less than multiplayer games, as multiplayer tends to cater to more casual interests, and Mass Effect 2 at this time is a strict single player game.

4. Media hype. The main competitor that you mentioned, Modern Warfare 2, was heavily hyped by media coverage. When it was released, generally it had been discussed in social groups, and when was released, resulted in a large quantity of sales.

So, when looking at Mass Effect 2 compared to Xbox and PC games, it sold extremely well, considering Modern Warfare 2 is on three platforms, and had an extensive amount of media coverage, and had multiplayer aspects. You will also notice that Modern Warfare 2 is less critically acclaimed than Mass Effect 2, so sales alone do not say what is a better game. Mass Effect 2 is in fact number 8 on the most critically acclaimed games of all time for the Xbox 360.

Modifié par Sith Reaper, 17 mars 2010 - 09:46 .

[sanadawarrior]

In the end arguing over sold to customer sales is pointless because Bioware doesn't care about how much inventory the stores moved, it cares about how much it sold to those stores. If they shipped 2 million week one the game is already a huge success for them and that doesn't even count digital distribution sales.

[Sith Reaper]

sanadawarrior wrote...

In the end arguing over sold to customer sales is pointless because Bioware doesn't care about how much inventory the stores moved, it cares about how much it sold to those stores. If they shipped 2 million week one the game is already a huge success for them and that doesn't even count digital distribution sales.

Very true. The site you are looking at doesn't give the "whole perspective."

Modifié par Sith Reaper, 17 mars 2010 - 10:20 .

[hex23]

TJSolo wrote...

I don't know what you're talking about as far as saying ME1 was not a hit.
IF you want to use numbers now. Look at them and tell me 2million+ on the 360 is not a "hit".

I even quoted your dated article.
It is not accurate as the number BW and the article mention about ME1 has be adjusted.
Even though the point of the inaccuracy was that ME1 sold more than that was stated at the time.

The site doesn't have enough data on PC sales for either game, equally.
I am purely comparing apples to apples. 360 to 360 for a rough estimate of sales.

To add PC sales for ME2 would mean you would have to add PC sales for ME1 since both games don't have that stat on the site.
Or do you only want to bias your claim by only adding PC sales to ME2.
Most polls of public sales figures are based on retail sales and not digital sales.
You are kidding yourself in an attempt to demean the site because it doesn't completely support you notions on ME2.

Also most of the articles claiming ME2 sold 2million copies were ambiguish between the sold or shipped.

2 mill on 360 isn't a hit. It's extremely average if you compare it to the 360 library in general. Seriously, check your facts.

"ME2" shipped 2 mill. So far according to these obviously inaccurate sites it sold 1.5 mill or so.

"ME1" sold more than the listed 192k it's first week, but the exact number wasn't specified. As you can see VG went back and edited the number to 258k.

"ME2" sold close to 1 mill it's first week without Japan. So obviously "ME2" is much more successful than "ME1", unless you think the margin of error is 800,000+. And if you believe the margin of error is that wide this whole exchange is silly because we'd have to toss out all data from VG and/or NPD. Which ironically is what I said to begin with.

That's 360 vs 360. Me mentioning the lack of PC sales is another totally unrelated point meant to show how incomplete VG/NPD is in terms of data.

Modifié par hex23, 17 mars 2010 - 10:51 .

[Guanxii]

First of all you have to remember that the Call of Duty series is one of only a handful of franchises that have made it into the big-leagues and can pull off those kind of numbers. Quite frankly with all due respect to Infinity Ward it's analogous to comparing 'In Rainbows' to 'the Fame Monster' or 'Thriller'. (Most) people like fads because they are popular. Go figure. We're not most people.

It's not as simple as a single-player vs. multi-player or even story vs. mindless dumb fun arguement either as RE5, AC2 & FO3 have all moved 5-6 million units accross multiple platforms (according to a NPD & VGchartz), while GTA IV is the highest rated and biggest selling title of this generation and the multiplayer component is only a mere afterthought honesty speaking.

In the general scheme of things the Mario's, Madden's, Halo's and Warcrafts etc are too few and far between which is why most 3rd parties struggle to even breakeven according to 'most every report you hear coming out of the industry.

Mass Effect is simply a very hard sell to the uninitiated as others have stated and the cover art is plain awful - it's a niche of a niche and It's got 'geek'-appeal written all over it which puts a lot of people off. 

My sis for example. She's an occasional gamer playing through Assassin's Creed 2 on PC at the moment as we speak (so to speak) so you'd think she'd be a little more understanding when it came to matters related to gaming but even she felt the need to lay into me (lightheartly) when she caught me once and then a second time in the middle of my first playthrough of ME2 as if it was some kind of weird fetish porn or as if i had joined a cult and was in need of intervention.

It put me in BioWare's shoes - The more I attempted to explain it the more I alienated her and I think this is a microcosm of the wider problem BioWare/EA face marketing Mass Effect to a mass audience.

Modifié par Guanxii, 17 mars 2010 - 10:40 .

[javierabegazo]

Why did Twilight outsell Amelie in the Box office?



Because there IS no God, that's why,

[TJSolo]

[quote]hex23 wrote...
2 mill on 360 isn't a hit. It's extremely average if you compare it to the 360 library in general. Seriously, check your facts.[/quote]

Predictable.
There are hits that sell a good amount like 2mil+.(ME1)
There are hits that sell a real good amount around 3mil+(Fable 2)
Then there are hit that sell ludicrous amounts of units. 10mil+(Halo 3)
I don't feel like I need to come to agreement on the term "hit" with you since you are obviously twisted and delibrately being ignorant.
Average would be games that don't even break a half million sold; like NBA Live 10 and Army of Two:40th day.


[quote]"ME2" shipped 2 mill. So far according to these obviously inaccurate sites it sold 1.5 mill or so.[/quote]
That is why polls like Sound Scan and NPD use facts like unit SOLD not units shipped. The 2 million was only an estimate from EA based on units shipped not sold. A few articles took that and spun it.

[quote]"ME1" sold more than the listed 192k it's first week, but the exact number wasn't specified. As you can see VG went back and edited the number to 258k.[/quote]
Right and that issue was the one specifically stated by BW back from 2007 in the article you posted.
You claim that VG is inaccurate because BW debunked them in one article but fact is VG went back and corrected(not edited) their mistake. If the site was as inaccurate as you are claiming VG would not have corrected their mistake.

[qoute]"ME2" sold close to 1 mill it's first week without Japan. So obviously "ME2" is much more successful than "ME1", unless you think the margin of error is 800,000+. And if you believe the margin of error is that wide this whole exchange is silly because we'd have to toss out all data from VG and/or NPD. Which ironically is what I said to begin with.[/quote]

What is sold in the first week doesn't make it more successful. It just means it sold faster in the first week, due in large part to being a sequel of a hit game and have multiple preorder incentives.
As the weeks passed the numbers dropped and actually are behind in pacing compared to ME1.
It was on pace to surpass the sales of ME1 but the pacing dropped and has not supassed ME1 360 sales.


[quote]That's 360 vs 360. Me mentioning the lack of PC sales is another totally unrelated point meant to show how incomplete VG/NPD is in terms of data.
[/quote]

When the comparision is between 360 v 360 sales your drudging up and saying "it doesn't include PC sales" is completely irrelevant.
PC sales look to be either badly reported or in the case of direct downloads not reported at all since those records are property of the publisher. Publishers aren't exactly willing to disclose information when they don't have to and when it is  possible for competitors to see.
Retail numbers are not property of the publisher and do get reported.
People will bring up console sales more often because console market is bigger.
That isn't a jab against PC gamers, just the truth.

[R0cket Surge0n]

Basically because most gamers are younger now and "omg this is nothing like Halo!!1"

[ShadyKat]

ME2 sold 2 million copies in under 1 week. How is that selling poorly. Some games wish they could sell like that.

[hex23]

TJSolo wrote...

Predictable.
There are hits that sell a good amount like 2mil+.(ME1)
There are hits that sell a real good amount around 3mil+(Fable 2)
Then there are hit that sell ludicrous amounts of units. 10mil+(Halo 3)
I don't feel like I need to come to agreement on the term "hit" with you since you are obviously twisted and delibrately being ignorant.
Average would be games that don't even break a half million sold; like NBA Live 10 and Army of Two:40th day.

"ME2" shipped 2 mill. So far according to these obviously inaccurate sites it sold 1.5 mill or so.

That is why polls like Sound Scan and NPD use facts like unit SOLD not units shipped. The 2 million was only an estimate from EA based on units shipped not sold. A few articles took that and spun it.

"ME1" sold more than the listed 192k it's first week, but the exact number wasn't specified. As you can see VG went back and edited the number to 258k.

Right and that issue was the one specifically stated by BW back from 2007 in the article you posted.
You claim that VG is inaccurate because BW debunked them in one article but fact is VG went back and corrected(not edited) their mistake. If the site was as inaccurate as you are claiming VG would not have corrected their mistake.

What is sold in the first week doesn't make it more successful. It just means it sold faster in the first week, due in large part to being a sequel of a hit game and have multiple preorder incentives.
As the weeks passed the numbers dropped and actually are behind in pacing compared to ME1.
It was on pace to surpass the sales of ME1 but the pacing dropped and has not supassed ME1 360 sales.


When the comparision is between 360 v 360 sales your drudging up and saying "it doesn't include PC sales" is completely irrelevant.
PC sales look to be either badly reported or in the case of direct downloads not reported at all since those records are property of the publisher. Publishers aren't exactly willing to disclose information when they don't have to and when it is  possible for competitors to see.
Retail numbers are not property of the publisher and do get reported.
People will bring up console sales more often because console market is bigger.
That isn't a jab against PC gamers, just the truth.

Games that don't break half a mill are considered flops. 1-2 mill is the average nowadays. Again, check your facts. Selling 500k probably wouldn't even be enough to cover dev costs and marketing in 2010.

VG "corrected" their first week sales for "ME2" 2-3 times. They "corrected" the first week sales for "ME1" too. They routinely "correct" their sales figures for a number of games. If they had any idea what they were talking about they wouldn't need to constantly do this.

NPD uses facts, yes. From only 60% of the retailers in the U.S. Also they don't count Wal-Mart, the biggest retailer in the U.S. So what you call "facts" are more like "educated guesses".

"ME2" has sold close to 350,000 more than "ME1" in the same time span, in less regions. No Japan, remember? Also "ME1" came out a month before Christmas. "ME2" came out a month AFTER Christmas.

Do the math if you don't believe me. I dunno where you pulled "it's behind ME1" from. It's blatantly inaccurate.

Last but not least any sales data in a thread about sales data is completely relevant. It makes zero sense to talk about a game's sales "on 360 only" when it's on PC too, and obviously selling extremely well. This is especially odd considering the thread is about "ME2" supposedly underperforming. Now we can only talk about console sales? It's as if you guys are looking for a reason to say it underperformed.

We can either talk about total sales, or not talk about sales at all. Which I'd prefer honestly because like I said NPD and VG aren't accurate.

Modifié par hex23, 18 mars 2010 - 04:02 .