133 réponses à ce sujet

[TJSolo]

hex23 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Predictable.
There are hits that sell a good amount like 2mil+.(ME1)
There are hits that sell a real good amount around 3mil+(Fable 2)
Then there are hit that sell ludicrous amounts of units. 10mil+(Halo 3)
I don't feel like I need to come to agreement on the term "hit" with you since you are obviously twisted and delibrately being ignorant.
Average would be games that don't even break a half million sold; like NBA Live 10 and Army of Two:40th day.

"ME2" shipped 2 mill. So far according to these obviously inaccurate sites it sold 1.5 mill or so.

That is why polls like Sound Scan and NPD use facts like unit SOLD not units shipped. The 2 million was only an estimate from EA based on units shipped not sold. A few articles took that and spun it.

"ME1" sold more than the listed 192k it's first week, but the exact number wasn't specified. As you can see VG went back and edited the number to 258k.

Right and that issue was the one specifically stated by BW back from 2007 in the article you posted.
You claim that VG is inaccurate because BW debunked them in one article but fact is VG went back and corrected(not edited) their mistake. If the site was as inaccurate as you are claiming VG would not have corrected their mistake.

What is sold in the first week doesn't make it more successful. It just means it sold faster in the first week, due in large part to being a sequel of a hit game and have multiple preorder incentives.
As the weeks passed the numbers dropped and actually are behind in pacing compared to ME1.
It was on pace to surpass the sales of ME1 but the pacing dropped and has not supassed ME1 360 sales.


When the comparision is between 360 v 360 sales your drudging up and saying "it doesn't include PC sales" is completely irrelevant.
PC sales look to be either badly reported or in the case of direct downloads not reported at all since those records are property of the publisher. Publishers aren't exactly willing to disclose information when they don't have to and when it is  possible for competitors to see.
Retail numbers are not property of the publisher and do get reported.
People will bring up console sales more often because console market is bigger.
That isn't a jab against PC gamers, just the truth.

Games that don't break half a mill are considered flops. 1-2 mill is the average nowadays. Again, check your facts. Selling 500k probably wouldn't even be enough to cover dev costs and marketing in 2010.

VG "corrected" their first week sales for "ME2" 2-3 times. They "corrected" the first week sales for "ME1" too. They routinely "correct" their sales figures for a number of games. If they had any idea what they were talking about they wouldn't need to constantly do this.

NPD uses facts, yes. From only 60% of the retailers in the U.S. Also they don't count Wal-Mart, the biggest retailer in the U.S. So what you call "facts" are more like "educated guesses".

"ME2" has sold close to 350,000 more than "ME1" in the same time span, in less regions. No Japan, remember? Do the math if you don't believe me. I dunno where you pulled "it's behind ME1" from. It's blatantly inaccurate.

Last but not least any sales data in a thread about sales data is completely relevant. It makes zero sense to talk about a game's sales "on 360 only" when it's on PC too, and obviously selling extremely well. This is especially odd considering the thread is about "ME2" supposedly underperforming. Now we can only talk about console sales? It's as if you guys are looking for a reason to say it underperformed.

We can either talk about total sales, or not talk about sales at all. Which I'd prefer honestly because like I said NPD and VG aren't accurate.

I said 500k would be average sales. Nothing about whether or not those sales allowed for a company to recoup development costs. I am not even going to bother with marketing costs as that is just laughable.
You can't say that x sales for y company makes them money or not. That isn't the topic all we are discussing are the sales.


By being a company that corrects errors makes them appear more like they care about accuracy.
Saying they made errors and corrected errors is not grounds for calling them inaccurate.

Are you just copying random chat box comments that support you?
That laymans comment about the percentage taken doesn't make the sample size VG does use wrong or ignorable.
You don't need 100% of anything to take a sample size and make estimates from it.
Since you are big on facts why don't you look up financial reports of Wal-mart and tell me how much of a factor VG sales is to their bottomline. Maybe if we were excluding Walmart from a topic on oil changes it might be valid.

A 60% sampling size is massive considering most polling instutions only us 1-5% for any given poll.

You saying because of one given time frame where ME2 outsold ME1, means ME2 has sold more than ME1.
You need to look over the time frames and even with the large spurt ME2 had in the beginning it has dropped back in sales compared to the same time frame as ME1.

If the topic revolves around one type of data(Time, height, consoles) and equally factors out another set of data(distance, width, PC)  then that topic can be accurate within the confines of said data.
The topic of game sales is covered via console sales if the game is multiplaform to include PC.

You seem to want to use the data to support your claims of performance
but at the same time demean the data when others accurately use it to
prove show something else.
You can't have it both ways. Either you accept that the data can be used to represent both sides and not just yours or you stop bringing the data up since it is not saying what you think it is.

[spernus]

Bioware game are selling better than I would expect,given the amount of dialogue in them.

If Bioware did get rid of most of the dialogue in their game in favor of more emphasis on monster bashing and action,they would easily sell 5-6 million copies (therefore lost of choices and consequences or roleplaying).

They would also lose their identity and create mostly mediocre or standard rpg,unless they could master rpg gameplay like Blizzard does with Diablo.

So yes,having a lot of the game being centered around dialogue or roleplaying will always limit the appeal of Bioware versus the lucrative democratic aka 18-30 years old males (and younger).Just look at Avatar which has some of the most simplistic and horrid dialogue for a mainstream movie and yet its the most popular movie so far.

I think Bioware know that having such a focus on dialogue limit their appeal and they assume.

If you want proof,just head to mmorpg.com and check out the star war forums,where you have plenty of mmorpg gamers doubting The old republic.I can tell you that they couldnt care less about the story or the vast amount of dialogues.What they wanna know and care about is combat,raid bosses+loot.

Modifié par spernus, 18 mars 2010 - 04:57 .

[Commander Shepard]

Its because the majority of the population are a bunch of idiots and have no brain and god forbid they expand their minds and do a little thinking. Mass Effect is a game that requires a bit of thinking and an imagination. Most people just want to shoot shoot shoot. Its because Mass Effect attracts an intelligent audience (which is smaller than the "dumb" audience). Most people run to games like Call of Duty because its straight forward and doesnt require much thought to play. (I love Call of Duty so please nobody jump down my throat)

[Nick Fox]

Personally i am both surprised and not  on ME 2's sales so far. With a large fanbase and a bigger hype machine behind it it still isnt up to 3 millions ? Strange but it'll get there with more dlc on the horizon to help it, That I am sure of.
This proves that the shooter crowd (big part of it anyway) just cant deal with anything that breaks up their belowed action. No surprise there, duh!! And BW attempt to catch consumers from that crowd wasnt all that succesful (so far). Who would've guessed that.....

Overall though the figures arent bad at all! its a pretty number just not what BW had hoped for.
With the ME 3 it will rise even more if for nothing else than the more known factor. If that will be a hughe raise or not depends on wich route they'll take take.
Its hard to "enlighten" the crowds, that have always been the curse of more sophisticated artists through the human history. There are exceptions but its very hard to achive. Lets hope BW can

[AngryFrozenWater]

I hesitate to trust "sources" like VGChartz. The article in Gamasutra gave me enough warnings.

Analysis: What VGChartz Does (And Doesn't) Do For The Game Biz.

I also think that sales figures don't change how I feel about a game. The experience is subjective and liking or disliking the game is not dependent on sales numbers. BioWare does have the actual numbers and tries to use our input to improve the game to increase sales. I don't have any other options than to ventilate my opinion and to trust BioWare in their efforts to improve their games by taking opinions from gamers into account. Obviously my interests as a gamer may not coincide with their interests to sell games. That's more reason to be critical and never follow them blindly.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 18 mars 2010 - 10:22 .

[FlintlockJazz]

DarthCaine wrote...

Same reason adventure games became a dead genre, people don't like using their brain

I miss all those point'n'clicks.  Monkey Island 1 & 2 still burns strongly in my heart, along with Zak McKraken, Broken Sword, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade...damnit now I need to go play them again!

[Heart Collector]

I miss the Gabriel Knight series as well, not to mention Full Throttle, Discworld, Leisure Suit Larry...



Anyway, on topic, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are both niche games, with 2 being more "mainstream" but still niche.



I love both games for what they are, as a whole and separately, though I'm not too happy about the more traditional RPG elements of ME being stripped down so much... I think that a bit of streamlining was necessary, but not as much as it was. I hope they will be partially restored for ME3.

[Splortched]

Reason 1 I'm probably gonna return ME2: Horrible key binding system. Worse I've come across yet.

[FlintlockJazz]

I only played the first Gabriel Knight game but I loved it. Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to be all elitist and say it was the lesser masses that killed it (though they are masses and are also lesser), this article pretty much makes a strong argument for why adventure games died (you can skip the example walkthrough he has on page 2, though it does help his argument):

http://www.oldmanmur...eatures/77.html

Fortunately they do seem to be making a bit of a comeback what with Telltale games making the new Tales of Monkey Island and LucasArts finally going back to the genre of games they were actually good at (though most of their staff left LucasArts for Telltale after they ditched the adventure genre).  It won't ever be a major genre again I think but its finding its niche.

Ontopic, I wouldn't put much faith in sales reports. I'm sure ME2 sold well, and regardless no one was going to beat MW2 in sales even if MW2 had been made from the feces of space chimps and smeared on the player's faces by the publishers who would come round their house to ransack it before flinging vials of their pee at each other. That's just how the world works these days...

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 18 mars 2010 - 11:46 .