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[Lara Denton]

Ceridraen wrote...

I wonder why he'll run off with his mistress but not his noble woman wife? That's odd. You didn't make him marry Anora, I assume? I was thinking it might be because they have to have a king or queen left in charge. How very odd!

I didn't marry him with anyone. He was king by himself and with my elven mage as a mistress. Like I said, I found it odd that I got that ending, but it seems that it only differs for the HFN wife.

[Lara Denton]

Addai67 wrote...

Ceridraen wrote...

Hmmm. I wonder what happens in my original, which no one but me seems to do? Which is make Anora take the job, & he & I putter happily around?

And yes, I can't imagine Velanna with anyone. Maybe Nathaniel.  But she doesn't seem like the romantic sort, not even in an "I don't love you - I do!" Morrigan way.

On my 1st character, a city elf, I made Anora sole ruler, but it made me so unhappy to see Alistair disclaim the throne for himself and his heirs that I never did it again.

My Dalish elf romanced Alistair and I think it was possibly the most romantic Alistair ending I've had, though bittersweet.  For nostalgia's sake I just went back and loaded an old save to replay where he asks her about Dalish funeral practices, which was the first time a little ****** fell out of her anti-shem armor.  He sounds so moved and sincere as he says "that is really beautiful."

She came to see the Wardens as her "clan"- couldn't go back to Dalish life, after all- and from there it was not so hard for her to fall in love with Alistair.  She was the daughter of a keeper (descendants of Arlathan nobility) who grew up rough, he was the son of a king who grew up sleeping in stables.  It was beautiful in a melancholic way.  Melancholic, of course, because she had to share him with a political wife.  I think the mistress epilogue is more romantic than the consort one, however, even in Origins.

We're going off topic here, but why marry him to Anora? Probably you went along with some type of RPG-ing, but why share him?

Edited to add: I kept saying mistress as I've seen the term being used even if he was the sole ruler. Well then, as the topic says, the king's lover. My bad.

Modifié par laradenton, 22 mars 2010 - 06:11 .

[Ceridraen]

And after all, they don't explain everything. There's nothing to say you *didn't* have a little half-elf baby (or better, 3/4 elf baby) - in theory, you might trot off because your baby's pointy ears & lithe little body might serve as proof that the father wasn't quite so human as everyone thought.

I tried marrying him to Anora on one of my boy elf saves, thinking she had a certain bossy charm, they might like each other. Ha! She slaps him away at the coronation, & I went back & redid it. I couldn't leave him with *that!*


Either way, nothing to say we can't embellish as we like!


eta: I have a hard time caring about the fate of the monarchy, I guess. I think he'd be happier as a warden, & not a politician. (I know I would)   That way, his heirs are free. (and I flatly refuse to believe there won't be elven heirs)  I guess it depends on whether you view being king as a good thing or not.  

Modifié par Ceridraen, 22 mars 2010 - 06:22 .

[SurelyForth]

The epilogues aren't dependent on your relationship with Alistair (whether you're getting married, together while he's king or together as Wardens) they're dependent on what you say you're doing. A consort, a mistress or a Warden can get the same secondary epilogue depending on what is chosen when he or Anora ask you what your plans are.

Similarly, the epilogue in Awakening seems to let the PC's status as King/Queen act as the "relationship card" so instead of including Alistair in the disappearance, you get the generic romanceless card. If you're not queen, the romance card doubles as the diappearance card.

I am so cynical about the epilogues in general. From Awakening, it seems like they developed the game off of the companion endings you get if you don't romance anyone and do the US (Leliana in Orlais, Zev in Antiva, Alistair going back to the Wardens, but leaving again because it's not the same...I guess that's what happened to him).

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 mars 2010 - 12:01 .

[nos_astra]

Ceridraen wrote...
And after all, they don't explain everything. There's nothing to say you *didn't* have a little half-elf baby (or better, 3/4 elf baby) - in theory, you might trot off because your baby's pointy ears & lithe little body might serve as proof that the father wasn't quite so human as everyone thought.

O.o

Um, I thought it was established that two Grey Wardens can't have kids (by any natural means) and human+elf= human.

Modifié par klarabella, 22 mars 2010 - 12:14 .

[The Angry One]

klarabella wrote...

Um, I thought it was established that two Grey Wardens can't have kids (by any natural means)

It's improbable. Not impossible.

and human+elf= human.

Let's.. just.. forget that. Please.

[SurelyForth]

The Angry One wrote...

and human+elf= human.

Let's.. just.. forget that. Please.

Why? It's part of the lore given by the head writer (so is the "two Grey Wardens will not have a child together by any natural means").

[Tinnic]

Ceridraen wrote...

And after all, they don't explain everything. There's nothing to say you *didn't* have a little half-elf baby (or better, 3/4 elf baby) - in theory, you might trot off because your baby's pointy ears & lithe little body might serve as proof that the father wasn't quite so human as everyone thought.

Heh! Someone else who thinks Alistair's mother was not who we were told she was but a certain Grey Warden Elven Mage by the name of Fiona!

*sigh* I was so, so hoping that we could do a quest in Awakening involving Fiona but apparently not :'(

[Addai]

I'm on Team Fiona, as well, and with my Dalish character do mentally write in hopes for a child between her and Alistair. However as elven blood appears to be recessive, I doubt it would make a difference in kingdom terms. This is even assuming anyone notices or cares whether the king's elven bastard is more or less like the mother.

And there's no forgetting that to mate with a shem means your descendants are human, not elven. I made this part of my own RP story surrounding my Dalish character. From elven perspective, your relationship with him is participating in the decline of the elves. It's another thing that makes such a pairing bittersweet, but in its own way romantic- everyone is against it, it's you and him against the world. The humans will snicker about the king's elven wh*re, the elves will complain that they get a hero but she goes and mates with a shem. Hard realities, but no way to get around them.

As far as whether you view being king a good thing or not, it's also a matter of Alistair having to continue to deny what he is. The throne is rightfully his. Seeing him disclaim it made me sad. But I'm also influenced by the novels. Seeing how Maric inspired the people, I knew that Alistair could do the same, and that he should do. It just feels wrong in my gut that he should not be king. Others' MMV, of course.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mars 2010 - 03:24 .

[Tinnic]

I made Alistair fight Loghain with Maric's sword from Return to Ostagar and mentally inserted lines for Loghain to say/think as he recognises that Alistair is using Maric's famous sword that was apparently too powerful for Cailan to use.

[JosieJ]

I didn't mind the way Alistair related to my HNF (his queen) in Awakenings too much, except that it was all too brief.  But as for the kneeling, the formal peck on the cheek, the lack of reference to my PC as the queen, and such, I just roleplayed around those elements.  The kneeling and peck on the cheek were because of the need to be circumspect and formal in public situations (although I could just imagine he was whispering something naughty to her!), and the lack of reference to her as the queen was because she specifically requested beforehand that everyone address her as "Commander" and not "Your Majesty."  She wanted to emphasize that her role here was as the Commander of the Grey (I actually got a thrill everytime someone addressed her this way!) and not as the Queen of Ferelden.

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I so wanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

[SurelyForth]

JosieJ wrote...

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I so wanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

I also wanted to push the issue with Rylock during Anders's personal quest, but I'm not sure how that would shake out since we were there to destroy his phylactery and all. If word of that got back to Denerim it might not go over so well with the Chantry.

So we killed her instead.

[Nhadalie]

SurelyForth wrote...

I also wanted to push the issue with Rylock during Anders's personal quest, but I'm not sure how that would shake out since we were there to destroy his phylactery and all. If word of that got back to Denerim it might not go over so well with the Chantry.

So we killed her instead.

The thing with Rylock really bothered me. Grey Wardens, and the right of conscription supersede everything else. Including the King/Queen, and the Chantry. Why in the hells did Rylock think it was a good idea to set a trap for a Grey Warden, who was possibly under the command of the King/Queen-consort? That's treason anyway you look at it, and it goes against the lore about the right of conscription.

I wanted to smack some sense into Rylock verbally instead of killing her. I was very irritated that there was no option to do so.

[odiedragon]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Also, what's with all the Eamon hate? Sheesh. I liked the guy. My Cousland completely understand where he is coming from. Yes, it's not pretty, but it is realistic and she understands the politics behind it. It's one of the reasons I did a Cousland/Eamon story to show that side of the characters.

My Cousland likes him just fine.  *I* don't like him (understatement of the year, that).

In fact, I just re-did my final battle with my Cousland yesterday, because I didn't like the "you idiot, of COURSE you'll be serving the throne, being queen and all" response from Alistair if you request your boon to be serving the crown.  Sure, Eamon leaves then, but it felt way too metagamy for me.  My Cousland is totally on the same page as Eamon wrt Alistair's bloodline being important, nor does she believe that being a Warden negates that fact.  After all, she has a vested interst in beliveing this line of rhetoric...

She's also in the Alistair's gonna need all the help he can get camp, so Eamon leaving would actually upset her.  Plus, having him around is convienent, because then she's not stuck with Regent Duty every time Alistair leaves Denerim.

[SurelyForth]

Nhadalie wrote...


The thing with Rylock really bothered me. Grey Wardens, and the right of conscription supersede everything else. Including the King/Queen, and the Chantry. Why in the hells did Rylock think it was a good idea to set a trap for a Grey Warden, who was possibly under the command of the King/Queen-consort? That's treason anyway you look at it, and it goes against the lore about the right of conscription.

I wanted to smack some sense into Rylock verbally instead of killing her. I was very irritated that there was no option to do so.

I think, ostensibly, the Rite of Conscription should superscede Chantry authority, but it still might be a major faux pas to destroy a phylactery since there is no way to guarantee that your mage will remain with you.

In the end, though, I am on the side of Anders in this situation and I think Rylock's trap and her pulling rank proves his point about the templars/Chantry quite well.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 mars 2010 - 04:08 .

[errant_knight]

JosieJ wrote...

I didn't mind the way Alistair related to my HNF (his queen) in Awakenings too much, except that it was all too brief.  But as for the kneeling, the formal peck on the cheek, the lack of reference to my PC as the queen, and such, I just roleplayed around those elements.  The kneeling and peck on the cheek were because of the need to be circumspect and formal in public situations (although I could just imagine he was whispering something naughty to her!), and the lack of reference to her as the queen was because she specifically requested beforehand that everyone address her as "Commander" and not "Your Majesty."  She wanted to emphasize that her role here was as the Commander of the Grey (I actually got a thrill everytime someone addressed her this way!) and not as the Queen of Ferelden.

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I so wanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

I'm pretty sure that Nathaniel was being deeply sarcastic there.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Well, Lynn was his elven mage lover but gave him up to his responsibilities because she felt his duty was important. Then she rode Zevran into the sunset. However... Nothing of Alistair's longing and love for Lynn was even mentioned in Awakenings though he did seem sad about not being able to travel with Lynn again. To my rose colored eyes and ears, it did sound like longing but didn't quite meet expectations.



Oh well, she wants her Zevran or at least another fling with Leliana anyway. I do think she would eat Anders and Nathaniel alive though. Ah, the dear mage based on my wife. XD

[Corti78]

I hated Rylock. How foolish must a person be to openly defy and object to the GW Commander and the rite of conscription. Not only that but to do so when the Commander is the Queen and the King is standing RIGHT THERE. If the Grand Cleric could not object to Duncan invoking the rite to recruit Alistair, there is no way a lowly Templar can rightfully do so. I honestly wish Alistair would have let me put her in her place.

Then of course there was the fact she commits treason by attacking the Queen/GW Commander. This could have only ended in her execution (if she could somehow survive our run in) either by order of the King or the First Warden. The woman obviously did not think much about consequences...

[BubbleDncr]

Tinnic wrote...

Ceridraen wrote...

And after all, they don't explain everything. There's nothing to say you *didn't* have a little half-elf baby (or better, 3/4 elf baby) - in theory, you might trot off because your baby's pointy ears & lithe little body might serve as proof that the father wasn't quite so human as everyone thought.

Heh! Someone else who thinks Alistair's mother was not who we were told she was but a certain Grey Warden Elven Mage by the name of Fiona!

*sigh* I was so, so hoping that we could do a quest in Awakening involving Fiona but apparently not :'(

This is part of the reason I think the sequel will use the same characters (unless there's another expansion that deals with all these unanswered questions). Gaider will neither confirm nor deny that Fiona is Alistair's mommy, which, if it wasn't gonna come up in a future game, there'd be no reason not to.

[BubbleDncr]

Corti78 wrote...

I hated Rylock. How foolish must a person be to openly defy and object to the GW Commander and the rite of conscription. Not only that but to do so when the Commander is the Queen and the King is standing RIGHT THERE. If the Grand Cleric could not object to Duncan invoking the rite to recruit Alistair, there is no way a lowly Templar can rightfully do so. I honestly wish Alistair would have let me put her in her place.

Then of course there was the fact she commits treason by attacking the Queen/GW Commander. This could have only ended in her execution (if she could somehow survive our run in) either by order of the King or the First Warden. The woman obviously did not think much about consequences...

I think everyone that's stupid enough to attack the Grey Warden at this point deserves to die.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

I think everyone that's stupid enough to attack the Grey Warden at this point deserves to die.

Pretty much this.

[JosieJ]

SurelyForth wrote...

JosieJ wrote...

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I so wanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

I also wanted to push the issue with Rylock during Anders's personal quest, but I'm not sure how that would shake out since we were there to destroy his phylactery and all. If word of that got back to Denerim it might not go over so well with the Chantry.

So we killed her instead.

She was clearly too obsessed to pay attention, even if I had pulled rank on her, so I didn't even want to bother.  I just killed her, too!

errant_knight wrote...

JosieJ wrote...

I didn't mind the way Alistair related to my HNF (his queen) in Awakenings too much, except that it was all too brief.  But as for the kneeling, the formal peck on the cheek, the lack of reference to my PC as the queen, and such, I just roleplayed around those elements.  The kneeling and peck on the cheek were because of the need to be circumspect and formal in public situations (although I could just imagine he was whispering something naughty to her!), and the lack of reference to her as the queen was because she specifically requested beforehand that everyone address her as "Commander" and not "Your Majesty."  She wanted to emphasize that her role here was as the Commander of the Grey (I actually got a thrill everytime someone addressed her this way!) and not as the Queen of Ferelden.

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I sowanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

I'm pretty sure that Nathaniel was being deeply sarcastic there.

I didn't read sarcasm in the way the actor delivered his lines (but then, that kind of thing often flies over my head), and I thought it was plausible enough that he had no clue or that he was being willfully blind (after all, that's not the only thing he would have been willfully blind about).

But even if it was sarcastic, I still wanted to get in the last word! 

[errant_knight]

JosieJ wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

JosieJ wrote...

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I so wanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

I also wanted to push the issue with Rylock during Anders's personal quest, but I'm not sure how that would shake out since we were there to destroy his phylactery and all. If word of that got back to Denerim it might not go over so well with the Chantry.

So we killed her instead.

She was clearly too obsessed to pay attention, even if I had pulled rank on her, so I didn't even want to bother.  I just killed her, too!

errant_knight wrote...

JosieJ wrote...

I didn't mind the way Alistair related to my HNF (his queen) in Awakenings too much, except that it was all too brief.  But as for the kneeling, the formal peck on the cheek, the lack of reference to my PC as the queen, and such, I just roleplayed around those elements.  The kneeling and peck on the cheek were because of the need to be circumspect and formal in public situations (although I could just imagine he was whispering something naughty to her!), and the lack of reference to her as the queen was because she specifically requested beforehand that everyone address her as "Commander" and not "Your Majesty."  She wanted to emphasize that her role here was as the Commander of the Grey (I actually got a thrill everytime someone addressed her this way!) and not as the Queen of Ferelden.

The one time I really wanted the option to refer to my PC as the queen was in the conversation with Nathaniel where he says he'll join King Alistair's service and that he's sure Alistair would give a Howe a second chance.  I sowanted to respond "Not hardly, hon--I'm married to the man, after all!"  But alas, no.

I'm pretty sure that Nathaniel was being deeply sarcastic there.

I didn't read sarcasm in the way the actor delivered his lines (but then, that kind of thing often flies over my head), and I thought it was plausible enough that he had no clue or that he was being willfully blind (after all, that's not the only thing he would have been willfully blind about).

But even if it was sarcastic, I still wanted to get in the last word! 

I'm actually certain that he was being sarcastic. I was being diplomatic. Nathaniel had quite a number of lines that were dry sarcasm. I often found him funnier than Anders.

You couldn't have the last word because not all possible PCs have any relationship with the crown.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 06:49 .

[JosieJ]

errant_knight wrote...


I'm actually certain that he was being sarcastic. I was being diplomatic. Nathaniel had quite a number of lines that were dry sarcasm. I often found him funnier than Anders.

Well, as I said, that kind of thing often flies over my head, although I do like Nathaniel's dry sarcasm (I think that's the only instance I missed).

You couldn't have the last word because not all possible PCs have any relationship with the crown.

They do manage to acknowledge a relationship in the beginning of the game when you meet up with Alistair.  I don't think it'd be that difficult to have acknowledge it in that conversation.  It would really only call for the addition of one dialogue option.

Modifié par JosieJ, 22 mars 2010 - 07:17 .

[LadyDamodred]

odiedragon wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Also, what's with all the Eamon hate? Sheesh. I liked the guy. My Cousland completely understand where he is coming from. Yes, it's not pretty, but it is realistic and she understands the politics behind it. It's one of the reasons I did a Cousland/Eamon story to show that side of the characters.

My Cousland likes him just fine.  *I* don't like him (understatement of the year, that).

In fact, I just re-did my final battle with my Cousland yesterday, because I didn't like the "you idiot, of COURSE you'll be serving the throne, being queen and all" response from Alistair if you request your boon to be serving the crown.  Sure, Eamon leaves then, but it felt way too metagamy for me.  My Cousland is totally on the same page as Eamon wrt Alistair's bloodline being important, nor does she believe that being a Warden negates that fact.  After all, she has a vested interst in beliveing this line of rhetoric...

She's also in the Alistair's gonna need all the help he can get camp, so Eamon leaving would actually upset her.  Plus, having him around is convienent, because then she's not stuck with Regent Duty every time Alistair leaves Denerim.

Excellent!  It seems that finding others who are on the same page as me regarding Eamon is difficult.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinsk that way.  Out of curiousity, does your Cousland believe like mine does that Alistair needs an heir, even if it's not with her?