132 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

slydfoxxy wrote...

personally I found Sigrun really emo

She's like the peppiest, most chipper character ever.

[Corephyfish]

not in my playthrough, all i could get her to talk about was how her life sucked and she was a duster and she just wanted to die, I mean she was part of the legion of the dead who are considered dead already. Maybe its just me but all the conversations I had with her ended up with her trying to make me feel sorry for her, AND she always disapproved of everything I did (and my character was NICE)


*edit* by the way, I like your avatar

Modifié par slydfoxxy, 18 mars 2010 - 06:11 .

[Blindside002]

slydfoxxy wrote...

personally I found Sigrun really emo, Valenna a **** and Justice too up himself, I spent most of my time with Oghren, Anders and Nathaniel in my party because personally I fund it to have the best banter combination but thats just my opinion.

How did you find her Emo? She always seemed really perky to me which was a suprise because of where she came from and what she did. Which is why I as utterly suprised by her Epilogue.  She mentioned some parts that were a little depressing, but she mostly just got pissed when people asked her stupid or obvious questions.

[MColes]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

slydfoxxy wrote...

personally I found Sigrun really emo

She's like the peppiest, most chipper character ever.

Have her stealth by default for good times.

"On my tip tip tippy toes~"

Also, Oghren's working out some personal issues if you can work past the filth.

[AuraofMana]

"That way?" What way? Full plate armor? If a girl dresses in full plate armor she deserves to have guys ask if they can show her their genitals? They deserve to be badgered for sex? Really?

You knew very well of what I was talking about.  Pretending to not get something is such a weak attempt at dodging.

But that's just Sigrun. Let's take Velanna. She doesn't dress that scantily. Her outfit shows a little hip and some cleavage, but otherwise is suitable for her wilderness-focused lifestyle. She's in the chasind robe; it's not that bad. So she deserves to be told that her butt is too bony to be used as proper cushion? Really?

Last time I checked, going half-naked in the wild doesn't offer much protection at all.  If a girl dresses like that, men are going to assume she's a ****.  Last time I checked, ****s weren't on any men's list for respect.  So yes, she deserved it.

And that's ignoring the fact that she wasn't even wearing that outfit when Oghren was talking to her. She was wearing the model robe that Wynne wears. Oghren was there when I talked to Wynne, why didn't he harrass her? She obviously deserved to be harrassed by dressing in a full-bodied robe. What a skank!

The game assumes she is wearing her INITIAL robe because the writers felt that robe backed up her character personality.  Stop acting like an idiot.
And apparently you instantly assumed Oghren would comment about someone as old as Wynne.  Quite ironic you would find this offensive.

So, I should make topics about every single little thing that annoys me? You talk about logic but you don't seem to have much common sense. That sounds pretty insulting, but come on. Maybe you deserve to be insulted.

You already are posting something little that annoys you.  It's a great start for you, so go for it.
Oh, good attempt at "you don't seem to have much common sense".  I am not the one going on a forum to complain about some in-game character saying something lewd in a mature, dark fantasy RPG geared toward adults.  Maybe you should understand the meaning of game ratings before you go on a rant.

I have posted about other things; I just haven't created my own topics about them. This was something that I got tired of because it was so frequent and so over-the-top vulgar. And not only that, but it seems to be glorified. Killing Connor is treated as it should be. You're killing a kid, and there's plenty of drama to reflect that. The mother is sick with grief, desperately fighting to stop you and all that stuff. But Oghren? His sexual harrassment is glorified, like it's comedic gold.

It is comedy.  You don't get it or like it, great, move along.  Next thing you know, someone like you is going to post about how hurting people is evil in this game, and he/she finds it offensive.  It doesn't work like that.

I simply made a topic to say that I didn't find it funny. Please forgive me for not making a billion other topics about everything I dislike. Clearly this has to be the biggest issue ever to come up if I made a topic about it. It must be the most important thing in my life, m i riet?! :happy:

If you made a topic to express your viewpoint, that is fine.  Now this is turning into a rant and you are trying to get everyone to see it your way.  If you don't want different opinions maybe you shouldn't have posted it on a public forum.  Next time, write it in your diary or something.
Either you are an idiot or an attention ****.

[ObserverStatus]

The most enthusiastic I saw Sigrun get was a mission "where she would almost surely die"

[Gilsa]

I loved Oghren in Origins (had him with me right after Lothering all the way to the coronation ceremony), but I was a bit disappointed with his lost potential in Awakening. I love his crude humor and I was flat out laughing when he lost his temper about being pulled into the fade again and especially when this undead was walking around with his armor on. But that whole thing with Felsi ... ugh. That story was realistic, but it made all his party-banter oogling be a big turn-off because I'm thinking, "Dude, you have a wife and kid that you walked out on. This isn't as funny anymore."



Someone in this thread pointed out that if you don't do his Felsi quest in origins, then he's not married in Awakenings. Well, then that would change a lot of stuff for me. Those crude comments would go down a lot better if there wasn't a wife and kid in play. Now I'm wondering what Oghren's side quest in Awakening is if Felsi is not in the picture.

[Corephyfish]

bobobo878 wrote...

The most enthusiastic I saw Sigrun get was a mission "where she would almost surely die"

oh good so i'm not the only one lol, maybe I have to play through again or whatever but I never got the chipper 'i'm so happy' vibe.

[Corephyfish]

Gilsa wrote...

Someone in this thread pointed out that if you don't do his Felsi quest in origins, then he's not married in Awakenings. Well, then that would change a lot of stuff for me. Those crude comments would go down a lot better if there wasn't a wife and kid in play. Now I'm wondering what Oghren's side quest in Awakening is if Felsi is not in the picture.

I don't know if that's true or not, I never did the side quest with him for my HNF or got the epilouge about him having a kid and namig it after me, in fact at the end he said he was gonig to stay in Denerim and have a drinking contest with Teagan, yet he was still married and had a child in Awakenings. I don't know maybe it is canon for every character now even if you didnt do his quest in origins.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

AuraofMana wrote...

You knew very well of what I was talking about.  Pretending to not get something is such a weak attempt at dodging.

If not Velanna and Sigrun, then what were you talking about? Real life women in outfits that we haven't even established? I did ask in "what way" you meant.

We haven't established outfits for these hypothetical women who dress like ****s, and I already said I don't want to argue about "real life women and their hypothetical outfits" because this is about Oghren. It feels like I'm arguing with a bunch of Loghain fanboys here. "I LIKE HIM SO EVERYTHING HE DOES IS JUSTIFIED!!  :D"
That may not apply directly to you, but that's what this feels like.

Last time I checked, going half-naked in the wild doesn't offer much protection at all.  If a girl dresses like that, men are going to assume she's a ****.  Last time I checked, ****s weren't on any men's list for respect.  So yes, she deserved it.

She's not half naked. She shows a little bit of cleavage and a little bit of hip. I wouldn't say she dresses liek a ****, not as a wild elf in medieval times. Hell, her outfit is tame even by modern standards.

But this is what I'm talking about. What is or isn't "sl*ty is kind of subjective, so people like you who say "SHE DESERVES TO BE HARRASSED!!!" sound like raving idiots at worst and, again, Loghain fanboys at best.

The game assumes she is wearing her INITIAL robe because the writers felt that robe backed up her character personality.  Stop acting like an idiot.
And apparently you instantly assumed Oghren would comment about someone as old as Wynne.  Quite ironic you would find this offensive.

Oh, the game assumes her outfit does it? These conversations (and the vast, vast majority of the game) doesn't have anything to do with the outfits. Everyone can be stark naked and nothing would change at all. So, not much of a point here.
As for Oghren hitting on Wynne, doesn't he do something like that in the original anyways? I don't recall, so I may be mistaken, but by your logic she's a **** who deserves to be harrassed anyways so if he didn't he should have.

You already are posting something little that annoys you.  It's a great start for you, so go for it.
Oh, good attempt at "you don't seem to have much common sense".  I am not the one going on a forum to complain about some in-game character saying something lewd in a mature, dark fantasy RPG geared toward adults.  Maybe you should understand the meaning of game ratings before you go on a rant.

Ah, this is a good one.
RATED M for Mature (17+)
- Blood and Gore - Sexual harrassment? Nope
- Intense Violence - Sexual harrassment? Nope
- Language - Sexual harrassment? Hmm, maybe, but that's for vulgarity.
- Partial Nudity - Sexual harrassment? Nope
- Sexual Content - Sexual harrassment? Ahh, now maybe that one, but that's an awfully vague term, now isn't it? It says nothing about the flavor of content, just that it's sexual.

But this is all irrelevant. You seem to think that just because the game is rated M that I can't dislike the content that's there. Your argument here is kinda pointless. I never said these things shouldn't ever be in games, I'm saying I thought it was tasteless and over-the-top. Not difficult to comprehend (or so I thought).

It is comedy.  You don't get it or like it, great, move along.  Next thing you know, someone like you is going to post about how hurting people is evil in this game, and he/she finds it offensive.  It doesn't work like that.

Comedy is suggestive, and I said I didn't care for this. You don't like my opinion? Great, move along.
And if someone did complain about the violence, you know what? I wouldn't mind. They can express their opinions, as can I, as can you.

If you made a topic to express your viewpoint, that is fine.  Now this is turning into a rant and you are trying to get everyone to see it your way.  If you don't want different opinions maybe you shouldn't have posted it on a public forum.  Next time, write it in your diary or something.
Either you are an idiot or an attention ****.

It's not a rant. This has turned into a discussion because I felt the desire to address some of your arguments against my case. I do want differing opinions, but I expect people who disagree with me to be able to discuss the matter.

It takes two to argue.

[keepth3beat]

AuraofMana wrote...

Last time I checked, going half-naked in the wild doesn't offer much protection at all.  If a girl dresses like that, men are going to assume she's a ****.  Last time I checked, ****s weren't on any men's list for respect.  So yes, she deserved it.

Wow.  WOW.  Your posts are genuinely upsetting to me, as are the one or two others that have agreed with this general opinion.  Because yes, we're talking about a video game character, but this attitude has to carry over into real life.  Saying a woman deserves any sort of sexual harassment, particularly a woman who is wearing a rather modest robe (the leather armor shows more skin, for chrissakes) is not cool.

What a woman wears has NOTHING to do with whether or not she's going to be harassed.  One of the most persistent guys I've ever met met me when I was wearing a T-shirt (with toon Links) and jeans.  Not very sexy, and yet he seemed to think it was cool to make lewd comments at me.  And from the lewd comments, it really is a slippery slope to sexual assault.  Unfortunately, that's a path I've nearly experienced one too many times.

Am I saying that Oghren is the ONLY reason why I don't like Dragon Age: Awakenings?  Am I saying that his mouth is the bane of my existence and that I'm deeply offended?  Am I saying that this is deeply traumatising?  No, and neither is the topic-starter.  They're merely pointing out that Oghren wasn't *as bad* in Origins as he is now.  And I agree.

I mean, Oghren had great conversations with Wynne about drinking all the time.  That was awesome.  And he has an unnatural obsession with pants, which is amusing.  But I think the writers this time around were way too obsessed with "LOL OGHREN HAS A PEE PEE AND WANTS TO USE IT A LOT" and so his dialog suffered for it.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

slydfoxxy wrote...

oh good so i'm not the only one lol, maybe I have to play through again or whatever but I never got the chipper 'i'm so happy' vibe.

It's just her general disposition, most notable in party interactions.

Take her to the Amaranthine markets by the weaponsmith stall and watch the scene where she gets all bubbly over the sparkly stuff, or give her the spyglass gift and just listen to her. She's so perky.

One scene was her telling Velanna that she was the first elf she ever met, and that Vel's actions would directly influence how she saw the elven race... and then she says "forever!" in a really cute tone.

There was another one where she was discussing something dark with Justice and at the end she says "happy to help!" in a really cheerful tone.

Part of the appeal is that she's so chipper over the darkest things. It's kind of dark humor.

[ObserverStatus]

I didn't like it how he got all defensive when I told him that the demon pants would lay eggs in his eye sockets.

[hardvice]

I really think you're missing the point of how his character has evolved in Awakening: he's pathetic. He's completely out of control, and he's out to ruin his life. There were hints of this during Origins, but it's really come to fruition in Awakening. Is it pleasant to behold? Of course not. But the more time you spend with him and the farther you get into his story, it becomes pretty apparent that he is Not At All Well.



I really don't think his drunk schtick is being played for comedy in Awakening like it was in Origins. It's being played for pathos. He says horrible things. He's barely coherent. He's mean rather than playful. He's actually falling-down-drunk during many of your conversations, and behind it all there's a lot of barely concealed pain about his choices and his family and his fears.



I'm finding him to be one of the most interesting characters to interact with. No, he's not fun to have around, but I'm really impressed with the writers for turning him into something other than straight-up comic relief.

[Kryyptehk]

hardvice wrote...

I really think you're missing the point of how his character has evolved in Awakening: he's pathetic. He's completely out of control, and he's out to ruin his life. There were hints of this during Origins, but it's really come to fruition in Awakening. Is it pleasant to behold? Of course not. But the more time you spend with him and the farther you get into his story, it becomes pretty apparent that he is Not At All Well.

I really don't think his drunk schtick is being played for comedy in Awakening like it was in Origins. It's being played for pathos. He says horrible things. He's barely coherent. He's mean rather than playful. He's actually falling-down-drunk during many of your conversations, and behind it all there's a lot of barely concealed pain about his choices and his family and his fears.

I'm finding him to be one of the most interesting characters to interact with. No, he's not fun to have around, but I'm really impressed with the writers for turning him into something other than straight-up comic relief.

I agree, though I don't really like it. When I heard about him an Felsi getting together, I was happy. I thought I'd come into Awakening seeing a man who was a proud father, mostly sober and just over-all better. Not changed, I expected that he'd still drink and act perverse but not at the level they showed in Awakening.

It's literally like his life is falling apart, and that is a tragic thing to watch. I don't like it, not after I set him up with Felsi thinking she would help him heal after Branka. Obviously that failed, but if they were going to put that in a game, they should have waited until the sequel so that you could fully expand upon it. Instead, he potentially dies a worthless drunk and a terrible husband and father.

[elearon1]

>>it really is a slippery slope to sexual assault.<<



Not saying you're wrong or lying here, but this kind of statement always puts me on the defensive because I have seen and heard too many women claim "I was sexually assaulted!" or "he almost raped me!" when all a guy did was leer at her a little or make an off color comment. Sure the guy is being a jerk, but there is being irritated and then taking it way too far.



Aside from the fact that this perpetuates the "women as victims" image and the "all men are rapists waiting to happen" argument, this sort of thing bothers me because by overreacting like this one is actually belittling the trauma people whom have been raped and assaulted actually go through; and *yes* I do know people whom these things have happened to ... but I've also seen the people who claim they were nearly raped because a guy was nice to them in passing.

[stylepoints]

Just thought I'd pop this in here. If you really hate him that much turn anders into an arcane warrior tank. Problem solved.

[Darkkyn46]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

That just makes it sound like they're proud of what they made him, and that's what I was really taking issue with. But he's not a very well-crafted character imo even from a technical standpoint, so, yeah.

If their intent was to create a character that evoked interest, that people would talk about one way or another, then it's a masterfully crafted character.

[Gaudion]

Darkkyn46 wrote...

If their intent was to create a character that evoked interest, that people would talk about one way or another, then it's a masterfully crafted character.

There is a difference between a character evoking interest and a character prompting discussion because of a failure to evoke interest. One is a masterfully crafted character. One is not.

Oghren is the latter. He's a one-dimensional automaton programmed to dispense fifth-grade toilet humor. As a response to everything. If that appeals to you, great. I wish I could be that easily amused. I'm not saying Oghren doesn't make me laugh occasionally, but I can get the maximum out of him by simply reading his dialogues on the wiki. There's nothing else to him. No deeper... well, anything to discover. No reason to adventure with him.

Good characters are episodes of House. Bad characters are episodes of Lost. Oghren is an episode of Two-and-a-Half Men.

[Noir201]

Oghren a cliche dwarf, who been made more worse for the sake of "humour"

Hell most of the dwarfs in orzammar have more character and interest then the fuzzy red stain.

So i agree with everything Mystranna said.

[Kohaku]

Noir201 wrote...

Oghren a cliche dwarf, who been made more worse for the sake of "humour"
Hell most of the dwarfs in orzammar have more character and interest then the fuzzy red stain.
So i agree with everything Mystranna said.

Anders: Like moths to a flame. Women like it when men show affection for small, fuzzy, defenseless beings. Like you.

Modifié par Kerridan Kaiba, 18 mars 2010 - 05:47 .

[Noir201]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Noir201 wrote...

Oghren a cliche dwarf, who been made more worse for the sake of "humour"
Hell most of the dwarfs in orzammar have more character and interest then the fuzzy red stain.
So i agree with everything Mystranna said.

Anders: Like moths to a flame. Women like it when men show affection for small, fuzzy, defenseless beings. Like you.

Hehe

[Kohaku]

Thought you'd like that.

[Darkkyn46]

Maybe I just have a different level of expectation.  I go to see a Terminator-type movie and then complain about the acting quality.  I don't look for superior depth of character and masterful writing in a video game.  Just seems like it would be rare to find either in those genres.  Who would be the character in DA that would fill that expectation?  Alistair is about the neediest "warrior" I've ever encountered in these types of stories.  Wynne is a sanctimonious, preachy shrew who if she couldn't heal would never have left her tent.  Zevran?  An assassin who comes from an abusive and checkered background, that's never been done before.  Sigrun is Dagna with a cool helmet and an axe.  Nobody should be that perky when every moment is a march toward your own violent death.

Considering what know about Oghren I think his behavior is about what I would expect from him.  You get a glimpse of it at the celebration in Origins when he refers to Tegan as a pot-bellied son of a ****.  Yes, I would have expected 5th grade toilet humor, and near nonstop belching and farting from Oghren.  When I had him in Origins with Wynne he hit on her constantly.  No surprise here.

In Awakening everything about being a Warden is handled in such a cavalier fashion, I think that automatically detracts from any real depth you can get out of your companions.  They've turned the Joining into a frat house chugging contest.

Gaudion wrote...

Darkkyn46 wrote...

If their intent was to create a character that evoked interest, that people would talk about one way or another, then it's a masterfully crafted character.

There is a difference between a character evoking interest and a character prompting discussion because of a failure to evoke interest. One is a masterfully crafted character. One is not.

Oghren is the latter. He's a one-dimensional automaton programmed to dispense fifth-grade toilet humor. As a response to everything. If that appeals to you, great. I wish I could be that easily amused. I'm not saying Oghren doesn't make me laugh occasionally, but I can get the maximum out of him by simply reading his dialogues on the wiki. There's nothing else to him. No deeper... well, anything to discover. No reason to adventure with him.

Good characters are episodes of House. Bad characters are episodes of Lost. Oghren is an episode of Two-and-a-Half Men.

[Anyroad2]

I agree that Oghren was over the top this time around most of the time. I dont hold it against anyone though. Hes written well for what I hope they were meaning to do with his character.



Only wish that they would have let us have another warrior option. I may be able to tolerate him, but I cant see a few of my Wardens being able to stay in his company for very long if at all. =|