132 réponses à ce sujet

[Richieee]

I got Oghren late in origins and never used himt so I decided I was going to use him in my party in Awakening and I think that most of his banter is rather funny. What I don't understand is why people are so angry over a character and what he says....

[krystalevenstar]

I think people jare just taking this waaay too seriously. I'm guessing 95% of the people playing this game thought that Oghren was -hilarious-, because that's what the writers were going for. I was in stitches at most of the stuff he said, and I really doubt that his dialogue bothered the majority of people playing the game.

[Blackbaron15]

Its his personality. He is portrayed as a miserable drunkard as is Cailen is portrayed as a Young noble with his head in the clouds.

Bioware trys to portray as many personalitys in thier games as possible. Gamers accept different personalities, For example I like Oghren because he is a warrior who is hated,disrespected,and drunk but he does this because he is miserable. While as I may hate Alistar because he is a coward and complains on just about every little misfortune that happens apon them.

Its the gamers opinion on who he/she likes to be honest with you.

[SonvarTheMighty]

Oghren's conversations in this game have been very funny to me so far. Especially when asked about getting paid. None of his behavior is really all that unexpected especially with his conversation with Morrigan and Leliana from the main game. Only part I dislike is that Oghren is the only warrior you start with and he isn't built for being a tank which I wouldn't expect but makes me more upset Mhari dies at the Joining.

[Hostetler]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Deathstyk85 wrote...

i dont think he was saying "she deserves it" more of "its kinda to be expected" as dave chapel once said "if i wear a cops uniform, people think im a cop, your wearing a hookers uniform, im gonna think your a hooker"
and also oghren does have a wife, but when she shows up, she throws him out and pretty much says theyll get along on their own. they break up, but he writes and visits the kid. oghrens not really a one woman man, and like most men who are recently "freed up" so to speak, he wants to nail everything in sight lol.

Oghren said all those things in my game before Felsi's rant scene.

And that's the second time people have brought up the "cop uniform", and while I understand what's being said and where it came from, it is not the same. Cops have actual, standard uniforms. What the hell is a "hooker uniform"? Who is to say what level of skimp = hooker. Hell, who is to go so far as to even say that skimp = hooker. It may be that specific analogy, but it's stupid.

okie doke - here we go -


If a skank is wearing a half shirt with no Bra while having a rack of c cup or above, wearing shorts that have the lower globes of thier butts out, while having the button and half the zipper undone then 1. I WILL LOOK AT HER - I am a man, I do not suscribe to the wussification of today's male's, what some would call metrosexual - it's the reason I had Allistair killed. I recently worked for a man, who upon me asking if he wanted to watch a ballgame and have some brews, told me he could.t because he needed to have a manicure and a wax, upon which I started to joke about his "man card" and was shocked to find out that about 5 others do the same regularly.

and 2 - your damn right I will make comments - she may not be targeting me with her apparel but she damn well is using her body and sexuality to target someone.

so in closing - you dress like cheap trash I will treat you like cheap trash.

[Gold Dragon]

Oghren likes pushing people's buttons. He was this way in Origins, he was this way in Awakening.



From the sounds of things, Oghren has found the OP's buttons, and begun slamming them.



My most hilarious moment with the drunken Dwarf: First meeting with Oghren. I said (playing as Elf Female with Mage powers): Good to see you again, Oghren. Oghren (paraphrased): YEAH!! Let's go kick some Darkspawn [BEEP!!!] Mhairi and Anders: (With jaws dropping, and a bit paraphrased) Commander? Are you out of your mind?!? (One of them actually said something to that effect)

[Blindside002]

Hostetler wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Deathstyk85 wrote...

i dont think he was saying "she deserves it" more of "its kinda to be expected" as dave chapel once said "if i wear a cops uniform, people think im a cop, your wearing a hookers uniform, im gonna think your a hooker"
and also oghren does have a wife, but when she shows up, she throws him out and pretty much says theyll get along on their own. they break up, but he writes and visits the kid. oghrens not really a one woman man, and like most men who are recently "freed up" so to speak, he wants to nail everything in sight lol.

Oghren said all those things in my game before Felsi's rant scene.

And that's the second time people have brought up the "cop uniform", and while I understand what's being said and where it came from, it is not the same. Cops have actual, standard uniforms. What the hell is a "hooker uniform"? Who is to say what level of skimp = hooker. Hell, who is to go so far as to even say that skimp = hooker. It may be that specific analogy, but it's stupid.

okie doke - here we go -


If a skank is wearing a half shirt with no Bra while having a rack of c cup or above, wearing shorts that have the lower globes of thier butts out, while having the button and half the zipper undone then 1. I WILL LOOK AT HER - I am a man, I do not suscribe to the wussification of today's male's, what some would call metrosexual - it's the reason I had Allistair killed. I recently worked for a man, who upon me asking if he wanted to watch a ballgame and have some brews, told me he could.t because he needed to have a manicure and a wax, upon which I started to joke about his "man card" and was shocked to find out that about 5 others do the same regularly.

and 2 - your damn right I will make comments - she may not be targeting me with her apparel but she damn well is using her body and sexuality to target someone.

so in closing - you dress like cheap trash I will treat you like cheap trash.

While I don't agree with the idea that women can wear whatever they want and expect not to get hit on, I completely disagree with almost everything you just said. You are a closed minded person that needs to stop making it seem that just because someone doesn't subscribe to the butch male egomainiac that sees the world only through his own narrow scope and believes that anyone different than his own opinion is wrong. I don't enjoy watching sports because I feel that if you love sports so much stop being a fat a** and go play them. I'm not a fan of beer because I don't like the taste but I prefer other drink and I honestly don't give a S**t if you think that I'm not a man because I can enjoy watching or reading something about a romance and enjoy it.

Finally just because you think someone is dressed trash doesn't give you ANY right to treat ANYONE like trash, I don't give a s**t who you are.

[SobrietyTest]

a thread about sexual harrasment by a girl with "bards do it beter" as their sig.....I hope im not the only one who see's the clasic irony here

[Gold Dragon]

Don't worry. You aren't.

[Blindside002]

HK74 wrote...


You're both crazy and you're both wrong.
Blindside; You're bashing someone based on assumption and defending yourself against an attack which you didn't receive. Bonus points for multi-tasking, but we have to take the points away immediately because you're beating up a straw-man. Besides which, neither a closed mind nor a narrow scope are definitively "bad" things, mount a proper argument!

Hostetler; While your views on the pussification of the male population of the planet can only be agreed with, you must be aware that looks are no basis for judging women - A well-dressed woman may have the morals of an alley-cat, while skimpily dressed tart may have the sexual prowess of a boiled vegetable and a social life to match. In the end it's irrelevant - they're both women after all so I don't know why you'd be paying attention to either of them.

After reading it again, you are right, I didn't present my arguement well (although I wouldn't call it an arguement, more of a lashing out at an opinion other than my own and therefore becoming hypocritcal in my post). Rather the point I was trying to get across was not rather I didn't, to a degree, agree with the main idea, but rather the part where he stated the wussification of man as I've ran into that before and pushed a button for me. My post basically is summed up as I don't think that just because someone acts differently than what is considered a stereotypical male that they are automatically a wuss.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

You do realize that Oghren is supposed to be a completely uncouth drunk right? That part of the thing. And he hasn't gotten worse. You should have seen what he was saying to Leliana and Wynne in the first game. Hell, only Morrigan took him to task of all the chics in Origins.



So yea, he is a father now but if you notice Felsi and he kinda have a falling out so he just focuses on being a father. He isn't meant to be perfect comedy gold and to be honest, I find his perversion to be honest. It isn't PC and it is consistent with the character. Being a pig is what he is.



So yea, you're falling short here and Justice is a damn good tank if you want another warrior. Personally, I found making Anders into an Arcane Warrior/BattleMage/Spirit Healer to be great. Plenty of options.



Those wanting to opt out of Oghren early, I'd suggest going for Sigrun. Give her the Legion of the Dead armor you probably still have from Origins with some decent daggers and she will do great. Just have to spec her out right.

[pharos_gryphon]

Firstly, it should be noted that if you do the Blackmarsh as your first quest zone, you can replace him with another plate wearer. Just FYI for those who haven't played it yet and/or don't like Oghren.



As to the dwarf himself, yes, he's a good deal more the drunken lout than he was in Origins, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. It's like various comedians such as on that Blue Collar Comedy Tour (Larry the Cable Guy, etc). While meeting someone who acts the way described would be cringe worthy in real life, it's amusing to hear about from a personal distance. I took Oghren around occasionally not because I condoned the behavior, but because I found it amusing how different party members reacted to him. The banter between he and Anders was some of the funniest in the game. It's also worth noting that him being over the top drew attention away and evened out the others. A party of all proper and serious and brooding characters would quickly seem a mite bit melodramatic.

[Legbiter]

Oghren's very well written as a tragic drunk who has these massive emotional issues. Sheryl Chee did an outstanding job on him and the characters VA wrung every drop of pathos out of the lines handed to him. Why the hell did I care so much about Oghren and Felsi's ongoing trainwreck? Bah.

[CerebusAlteri]

poor oghren so much hate, guys had a rough life and covers it up with crass humor and booze, all the while he still manages to kick darkspawn behind.

[HowlingSiren]

Mystranna, I think you should create a poll: is Oghren funny in Awakening?

He was relatively funny to me in Origins, but I know how I'd vote. To quote Yahtzee: "In short, no. In long: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" But I'm curious as to where the majority lies.

[errant_knight]

I agree with the OP, and I liked Oghren in Origins. He was...what he was, but he also showed depth. He had intense loyalty to Branka, even though their marriage had all but ended prior to her journey to the dark roads. He was willing to make a laughing stock out of himself trying to get someone to go after her. He genuinely seemed to care about Felsi, even if his wooing technique was a tad crude. He had interesting observations to make as we travelled.

Given that the expansion takes place less than a year after Origins, he must have left shortly after Felsi gave birth--not just moved out, or to another city, but to join an organization to which joining is a death sentence. Now, maybe there's more to it, I could never get him to open up about it, but I can't find any possible circumstances where that could be considered good.

Then we have his comments and behavior. He's definitely worse than he was in Origins. It's less funny and more crude. He's also more beligerent. I was quite baffled as to why they pushed it so far, really, as I did find him funny in Origins. I thought we'd see more of the guy who said those great things before the battle with the archdemon, not less--or none. I ended up using him very rarely, when I'd initially planned on having him in my party most of the time.

[Efesell]

I think it's funny, yes. So maybe I'm just terrible.



Then again, it's just a silly drunken dwarf in a video game.

[WuWeiWu]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Darkkyn46 wrote...
I would.  I worked at a dance club for a number of years and it would amaze me how "shocked" some women would get when they received comments or stares from men.  Yes, that is what they wanted when selecting that outfit.  Maybe not from the guy they got it from but that's irrelevant.  Women should know that revealing or provactive clothing is not a laser guided smart bomb.  Sometimes you're aiming for the doctor in the Benz but collateral damage will also hit the toothless bum waiting for the bus.  That's the risk.  Unwanted physical contact is inexcusable no matter what a woman wears, but drawing attention?  Kind of the risk you take.

Comments like a suggestive "nice outfit" or something are one thing.

Telling a woman that her butt is too bony to provide adequate cushion is disgusting no matter what she was wearing.

That whole argument is stupid. A woman can wear whatever she wants; it doesn't mean she can be sexually harrassed. Have a little more class.

Saying "that's the risk" or something like "that's just how men are!" = pathetic excuses for disgusting behavior.

I tried to read that with a straight face. I find the irony in the statement(s) above pure gold.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Good lord, this is so stupid.

I'm
not looking to get into an argument about real life women and what they
may or may not wear because it obviously depends on the outfit being
worn and the maturity level of the hecklers.

You got that a bit backwards, hun. I really do enjoy this, perhaps a bit too much.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I'd disagree, but this isn't really about sexism, so what do you want?

So uh... the title of this thread was for funsies?

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Not a big fan of logic. huh?

...It means it annoyed me enough to comment and discuss on the forums. I'm not on a soapbox; I don't have an agenda apart from letting people know that I was annoyed...

This is too easy. A
discussion implies an acknowledgement of a second party with individual
arguments; you only acknowledge one party (The 'Opposing Party') and
ignore its arguments.

You clearly have an agenda. Everybody
does. But especially you, and if you were content to inform people of
your annoyedness, you would have let it be done with the OP. Let's not
kid anybody here.

It would also be more appropriate to label 'your' logic as 'circular logic'.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

His sexual harrassment is glorified, like it's comedic gold.

That's pretty much because it is comedic gold.
Now, by itself his type of humour can become a little redundant. I,
personally, loved the fact that the farther along I got in the story
and in his approval* the more over-the-top he became.

But the reason that this is comedic gold is because, and forgive me this generalization, of people like you who respond to it in this way. I, and others, subsist off these blatantly misguided responses.

*I think the devs tried a different take with the approval rating this go-around. Instead of a long arduous journey to adoring friendship or everlasting love as reported by a simple slider, you actually had back and forth like any relationship. Something, for example, Oghren disapproves of for -6 could lead him to something that increases his loyalty by ~+20.

Modifié par WuWeiWu, 22 mars 2010 - 02:34 .

[Ceridraen]

I'm finding him far more annoying in this one than he was in Origins. He stays in the Keep.

[Emerald Melios]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

This is about Oghren.

He was... okay in the core game. Yeah, he was crude and mildly disgusting, but WTH happened? He's way over the top in this expansion. It's like the writers are trying to appeal to the 12 year old "haha fart joke" crowd. >_<

He's married with a kid, and he's trying to nail every girl in my party, telling me about his rashes, telling Velanna her bony butt isn't suitable enough as a "cushion" and constantly asks for sex from Sigrun.

And since the only decent warrior I've seen in the game so far died about 20 minutes in, I'm practically stuck with him if I want a warrior's presence at all.

Do people really think this stuff is cool or funny? It's disgusting. <_<

Really.

It was rather annoying and overdone in Awakening. Though I do wonder: why aren't there ever any lecherous female characters like that?

[Efesell]

I dunno but Sigrun role reverses it on him and the results are great.

[Palathas]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

This is about Oghren.

He was... okay in the core game. Yeah, he was crude and mildly disgusting, but WTH happened? He's way over the top in this expansion. It's like the writers are trying to appeal to the 12 year old "haha fart joke" crowd. >_<

He's married with a kid, and he's trying to nail every girl in my party, telling me about his rashes, telling Velanna her bony butt isn't suitable enough as a "cushion" and constantly asks for sex from Sigrun.

And since the only decent warrior I've seen in the game so far died about 20 minutes in, I'm practically stuck with him if I want a warrior's presence at all.

Do people really think this stuff is cool or funny? It's disgusting. <_<

Really.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but if you stick Sigrun in the Hirol's Defence armour she's holds her own very well. I made her a Duelist, Legionnaire Scout, Shadow and she slaughters things alone, with my Battle Mage, my sword and board Warrior and my Assassin, Duelist, Shadow Rogue. No Oghren required in the making of this awesomeness.

Edit: Oh I forgot to mention... It's good to see something that's not totally PC, regardless of which way it went. In this world of total and utter PC sanitation it's much like sugar free drinks. Yeah, they work and yeah they don't taste too bad but there's just something missing and not quite right about it all. It's is a mature game and it does fit the character so it's not totally gratuitous.

Modifié par Palathas, 22 mars 2010 - 02:41 .

[WuWeiWu]

Gaudion wrote...


There is a difference between a character evoking interest and a character prompting discussion because of a failure to evoke interest. One is a masterfully crafted character. One is not.*

...He's a one-dimensional automaton programmed to dispense fifth-grade toilet humor. As a response to everything. If that appeals to you, great. I wish I could be that easily amused. I'm not saying Oghren doesn't make me laugh occasionally, but I can get the maximum out of him by simply reading his dialogues on the wiki. There's nothing else to him. No deeper... well, anything to discover. No reason to adventure with him.

I'm assuming some familiarity here, but here goes. Using one of your examples, characters in LOST are, arguably and in my opinion, one-step creations. They have some clearly defined problems with obvious fallouts and plot directions that move along from show to show in a linear manner and nothing more.

As an aside, I thought that the first season was fairly brilliant but that the ensuing seasons shouldn't have been made.

However, with the inclusion of other characters, story arcs, and timelines, these LOST characters become two-step creations. More dynamic, where the first and obvious choice is not always the correct one and thus the non-obvious choice is more often the right one.

This is where your thoughts reside at the moment, in a two-step world. You think that, because Oghren is a one-step character, he is somehow inferior to any two-step character.

In my opinion, reinforced with dialogue experienced throughout Origins and Awakening, Oghren is a three-step character where both the obvious and non-obvious choices are given equal weight and mired together. Also in my opinion, I thought this dire mire was done quite artfully so.

This is why the fanbase has such a varied response to Oghren, because whether or not this was intended, he his a complex character with a simple facade. And, as is quite apparant in this instance, it is most easiest to attack an arguments (read: characters) weakest point, and ignore the strong ones.

*Whether the character is masterfully conceived from the start or venerated through feedback it matters not, both are crafted with an eye of an adept craftsman.

Though, you would be correct in saying that the craftsman in question could be two very different persons, depending on the connotation.

SobrietyTest wrote...

a thread about sexual harrasment by
a girl with "bards do it beter" as their sig.....I hope im not the only
one who see's the clasic irony here

You are not alone.

Modifié par WuWeiWu, 22 mars 2010 - 03:00 .

[Thalorin1919]

Have to agree as a guy. I mean....I thought he was funny in Origins. But he was a bit over the top. He is constantly saying stuff to woman that would get you in trouble real life.



But I guess we have to look at it from there point of view. There is no such thing as sexual harassment...is there?