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[Jax Sparrow]

When Mhairi was a child, she was enraptured by tales of kings and nobles. All she wanted was to be like them, to fight for what she believed.   Betrothed to a trader when she turned 16, she saw the life that lay ahead of her and enlisted in the army instead.   Her fierce loyalty and devotion to Ferelden earned her the love and respect of her commanders and brothers-in-arms.   King Cailan's betrayal and death hit Mhairi hard, and when she learned of the two Grey Wardens who quelled the Blight almost single-handedly, she vowed to serve the Wardens.   When the call came for volunteers to help rebuild the order at Vigil's Keep, Mhairi jumped at the chance to join.

This fraternity is focused on hopefully supporting positively influence BioWare to resurrect Mhairi in a future DLC.   We feel that the character, and her personality, offers such a unique asset to the Grey Wardens that she deserves to at least have a chance to survive the joining.   We believe that there are other, and maybe easier, ways to accomplish what the writers wanted with her death.  As stated, our society is focused on positive words and action;  Versus, negative criticism that serves no real purpose but to feed itself.

http://social.bioware.com/group/1719/

Below is another possible solution to the problem of still having tragedy with the joining ritual.

Sardonii wrote...

If player is a rogue -> Nathaniel dies in the joining.
If player is a mage -> Anders dies in the joining.
If player is a warrior -> Mihari dies in the joining.

Gruesome beginning over with at the start with the liability of the joining and re-playability exists to get to know one other character from all three class roles....

Jax Sparrow wrote... [1]
@ Taine : And, who is to say they aren't already working on a DLC that gives us the option to keep Mhairi alive? And, yes we are "dealing with it", though we may be dealing with it in a way you are unfamiliar with. We are being positive and envisioning a future DLC we want. Instead of whining, and ß*τ<╫, about what already is.

David Gaider wrote... [2]

WilliamShatner wrote...DA:O:A sold 130,000 copies across both 360 and PS3 in its first week.

Comparatively DA:O sold 320,000 on 360 alone in its first week.

Hopefully all sales are as poor as the consoles suggest and will force BioWare not to be so half-assed when it comes to future follow-ups.

Err... not to burst your bubble or anything, but if those sales figures are true (I haven't seen any, myself) then they are excellent. The sales for expansions are traditionally much, much lower than the sales of the original game... hence why expansions have smaller teams working on them and are done in less time. If the sales bar you're holding it to is the original game, it's not the same bar we're using. Sorry.

@ worksa8 : [3] Many of us are just really busy -- I'm eyeballs-deep in my next project, which means I just don't have much time to come here, period. As for the people whose job it is to come here, many of them are collecting info rather than posting. So it doesn't mean threads aren't being looked at, if you're wondering -- though clearly we can't look at everything.

This suggests that BioWare is aware of what we want and maybe an announcement is forth coming regarding a major DLC for the expansion.  Then again, maybe not, but I for one would much rather think about what I want and be happy even if I am wrong;  Than to be just another Chicken Little on the forums whining about what already is and being all doom and gloom.

Modifié par Jax Sparrow, 28 mars 2010 - 06:58 .

[Default137]

First Question.



Her death was meant to show that not everyone can survive the Joining, and to provide an emotional hit that couldn't be done if she was a redshirt, or was never put on the Companion page, so, how could you relay those feelings without having her or another companion die?

[Edge32]

Default137 wrote...

First Question.

Her death was meant to show that not everyone can survive the Joining, and to provide an emotional hit that couldn't be done if she was a redshirt, or was never put on the Companion page, so, how could you relay those feelings without having her or another companion die?

This is an expansion, we were already shown that not everyone can survive the Joining in the main game and it was done *much* more effectively. For me, there wasn't really an emotional hit, because she really wasn't around long enough to care about her. If they really wanted to convey the message (which they already conveyed the first time around) that anyone could die, and have an emotional impact, they should have killed Oghren. That would have been a statement. The way Mhairi was handled was just, 'meh'...

[xzxzxz701]

She died, let her stay dead and stop pestering Bioware to bring her back.

[Noir201]

Ok this has to stop now with all these threads, kind of looks stupid now...

[Kimarous]

Seriously... why are people getting so worked up over this? I don't recall Daveth getting this kind of treatment.

[Robalicious_13]

Yeah it seems dumb.

Dragon age is a dark and gritty RPG game. If people don't die, and dire descions/ sacrifices arn't made ( attached to story or not) it is no longer a "dark" game. With the good comes the bad.

Go play hello kitty island adventure or w/e it is if you want fun happy things.

Modifié par Robalicious_13, 17 mars 2010 - 11:06 .

[Oronduil]

Kimarous wrote...

Seriously... why are people getting so worked up over this? I don't recall Daveth getting this kind of treatment.

Yeah but to be fair, Daveth was never announced as a party NPC, whereas Mhairi was.

[Leon Elsa]

Leon approves +100. They gotta bring her back.

[Envor44]

And...here we go again...

[Seblin]

She is dead, too bad. She was not Grey Warden material clearly.



If Bioware is going to resurrect anyone it needs to be Nihlus from Mass Effect 1.

[trh5001]

Oronduil wrote...

Kimarous wrote...

Seriously... why are people getting so worked up over this? I don't recall Daveth getting this kind of treatment.

Yeah but to be fair, Daveth was never announced as a party NPC, whereas Mhairi was.

She was a party NPC it isn't Biowares fault YOU made an assumption about her being around longer than she was.  They never claimed she was going to survive the joining, you assumed she would.  I don't see how the blame can rest anywhere but squarely on your shoulders.

[Jax Sparrow]

@ Default137 : You can achieve emotional connection through visual and audio effects besides writing. Anyone buying the expansion after now already knows she gets killed so this million dollar advertising prank was done just for the people who preorder? Gee don't I feel special...

@ xzxzxz701 & Noir201 : I believe I was rather clear in the desire for positive and constructive comments if at all. Yet you feel the need it is necessary for me to conform to your desires? Don't hold your breath.  This thread is for those who actually do agree with the Original Post {O.P.}

@ Kimarous, Robalicious_13, & Seblin : As others have repeatedly stated, Daveth and Jory were never billed as team members. Ultimately, if you choose not to agree then that is your choice. This thread was designed for people who do agree... moving on.

@ Envor44 : There is another Mhairi group somewhere? I failed to find it; care to point it out? Or are you seeing/reading what you want/expect to?

@ trh5001 : Yes we expected an announced team member would be around longer than the first chapter; At least, I accept full responsibility for such an audacious expectation.   Yet again, this thread is for those who do agree with the O.P.  If you choose to not agree then please move on.

@ Leon Elsa : Thank you very much :happy:

[hardvice]

I think people are in love with the idea of the character more than the actual character. The character as she exists is a total redshirt. It's kind of surprising she even had a name; aside from her codex entry, she's on par, development-wise, with the no-name schlubs who accompany you and Alistair into the Tower of Ishal. Really, Daveth and Jory were more developed as characters.

[Hyper Cutter]

Default137 wrote...

First Question.

Her death was meant to show that not everyone can survive the Joining, and to provide an emotional hit that couldn't be done if she was a redshirt, or was never put on the Companion page, so, how could you relay those feelings without having her or another companion die?

You don't need to show that the Joining can kill you, for starters, both you the player and you the Warden already know this.

trh5001 wrote...

She was a party NPC it isn't Biowares
fault YOU made an assumption about her being around longer than she
was.

Bioware announced her  as if she were a real party member and it's
somehow our fault for believing them?

hardvice wrote...

I think people are in love with the idea
of the character more than the actual character.

Bioware: You want this female warrior who's also "normal" personality-wise?
Us: Sure, we'll have it
Bioware: *crush*
Us:
Bioware: trollface.jpg

Modifié par Hyper Cutter, 18 mars 2010 - 06:04 .

[Deathstyk85]

Oronduil wrote...

Kimarous wrote...

Seriously... why are people getting so worked up over this? I don't recall Daveth getting this kind of treatment.

Yeah but to be fair, Daveth was never announced as a party NPC, whereas Mhairi was.

this exactly.
it wouldnt have been a big deal if they didnt announce her as a companion, people feel like they got jipped.
and like its been said, they may have been trying to go for the whole, emotional impact thing, but they did it very poorly. if they wanted to do that, they should have had her be a companion for a good half of the game atleast and then die, then you would have gotten to love or hate her as a companion and it would have meant something.
i honostly fealt the whole expansion was very rushed. it seemed so half baked.

[Sanguinerin]

To those who say she died for the emotional impact, how can you really say that?

Mhairi drank from the chalice, fell down, was pronounced dead, the seneschal said something to the effect of "Poor Mhairi" and then the game moved on. The Joining was far less elaborate in Awakening. In Origins, it was extremely dramatic.

Did I like the idea of her character? Very much. Was I emotionally invested in her character at all? Not at all. I wanted to use her in the game beforehand but I barely got to know her. If there was to be a statement made from the Joining about not everyone surviving, I agree with statements such as Oghren should have died (not just because I was never a fan of his) or a character's Joining should have been put off till further in the game and then they die. That way you actually get to know and understand the character and then they end up not making it.

I remember something before Awakening saying something to the effect of, "Be careful who you put through the Joining." Now, I have all of the party characters and they all survived, so that's great. A real surprise would be evaluating the party characters before their Joining. Duncan went looking for skilled recruits, why shouldn't the new commander? If you could say to a party member, "I don't believe you have what it takes to be a Grey Warden," and spare them from the Joining or put them through it and they perish since the evaluation went poorly on your part, that would also be an interesting spin.

I really hoped that they would play off that "Be careful who you put through the Joining." Perhaps I've just not gotten far enough into the game for that, but I'm currently ***spoiler*** saving Amaranthine and I don't see it happening.

I'm not going to complain that Mhairi died. I just believe that if they were going for an emotional hit or realism, getting to know her first would have been much more dramatic. To anyone who played FFVII, Aerith is a well-remembered character whose death was quite dramatic in game and out. I'm not saying Mhairi's character had to be that intense and I know that BioWare does not make FFVII but I wanted to provide a known example of what it seems like most people are saying Mhairi's death symbolized.

The Joining felt rushed and unimportant. Despite Mhairi's death there still wasn't fear. It was more just a moment of, "Oh, someone I won't be using anymore for the rest of the game." (As a further tangent, I do like Awakening but the first part all-together felt rushed. The further along I got in the game though, I did warm up to it much more.)

To get a little bit more on-topic, Jax Sparrow, I do think that would be interesting. A DLC to get a little background on her character, perhaps? She is very dead from the Awakening stand-point and I don't see her making a physical return unless the DLC went back in time, but I'd be all for learning more about her character. Did she have family? Could you tell them that she didn't make it? The same way Alistair wanted to remember Duncan, perhaps DLC involving remembering those who didn't or don't make it? I don't know how combat heavy it could be but there certainly are promises for informational wealth.

Modifié par HallowedWarden, 18 mars 2010 - 07:07 .

[Envor44]

@Jax Sparrow: Not really...i'm just getting sick of something pointless.

[JRidden]

well even the duncan's ogre could be resurrect that easily, i don't see any point why mhairi can't
For those think she is a redshirt and can die whatever cos of Dragon age is a "dark fantasy" that dying is a normal thing.... how about an idea that when you are travelling through world map, you got random encounter (60%--90% possibility)that you were ambushed by the darkspawn and your party all certain death with the enemy's rock falling tactics....it's dark fantasy for you, right? So you are always prepared for death as you are not in hello kittyland?
i'm sure you'll smash your/computer/console even though you can use your save/load method to get away from the rock fall

Modifié par JRidden, 18 mars 2010 - 08:56 .

[Jax Sparrow]

@ Envor44 :  So what is the point of your recent post?  To tell me how pointless you think my O.P. is?  greeeaaat thanks for sharing... I would ask you to move on but you seem to refuse to listen.

@ HallowedWarden :  BioWare's has an established precedence of treating DLCs of Mass Effect and Dragon Age as occurring at the same time.  Case in point both the Warden's Keep and Return to Ostagar occur while you are saving Ferelden and quelling the Blight.  Only the Expansion "Awakenings" occur after the epilogue of the first game.

     A Mhairi DLC could add content and at least give us a way for her to survive the joining;  Maybe they could even do a complete 180 and say she survives 100% of the time.  The additional content in the DLC, would give us more information about the character and quests regarding her.  How much content, would depend upon how big they would want the DLC to be.  I think there is a whole lot of potential with what they have so far and maybe they are already working on it.  I say that because it seems exceptionally broken for them to waste money on advertising a companion just to have her die withing the first Chapter.  That is why I hope they are already working on such a DLC.

@ hardvice :  This is exactly why the group exists, to promote the idea of developing Mhairi character further to BioWare.  Yet, this is also why we feel so wronged, because we were told we would have her as a companion... and we don't.  Sorry, but dieing within the first Chapter negates companion status;  Just like, neither Daveth or Jory are a 'companion'.

[Sanguinerin]

The only thing you have to take into account with a Mhairi DLC though is that it would occur after the Joining had already taken place. You're not given free reign to travel the map until post-Joining. The DLC in Origins wasn't available until after Lothering in the same way that any Awakening DLC wouldn't really be playable until after her death in the Joining,



I'm not saying I wouldn't want her to survive. I really did like her character the most out of all of the companion trailers. Realistically speaking, though, if there was going to be legitimate DLC based on Mhairi it would most likely follow up with her character after her death.



I personally wouldn't mind either type. Bringing her back would be awesome but getting to know the woman who desired being a Grey Warden so much after her failed Joining seems just as appealing.

[Shipwr3K]

she is dead. get over it.

[AuraofMana]

The only reason why I would ever want her is to have a tank before I get Justice. The thought of doing anything without a tank seems horrible at first, then I realized you can faceroll through this game.

So no, let's not have her back.

[Shipwr3K]

I actually had oghren tank the whole game. Gave him high dex, and he was good to go. no probs on nightmare, I was surprise tbh. He does decent dmg as well.

[SirJoeofthePub]

I'm more miffed that her death was pointless and silly then her dying. The red shirt comparison doesn't even compair cause a red shirt at least died in interesting ways, where as Mhairi just droped on the floor and died.



I'd be fine if she died in battle before she even got to the joining, fending off some guesome terror that poped outa that guys blood (the guy she was kneeling over that said there is something in his blood that hurts) *which of course was never explained*