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Mhairi Appreciation & Resurrection Society {M.A.R.S.} [SPOILERS]


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#51
JosieJ

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Mirthadrond wrote...

Bioware has their hands full trying to make a DA 2 that isn't going to ****** us all off.


Ha!  Never gonna happen--and they know it.  I can certainly sympathize with people who were disappointed that Mhairi died.  Even if I don't particularly care, there are other things that ****** me off that other people don't particularly care about, either.  It's different for everyone.  However, since the devs are most probably not going to resurrect Mhairi, starting threads like this doesn't serve much of a purpose except 1) venting and 2) getting people on both sides of the issue riled up at each other.

I found Mhairi sympathetic, but really, there's so little character development there that the only thing her death meant to me was that I didn't have a tank, and once I found out that you can respec characters at will (as long as you have the gold), even that didn't apply.

The voice actress, OTOH, is quite good.  She voiced Petra and Ser Cauthrien in Origins and Mhairi and Ser Tamra in Awakening, and I hope the developers use her again.

#52
Jax Sparrow

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@ AnniLau : Excuse me? I am confused on what you meant... you don't like the random death?  Me neither, I just want a way to keep Mhairi alive through the joining.  I would much rather they just add more people.  Say have Roland survive long enough to take the joining... especially now that he is sick with the taint and needs the joining to have a chance to survive.  That would be great for Mhairi's emotional development.

Or are you suggesting that you refuse to let Anders die with your Mage?  *laugh*

@ Mirthadrond :  I agree, the whole joining scene needs a massive overhaul,  The expansion itself needs an expansion.  However, blame Marketing... I think EA is in charge of that?... for outright lying and misleading those who preordered into thinking Mhairi was an actual companion.  I think that it is obvious the character is a complete redshirt to the Joining ritual.   Yet, I think they are more than capable of hiring more employees if need be and making official DLCs that give us the choices we want.

@ JosieJ :  Any conflict over Mhairi is irrelevant.  If Mhairi was absent then the trolls would just find something else to argue about.  This thread's sole purpose is to raise awareness of our social group among this community.  So I love people responding in this thread regardless of their intent.  I may choose to berate them for getting off topic but that is my 'response'.  The point of the group is to hopefully inspire BioWare to resurrect Mhairi, and overhaul the Joining ritual, in a future DLC;  By, showing the community's interest in this.

Yes Mhairi exists as a complete redshirt in the game as it is.  The point of a Mhairi DLC would be to add a rich background and future to her character.  I believe BioWare's writers are more than capable of expanding upon the awesome potential in Mhairi's character to something bodaciously beautiful.  As Mirthadrond said she is the only potential Warden who aspires to be a Warden.  The last character like this was Alistair...

I believe that we are exceedingly justified in asking for a female version of the Alistair archetype.

Modifié par Jax Sparrow, 23 mars 2010 - 05:09 .


#53
Ceridraen

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I'd like a more interesting 'female Alistair,' but she seemed rather dull to me. (I also liked her voice acting - it had personality, albeit not a very lively one.) She's the ultimate red shirt here. Isn't she IN red, actually? I'd like a female character who isn't a ****, who isn't a cold, hard cynic, and most of all, who isn't painfully sweet & girlish. Who was that horrid elf healer in BG? Aerie? Something like that. I recall wanting her dead - Leliana had a little of that. So far, I've actually liked Morrigan best. True, I had my boy noble break up with her because I was so mad that she wanted to sacrifice the city elves - but she did have that practical eccentric quality, amidst her tiresome cynicism, and there was some suggestion that she really did have a heart, especially, oddly, if you have her as a friend (male or female) I liked to think of her as a pagan, off to raise a pagan baby. But truly, it would be nice to have a woman - maybe more like Shianni? (actually, it would be nice to NOT be brutalized, but I guess that's the price of being female in a dark fantasy) Someone who isn't insane, baby-ish or just a sour pill. (I have to use Velanna more in another try - she seemed like a duller Morrigan without the wit.)

#54
RPGlover732

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Really OP? you make a thread on the internet and you are asking people to only come on if your agree? you dont know how the internet works.



Anyway, i think the death was kinda lame. we should have gotten to know her more so we would have cared ( but she was a lame character anyway, just a warrior girl who wants to save people. one post said they wanted a normal person... who wants normal? everyone from dragon age was not normal and thats what made them fun) but i dont belive she should be brougth back to life.

#55
blaidfiste

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Bah. Let her stay dead. The DLC can just feature another female warrior. Give her a bit more personality. Heck she can be Mihari's evil twin Iraihm.

Modifié par blaidfiste, 23 mars 2010 - 10:10 .


#56
Urazz

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Default137 wrote...

First Question.

Her death was meant to show that not everyone can survive the Joining, and to provide an emotional hit that couldn't be done if she was a redshirt, or was never put on the Companion page, so, how could you relay those feelings without having her or another companion die?

Thing is that, I didn't really feel that much emotion over her death compared to if it was a redshirt character.  Her death that early on just caused me to go "WTF? I thought she was to be part of the party?  Why is she dead this early on in the story?"  I had no problems with her dying but so early in the story made me question Bioware's strategy about trying to get us to feel some connection to her.

#57
CybAnt1

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I wouldn't bother asking the devs. to change the situation. They won't. The only character that can get a cheesy, unexplained retcon-resurrection is your Warden after UltSac.



On the other hand, I hope some modder will write a Mhairi mod that allows her to survive. Unfortunately, they will need to write dialogue for the rest of the game for her, too, or she'll have no dialogue.



Given the nice job modders have done on Ser Gilmore, I think someone could do it.



As it is, if no one does a Mhairi mod, I wouldn't object to someone at least writing another warrior of similar 'archetype'. A female sword & shield warrior with the Guardian spec that isn't Oghren and isn't a walking zombie. I actually like calling her Iriahm.










#58
Jax Sparrow

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@ Ceridraen :  That is the point of a Mhairi DLC: to add content to the character and have her grow beyond her redshirt roots.
-_-
@ RPGLover732 :  I think I understand the internet better than you give me credit.  My words have been intent to show that a few have been going "off topic".  Yes such things may seem inevitable, and so I make my response inevitable as well.  Such as your comment about not agreeing with the idea of a DLC that would at least give us an option to keep her alive.  I am not sure why you would be against them releasing more content for Awakening but *shrugs* cest la vie.
:ph34r:
@ Blaidfiste :  Intersting idea but why not both?  We are talking about a DLC that adds content, and so maybe it should add more than just more depth to Mhairi.  Whatever her depth is in vanilla Awakening right now is irrelevant to what a DLC could grow it into.
:wizard:
@ CybAnt1 :  Obviously we disagree with your assessment.  We believe that BioWare might vary well add Mhairi content, and way to keep her alive through the joining, in a future DLC.  Thank you for using a different abbreviation for Ultimate Sacrifice than U.S.  I always wondered who thought that one up.
I like the idea of an evil Mhairi twin too, along with romancing a living Mhairi Warden.:wub: :whistle:<3

#59
Thalorin1919

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Mhairi had the personality of a wooden door. Only reason I was slightly upset when she croaked was because I didnt have a tank anymore.

#60
darkshadow136

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Default137 wrote...

First Question.

Her death was meant to show that not everyone can survive the Joining, and to provide an emotional hit that couldn't be done if she was a redshirt, or was never put on the Companion page, so, how could you relay those feelings without having her or another companion die?


True but the whole thing about this game was to introduce new companions to the mix, and Bioware hyped Mhairi for the past month, and now it shows they only did that to kill her off in the beginning of the game. They should have killed off Oghren he was my least favorite companion from Origins, and they put him in this and he drank the whole thing of the blood not just a sip. He should have dropped dead.

#61
darkshadow136

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Thalorin1919 wrote...

Mhairi had the personality of a wooden door. Only reason I was slightly upset when she croaked was because I didnt have a tank anymore.


Hard to say how dull her real personlaity was considering she died 15 minutes in. At 1st I disliked the personality of the female elf mage but she grows on you a bit overtime. But when it comes down to it they Bioware did a more poor job developing the new characters personalities for awakenings in comparison to Origins. The Howe kid they did good with, and anders the mage was like a magic humor fill in for Allistar. Bottom line they should have wither killed Oghren or the female dwarf for the Joining example of risk. There is no reason we should get stuck with 2 dwarfs in the group squad.

#62
Jax Sparrow

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@ Thalorin1919 :  That is the point of a Mhairi DLC: to add content to the character and have her grow beyond her redshirt roots.  Though I think it is safe to say that we disagree and feel that she had a lot of personality and most importantly potential.

#63
Highdragonslayer

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Flemeth should possess her dead body and be your companoin.

#64
Vicious

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I thought it was a joke personally. "IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS MY WHOLE LIEF!" GAAKKK... *death*

#65
Axekix

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Bioware isn't going to waste development time with this...

#66
AOPotter

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Axekix wrote...

Bioware isn't going to waste development time with this...


I would actually like to know what exactly they "waste" or spend development time on. It can not be quality control - a naked Warden seems kinda hard to miss unless playtesting was done by blind people.
Did they spend it on continuing the story? Quite unlikely - my Warden was not only naked but also dead, Wynne should have been away with Shale and Liliana and Dog should have been at my side. And a Dwarven Prince/Paragon does not kneel in front of a guy who left the Wardens in a hissy fit.
Did they spend it on improving combat? If you believe the "Omg - its to easy"-threads in this forum: probably not.

They supposedly worked on this for a year and it feels like something a bunch of thirteen-year-olds cobbled together. Case in point: Oghren in the Joining. The main character passes out but the favorite of the development-team just belches the taint away. If submitting to the taint in this "dark fantasy" is such a funny matter then Mhairi's boobs should have gotten bigger from drinking it instead of killing her.

And since Bioware decided that my dead Warden was not dead (and buried - including a big ceremony) at all, I see no reason why anyone in this game should have to stay dead. So I fully support a Zombie Mhairi, who would make a great team with my naked Zombie Warden.

#67
Axekix

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AOPotter wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Bioware isn't going to waste development time with this...


I would actually like to know what exactly they "waste" or spend development time on. It can not be quality control - a naked Warden seems kinda hard to miss unless playtesting was done by blind people.
Did they spend it on continuing the story? Quite unlikely - my Warden was not only naked but also dead, Wynne should have been away with Shale and Liliana and Dog should have been at my side. And a Dwarven Prince/Paragon does not kneel in front of a guy who left the Wardens in a hissy fit.
Did they spend it on improving combat? If you believe the "Omg - its to easy"-threads in this forum: probably not.

They supposedly worked on this for a year and it feels like something a bunch of thirteen-year-olds cobbled together. Case in point: Oghren in the Joining. The main character passes out but the favorite of the development-team just belches the taint away. If submitting to the taint in this "dark fantasy" is such a funny matter then Mhairi's boobs should have gotten bigger from drinking it instead of killing her.

And since Bioware decided that my dead Warden was not dead (and buried - including a big ceremony) at all, I see no reason why anyone in this game should have to stay dead. So I fully support a Zombie Mhairi, who would make a great team with my naked Zombie Warden.

I'd rather they try to lessen the plot holes/retcons than build off of them personally, but that's just me. 

I was pretty annoyed at Mhairi dying too, but there's really no point in bringing her back now.  Maybe we'll get a new "apprentice" type character in DA2.

#68
taine

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Sorry to say this, but unless Bioware has it planned already there is a 0% chance you will convince them to do it. Sorry.

Why is this? Because of the sheer amount of work involved. They would have to rehire the voice actress, make a new companion quest, write all the new dialogue. Considering the scope of the DLCs up to this point, it really doesn't seem likely. I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with it. I was a bit peeved that she died as well, but you can't always get what you want.

#69
AOPotter

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Axekix wrote...

I'd rather they try to lessen the plot holes/retcons than build off of them personally, but that's just me. 

I was pretty annoyed at Mhairi dying too, but there's really no point in bringing her back now.  Maybe we'll get a new "apprentice" type character in DA2.


The problem is that they made a design-decision to introduce plotholes into the expansion. Its not something you can reduce when the whole game is based on it. And that is more than the naked Zombie Warden-thing. Some people killed Wynne and she is still a questgiver for them. Wardens should be able to sense Darkspawn but they never do. Your LI wanted to travel with you but is not there. Your imprinted Mabari has disappeared. The Warden Treasurer tells you that people from Ferelden can not be trusted with money and you can not send her head (sans body) back to Weisshaupt with a letter requesting a more diplomatic person. And it seems that only idiots, murderers and twits survive the Joining. Which makes the whole thing predictable and boring.

#70
Jax Sparrow

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@ AOPotter :  Your illustration is quiet illuminating.  I too think they need a complete overhaul of the expansion.  David Gaider recently suggested that they were anticipating much less sales for the expansion than what they got.  So, I think it is entirely within the realm of possibility for them to spend some of that money we gave them on a D.L.C. expansion for the expansion.

Wynne only goes with Shale if you have Shale installed.  Otherwise she sticks around Ferelden and acts as a Liason between the tower and the court in the epilogue.  They started this expansion much earlier than when Shale, R.T.O., and Warden's Keep was created... I think that is incredibly silly of them but that is why those have yet to transfer over to the expansion.  In the future they need to seriously spend a whole lot more time and money on expansion than they did... and I fervently hope they agree.

However, I do believe they can plug up all those plot holes easily.  First, you can just have another circle mage give the quest instead of Wynne.  They can add Leliana as a companion as well... or have her come to Vigil's Keep at least... maybe to replace the Treasurer that you just beheaded and snail mailed back to Weisshaupt Fortress.  The Mabari can very easily be added to the NPCs that stand around in Vigil's Keep or even added as yet another companion... YET, the Mabari's absence can be explained just as easily especially if you married Anora.  You could have told him to protect the Queen.  Just because there is trouble in Amaranthine is irrelevant to the dangers that would continue to exist in Denerim.

@ Axekix : I would rather they do all of the above;  And, yes there is a point to bringing her back now.  Just like there was a point to them making the Shale, Warden's Keep, and R.T.O. D.L.C.s  Talimancer's got the L.I. they wanted in M.E.2, and I believe we can get what we want too.  BioWare just needs to see it as profitable to give us the options we want.

@ Taine :  And, who is to say they aren't already working on a DLC that gives us the option to keep Mhairi alive?  And, yes we are "dealing with it", though we may be dealing with it in a way you are unfamiliar with.  We are being positive and envisioning a future DLC we want.  Instead of whining, and ßiτ<╫, about what already is.


David Gaider wrote... [1] 

WilliamShatner wrote...DA:O:A sold 130,000 copies across both 360 and PS3 in its first week.

Comparatively DA:O sold 320,000 on 360 alone in its first week.

Hopefully all sales are as poor as the consoles suggest and will force BioWare not to be so half-assed when it comes to future follow-ups.

Err... not to burst your bubble or anything, but if those sales figures are true (I haven't seen any, myself) then they are excellent. The sales for expansions are traditionally much, much lower than the sales of the original game... hence why expansions have smaller teams working on them and are done in less time. If the sales bar you're holding it to is the original game, it's not the same bar we're using. Sorry.

worksa8 :  [2] Many of us are just really busy -- I'm eyeballs-deep in my next project, which means I just don't have much time to come here, period. As for the people whose job it is to come here, many of them are collecting info rather than posting. So it doesn't mean threads aren't being looked at, if you're wondering -- though clearly we can't look at everything.


This suggests that BioWare is aware of what we want and maybe an announcement is forth coming regarding a major DLC for the expansion.  Then again, maybe not, but I for one would much rather think about what I want and be happy even if I am wrong;  Than to be just another Chicken Little on the forums whining about what already is and being all doom and gloom.

Modifié par Jax Sparrow, 28 mars 2010 - 06:54 .


#71
Thalorin1919

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I honestly dont know why you guys would want DLC for just her. Might as well ask for DLC on Jory and Daveth while you're at it.



She was a companion for fifteen minutes that died in the joining. All I got to know about her on the wiki was that she was a knight that was crushed by Cailan's death by inspired by the two wardens uniting Ferelden. She served as a knight under King Alistair until she joined the GW before being inevitably killed.



Done. Boring. Wooden door.

#72
AlainNagel

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Vicious wrote...

I thought it was a joke personally. "IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS MY WHOLE LIEF!" GAAKKK... *death*


Also:

Mhairi: "They've killed somebody I know! I will avenge you, this I swear!"
PC: The game is called Dragon age, not the Mhairi avenge game. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and leave the decision making to me.

#73
Bigdoser

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she is DEAD she is not coming back cause she is DEAD get over it i knew she was gonna kick the bucket cause her potrait did not have a colour behind plus she annoyed me.

#74
Godak

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AlainNagel wrote...

Mhairi: "They've killed somebody I know! I will avenge you, this I swear!"


Isn't that pretty much how Alistair feels about Loghain retreating...? Image IPB

"Oh, he inadvertently caused Duncan's death. VENGEANCE!"

#75
AlainNagel

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True, but after that the story unfolds and we get our actual options to fulfill that promise. That's a much better storyline.

Maybe I've seen too much of Joss Whedon's work but I expect to loose supporting characters left and right now.

Modifié par AlainNagel, 28 mars 2010 - 10:22 .