214 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagrevi]

MelodicCure wrote...

Pffft Morrigan seems like a good mother to be.

You're just making excuses to sleep with her and you know it.


... anyways, I have to leave thread for a while now.

I'm still MAD AS **** though, and will pay good money to have this issue sorted out if possible so I can actually play the expansion to MY game, as opposed to "a" Dragon Age game.

Thank you mods for at least talking with us. Please don't think this topic is over though - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, where did that ~40 page thread go? Did it get locked?

[IssacG0ndel]

aaagh





this is such a pile of crap. If Bioware cares AT ALL they will create SOME SORT of fix for this. I don't know what it will be, maybe it will be something entirely unexpected, but they will do something.

[Aduilawen]

Jagrevi wrote...

MelodicCure wrote...

Pffft Morrigan seems like a good mother to be.

You're just making excuses to sleep with her and you know it.


... anyways, I have to leave thread for a while now.

I'm still MAD AS **** though, and will pay good money to have this issue sorted out if possible so I can actually play the expansion to MY game, as opposed to "a" Dragon Age game.

Thank you mods for at least talking with us. Please don't think this topic is over though - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, where did that ~40 page thread go? Did it get locked?

Sir, as someone who works in the software development industry let me say a few things on why Bioware would not give you the extra options you desire.

Money.

To do the things you desire, it takes more time.  And as we all know, time is money.  I'm willing to bet they simply did not have the budget and time to comply with your request.  Adding in all those extra storylines isn't as simple as adding a few lines of text into a dialogue.  It means extra time spent on development, test, and design.  You also have to pay voice actors more for more time to accomodate all the lines of dialogue that will be added for each unique storyline.

It's really that simple.  I'm sure every one of the devs would want to make an expansion for you that has a perfect persistent world for every storyline ending but they simply cannot do it.  Devs do not make decisions like the ones they made for Awakenings just to screw you over.  They do it based on factors that usually come down to time and money.

So the next time you wonder why devs can't simply add a simple piece of content remember it's never that simple.

Make change in code, have to review the code first, ok looks good, oh have to build a new build, okay changes integrated, time for test to do a full test pass to make sure there are no regressions... etc etc etc... and after all is said and done you got yourself a total of  several weeks of time spent (depending on how big the changes are).

Please think of us poor kittens (read software devs).

Modifié par Aduilawen, 18 mars 2010 - 01:18 .

[Moogliepie]

Jagrevi wrote...

IssacG0ndel wrote...
HALLELULIAH or however you spell that, I'm not actually a believer in supernatural miracles and so-forth. However, Bioware technical miracles I do have a glimmer of hope for with this tease.

I'm not either, but I think it has a "J".

Regardless, I don't think it's going to get mistaken for any other word.

I don't know if there actually is a "fix" though. Despite the bioware mods here being as very cool as they are (they are actually talking with us about this), I don't know if anyone is cool enough to pull off that. That would take a power of 20 Mega-Fonzies.

I think he was trying to say the "fix" would be a lot more complicated than we think it is, perhaps some monumental task requiring more staff than they have. However, they also said something similar about the WK armor issue, and players already made a mod to get it to work for the PC version on DAY ONE. It leads me to believe that the software team for DA is either incompetent or lazy.

There is of course a third alternative, that involves EA. If you are familiar with how EA has pimped out other game companies they took over, what is happening with DA seems to fit the pattern. Just as with Origin and Maxis, they start out by giving them massive marketing support with the lure of creative freedom. Once they have a product on the shelves, they try to milk it for as much as its worth, with expansion after expansion, putting heavy deadline pressures on the development and programming teams. The initial product has a high sunk cost, which they recover with low-cost expansions and DLCs. Their console sports games are the worst offenders, but the Sims is a perfect example. Once the have juiced all the creativity out of the dev team after a couple years, they just pump out uninspired sequels with only minor technical improvements over previous installments. After they have a few solid titles from a company, they just milk those from their reputation, and pull resources away from real innovation. Once those titles are dried up and the original creative leaders are burned out and quit, EA stops producing those titles and just lets the franchise die. 

[Bryy_Miller]

IssacG0ndel wrote...

THAT'S THE BIGGEST MIDDLE FINGER IN THE WORLD!

Yes, by all means, take it that personally.

It's that simple. Obviously you've programmed an alternative in there - but you SPECIFICALLY MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOME OF US TO CONTINUE.

I'm sure that's how it happened.

"Hey, uh, guys, let's NOT put this line of code in the game that makes it so it is playable."
"Sounds like a great idea!"

[Bigdoser]

Aduilawen wrote...

Jagrevi wrote...

MelodicCure wrote...

Pffft Morrigan seems like a good mother to be.

You're just making excuses to sleep with her and you know it.


... anyways, I have to leave thread for a while now.

I'm still MAD AS **** though, and will pay good money to have this issue sorted out if possible so I can actually play the expansion to MY game, as opposed to "a" Dragon Age game.

Thank you mods for at least talking with us. Please don't think this topic is over though - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, where did that ~40 page thread go? Did it get locked?

Sir, as someone who works in the software development industry let me say a few things on why Bioware would not give you the extra options you desire.

Money.

To do the things you desire, it takes more time.  And as we all know, time is money.  I'm willing to bet they simply did not have the budget and time to comply with your request.  Adding in all those extra storylines isn't as simple as adding a few lines of text into a dialogue.  It means extra time spent on development, test, and design.  You also have to pay voice actors more for more time to accomodate all the lines of dialogue that will be added for each unique storyline.

It's really that simple.  I'm sure every one of the devs would want to make an expansion for you that has a perfect persistent world for every storyline ending but they simply cannot do it.  Devs do not make decisions like the ones they made for Awakenings just to screw you over.  They do it based on factors that usually come down to time and money.

So the next time you wonder why devs can't simply add a simple piece of content remember it's never that simple.

Make change in code, have to review the code first, ok looks good, oh have to build a new build, okay changes integrated, time for test to do a full test pass to make sure there are no regressions... etc etc etc... and after all is said and done you got yourself a total of  several weeks of time spent (depending on how big the changes are).

Please think of us poor kittens (read software devs).

People read this post.

[Bryy_Miller]

Bigdoser wrote...

Aduilawen wrote...

Jagrevi wrote...

MelodicCure wrote...

Pffft Morrigan seems like a good mother to be.

You're just making excuses to sleep with her and you know it.


... anyways, I have to leave thread for a while now.

I'm still MAD AS **** though, and will pay good money to have this issue sorted out if possible so I can actually play the expansion to MY game, as opposed to "a" Dragon Age game.

Thank you mods for at least talking with us. Please don't think this topic is over though - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, where did that ~40 page thread go? Did it get locked?

Sir, as someone who works in the software development industry let me say a few things on why Bioware would not give you the extra options you desire.

Money.

To do the things you desire, it takes more time.  And as we all know, time is money.  I'm willing to bet they simply did not have the budget and time to comply with your request.  Adding in all those extra storylines isn't as simple as adding a few lines of text into a dialogue.  It means extra time spent on development, test, and design.  You also have to pay voice actors more for more time to accomodate all the lines of dialogue that will be added for each unique storyline.

It's really that simple.  I'm sure every one of the devs would want to make an expansion for you that has a perfect persistent world for every storyline ending but they simply cannot do it.  Devs do not make decisions like the ones they made for Awakenings just to screw you over.  They do it based on factors that usually come down to time and money.

So the next time you wonder why devs can't simply add a simple piece of content remember it's never that simple.

Make change in code, have to review the code first, ok looks good, oh have to build a new build, okay changes integrated, time for test to do a full test pass to make sure there are no regressions... etc etc etc... and after all is said and done you got yourself a total of  several weeks of time spent (depending on how big the changes are).

Please think of us poor kittens (read software devs).

People read this post.

Exactly. I have no doubt that DA2 will expand upon the MAIN story. DA:A is basically just a sidequest. DA2 is obviously going to have much more financial backing.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 18 mars 2010 - 01:45 .

[Dennis Carpenter]

after playing all the NWN mods I had hoped for something different here but am not surprised that the persistent storyline is only as persistent as the creators deem it to be. But why is everyone upset? Its exactly what we thought it would be before it ever came out. This just solidified our theories. A famous football line comes to mind here "they are who we thought are". I have not bought the game yet but will on Friday because I want to play the game. I go into it with little expectations other then to find some new and interesting things (Hopefully) but am aware they will be more interesting to those who created it then those who are playing it. BTW what happened to all the suggestions we were asked for to help them put together this persistent world expansion. Guess that was all smoke and mirrors to just get us off their back for a while. I am sure in spite of the obvious disappointments for myself and others the game will probably be ok because I do not expect it to live up to anything near the origins game. Sorry Bioware you have my deepest sympathy for falling into the marketing trap that seems to affect all game companies these days. Maybe I could just put up an old headstone in the back yard "3-16-2010 RIP" out of respect for the Bioware I knew.

[POPWW3]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I did not mean to imply that any percent of players being unhappy was fine with me, I meant that you could play it. You may personally choose to have probblems with the story set or importing a dead character or whatever, and I am not dismissing your concern, I am saying that you CAN play it. There are people who do cannot as it is not released yet where they live. There are people who cannot for whatever techinical issue that may have.

You CAN play it, you are choising not to. That is what I meant. If I were the mean and nasty fella everyone thinks, I would have changed the title of the thread to "WTH! Did BioWare really just make an expansion that I choose not to play for story reasons!", but that would have been wrong.

Now, as to the back story as set by the Devs, yes. That is what the Dev team does. They create the story and the lore for the game. In the same way that in DAO we set your origin stories, we set the origin story for the Orlesian warden. While I understand you may dissagree and want "your" story choices for the Orlesian wardens origin, this is not the case. In the same way that you chould not choose the "what happened before" in your origins in DAO. This is the same for DAA. Again, if you want whoever to be king or queen, who lived or died, etc you can choose to import a save and continue that story.

Jesus Chris you are full of crap, the fact here is that everyone that chosed the US ending CANT continue their story, end of discussion. And dont come here saying that you can still import your dead warden because you know thats not a ****ing solution. "You can make like the US never happened" isnt a solution.

Damn now i see why you guys didnt answered the other US topics, just stfu about this Chris. The guy who made the thread is right, you guys wasted an ending , end of the ****ing discussion.

[Dennis Carpenter]

[quote]Bryy_Miller wrote...

[quote]Bigdoser wrote...

[
Sir, as someone who works in the software development industry let me say a few things on why Bioware would not give you the extra options you desire.

Money.

To do the things you desire, it takes more time.  And as we all know, time is money.  I'm willing to bet they simply did not have the budget and time to comply with your request.  Adding in all those extra storylines isn't as simple as adding a few lines of text into a dialogue.  It means extra time spent on development, test, and design.  You also have to pay voice actors more for more time to accomodate all the lines of dialogue that will be added for each unique storyline.

It's really that simple.  I'm sure every one of the devs would want to make an expansion for you that has a perfect persistent world for every storyline ending but they simply cannot do it.  Devs do not make decisions like the ones they made for Awakenings just to screw you over.  They do it based on factors that usually come down to time and money.

So the next time you wonder why devs can't simply add a simple piece of content remember it's never that simple.

Make change in code, have to review the code first, ok looks good, oh have to build a new build, okay changes integrated, time for test to do a full test pass to make sure there are no regressions... etc etc etc... and after all is said and done you got yourself a total of  several weeks of time spent (depending on how big the changes are).

Please think of us poor kittens (read software devs).[/quote]
People read this post.

[/quote]

Exactly. I have no doubt that DA2 will expand upon the MAIN story. DA:A is basically just a sidequest. DA2 is obviously going to have much more financial backing.[/quote]

Nice spin you should be working on the health bill in the US congress I am sure it would have passed by now. If it cost so much to do the things we want to have done then why did they offer the choices to us to begin with? Also why then intrigue us by letting us believe it wiould be a persistent world not just another NWN fiasco. Dont even try to make me believe they did not know when they were doing the original development that they could not possibly continue all the storylines. Thats what they are paid for "development"  which includes future applications for that particular game. And why did they ask us for our input ever since the network came online. I do understand it is a money issue it was with NWN also yet we all got sucked in just as we did back then hoping Bioware would remane the great company it was.

And if you believe DA2 will resolve it I would like you to send me some of what you are smoking. If you truly believe this maybe you should send a resume to President Obama He is looking for a few more good men who can help him carpet bag the constitution right in front of our eyes.

My apologies to the forum for this rant I am sure i will recover once I take my new prescription.

[Moosnuff616]

IssacG0ndel wrote...

I have to apologize for what follows, it's typical fanboy-ranting. That being said, it's typical for a reason. Because I care, because I love what Bioware has to offer - typically - and because it means alot to me. To my whole family, in fact.

I really, really, hope I'm just mis-understanding something, but I think I need to express how big a deal this is.

I just bought Dragon Age Awakening. I figured that it's okay if my Warden is dead, I'll just play as the Orlesian Warden.

Then, I get home, and I read this ...

Aldaris951 wrote...

The orlesian has its own cannon
background "for example alistair will always be king for him" and other
default choices, Anything u do in DA:O is not effected the orlesian
wardens background choices.

Are you honestly telling me that if, for example, I made Anora queen and made the sacrifice, there's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO CONTINUE MY STORY?!

Tell me there's something I'm missing, because it really looks like Bioware just made an expansion EXCLUSIVELY FOR PEOPLE WHO ENDED THE GAME IN A PARTICULAR SET OF WAYS.

What the hell happened to persistent worlds!

Not allowing us to import our world data with a dead warden is one thing, BUT THEN SPECIFICALLY MAKING THE PLAYTHROUGH EXCLUSIVELY FOR ONLY PARTICULAR SEGMENTS OF THE COMMUNITY!

THAT'S THE BIGGEST MIDDLE FINGER IN THE WORLD!

I mean,the alternative is *IN* the game, right? She has to be programmed in there for people whose Alistair is dead, or is gone away "never to be seen again". Or, at least, an option where you never run into them at all.

It's that simple. Obviously you've programmed an alternative in there - but you SPECIFICALLY MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOME OF US TO CONTINUE.

Why not make an expansion only for Warriors? Except let's not advertise it as such, let's have it be a surprise for when you actually play the damn game!!!!!

I literally got 4 words into this post before deciding that it wasn't worth reading hope that helps

[TAJ4Life]

So in theory this game isn't a true expansion at all its Dragon Age: Origins 1.5, a true expansion should carry over everything from the previous game and accomodate for the new one and giving different results based on different decisions etc like what Bioware did with ME1 to ME2.

[Moogliepie]

Aduilawen wrote...

Jagrevi wrote...

MelodicCure wrote...

Pffft Morrigan seems like a good mother to be.

You're just making excuses to sleep with her and you know it.


... anyways, I have to leave thread for a while now.

I'm still MAD AS **** though, and will pay good money to have this issue sorted out if possible so I can actually play the expansion to MY game, as opposed to "a" Dragon Age game.

Thank you mods for at least talking with us. Please don't think this topic is over though - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, where did that ~40 page thread go? Did it get locked?

Sir, as someone who works in the software development industry let me say a few things on why Bioware would not give you the extra options you desire.

Money.

To do the things you desire, it takes more time.  And as we all know, time is money.  I'm willing to bet they simply did not have the budget and time to comply with your request.  Adding in all those extra storylines isn't as simple as adding a few lines of text into a dialogue.  It means extra time spent on development, test, and design.  You also have to pay voice actors more for more time to accomodate all the lines of dialogue that will be added for each unique storyline.

It's really that simple.  I'm sure every one of the devs would want to make an expansion for you that has a perfect persistent world for every storyline ending but they simply cannot do it.  Devs do not make decisions like the ones they made for Awakenings just to screw you over.  They do it based on factors that usually come down to time and money.

So the next time you wonder why devs can't simply add a simple piece of content remember it's never that simple.

Make change in code, have to review the code first, ok looks good, oh have to build a new build, okay changes integrated, time for test to do a full test pass to make sure there are no regressions... etc etc etc... and after all is said and done you got yourself a total of  several weeks of time spent (depending on how big the changes are).

Please think of us poor kittens (read software devs).

Oh wow, I'm so glad you enlightened us with your wisdom and experience! Who knew that games are so unlike any other product sold in that they cost money to make? Maybe if us simpletons learned from game developers from Bioware, we would all be better off. Like that guy from Toyota, right? They're just making something as simple as automobiles, why do they need to make complicated explanations for why their products fail and kill people? They should just learn from game developers and say, "Yeah, we knew this car had potentially deadly flaws, but hey it costs money to fix these things. Deal with it!" I'm sure they would instill a great deal of consumer confidence in the Toyota brand name, and everyone would be gushing about how great their cars are compared to those lousy Kias. Of course there will always be a few whiners, but they aren't mechanical engineers, so who cares what they think?
 

[Last Darkness]

So let me get this straight.....you are complaining that you cant play the game because you dont want to create a new warden or import your old one?.............WoW...just wow.



Just for those who are intrested THE CANNON ending is The Dark Bargain with Morrigan.

And from other sources the Cannon ruler is Alistair as King.



Sure your Warden can permanetly die at the end but thats kinda short sited considering the game has sevral sequals telling the story planned along with more expansions and NOT being able to importing your character is a problem.

[Feraele]

IssacG0ndel wrote...

I have to apologize for what follows, it's typical fanboy-ranting. That being said, it's typical for a reason. Because I care, because I love what Bioware has to offer - typically - and because it means alot to me. To my whole family, in fact.

I really, really, hope I'm just mis-understanding something, but I think I need to express how big a deal this is.

I just bought Dragon Age Awakening. I figured that it's okay if my Warden is dead, I'll just play as the Orlesian Warden.

Then, I get home, and I read this ...

Aldaris951 wrote...

The orlesian has its own cannon
background "for example alistair will always be king for him" and other
default choices, Anything u do in DA:O is not effected the orlesian
wardens background choices.

Are you honestly telling me that if, for example, I made Anora queen and made the sacrifice, there's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO CONTINUE MY STORY?!

Tell me there's something I'm missing, because it really looks like Bioware just made an expansion EXCLUSIVELY FOR PEOPLE WHO ENDED THE GAME IN A PARTICULAR SET OF WAYS.

What the hell happened to persistent worlds!

Not allowing us to import our world data with a dead warden is one thing, BUT THEN SPECIFICALLY MAKING THE PLAYTHROUGH EXCLUSIVELY FOR ONLY PARTICULAR SEGMENTS OF THE COMMUNITY!

THAT'S THE BIGGEST MIDDLE FINGER IN THE WORLD!

I mean,the alternative is *IN* the game, right? She has to be programmed in there for people whose Alistair is dead, or is gone away "never to be seen again". Or, at least, an option where you never run into them at all.

It's that simple. Obviously you've programmed an alternative in there - but you SPECIFICALLY MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOME OF US TO CONTINUE.

Why not make an expansion only for Warriors? Except let's not advertise it as such, let's have it be a surprise for when you actually play the damn game!!!!!

This is old news Isaac....we had a 40 page thread on this issue that wasn't answered for 19 days,  and when we finally did get an answer it was on a spammy..live chat channel..where you couldn't ask the question you wanted and hope for an answer.   The US is not a legitimate ending..evidently..well thats all I can glean from this...but yeah its pretty old news.

[ObserverStatus]

The expansion didn't have nearly as many plot hooks as ME2 so it doesn't really matter. Wynnie the Poo harassed me in Ameranthine, but it was the only tie in I noticed.

[Feraele]

IssacG0ndel wrote...

Jagrevi wrote...
Hold up - our stories (Anora being the queen)  ... "aren't appropriate"? But their appropriate for non-Orlesian Wardens? Alistair HAS TO be the ruler for an Orlesian Warden? Really?

Honestly, pretend that everyone who lived in, oh I don't know, Ohio, had one of the companion's face just green. You'd fix that, right? And that's a far smaller % then the dead wardens with Anora. And it a far less game-breaking problem than this.

So honestly, what's so wrong with making the game so that everyone can play it in their backstory? How horrible would that patch or DLC be to implement - the "Anora is the leader" programming is already in the game, you just forgot to offer that to us!

Hold up. This is already considered a "problem", correct?

Are you implying that they don't already even have intention to fix it?

From what I understand...after a very lonnnnnng silence on the whole US issue,  it seems its some sort of technical issue where, its not possible to leave the warden dead but import his information...like who is king or queen....therefore that US is negated, doesn't exist.

If you port your dead warden (you can )  you get some sort of default story set in place by the Devs,  and again..US is negated..doesn't exist.


So my only option in this..is to leave my warden dead and pretend I never played that role..for the 83 hours that I did. *wink*

Modifié par Feraele, 18 mars 2010 - 04:17 .

[Synk]

The reason it sucks is apparently the cooperate model as of late, make something good to suck people in. Then invest half the cash you did on the good product to make some ****ing garbage at the same price point and collect all the "suckers" money who believed in your company after buying the good product.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Last Darkness wrote...

So let me get this straight.....you are complaining that you cant play the game because you dont want to create a new warden or import your old one?.............WoW...just wow.

Just for those who are intrested THE CANNON ending is The Dark Bargain with Morrigan.
And from other sources the Cannon ruler is Alistair as King.

Sure your Warden can permanetly die at the end but thats kinda short sited considering the game has sevral sequals telling the story planned along with more expansions and NOT being able to importing your character is a problem.

I don't care about their damned canon, I want my own story! Sure, there needs to be a default like in ME2, but a in a series about choices it's simply not done to just tell the player "No, you didn't do that. You did it this way!"
I normally wouldn't condone something like what POPWW3 said, most definitely not against a mod. But I feel his anger and his regret. All we want is to continue our story. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not as if the writers couldn't have come up with a simple explanation as to why we have a dead warden walking.

[Hulk Hsieh]

I miss the good old times with BG2.

Bioware revived Minsc and Jaheira who I killed in BG1 and sent my teammate Edwin away....



Maybe they should stick to one "canon" ending of DA:O and develop DA:OA.

They are not as prepared as ME series on this. And when you are not prepared, it is better you don't do it at all.

[PSUHammer]

This thread made me laugh. Can we just shut the forums down for a month or two after any new release? The posts are so ridiculous that it is just depressing to even come here. Maybe I will just leave and go play Awakening....yup, bye!

Modifié par Hammer6767, 18 mars 2010 - 04:33 .

[Feraele]

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...

Jagrevi wrote...



We bought into your franchise in the first place based on promises of persistent worlds, and actually fufilling such a promise and fixing this problem is so, SO simple. But still, here we are, with all signs pointing to Bioware just not giving a damn about us.

I think you're mistaking Dragon Age with Mass Effect. Mass Effect is the only franchise that was promsied to have full continuity. Dragon Age was never promised to be a persistent world.  In fact, with all the talk of how they can explore different time periods and places in the Dragon Age world with future games, chances are Dragon Age 2 won't have anything to do with your Warden and Ferelden.

Yup I have a strong hunch that DA:2 will not resemble or be like Origins...at all,  and I hope people are able to look at the current changes being made..like the dialogue streamlining..the lessening presence of "love interest" characters..and other things that we feel are being "taken away"  and realize that these changes are being done for a reason.

Part of that reason may have to do with budget, but another may be because they are gearing up to tell a totally different story in DA:2.

For me,  I guess I can keep on playing the parts of DA I like..I mean its still on my harddrive,  I like Awakening despite the problem with the US ending.    I will be waiting for reviews next time around however,  before I buy into more dlc/expansions...mainly (nothing to do with Bioware exactly)  because I jumped the gun and pre-ordered before I discovered the problem with the US ending.

One other thing we all need to realize is...Awakening had been in production for a full year before they ever announced it to us,  so any feedback or input we offered up..pretty much fell on deaf ears,  it was already done, they couldn't change it ...we were too late.

[Feraele]

Jagrevi wrote...

MelodicCure wrote...

Pffft Morrigan seems like a good mother to be.

You're just making excuses to sleep with her and you know it.


... anyways, I have to leave thread for a while now.

I'm still MAD AS **** though, and will pay good money to have this issue sorted out if possible so I can actually play the expansion to MY game, as opposed to "a" Dragon Age game.

Thank you mods for at least talking with us. Please don't think this topic is over though - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, where did that ~40 page thread go? Did it get locked?

No far as I know it never got locked hehe...I think most that posted there tried to be reasonable..we did have a few derailers and whatnot attempt to interrupt the thread..but it lived on for awhile.

[mscotch]

Once news spread of your death, people realized that they should have made their own choices in the first place and not listen to some stranger.



Also, Alistair decided he had more of a right to the throne than Anora so he staged a successful coup.



And now everything makes sense and you can play the game as the Orlesian warden.



Or you can replay the ending and make Loghain sacrifice himself. Personally I don't see what the big deal is. If you think about it, sacrificing yourself turns out to a be a pretty poor decision since the darkspawn aren't actually defeated. Your character has uncanny intuition and therefore decides to let a lesser Grey Warden bite the bullet, since he knows he will be needed again.

[Janni-in-VA]

Okay, let me see if I understand this. Certain posters are heaping scorn, hatred, foul language and insult on Bioware because...? The choices they made before making the ultimate sacrifice for Ferelden don't carry over if they revive that character for Awakening? No? Is it that they don't care for the canon backstory created for the Orlesian warden you may play if you don't want to import your own character? Yes? If you import your own character who did NOT make the ultimate sacrifice, the ruler isn't who you put on the throne? No?

Seems the only problem, then, is the backstory for the new Orlesian warden. And that backstory warrants the kind of language and vitriol I've seen spewed forth in this thread? Not to mention the quotes I've seen taken out of context. Question: Will we be able to import a character who made the ultimate sacrifice and continue to play? Answer: If you don't mind, we don't. It's a game, people. If you don't like it, don't play it. It's that simple. Sell your copy; I'm sure someone would be happy to buy it from you. Sure, you have a right to be unhappy with whatever, but at least express yourself in a more adult (i.e. polite) manner.

And no, I'm not a mod, but if you're unhappy with what I've said, just consider it my right to freedom of speech. At least I didn't resort to swearing, name calling, and trashing your reputation.