214 réponses à ce sujet

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Feraele wrote...

Taerda wrote...

The issue seems to be with people believing that something promised for ME2 would be carried over to DA - a promise I've not seen made by the DA team.

I've never played ME or ME2  so there goes that theory.

And from reading responses I see that..STILL people don't get the point of the original debate over the US ending.

Is that because they are skimming and not reading?   Probably..because most times they declare...well you can't play your dead warden....um....duh?

But yes you can, Bioware stated you can...."get out of jail free card".     To hell with roleplaying...rofl.

All we wanted is some sort of small news that would colour the world for the new Orlesian warden..."our" warden by the way, because thats where alot of us saw the connection.   Former a dead hero, information carries forward...New Orlesian warden takes over from the dead hero.

I really don't see what is wrong with that picture, its absolutely a more logical way to do things then all of a sudden going  WHOOP...la la la I didn't die after all..I was only fooollllllinng .../rolleyes.   LOL

Seriously?

Bioware never promised any such thing. So you are mad because they didn't read your mind?

The Orlesian warden was designed to be a new origin story for people who did not want to import. Applying your specific preferences to it is silly. I suggest you get this connection out of your head(s) because as far as Bioware is concerned that's the only place it's ever existed.


And yes the dead warden import feature was added for people who don't care about the RPG aspect, not for those who do. it was never for your specific situation.

I think it's pretty clear that your specific situation was never considered at all in this design. Bad on them, they should have considered the possibility.

Finally, to be honest. The King/Queen gets a very short cameo at the beginning of the game and then is never mentioned again. It doesnt affect anything else in the entire expansion that I can see. All this fuss over a short cameo? Really?

[Blessed Silence]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Now, as to the back story as set by the Devs, yes. That is what the Dev team does. They create the story and the lore for the game. In the same way that in DAO we set your origin stories, we set the origin story for the Orlesian warden. While I understand you may dissagree and want "your" story choices for the Orlesian wardens origin, this is not the case. In the same way that you chould not choose the "what happened before" in your origins in DAO. This is the same for DAA. Again, if you want whoever to be king or queen, who lived or died, etc you can choose to import a save and continue that story.

Could you not have done a bit of choice like in ME2 where you told what happened in ME?

Would only take a few moments but set the game up right.  /shrugs

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Jagrevi wrote...

Fraga500 wrote...

I wonder why some of this people are
complaining if they don't even have - or at least didn't register -
their original Dragon Age: Origins/ Awakening game.

Because my fiance and I both play the game, and it was registered on her account. It only gets registered on one X-Box account, but it works for everyone who plays on that X-Box.

Just because you don't have an icon doesn't mean you didn't register your game.

JaegerBane wrote...

But all this business about how the utlimate sacrifice 'means nothing' because there wasn't some spiel about what they did in the original game.... Is this really something worth getting riled over?

Just to clarify - it's not that "there isn't some spiel". It's that for a particular group of people, the game directly contradicts your story.

It's like if the game gave you a choice to either kill or save Leliana, and then, after you made your choice and got a whole cutscene where you rescue her, regardless of what you chose, someone comes up to you and says "Well, now that you killed that idiot, we can get on with everything", and Leliana is dead.

If it was just "there was no spiel", that'd be fine. However, it then takes an Alistair who was dead or "never seen again", and makes him king.

I beg to differ. It does not directly contradict your US ending. it ignores it completely. As I said in a previous post, the Orlesian warden is not YOUR story and was never intended as such.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Now, as to the back story as set by the Devs, yes. That is what the Dev team does. They create the story and the lore for the game. In the same way that in DAO we set your origin stories, we set the origin story for the Orlesian warden. While I understand you may dissagree and want "your" story choices for the Orlesian wardens origin, this is not the case. In the same way that you chould not choose the "what happened before" in your origins in DAO. This is the same for DAA. Again, if you want whoever to be king or queen, who lived or died, etc you can choose to import a save and continue that story.

Could you not have done a bit of choice like in ME2 where you told what happened in ME?

Would only take a few moments but set the game up right.  /shrugs

it may have taken a 'few moments' if done at design time, but after release it's way too late. As a developer I can assure you even a small change would be a big hassle at this point. Even at 1 month before release it would have been a pain.

[Dragon Age1103]

haha people are funny!

[SageGaspar]

I, uh... jeebus, life is short people. Wow.

[Jagrevi]

Shinian2 wrote...

I beg to differ. It does not directly contradict your US ending. it ignores it completely. As I said in a previous post, the Orlesian warden is not YOUR story and was never intended as such.

It doesn't simply ignore it in the sense that it doesn't regard it though - it ignores it in the sense that it contradicts it in a way that makes it clear that it doesn't even take place in the same universe.

To repeat an analogy, it would be like a sequal to Return of the Jedi taking place on Alderaan.

It's more that it's not "YOUR" story. It's that it doesn't even take place in the same world as "YOUR" story.
Why even make it a Dragon Age game then? Or even have crossover characters and plot-points?

If it had it's own IP, and had nothing to do with Dragon Age, then this wouldn't even be coming up at all.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Jagrevi wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

I beg to differ. It does not directly contradict your US ending. it ignores it completely. As I said in a previous post, the Orlesian warden is not YOUR story and was never intended as such.

It doesn't simply ignore it in the sense that it doesn't regard it though - it ignores it in the sense that it contradicts it in a way that makes it clear that it doesn't even take place in the same universe.

To repeat an analogy, it would be like a sequal to Return of the Jedi taking place on Alderaan.

It's more that it's not "YOUR" story. It's that it doesn't even take place in the same world as "YOUR" story.
Why even make it a Dragon Age game then? Or even have crossover characters and plot-points?

If it had it's own IP, and had nothing to do with Dragon Age, then this wouldn't even be coming up at all.

Ah, you are referring to importing your 'dead' warden, while I was talking about the Orlesian story. I see where the confusion was.

Yes, Bioware allowed the pre US import for people who do not feel strongly about the issue like you do. It's fr people who just want to stick with that character despite the US ending. 

Still, they are ignoring your specific story.  to me, the same logic applies. Neither of those two features they did include apply to your specific concerns.

[HeavenlyFungus]

If I killed off my character, I would not continue with him/her in Awakening. Seems really pointless.



Who cares about some Orlesian wallflower warden anyway?



And did people **** about KOTOR2 the same way?

[Jagrevi]

Shinian2 wrote...

Ah, you are referring to importing your 'dead' warden, while I was talking about the Orlesian story

I was actually talking about both.

Let me clarify.

Myself, and everyone else I know who plays Bioware games, with the exception of some people on this forum apparently, do so in the following way.

They play through the game once until they get to the end. (We do have other things to do besides play the same enormous game 12 times) For example, when they beat "Mass Effect 1", the story they beat the game with was "The Mass Effect Story So Far". Similarly, when they beat Dragon Age, that was "The Dragon Age Story So Far". The story they got when they played through the game has already been established for them, just as much as the story of any Dragon Age books they read through as well.

The problem is not that there is the ability for people to continuing playing Dragon Age who don't mind throwing the story out the window, the problem is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to continue the story for some people, through any option.

Meaning, if you care about story, then for some people - there is no more Dragon Age. The death of that one character was the end not just of their story, but the end of THE story. It can't continue. You know that epic tale you created and poured your heart into playing? IT'S DEAD. Everyone else BESIDES you can continue their stories - but YOURS doesn't pass muster. If you want to keep playing Dragon Age, please erase and forget that thing you poured time into and means so much to you, and try again.

That story you loved and put so much time into, that you've already established, that you've even expanded the tale of with the books, and so forth ...

Bioware now says - "No, it didn't happen that way, you didn't make the choice that you did.' If you want to keep playing, you need to throw your story in the garbage and try again to do it 'the right way'."

For game about living a story and making meaningful decisions, it's the biggest bull**** move Bioware could have made.

Modifié par Jagrevi, 21 mars 2010 - 11:05 .

[dirftglass]

HeavenlyFungus wrote...

If I killed off my character, I would not continue with him/her in Awakening.

And so many people aren't, because for some it's the only sensible option left to them.

Which is still crappy though, because that's blatantly not allowing them to continue their games into the expansion.
(You know, that game where that one warden was dead and Alistair was dead or just gone forever? That game. Their game.)

I sincerely hope that Bioware does not make this big of a blunder again. This is an enormous fumble. Nothing we can do about it now, it seems, but if they do it again, I'm gone.

[HeavenlyFungus]

Oh, that was just an observation on my point of view. I don't understand why one would make such choices, even if they are given to you. But I can see the problem now. It would have been easier if BW didn't give such a plethora of choices and instead narrowed it down a bit. It would give that 25%(probably 1-2%, really) less of a headache.



Hmmm, it's a cake or death situation, if you ask me.

[Jagrevi]

HeavenlyFungus wrote...

Hmmm, it's a cake or death situation, if you ask me.

Aaah, Eddie Izzard.

Always brightens one's day.

[Fleb]

This has to be the winner of the Olympus Mons out of a molehill thread, for sure.

[Agent.0.Fortune]

HeavenlyFungus wrote...
If I killed off my character, I would not continue with him/her in Awakening. Seems really pointless.
Who cares about some Orlesian wallflower warden anyway?
And did people **** about KOTOR2 the same way?

You must have really hated ME2 then, where they killed your charcter in the first 5 minutes. Seems pointless to play then.

The reality, they could have come up with virtually anything and not pissed off 25% of their customers. Here is a 5 minute brainstorm.
Since they have already written an entire DLC based around brand new character, the orleasian warden, and we know that making the ultimate sacrifice prevented Morrigan's plan, we will piggy back those ideas to minimize impact the existing product (ie, they could DLC this without changing anything).
Our hero is dead, but Morrigan does not have her prize (which may or may not be required for a future installment), but she knows that the hero and the archdemon are intertwined and she knows where ashes of andraste are located, and she knows where many of flemeths secret grimiores are held. So she know she has a chance to recover her prize, she must simply resurect our hero and extract the essence of the archdemon.
I'll skip the details, but that task complete we have an intact hero, but without memory of the immediate past. The world thinks our hero is dead, our new hero recovered from a dungeon (perhaps in the Arl Howes keep) and instated as the local commander, and the hero plays through the game (using the orleasian heroes story line, but with their own desicions imported), as they slowly come to realize that our hero is the sacrficed hero reborn, with a nice little prologe that tie up any loose ends.

Or for a completely minimalist aproach, just add one line in the opening sequence aknowledging that the character died and came, perhaps resurcted bye someone (Morrigan, Flemeth, Andraste, etc) for reasons as of yet unknown.

Or if bioware is really struggling, they could always fall back on teh old "dream sequence" explanation. You thought you died, but really Morigan tricked you and you were just in a coma.

Again anything is better than nothing, sometimes its the effort that counts.

[Thibbledorf26]

It is ridiculous that the US isn't recognized in Awakening. The US ending was a deep, impactful ending to DA:O, your character's choices including making the sacrifice were very important. Nobody is saying every single little choice you made in Origins should be recognized, but making the US is the most important choice you'll make, it is not so silly to expect it to be recognized. If you import a dead warden you should start as an Orlesian warden, but the choices of your dead warden should be recognized, including the sacrifice.

If you import a living pc from Origins, the current set up works well unless you chose Anora for Queen, They should have either allowed Anora to be queen and fill the same role as Alistair in this situation, or gave a brief explanation for why Anora is not queen anymore.

If you start a fresh Orlesian warden, you should start off with a generic background set by Bioware, allowing a fresh start or new people to get into the game.

But there should be the option to play an orlesian warden with your old pc's choices referenced.

Modifié par Thibbledorf26, 22 mars 2010 - 03:38 .

[Realmzmaster]

Actually what Bioware should have done is make everyone be the new warden commander from Orlais and not worry about importing any old character. But then more gamers would be up in arms.



Or Bioware could have withheld the expansion for six months to a year incorporating all the storyline choices from Origins and have everyone demanding when the expansion for Origins is coming out.

Maybe they should have just scraped the whole expansion idea and simply worked on DA2.

I would have went with the warden commander from Orlais and let everyone complain about not allowing their old character. That way everyone could be equally pissed off or not.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Jagrevi wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

Ah, you are referring to importing your 'dead' warden, while I was talking about the Orlesian story

I was actually talking about both.

Let me clarify.

Myself, and everyone else I know who plays Bioware games, with the exception of some people on this forum apparently, do so in the following way.

They play through the game once until they get to the end. (We do have other things to do besides play the same enormous game 12 times) For example, when they beat "Mass Effect 1", the story they beat the game with was "The Mass Effect Story So Far". Similarly, when they beat Dragon Age, that was "The Dragon Age Story So Far". The story they got when they played through the game has already been established for them, just as much as the story of any Dragon Age books they read through as well.

The problem is not that there is the ability for people to continuing playing Dragon Age who don't mind throwing the story out the window, the problem is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to continue the story for some people, through any option.

Meaning, if you care about story, then for some people - there is no more Dragon Age. The death of that one character was the end not just of their story, but the end of THE story. It can't continue. You know that epic tale you created and poured your heart into playing? IT'S DEAD. Everyone else BESIDES you can continue their stories - but YOURS doesn't pass muster. If you want to keep playing Dragon Age, please erase and forget that thing you poured time into and means so much to you, and try again.

That story you loved and put so much time into, that you've already established, that you've even expanded the tale of with the books, and so forth ...

Bioware now says - "No, it didn't happen that way, you didn't make the choice that you did.' If you want to keep playing, you need to throw your story in the garbage and try again to do it 'the right way'."

For game about living a story and making meaningful decisions, it's the biggest bull**** move Bioware could have made.

First off, you are not in a position to say how people, who don't even post on these forums, and know nothing about you or your issues, play Bioware games. Neither am I or anyone else for that matter.

Second, the game is designed and advertised to be played more than once.  If you choose not to, that's not Biowares problem.

Aside from that, I'm not sure what I said is much different from your complaint. maybe reread my posts on this page?

Basically there are the following Scenarios:

1)  Import a character who did not do the US ending.

Check, handled by Bioware.

2) Start a brand new character with his/her own backstory.

Check, Orlesian warden. This option is provided by almost every expansion or sequal ever made by every company. This has nothing to do with your US ending

3) Continue with US ending character, allowing you to PLAY THAT CHARACTER.

Check. You can import a save and continue playing your character, regardless of the US ending.

4) Start a new character but import choices made from a US ending character.

Fail.. Not handled. Possibly not even considered as far as we know.

Should it have been? Sure? What happened? Dunno. We'll probably never know. Maybe the bigwigs didn't think this option was popular enough to spend time developing it. maybe the designers misunderstood what people wanted and therefore created option 3 (US import). 

Maybe it never ocurred to them that this was even an issue.

Don't get the idea that I'm trying to defend Bioware here. I'm not. I agree that the option that you and others are wanting would have beena  good idea.  I just think that you are overstating the situation here.

Finally, the sad fact is, it's too late for them to do anything about it without a major hassle (read money), so it will probably never get changed.

In development the time for changes is in design. A month before shipping is too late, never mind after release.

[Lycidas]

Hm...strange. If I would be a person that played the game (DA:O) with only one warden and I knew I would like its story to continue I think I would not let him die...I just can not blame BioWare for not getting the idea that some might want to continue the story of their dead warden with a new one.

For me the story of my US warden was over when he died and I knew I would not want (or did not even expect to be able) to import her into any other game so I deleted the save files. Had a tear in my eyes tho.

[Agent.0.Fortune]

Lycidas wrote...
Hm...strange. If I would be a person that played the game (DA:O) with only one warden and I knew I would like its story to continue I think I would not let him die...I just can not blame BioWare for not getting the idea that some might want to continue the story of their dead warden with a new one.
For me the story of my US warden was over when he died and I knew I would not want (or did not even expect to be able) to import her into any other game so I deleted the save files. Had a tear in my eyes tho.

And when Bioware promised that your character could be imported to DAA, the expectation was that they had a plan, unfortunately the plan was to drop a duece in the cereal bowl and call it cornflakes.

They ended up  pissing off of a small chunck of their customer base. Most of which will be less likely to pre-order, or even purchase future games (or DLC) without a favorable review. And that is just the people they screwed, not counting the people who actaully played this game and disliked it. 

Brand loyalty is huge, unless they think the gaming market is made of money and time, they better get their act together because there are a lot of other good games (sequels) that are much more concerned with customer loyalty. (or maybe i'm completely off base, thinking bioware is the toyota of video games).

Anyway hope they enjoy my $40, next time they have to earn it.

Modifié par Agent.0.Fortune, 24 mars 2010 - 03:11 .

[Lenin]

I'll buy it new, but not until it's $20 or less. I'm sure it will happen on Steam eventually.



Everything I have read has told me that while yes, the game is probably pretty damn good, there are just too many problems/bugs/whatever for it to be worth the $40 price tag. I have read the good and the bad and decided that there's no way this expansion has the polish it should've had. DAO itself was not perfect, and the way the game made a lot of your decisions irrelevant towards the end did suck donkey balls.



In fact, I don't even think Origins was worth more than $40.

[cynicalsaint1]

What I would like to know is why everyone assumes the US remaining dead import would be easy for Bioware to have done, and essentially have no cost. Unless you know exactly how the import process works from a technical standpoint, you're in no position to say things like "it would have just taken them 2min to do"

Being a software developer myself, I can say that things are never that easy, and that unless you know exactly whats going on under the hood you're in no place to judge how difficult it may or may not be to to accomplish something. I've had plenty of projects where I was unable to add all the various features I would have liked to simply because I had a deadline, so instead of worrying about some of the bells and whistles I focused on the core features that I knew I had to have.

And before you start with "I would have been happy to wait ... ", that's not how it works in the real world. Time spent on development isn't free, it costs money. You end up having to determine how much time you can afford to spend developing features like character imports with how much you're spending on things like voice acting--and this is just a huge simplification of things.

I can't really do more than speculate what about what went into the desicion to make character imports that work the way they do, but I seriously doubt that its near as simple as everyone seems to want to make it out to be. At the end of the day this is a piece of software that was developed under a set of constraints, and that means you're never going to be able to do everything, and you're never going to be able to make everyone happy.

If you really want to get around issues like this, get a tabletop game going with some friends, because that's the only way you're going to be able to choose exactly how you want your various character's stories to playout. Its simply not possible in a videogame like Dragon Age.

[AlanC9]

Jagrevi wrote...
Myself, and everyone else I know who plays Bioware games, with the exception of some people on this forum apparently, do so in the following way.

They play through the game once until they get to the end. (We do have other things to do besides play the same enormous game 12 times) For example, when they beat "Mass Effect 1", the story they beat the game with was "The Mass Effect Story So Far". Similarly, when they beat Dragon Age, that was "The Dragon Age Story So Far". The story they got when they played through the game has already been established for them, just as much as the story of any Dragon Age books they read through as well.

I wonder what percentage of players do this. I don't know, and you don't, but Bioware does -- they're collecting characters and gameplay info for a reason.

It might very well be that people like you are in such a minority that Bio isn't particularly concerned about them. If 95% of players are going to have at least one Warden who didn't US, supporting the US ending isn't a big deal.

[AlanC9]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

What I would like to know is why everyone assumes the US remaining dead import would be easy for Bioware to have done, and essentially have no cost. Unless you know exactly how the import process works from a technical standpoint, you're in no position to say things like "it would have just taken them 2min to do"

The import process can't be any worse for a dead Warden than for a live Warden. The question is what you do with the data once you've got it.

As for how easy it would be to support the US ending, if it's easy someone will mod it in soon. Awakenings isn't going to be any harder to mod than DAO itself.

[Mr.DriftingDreamer]

Just a question, but would it have been difficult for BioWare to say, I don't know, do a Imported Warden: Check - Dead; if Dead then Import Warden = Orlisian Warden (with skills of Imported Warden)

I understand I'm not a programer but you get the idea.....I hope